Now that the U.S. -- desperate to protect the Green Zone, and avoid a Saigon-style evacuation -- is actively bombing Sadr City, what is the difference between what the Americans are doing , and what the Israelis did in Qana during the '06 Lebanon war?
Above is Monday's photo of two-year-old Ali Hussein, pulled from the bombed rubble of his home, who died shortly after in the hospital. It's the shot which could have, would have and otherwise should have woken up all the sheep and cast a fiery and pin-pointed attention on the urban carnage inflicted on an overcrowded, poverty-stricken, urban Baghdad slum by U.S. fighter bombers.
So I ask, what is the difference -- in morality, shock effect and potential political fallout -- between the shot from Sadr City above, and the near-identical scene below that rocked the world, shamed the Israelis, and burned Qana into the world's consciousness ... besides the lack of media access and attention?
About a photo, about Iraq (Kansas City Star)
Several believed dead in US air raids in Baghdad (AFP)
For more of the visual, visit BAGnewsNotes.com.
(image 1: Karim Kadim/AP. April 29, 2008. Sadr City, Baghdad. via Kansas City Star. image 2: ©Tim Fadek. July 30, 2006. Qana, Lebanon. Used by permission. Please seek permission before re-use.)
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After Sept 11 there are two days on which I have been angrier than today. One was the start of this war and the other was the day that Hillary Clinton and John McCain shredded the constitution and voted away congressional authority to declare war.
A horrible picture - but the same picture could have been taken at Hiroshima, at Dresden, in the Philippines, Guernica, the Bombay riots of 1993, etc, etc., etc.
Innocents are forever victims. This war is wrong - but to select Israel and the US as villains is using the deaths of innocents to make political points. The war is wrong not because innocents are killed (they're killed in all wars) but because we invaded a sovereign nation on a lie, just because we wanted to - and now we've lost the way out.
Stop and think about what you just wrote. Then imagine that the baby in the picture was yours.
Would you feel "war is not wrong because innocents are killed (they're killed in all wars.")
Hell no. You would blame who ever launched the missile. And you would probably be be looking to avenge the killing of your child.
You are right to ascribe the killing to criminal policy decisions by the USA. But you are wrong to try and make the argument anything but personal.
The vast majority of the people fighting our troops in Iraq are doing it for very personal reasons.
I applaud our forces for their restraint, and I applaud the Israelis for theirs as well. The attacks, in both instances, could more rightly have been answered with overwhelming force. And, I for one wish it had been.
Semper fi
Some day I wonder if some restrained, applause- worthy military force will rip apart your kids, nieces, nephews, grandmas, grandpas, parents or any of the above.
Rightly answered with more overwhelming force? Well, good on ya' Semper Fi, we all know there's a right and wrong in every action but since the 'ole war is here anywhoo, why not make the best of it but show restraint where ya can, eh?
As a fellow human I feel for you, you need some love in your life. Even if you're point is well taken for any acedemic at any war-college, as a reaction to this photo piece, you're utterly lost
BTW
Any marines I served with knew the difference between baby killing and combat; soldiers prepare and train for combat; pogues and politico's do the baby killing because they don't have to take their fingers off the safety and do business.
Get some help, drop your guns and pick up a puppy.
Jesus weeps.
I am typing this with tears in my eyes. I am a 68 year old regular army vet and
I am typing this with tears in my eyes. I am a 68 year old regular army vet and I say damn them all. Damn every last one of the neo-con swine.
bumblebee
It is Americans like you that remind us that we should not generalise and judge ALL Americans by the work of a few . I Know half of the Americans did not vote for Bush that s a lot of Americans . we Love Americans like You . Bless you .
Relatedly, the administration still refuses to tag Muktada Al Sadr as "enemy." That is because, like others we have shot at or who have killed our fine troops, Sadr is on our payroll.
Another triumph for Bush. We are paying just about all factions, and find it difficult to "win."
Isn't this state sponsored terrorism? Shouldn't Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al spend the rest of their lives defending themselves as charged war criminals? And shouldn't they be sent to The Hague to face the World Court, just as Milosivic did?
If things are ever to be set right for America with the rest of the world in our lifetimes, there needs to be accountability. Don't expect the mainstream media to promote war crimes trials for American leaders. They're too busy vilifying Wright, Rep. Ron Paul, and others for saying that we brought world hatred upon ourselves with our foreign policy and American corporate colonialism around the world. And every mainstream politician has fell into line with this misinformation campaign.
So, it's something that Americans need to do for themselves, by talking to each other. And not with histrionics! And not with any pre-conceptions of who agrees by the traditional designations of right & left. People like Baker, Hamilton, and former national security advisor Scodroft (spelling?) are potential allies who are willing to talk to anyone, even our enemies. It isn't really such a big step from talking to people rationally to engaging them in meaningful negotiations, and then ultimately cutting a deal.
So, let's try to be inclusive in our comments! Let's broaden the dissatisfaction to include people who are upset for pragmatic reasons like competence and long-term hatred for America. And let's lay the groundwork to bring American war criminals to trial in our lifetimes.
Michael, I'm afraid there's just not enough "bling" there to get our attention. Now, if it was a hot lil blonde who might have been sexually abused, THERE'D be the shot! Can't we suggest poor little Ali have been sexually abused just before we bombed his shack? Then we could talk about it on all the news shows! Just takes a lil creativity when it comes to getting the press's attention (ahem)
Duh! Because Der Surge Is Working.
I know. It's appalling. It's worse than that. But if I go into how I honestly feel, then Huffington Post will not let my comment through. Because I've no civil words left for our vicious occupation and widespread apathy.
That's why we're heading towards an Air Force composed of just unmanned arial vehicles; less chance for a vagrant spark of morality to compromise a mission - just some zhlub in Arizona bombing people with one hand and jerking off with the other.
With a momentary Loss Of Control (LOC) when he switches hands.
No difference. Americans and Israelis are, by definition, Good; therefore, whatever slaughter they perpetrate is also Good.
"what is the difference between what the Americans are doing now, and what the Israelis did in Qana during the '06 Lebanon war?"
Everyone including the US wanted the Lebanon war to end, not immediately but in a short time after the bombing could accomplish enough destruction. The bombing had to be done in a compressed timetable. Iraq has no such schedule, so we can take our time and bomb for 100 years if that is what it takes for the mission to be accomplished.
Please please, American patriots please stand up speak up for what is done in our name is done by us ALL
So what? If we cared, we would be hearing about it on Sunday when we attend church. With the possible exception of a few black churches, this is an issue that we understand is best avoided. The bible tells us there will be wars and be not troubled, so we don't care. We put Bush in power, but we can't be held responsible for what he does.
We don't hear about this in churches because most preachers (the ones who aren't child molestors) are cowards and afraid to offend their congregations because that might mean a lighter collection plate on Sunday morning.
Terrorism in the name of freedom trumps terrorism in the name of resistance. Besides, haven't you heard? We're the 'good guys'.
This is just one more recruiting poster for Bin Laden. The more we kill the more they hate us. Unfortunately, George Bush can't seem to make the connection.
All Americans should hang their heads in shame today.
it's no wonder the rest of the world hates us...and who can blame them? i feel sick over the killing of innocent children, all the innocents. it's nothing short of murder.
Gawddamn America!
Jeremiah Wright for President!!!
Do you notice the similarity of what the US military does in Iraq, and what the IDF does in Gaza and the West Bank?? Both kill innocent civilians, and then try to hide behing the lie of "insurgents hiding among civilians". In both cases, the US and Israel caused the problem, yet when innocents die, the lies and spin start.
The insurgents aren't hiding behind civilians. Because of us, the citizens are BECOMING the insurgents. They're hiding in their own homes. Or, at least what's left of them.
the picture looks like the brave Iraq freedom fighers who hid between women and children.
Actually, it looks like the Army has the militiamen boxed into their own neighborhoods and won't wait until after the noncombatants evacuate before bombing/shelling them. Ahh... kinda makes me miss being a cog in the Green Machine.
Sadly, Bush/Cheney have ordered a war of annihilation against "insurgents" as the only way to accomplish their plan of conquest to "secure" Mideast oil.
Most Iraqis OPPOSE giving away their country"s oil rights, and OPPOSE the Bush/Maliki covenant which would allow PERMANENT US bases and occupation.
The US military is being used to try to BEAT THE MAJORITY OF THE IRAQI POPULATION INTO SUBMISSION.
It is not just Baghdad that is being bombarded:
"US forces backed by British artillery and American aircraft have attacked the Hayaniya district of Iraqi city of Basra, witnesses say.
...
Loud explosions were heard in the area which was bombed during the operation on Saturday, DPA reported.
...
Hayaniyah, a stronghold of supporters of anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, has seen
firefights since March 25 when Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki ordered a crackdown on
them in the southern port city.
...
Since then US warplanes have carried out several air strikes in the district targeting what
they call extremists. Scores of people including women and children have been killed. "
- 04-19-08
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=52265§ionid=351020201
Everyone who disagrees with the huffpos must:
1) Join the army.
2) Go to Irag.
3) Become a baby killer.
Since when are "liberals" offended by baby killers? Isn't the pro-infanticide crowd one of your constituency groups?
When will people finally come to understand the nature of our military. They AREN'T HEROES. They're babykillers who use standoff weapons to kill women and children because they don't want to go nose-to-nose with their opponents. The VC and NVA knew the best way to fight a GI was to first grab him by his belt buckle. Our troops AREN'T HEROES - they're murderers.
It is totally unfair to blame the troops for the actions of their leaders.
The people in the field are not responsible. They have to follow orders. They have taken an oath.
Lincoln said " Why must I shoot the simple minded soldier who deserts while I must not touch the hair of the wiley agitator who convinces him to desert?'
Our soldiers are not simple minded. But they should not be blamed for the mistakes and crimes of their leaders.
You wrote: "It is totally unfair to blame the troops for the actions of their leaders.
The people in the field are not responsible. They have to follow orders. They have taken an oath." To defend the Constitution of the United States of America. I took that oath in 1966, so I know how it goes. And the idea of killing innocent women and children wasn't part of the deal. Oh, and by the way, THE NAZIS USED THE SAME ARGUMENT AT THEIR WAR TRIALS! I wonder how soon our BABYKILLERS will be in the dock?
Aside from the tactical argument, that in order to end the war and bring the criminal leaders to justice it is a bad idea to make enemies of the foot soldiers, the people in the field are just not responsible.
The Nazi analogy is just not accurate. Not at this point.
The goal is to get the soldier out of there. And to somehow, and I don't begin to know the answer, get peace and order back to Iraq. Those people don't deserve the catastrophe they are experiencing.
I understand your frustration. And I believe the leaders, who got us into this unholy mess deserve to stand trial for their criminal actions.
I just don't believe it is the soldiers and sailors in uniform who are responsible.
P.S. The Corporate Media should be in the docket as well.
PPS The foot soldiers of Germany were not held responsible at Nuremberg. Only the leaders.
And the individual soldiers were held responsible where there was proof of crimes committed.
40 yrs ago, the heroes were NOT the John McCains of the world, who went to Vietnam. The heroes were those young Americans who stood up to DEFY the lies of Johnson & Nixon, just as despicable & obvious as the lies of Bush & Cheney are now. America's military commits atrocities to pacify entire countries and to further the infinitely greedy imperialist designs of our corporate economy. Remember David Harris, Joan Baez's husband? He & others heroically allowed themselves to be tried in federal court, for defying the Draft. The American people learned NOTHING from the Vietnam War disaster. We're blinded by flag-waving phoney baloney patriotism, so we ignore the true nature of our government's rapacious foreign policy. Every young person has a moral responsibilty to know exactly what he will be doing ("uh, tell me again who I'm supposed to kill, and WHY") before he signs the oath and puts on the uniform. mountainMUSL@aol.com
Nothing like a bit of truth in the middle of all the comments. Thanks for reminding us.
I sure wish I could you send to the field with them for a couple months.
Educate yourself, know what lies in the heart of a warrior.
http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
They might not be in Iraq defending your freedom directly, but if the fight was in our streets you'd be begging them to stand guard at your door. I hope one day ignorant people like yourself will quit threatening to leave the US and just go.
USAF 1966 - 1970, Stationed in Vietnam 6 Jan 60 to 7 Jan 70 with the 4th SOS. Been there, done that. Save your lecture for someone who gives a damn. BTW, interested in posting your DD-214?
Warriors who can define HONOR do not kill civilians. As for guarding my door, I will do that with my Indep G-3 (semiauto). As an aside, I would not even step on a chickenhawk warmonger NeoCon, even if I was wearing the boots I wore in Vietnam (69-70) as a volunteer, for fear of disease.
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Posted May 1, 2008 | 12:55 AM (EST)