Prop Hate

Amidst all of the excitement, enthusiasm and hope at the election of Barack Obama and all that it says about our progress as a nation and a people, some things happened on Tuesday that should remind us of how far we still have to go, as measures that would deny the basic rights of American citizens passed in several states.

In California it's called Prop 8 and it provides a constitutional amendment banning gay men and women from marrying, a right that already existed and is now going to be cruelly, intolerably and unnecessarily taken away. How anyone could vote for such abject discrimination is beyond my comprehension.

I watched on my television as the Prop 8 supporters -- the ones who creepily spent their time and money restricting the rights of their fellow citizens -- cheered and hugged each other at their victory party. Victory over what? How are their lives changed? If these revelers were married before the proposition passed, I assume they are still married. If they weren't married, I assume they'll still have just as much trouble finding love for their loveless hearts. So what did they gain?

The dirty secret among these people is that their precious definition of marriage, as that which occurs between a man and a woman, doesn't actually strengthen a single union. The only thing it does is marginalize, ostracize and villainize human beings whose only crime is that they want to be treated equally in a country that declares for its citizens that very equality in its founding document.

It's easy for many of us to simply move on now because it doesn't affect us. Well, I don't want to move on, because this law that aims to define marriage doesn't have anything to do with marriage at all. This law actually and only aims to define some of us as something less than the rest of us. And that kind of law diminishes everyone.

Comments

[blasofsky]

A close friend and I recently started a grassroots site www.OurVoicesForMarriage.comm) as a response to Proposition 8 passing. It is a VERY basic, no-frills site that allows individuals to voice their sadness, their frustration, and, most importantly, their personal stories on how the passing of Proposition 8 effected them. Our hope is that President-Elect Obama will soon announce a GLBT liaison whom we can refer to this site, and, who in turn, will refer President Obama to it with the hope he will speak out and say, loud and clear, that discrimination written into any constitution is a violation of everyone's civil rights.

PLEASE take a moment, go to the site, and post YOUR story. The more voices we have the louder our message will be. . .

www.OurVoicesForMarriage.com

Thanks!

Brian Lasofsky

[BSERIUS]

Hey, it was not the Mormons, it was not James Dobson, it was not the Catholics....It was 70 % African America saying YES to Prop 8.....African America is not the uberleft that Liberal Media and bloggers and Hollywood wants Obama to be......the AA community has morals and values and the right to vote AND this was overlooked by everyone on the left.

[ohioan73]

I think it boils sown to a "born vs bred" argument. If people agreed and acknowledged that gay people were born that way and had no choice in their sexuality the same as someone who is born a certain color, there would be more outrage over Prop 8. I'm straight and atheist. I was born both. I feel terrible about this.

[coco51]

I was so conflicted Tuesday night...would Obama and my son win? My son lost and so Obama's victory is bittersweet for me. America still has ways to go before it gives up the prejudices that stains our flag red.

[taddles]

No one has ever answered the question to me what marriage would ever be damaged by allowing all Americans to marry whom ever they wish.

All the fundies have ever said is that it will destroy traditional marriage or that they are supporting marriage. I ask, but receive no answer, how will this damage any hetro marriage now or ever? What are they defending marriage from?

Since they have no answer but bigotry and they are afraid to say it I again, as always, receive no answer.

[mercury613]

"No one has ever answered the question to me what marriage would ever be damaged by allowing all Americans to marry whom ever they wish."

That's because they *can't*.

[Purobi]

Can someone with legal knowledge please answer this question which I actually heard at NPR first: If the rights of minority can be decided by majority votes then isn't there a good probability that all rights of all minority groups will eventually disappear?

[mercury613]

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm

Read the section titled "Majority Rule and Minority Rights". It's something that Prop 8 proponents and the people who voted "yes" have either forgotten or never knew in the first place.

[metivo]

I've said it before and will say it again: this 'problem' is very easily solved.

Get Government out of the 'marriage' business. Keep it strictly separate as follows:

1. Any couple wishing to take advantage of the legal aspects of a union, will be required to get a CIVIL UNION document detailing the legal benefits and conditions. This will be the only means to join a couple legally. No definition will be required as to the sex or sexual orientation of the couple requesting a CIVIL UNION document.

2. Go to the church of choice to be MARRIED. There will always be churches who will acknowledge gay marriages and some who will not. Anyone requesting to be married should also have filed for a CIVIL UNION document.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

[johnqsittinzen]

NO PROPS TO PROPS. This issue infuriates me. Since I moved to and registered to vote in California in 2000, these ballots initiatives have slowly but steadily gone from raising my eyebrow to raising my ire. The success, or failure depending on your point of view, of PROP 8 is a perfect example of why I have gone from viewing these initiatives with skepticism to absolutely detesting them and believing that a change is an absolute must. We live in a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC for a reason and Prop 8 is exactly the reason we need qualified and principled representatives in our legislature and our judicial systems to wrestle with these complex issues and vote and rule ACCORDING TO THE LAW, not according to the emotional whim of the voter. I wonder how many California voters understood that this was not just a vote to say, "Yeah, I'm not comfortable with that whole gay marriage thing..." but an actual amendment to the Constitution of The State of California to deny supreme court recognized civil rights. Amendments to the state constitution should not be capriciously voted on by the masses whose only information is coming from the vile campaign season commercials and mailers that prey upon people's worst fears and prejudices. Money for these commercials was pouring in from outside interests to affect OUR STATE'S CONSTITUTION. There's not enough room here for me to rant in full on this, but this state initiative thing is what needs to be amended.

[OdaNobunaga]

You and I are in complete agreement. If they stay at all, they should require a 2/3 majority.

[Sunlark]

This issue most definitely will NOT go away. Our homosexual friends will indeed have their day! It will happen--provided those of us who believe in full equality for all citizens keep working for an increasingly free America. Even with the millions of dollars the LDS (Mormons) poured into this initiative (and there are more LDS in CA than in UT, by the way), the vote was narrow in California.

Recall the indignities heaped on suffragettes, just wanting the right to vote. Remember the racial segregation that was once the norm in our nation. The time will indeed come when ALL members of our society are treated with equality and respect . . . it's up to all of us to do our part to bring that to pass!

[terentz]

I don't care. I'm gay. I live in California -- and I don't care about Prop 8. All that matters to me, is that my partner is protected in the event of my death, he gets my assets, he makes decisions if for me if I'm ill or incapable, the property we jointly own is indeed jointly owned, and California law recognizes him as my spouse. Under our registered California domestic partnership, all of that is true -- he is exactly equal to a 'married' spouse in this state. And I saw to it long before we registered as domestic partners that he was protected with a WILL and POWERS OF ATTORNEY that are enforceable in 50 states. Yes, Prop 8 is horrible, bigoted, whatever -- but the same state rights granted to California married couples are granted to California registered domestic partnerships -- regardless of the passage of Prop 8. So, if you want to fight for 'marriage equality', go fight for it at the federal level, through federal domestic partnerships that extend federal marriage protections to state domestic partners, at the END of Obama's second term. (Not now -- if he even tries, we'll lose the White House and Congress in 2012.) Let the haters have the word 'marriage' -- fight for federal domestic partnerships in 2014. The only thing that really matters is the legal protections.

[rbryanh]

Why should straight people care about the right of gay people to marry?

First, to support the US Constitution, which does not admit the creation of second class citizens of any kind, for any purpose, under any circumstances. The "real" America exists wherever Americans support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Second, because to ride while others are forced to walk is immoral. If you sit in the front of the bus while others are forced to stand in the back and do nothing, you are cooperating in oppression, and culpable for your complicity. There is no America without equality.

While I wept with relief when Barack Obama won the presidency, I couldn't watch the Obamas embrace publicly without being painfully reminded that they enjoy a right his administration will not extend to me. His statement that "marriage is between a man and a woman" degrades the institution to the spiritual equivalent of a dirty whites-only restroom.

I am deeply moved - overjoyed - that American black children like the Obama's will now have opportunities previously denied them. Unfortunately, in declining to support full rights for all Americans, this administration has already sent a message to LGTB young people that they are second class citizens. This will result in the continuation of the terrifying suicide rate among such kids, and will encourage the daily violence and humiliation they suffer at the hands of their families and peers.

[moonseeker]

A better name for Prop 8 should be Prop God. Simply because Proposition 8 defends the law of God and the marriage system God has already set up, plain and simple. For all of the same-sex marriage proponents claims of wanting "equality" and "fairness" and "equal treatment", when did God ever give equal treatment to the devil. Their cries for equal rights and equal justice are nothing more than a covert attempt to pass a law to "legitimize" and "legalize" that which is immoral before God.

[drjay79]

God did not "set up" the marriage system, man did. It might be immoral to your God but not my God so what right do you have to dictate my behavior. You don't like same sex marriage don't marry someone of the same sex.

[CrisOmg]

Here are some other marriage systems God has already set up, plain and simple:

Levirate marriage - when a woman widows without bearing her husband a son, she is required to go to her brother in law and have a child with him. Onan was killed by God when he refused to do this with Tamar. Ruth also says it's a requirement and has a child with Boaz.

Rape victim marriage - "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and siezes her and lies with her, and they are not found" the man is required to pay the father of the victim 50 scheckles of silver to make her his wife, and they can't divorce.

There is also forcing a female slave to marry a male slave, and polygamy, too. (There are actually others...)

Assuming that you are a Christian, I suppose you are familiar with Mark 12:29-31. The two most important commandments, according to Christ, are love - of God and of one another.

Let God decide what is immoral before Him. You focus on following Christ's two most important commandments. Even as an atheist, I think it's a "sin" to follow one commandment (what I would call a moral obligation) to such an extreme that I break another.

[mercury613]

I don't believe in your god, nor do I believe in the devil.

And that settles the issue.

[BKLYNBROAD]

I am a 64 yr. "young", straight woman and I think the passage of Prop 8 is a disgusting trampling on the rights of American citizens. Gay people contribute to this society as much as anyone else. They work, pay taxes, etc. and should have the same rights as everyone else. I'm so sick and tired of organized religion telling people how to live their lives, i.e. whether or not to practice birth control, whether or not to have the right to choose and now who you can marry, especially when most of the clergy in this nation seem to be not only gay...but pedophiles. How dare they take away the rights that gay people have fought so hard for and finally won??? I am beyond livid!!!

[PlantGod72]

As the LDS (Mormon) Church was instrumental in funding and pushing for this dispicable legislation,
I called their administrative offices today, stating that I was calling for personal reasons regarding the church involvement with Prop 8 in California. The woman said that they had received a number of calls already, and put me through to James Arne(?) who took my call.

I told him in a conversation (mostly a monologue) that lasted 5 minutes or so why I felt the church should NOT have interferred with what is a FAMILY issue, and asked him how he felt about what he and his church had accomplished. Somewhat to my surprise, he responded that he had "mixed feelings" about the action as he has 2 gay members in his own family. I went on to explain (choking back my own emotion) how this will impact my life, how his church has conveniently changed its own ideologies in the past to suit mainstream society---i.e. polygamy, blacks in clergy, etc---and how dispicable it is to disrupt and destroy the families of others.

He was polite and gave me all the time I wanted. I don't know what impact a conversation like this has, but I had to do SOMETHING to let these people know their actions and prejudices affect REAL people, and REAL families. I suggest you do likewise!

LDS offices: 801-240-2205

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/contact-us

[jugglergal]

I just found out that Prop.8 has not been passed yet. I am dubious it will but California has not declared who won yet. They are still counting all the absentee ballots and all the provisional ones. They may not have a final count until December. Rumor has it they may have up to 4 million more ballots to count. Keep your fingers crossed maybe we still will beat down Bigotry one more time.
My personal wish is to beat this Prop. 8 with a no and laugh at all the money God told all those religious organizations, especially the Utah Mormans, spent and waisted! Keep praying my friends, We Can Do IT!