A Conversation with Brian Wilson
Mike Ragogna: Brian how are you doing?
Brian Wilson: I'm good, what's up with you?
MR: Right now, I'm about to do an interview that I've been looking forward to for quite a while now!
BW: Well, let's go ahead with the interview.
MR: (laughs) Thanks. Brian, what was your vision with Smile?
BW: Early Americana, trying to capture the feeling of Americana and old days.
MR: What was the collaboration like between you and co-writer Van Dyke Parks?
BW: It was a thrill because he was very much a genius lyricist.
MR: Did you find that your minds melded as far as how you looked at the world?
BW: Not really, no.
MR: Well, that's sometimes the best way isn't it.
MR: I wanted to clear up the myths about Smile. Nobody seems to have the definitive answer as to how Smile got shelved.
BW: We were taking a lot of psychedelic drugs, like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones, so it got us very into the music to the point where we got lost in it. We said that we better shelve this because it's getting too heavy.
MR: As you were getting into the album and as you were recording it, did you realize that you had a really cool project?
BW: Well, yeah, we kept asking each other, "Where the heck is this at?"
MR: When you were finished with the follow up Smiley Smile, did you ever consider going back to Smile?
BW: Nope, never did, not until 2004.
MR: Yes, everybody loved that record, Brian Wilson Presents Smile. What made you decide to put Smile out in that format?
BW: My wife, my publicist, and I got together for a meeting one day. They said, "We got you here because we think it's time for people to hear Smile." I couldn't believe it, I said, "My God, I completely forgot about Smile." We did it, we learned it, and we created a whole piece of work.
MR: I wanted to ask you about Smile in the context of the songs on there. For instance the song "Vegetables." Did you know some people refer to that being one of their favorite Beach Boys songs.
BW: Really? I didn't know that.
MR: There was stuff that was even created as snippets that have developed into being some of the great Beach Boys songs.
BW: Right, exactly.
MR: When you were putting together your Smile, as you pictured it in your head, did you have an idea of how it was working song to song?
BW: That was up to my wife and my engineer, they helped me sequence it and make it make sense. We took a couple of months of hard work to get that together.
MR: When you look at that classic batch of songs, are there any that really jump out at you as great songs?
BW: Yeah, "Heroes And Villains." That's the one I like the most.
MR: You co-wrote that with Van Dyke, right?
MR: The original Smile is being released in a few different configurations, and obviously, there needed to be some research to put this all together. Were you a part of that process?
BW: Not so much, no.
MR: It was Mark Linett and Alan Boyd, your main guys who have been with you for a long time right?
MR: So have you sat down and listened to that Smile yet?
MR: What do you think?
BW: I thought it was a positive move.
MR: Listening to it all these years later, did you have a different take on it this time when you listened?
BW: Well yeah, we were on drugs then. That's why it blew my mind. It was so new to me.
MR: Okay, let's get to your new Disney album, In The Key Of Disney, and start with the track list. For instance, you do that great Randy Newman song, "You've Got A Friend In Me." I'd love to go down this list and see what you think of these songs here.
BW: Alright, go ahead.
MR: What about "You've Got A Friend In Me?"
BW: It's an absolute work of art, I love this song. It had a good rock 'n' roll spirit, and the lyrics were absolutely fantastic.
MR: You're familiar with Randy Newman's material, right?
MR: I imagine you guys have crossed paths over the years.
BW: We've crossed paths, but very briefly.
MR: So, you record songs like "The Bare Necessities." How did you come up with the tracks on In The Key Of Disney?
BW: Well, they sent us 15 songs, and we chose 12 out of the 15.
MR: Personally, I love track like "When You Wish Upon A Star."
BW: That was one of my favorites when I was a kid.
MR: This seems to be a cross between a new Brian Wilson album and a "kids" album.
BW: Hey! That's a good idea!
MR: (laughs) Thanks. Brian, every couple of years you're putting out something new, what is your creative process like these days?
BW: The last couple of weeks, I've been having a creative explosion again for the first time in five or six years. I'm really into the music. I recorded 6 or 7 songs with Joe Thomas my producer. My God, it's great.
MR: Does it have a central theme?
BW: No theme, each one is different.
MR: Are you co-writing with others?
BW: Yeah, I'm co-writing with Joe.
MR: You have these concepts of what a project could be, so do you have anything that you're thinking of right now?
BW: No, but I have a song called "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue," which is a great title. We recorded it last week and it really turned out good.
MR: I'm wondering if there were any guests on there like when you had Matthew Sweet on Brian Wilson Presents Smile.
BW: No, just my regular band.
MR: Are you going to be touring to support In The Key Of Disney?
BW: Yeah, probably next year.
MR: Has it been tempting to further revisit Smile?
BW: Probably not, no.
MR: And there already was your CD and DVD releases, so I guess that's the statement right?
MR: What advice do you have for new artists?
BW: Well if you're going to write a song, try to get together with a collaborator because it's better to write with collaborators.
MR: Is that for the creative process?
MR: Do you feel when you write with somebody, is there a synergy going on?
BW: Yeah, bounce back and forth.
MR: Let's say you write a song with whomever, and you get into the studio, do you try to keep the vision in your head when you're recording or does it evolve into something else?
BW: It evolves into something else.
MR: Have you been surprised by some of the ways things have evolved?
BW: Yeah, did you hear a song called "Stay Awake?"
MR: Yeah, from In The Key Of Disney.
BW: Isn't that a beautiful tune?
MR: Yeah, it sure is.
BW: That's the most beautiful tune I've ever heard.
MR: I would love to ask you a question that I ask a lot of people. You're Brian Wilson in 2011 and you've had an amazing career. When you look back at your career, are you impressed?
BW: Yeah...well, proud too. I feel very proud, and it's mind boggling to think about how much I actually wrote.
MR: And how much Beach Boys music has become such a large part of the culture.
BW: Right. I think the people of America and the people of London really appreciate our stuff.
MR: And when you turn on a pop radio station, you're guaranteed to hear a Beach Boys song eventually.
MR: Brian, I appreciate your time very much.
BW: Thank you for the great interview.
1. Our Prayer
3. Heroes And Villains
4. Do You Like Worms (Roll Plymouth Rock)
5. I'm In Great Shape
7. My Only Sunshine (The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine)
8. Cabin Essence
10. Look (Song For Children)
11. Child Is Father Of The Man
12. Surf's Up
13. I Wanna Be Around / Workshop
16. Wind Chimes
17. The Elements: Fire (Mrs. O'Leary's Cow)
18. Love To Say Dada
19. Good Vibrations
20. You're Welcome
21. Heroes And Villains (Stereo Mix)
22. Heroes And Villains Sections (Stereo Mix)
23. Vega-Tables (Demo)
24. He Gives Speeches
25. Smile Backing Vocals Montage
26. Surf's Up 1967 (Solo Version)
27. Psycodelic Sounds: Brian Falls Into A Piano
1. Our Prayer (Dialog)
2. Heroes And Villains: Part 1
3. Heroes And Villains: Part 2
4. Heroes And Villains: Children Were Raised
5. Heroes And Villains: Prelude To Fade
6. My Only Sunshine (Parts 1 & 2)
7. Cabin Essence (Session Highlights and Stereo Backing Track)
8. Surf's Up (1st Movement)
9. Surf's Up: Piano Demo (Master Take)
10. Vegetables: Fade
11. The Elements: Fire
12. Cool, Cool Water (Version 2)
13. Good Vibrations: Session Highlights
Transcribed By Theo Shier
BOYZ II MEN - TWENTY
You know the song, sing along...
Multi-Platinum selling Grammy Award winners, Boyz II Men, are bringing R&B back with their with their new double album, Twenty, which debuted in--of course--the Top 20 on the Billboard Top 200 and at #4 on the Top R&B Album chart. The October 24th release marked Boyz II Men's 20th anniversary of making music together and they unveiled their first new material in nearly ten years. Twenty features 13 brand new songs including the current radio single "More Than You'll Ever Know" with Charlie Wilson, "One Up For Love," plus updated versions of their classics including "End Of The Road," "I'll Make Love To You," and "Motownphilly."
In celebration of their anniversary and the release of Twenty, Wanya Morris, Nathan Morris and Shawn Stockman were joined by their families and friends at Disney World. In these exclusive video, the guys share the experience with their fans with an inside look at the festivities and personally thank them for their support throughout the years.
FYI, Twenty is available now, and you get the 2-CD variant exclusively at Wal-Mart or download the 21-track album at iTunes. Smooth.
The Scoop: "To coincide with Andy Warhol's birthday (August 6th), Legacy Recordings will release the most ambitious multi-artist, multimedia project upon which it has ever embarked. 15 Minutes: Homage To Andy Warhol--created with the full approval of The Andy Warhol Foundation For The Visual Arts--is headlined by Columbia Records artists Bob Dylan and Patti Smith, and 16 other world-renowned fine artists, poets, painters, photographers, actors, and musicians. 'In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes,' Andy Warhol famously said in 1968.
"15 Minutes... is certain to be the most talked-about project of this fall's box set season. It will gather silkscreen prints and original recordings, created by 18 of the most prominent artists who were associated with or have been influenced by Andy Warhol. In addition to Bob Dylan and Patti Smith, there will be contributions from (in alphabetical order): Yura Adams, Connie Beckley, Brigid Berlin, Susan Breen, Nat Finkelstein Vincent Fre¬mont, John Giorno, Jeff Gordon, Alexander Heinrici, Ivan Karp, Christopher Makos, Billy Name, Carter Ratcliff, Path Soong, Ultra Violet, and Lawrence Weiner." For more information, here's the website: fifteenminutesonline.com
A Conversation with Ultra Violet aka Isabelle Dufresne
Mike Ragogna: Ultra Violet, we have a lot to talk about including your time with Andy Warhol, the subject of 15 Minutes: Homage To Andy Warhol that was just released as a box set. Isabelle, welcome to your interview!
Ultra Violet: Thank you, thank you.
MR: I have to confess that when I saw your name on the list of possible interviewees, I said, "That's the one--Ultra Violet."
UV: Thank you, thank you. But why? Why did you pick me?
MR: I did my homework, and I think you're fascinating. Isabelle, let's go back to your years with Andy Warhol.
UV: First of all, how do you know I'm fascinating? But, never mind. I wrote a book titled Famous For 15 Minutes: My Years With Andy Warhol. It was published in 17 languages and someone just wrote an opera based on my book. But anyway, in my book I say that I came from France on a boat in 1955. The first person I met when I came off the boat was Salvador Dali, which was pretty fascinating. One day, in 1963, he introduced me to the person. At first, I thought it was a woman, actually, because her hair was truly uneven--long, short, black, white, whatever. And then eventually, Dali said, "This is Andy Warhol." So, I said, "Oh!" I did not know him, and he was obviously not famous in 1963. But immediately, I was quite fascinated about this little character, which I call an "ultra-terrestrial." He said to me, "You're so beautiful. Let's do a movie together." I said, "Fine, when?" He said, "Tomorrow." I said, "Fine." So, the next day, I went to The Factory and that's how everything started with Andy Warhol.
MR: What was the first adventure you had with him film-wise?
UV: Film-wise, it was The 24-Hour Movie, which was shot for 24 hours. And then, Bathroom, The Life Of Juanita Castro, and then I, A Man. Maybe that was the most popular film of the ones I've done with Warhol.
MR: Which is one of the reasons why I think you're fascinating--you were one of the first to document what was going on in that era.
UV: Well, that's true.
MR: (laughs) What was your relationship with Andy like?
UV: Well, you know, the first two years, he had this extraordinary "silver" Factory, which became very legendary. The door was open, it was huge, and every wall was covered with silver, so it was like a gigantic mirror, and those super stars could look at themselves all day long. It was a very hedonistic era. We were making one movie a day, which was fun, and then at night, we would watch it on the sheets hanging between two pillars. Then, we would go to every single party we could, or even crash parties, and we would be the last ones to leave. The next day, we would see our picture in the newspaper, which was pretty surprising. I said to myself, "Wow, it's so easy to be famous, even though it's for no reason." But eventually, things changed. Now, I'm a very serious artist. I have a studio in Chelsea, I'm having shows around the world. I'm getting a show in Moscow in the spring, and I've done a lot of work based on 9/11. Have you seen the artwork for 15 Minutes, by the way?
MR: Yes, I have. It's...well, fascinating. (laughs)
UV: So, that work that I did for 15 Minutes? When I met Jeff Gordon, he said, "What work do you want to do?" I showed him my IXXI work, which is very graphic. It's a palindrome, and he said, "Wonderful." And actually, on 9/11, I think he was leaving downtown Manhattan and so he was very personally affected by 9/11. Anyway, I've done some large sculpture of IXXI and guess what? The chief curator of the 9/11 Memorial Museum--which is in construction and will open in one year--wants my sculpture to be in the museum and be part of the permanent collection. We found a donor that's buying the sculpture and will give it to the museum, so that's very, very exciting.
MR: Beautiful. What was the creative process for IXXI?
UV: Well, you know, I said, "I'm an American, I'm a New Yorker, and I'm an artist," and with those three elements combined, I had to do something about 9/11. I had to. An artist is someone that feels...feels maybe more than anybody else, and I know many people really suffered first hand. But I cry--I actually do a performance about 9/11 that I did not too long ago, and I cry. People said, "Why are you crying?" I said, "Well, I'm an artist and I'm sensitive." So, it took me a while to come up with the exact design that you have in the box. I've done many trials and errors--I've done probably 30 different works about 9/11. I recently had a show in New York at CUNY and I had about 25 works. They're doing a catalog with the trials and errors. But eventually, I have achieved a very graphic, noble, regal design using roman numerals.
MR: Where in New York is you art being exhibited?
UV: My studio is in Chelsea at 526 W 26th Street. Actually, I have a show currently on Wall Street of all places. The show is in the ex-headquarters of Chase Bank, and guess what? Wall Street is under siege, as you know, and because of this barricade, you can barely go to the show. There are a lot of police outside the entrance of the show. But that's another place to see my work.
MR: Is this your way of occupying Wall Street?
UV: Well, that's a very interesting story--that Occupy Wall Street. I understand the complaint of the 99 percent. Actually, I was just asked to do a work of the 99 percent, which I did. It's a mannequin, and on the mannequin I'm writing all kinds of slogans. One of them is "I am 1 percent smart," and it's signed, "Steve Jobs." The irony of it is that I bet most of those 99 percent, in their pocket, have an iPhone--or and iPad or a Mac at home. Yet somehow, as you know, since Steve Jobs died, he's being idolized, maybe for good reason, because he's an extraordinary artist. But it's very ambiguous, so on that mannequin, I have another phrase, which is, "99 percent sure = 100 percent unsure." And then I have, "In China, we are 99.9999999999 percent." This whole mannequin is covered with percentages. Then I have, "My brother is 13 percent unlucky." Maybe you can give me a phrase dealing somehow with percentage. One of them--the last one, is, "I love 100 percent of you." It's signed, "God." What would be your phrase dealing with percent? I'd like to hear it.
MR: Let's see--something in honor of Occupy Wall Street. "A percentage of us know the truth."
UV: Oh, I see.
MR: Maybe there's something better, let's keep going. "Percentages are in the eye of the beholder."
UV: Oh yeah, that's a good idea. That's a good idea.
MR: Thanks Isabelle, I'm flattered! Now, your start was in performance art and making films with the Andy Warhol troupe. Wouldn't you also say that the way you handled yourselves at those parties in those days was also performance art?
UV: Oh, absolutely. We were the first people to ever do performance art in the '60s.
MR: Do you feel that there's an element of performance art going on with Occupy Wall Street as well?
UV: Well, probably. I spoke to a lot of those people, and what's interesting is that they say and will keep saying, "I was in Wall Street." It's like they've been there or were part of something. People have to belong. We all have to belong to someone, to something; we live in a very secular era and people therefore have to worship something. Formerly, we were worshipping God, although the majority is not now. But by being in that troupe or group of 99 percent, they belong to something. It's actually nice, because you need a network. You need support. If you're all alone, you can't make it. What's very interesting is that looking at world history, as you know, we've had many revolutions--especially in The Middle East. Those were of quite a different nature as they were against oppressive government, or oppressive or misunderstood religion. But now, this is coming to America, meaning we have our own revolution, and it's more of a capitalist revolution, possibly.
MR: And although I don't like bringing this up, do you feel that that also ties in with the Tea Party, as that is allegedly an expression of revolution?
UV: Well, they are revolting against something very different from the 99 percent.
MR: That's a good point. It seems most people don't even realize that.
UV: They're actually revolting about the opposite of the 99 percent. Those people maybe would be at the opposite end of the 99 percent, I think. Did you watch, by the way, the Republican debate the other night?
MR: No, those debates give me the creeps with all of that anti-progressive rhetoric.
UV: (laughs) It was pretty interesting. We have to be informed. The point is that we have to be informed.
MR: Yes, I know, you're right. But I also have to keep down my dinner. Okay, since we're on the subject, how do you feel about the current administration?
UV: I think nobody's perfect. I watched the other day the celebration of Martin Luther King's statue. Did you watch that?
MR: Yes, I did watch that.
UV: There were a lot of people speaking, and most of them were really preaching, I think. They spoke in a "preaching mode," which is a wonderful, very powerful way of speaking. I was thinking next time I give a press conference, I'm going to rehearse and I would like to speak in a "preacher mode." Anyway, all of this is to say that Obama has been elected because he's an orator and he's very seductive when he speaks--especially when he was campaigning. Now, I think he's lost some of it, but I think he was elected on that ground. Speech has power. Now, that doesn't mean that he's really a failure. It's so hard to say, because the poor thing inherited an era that's quite problematic and it's not one man that can resolve everything. I mean, you have the lobbying, Washington, and so many things against you. I'm not sure I'm going to vote for him again--that's all I can say. But I will watch the Democrats and the Republicans as they campaign, and I will vote for the person that I feel I like most, whoever has the best brain or whatever.
MR: It does seem like it's a period where people are truly starting to get fed up. Do you think this period, what with the Occupy Wall Street concept, is just a temporary burst of expression that will go away because people will go back to watching American Idol or something?
UV: Oh, I don't think so, because as you probably know, Occupy Wall Street is happening in 80 countries around the world. That's unbelievable. It's a global movement. Nothing is perfect, but the people want to have a voice and they really don't have a voice--or did not have a voice. They should be represented somewhere. So, I think it's not about to go away. Of course, the winter will be coming, so they'll have to find some kind of shelter. But, I think it's far from being resolved.
MR: It's amazing that when the movement grew from 2,000 to 20,000 people, that was finally when the networks decided they would report it.
UV: Right, right. It's around the world...the movement. It's pretty interesting. I don't know how you feel--maybe I'm wrong--but it seems to me that maybe half of the unemployed do not want to work. I'm sure the other half really would like to work, but there are no jobs. And it's not the government that has to create jobs, it's private enterprises. The government should be small; the government is invading everything. Why do we have aid to foreign countries? We need aid right here. That's what the Republicans said the other day. They said some sound things. Why should we finance a United Nations? Why do we give money to Germany or Israel or around the world? Why, why? This is what we need here.
MR: Well, I'm only speaking personally, but I think it's more complicated than that, and basically, I'm for the little guy. It seems that the little guy is not going to be represented by a party that is aligning itself with the wealthiest one percent of one percent of the country.
UV: Yeah, but bear in mind that Mr. Buffett proposed that there should be a tax on millionaires. What do you make of that?
MR: I think it's brilliant, it's, well, about what we discussed earlier--percentages. And aren't you sick of the rhetoric bandied about during election seasons that play to baser aspects of our culture than anything higher?
UV: But you see, everything has to be reformed. For instance, unemployment. I don't believe people should get a check in the mail or go and pick up a check and not work. I think every state should own some farmland. If you're unemployed, you should go to the farm. You're going to be fed, you're going to have a shelter, you're going to work, work, work, and be paid. And you can stay there as long as you want, and when you have enough money in your pocket that you earn--which is good for the morale also--you go back to the world and you start all over again. In France, they even mail you the check, so people stay home, smoke cigarettes, drink beer, and they wait for the check to come in. This is absurd! It's totally immoral.
MR: I know there are fundamental problems, but with all due respect, I don't think work farms are the answer. We need roads to be fixed, things like that. I agree with the point that perhaps we need initiatives in the government to employ people for things that are needed, and no, we're not doing that.
UV: You're right--but the farms are much better. Why? Because you live there. You're not going to live on the road. Yes, we need roads, but then where do you live? You go to the farm, you have shelter, you're fed, it's a community, and you work on the land. With the road, where are you going to sleep if you have no home?
MR: Personally, I have a problem with the whole concept and the imagery of the populace relegated to work farms. It seems pretty Dickensian.
UV: Well, on the farm you could be on the computer or you could be carrying boxes or whatever. There are so many other things to do. We need farmland. We've suppressed many of them. Anyway, that's another issue.
MR: Isabelle, speaking of farms, we're a mess when it comes to GMOs, and we're in danger of losing the integrity of our crops now that we genetically alter everything.
UV: I know--people are not genetically modified. You know, the problem with genetic modification--I don't know if you know that I'm a great nutritionist--is that when you eat something that's genetically modified, guess what? It doesn't stop right there. It starts to genetically modify you. It's alive somehow, and it's so powerful that it's modifying you. That's a crime. It's a crime against humanity.
MR: It's a boon for technology, but it's a loss for organics. It doesn't seem like we're able to make progress without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
UV: Well, you know, people don't want to follow or study the scripture. In the scriptures, it says that the Earth has to rest every seven years, and then the Earth is replenished and produces a lot. But they don't do that. They just exhaust the Earth. They give it pesticides and this and that, and the Earth is exhausted. The whole thing has to be reformed, and that's why, in a way, that 99 percent is good because they're complaining and are opposed to whatever is wrong. The whole world is wrong.
MR: Isabelle, this is one of my favorite interviews--conversations, even--I've ever had with an artist, thank you being this "fascinating." (laughs) Now, what do you think Andy would be saying looking at what's going on in the culture these days?
UV: Oh, Andy loves power, and he would be running for the President of the United States. I don't know which party, though. (laughs)
MR: He'd be drawing his own posters. (laughs)
MR: What do you think of his artwork over the years? How does it affect you?
UV: Well, I think he was a luminary. Pop Art started in England and then came to the US, and there were many pop artists, but Andy was unique in that he represented pages of American history--JFK's assassination, the first man on the moon, Marilyn Monroe, pages of American history. And the American dream--the flower, the dollar sign, the prosperity. Even Campbell's Canned Soup is a sign of prosperity, that we shall never be hungry, and the housewife can serve an instant dinner using an electrical can opener and her hands are perfectly manicured and she doesn't have to cry over the potatoes and the onions or whatever. It's the American dream. But what's great about Warhol is that he represents also the reversal of the dream--the disaster series. And what is that? Nuclear mushrooms, car crashes, electric chairs, suicide, most wanted men--you name it. It's the Yin and the Yang of American culture. But Warhol's greatness doesn't even stop there. We have to look at the work he was doing the two last years before he died. Those were actually spiritual works--Madonnas, words from the scriptures, The Last Supper, crosses. His message is that it's not the American dream, nor the reversal, but it's that we are spiritual beings with a body, and that's what matters.
MR: Beautifully said. You're an artist with words as well. I always felt that not only was he documenting American history and pop culture, but he was also supplying commentary on simultaneously.
UV: Yes, absolutely.
MR: A brilliant man. When I visited to Pittsburgh, I visited The Andy Warhol Museum, and boy was that an enlightening experience. It almost felt like being in The Factory.
UV: (laughs) Yes, it's a wonderful place.
MR: Now, there was a point where you moved on to do your own thing. What motivated you to go out on your own?
UV: You know, I have to be my own artist. Plus, he actually had four Factories--I was in the first one, and then eventually, he was shot in 1968, so then things changed. Then he became the General Motors of the socialites and so forth, and I had to do my own creations. But I saw him about two months before he died, actually, and he looked fantastic. He looked very empowered. He had so much power. By then, he'd come to his power. It was impressive. And, as you know, it's a tragedy what happened in the hospital. It was malpractice and it was a lawsuit that the Andy Warhol Foundation, of course, won. It was just a disgrace. He should not have died.
MR: It would have been great to have him with us throughout all these eras--and now, especially.
UV: Yes, I agree.
MR: Got any advice for new artists?
UV: Do not give up your day job and intern with Ultra Violet.
MR: How about for musical artists?
UV: Do not give up your day job and intern with Ultra Violet. And practice, practice, practice, like Barbra Streisand.
MR: One last political question, should Obama get credit for taking out Kadafi and Bin Laden?
UV: Give credit to the one billion that it cost and to the tax payers that paid for it.
MR: Wow. Ultra Violet, this has been a brilliant conversation, I really appreciate your time. I stand by my earlier statement, I absolutely do find you fascinating.
UV: Wonderful! Thank you, thank you.
Transcribed by Claire Wellin
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