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Mitch Goldich

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Eli Manning's Legacy Still Undetermined

Posted: 02/13/2012 11:21 am

I was flipping through channels Sunday, trying to cope with my football withdrawal, when I discovered the NFL Network was thankfully running a marathon of Super Bowl highlights. As I sat entranced by some of the championship games from my childhood, the one that stood out was Super Bowl XXXII between John Elway's Broncos and Brett Favre's Packers.

Favre significantly outplayed Elway, except for one famous eight yard scramble with a helicopter finish. Still, Elway won his first of two Super Bowls, while Favre never got back to the big game and retired with just one Super Bowl victory.

Choosing who had a better career between Favre and Elway is a tough debate, determined largely by each quarterback's 52 teammates in that single game. This, naturally, made me think of Eli Manning.

Manning's legacy was a hot-button issue in the weeks leading up to and following the Super Bowl, particularly because Giants fans already spent an entire season arguing that he is an "elite" quarterback, as if the term was anything more than just an arbitrary, immeasurable status.

No players in any sport are evaluated based on championships as much as NFL quarterbacks. But is it fair to judge a quarterback's entire career on that one criteria?

Regardless of who wins, I often cringe at the Super Bowl post-game coverage and the annual heaping of praise that takes place in the following 24-48 hours.

Last year some pundits (and some Packers fans) tried to make the argument that Aaron Rodgers had already surpassed Favre after just three seasons as a starter, despite Favre's three MVPs and multiple league records. Well, Rodgers did look good this Super Bowl Sunday, but unfortunately for him it was as a commentator after melting away with a one-and-done playoff run for the second time in three years.

Nothing against Rodgers, who backed up his Super Bowl run with a spectacular MVP season, but it's premature to declare any player an all-time great when he's barely into the prime of his career. While many were right about how good Rodgers is, the reality is that he's still chasing Favre's accomplishments. It may take a few more disappointing playoff exits for people to realize that, but some of those are bound to come.

The question was raised immediately whether or not Manning, with his two Super Bowl rings, is now a Hall of Famer. Within 48 hours of the Super Bowl, everybody seemed to have an opinion. After digesting it for a week and watching summaries of 10 other Super Bowls, my honest answer is... we don't know yet. He's only 31, and many quarterbacks (like Elway) shape their legacies much later in their careers. There's a reason players aren't eligible for the Hall of Fame until five years after they retire.

By virtue of his two titles, Manning has now officially outclassed many players with long, successful careers but no titles. But had a few balls bounced differently in just a handful of games throughout history, his career may have been no better than guys like Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Drew Bledsoe. I watched all three of them play and lose Super Bowls during my highlight marathon, and analysts would have gushed that each of them was on a Hall of Fame trajectory if they'd been clutching a Lombardi trophy in a cloud of confetti. Yet like Favre and Elway, their teammates had as great an impact on their losses as they did.

So Manning is now paradoxically Mr. Clutch on the road in the playoffs despite a career record of 27-36 in the second half of the season. That includes pedestrian marks of 3-5 this year and 4-4 the year of his previous Super Bowl victory.

On one hand, he just nearly threw for a 5,000 yard season. On the other hand, he's never been in the top three in the league in completions, completion percentage, yards, touchdowns or passer rating. He's made the Pro Bowl two times, the same amount as non-Hall of Famer and Super Bowl champ Brad Johnson. And had one fumble or Hail Mary bounced in a different direction, all of the debates would have instead been about whether or not Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all-time. So Manning has two rings, but it's laughable to think that Eli has had a better career than, say, his older brother Peyton.

It's possible that over the next six years he'll set some records, or lead the league in a few categories -- the type of lines the all-time greats have on their resumes to go along with their titles. It's also possible that he won't.

I know that some day in 15 years I'll be on my couch watching replays of Eli Manning in the Super Bowl. What I don't know is how the next handful of seasons will determine his place in history. But unlike many people I heard from in the direct aftermath of the Super Bowl, I'm comfortable waiting a few years to make up my mind.

 

Follow Mitch Goldich on Twitter: www.twitter.com/mitchgoldich

I was flipping through channels Sunday, trying to cope with my football withdrawal, when I discovered the NFL Network was thankfully running a marathon of Super Bowl highlights. As I sat entranced by...
I was flipping through channels Sunday, trying to cope with my football withdrawal, when I discovered the NFL Network was thankfully running a marathon of Super Bowl highlights. As I sat entranced by...
 
 
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06:11 PM on 02/15/2012
Eli could win three more superbowls, set passing records, etc. and people would still not consider him as good as his brother.
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
11:16 AM on 02/16/2012
Really? Three more for a total of five, a record.
Believe me if Eli wins two more and Peyton (with his losing post season record) doesn't play again Eli rockets passsed his brother in terms of who is better thought of by the media and fans.
In sports, winning trumps great numbers nearly every time.
11:43 AM on 02/15/2012
Eli is being punished for not being on a finesse team. Please consider the G’s have always been a run first, power football team. Hence the names Jacobs, and Bradshaw. And don’t forget how good they were when Derrick Ward was part of the run game and Ryan Grant, now a Packer, was a backup. It’s the only way to win in the NFC East.
That being said, the G’s have a balanced offense. Eli doesn’t have to be Brees or Rodgers because of the running game. But then again a look back on the past season he is capable of being a finesse QB as good as any. He is as good as any QB in the league. Still can’t say enough about the pass to Manningham either. Any…Any! Feel me?
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BassguyGG
Former Moderate driven Left by eight years of Bush
11:32 AM on 02/15/2012
Eli's not done. The bet here is that he gets at least one more ring before he's done. Gonna be tough next year because the Giants will lose a lot of players, as Super Bowl teams always do. But the Giants' front office knows how to draft and fill their needs quickly. After this season nobody can ever again question his toughness or whether he is one of the "elite" quarterbacks. He is in the "More than One Super Bowl Ring" category, which as only the tenth QB in NFL history to do so, puts him in some pretty rarefied company: Terry Bradshaw (4) Joe Montana (4)Troy Aikman (3) Tom Brady (3) Bart Starr (2 should really be 6 with four pre-SB Era championships) Bob Griese (2) Jim Plunkett (2) John Elway (2) Ben Roethlisberger (2)
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
01:39 PM on 02/15/2012
If he can actually pull it off and win one more SB, you're right, Eli is a shoe-in for the Hall. It would put him in extremely rare company and to be honest that's the only reason a player like Mr Aikman got in while players like Phil Simms and Ken Anderson have not.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
frank day
Republican = FAIL
08:05 AM on 02/14/2012
Giants won that first SuperBowl on the strength of their D.

This last one was due to Manning's poise and accuracy as much as anything else.

He is definitely in an elite class of QBs.
02:26 PM on 03/12/2012
They did win the first SB on the strength of their D and the work in progress that was their relationship with D Coach Spagnuolo.

But, Eli did pull off the drive that put them ahead for good, including the football version of Endy Chavez's The Catch, so he has to get some credit for the first SB.
08:20 PM on 02/13/2012
"Eli Manning is the real life Forest Gump of the NFL".
You want to talk about a great Fantasy Football pick, that's exactly where he belongs!
11:31 PM on 02/13/2012
You are arrogant and ignorant. Eli Manning has won two Super Bowls and you can say what you want about stats, or make fun of his humble personal demeanor. Don't pick hm on your fantasy football team, pick someone you have a man crush on. We like him plenty here in NY and he has accomplished a great deal in his career for a team that has traditionally put more draft priority on the defensive side of the ball.
10:43 AM on 02/14/2012
Eli ... HUMBLE?

""you can say what you want about stats, or make fun of his humble personal demeanor""

Eli Manning was asked if he were as good as Tom Brady and he Humbly said
"Yes, I am" I was happy for Eli when he freakishly helped win the Super Bowl, the last time, which I will always see as a charity case win. The Giants are nothing but spoilers, like a virus that infects really great football teams, like Green Bay and the Patriots, nothing great about a spoiler team. Eli is like the train in Little Toot. hahahaha

I will not be surprised if the Giants again end up with a 9 win regular season and go to the Super Bowl again and win. This type of team hurts the NFL over all, it undervalues the true great players and teams.
05:13 PM on 02/13/2012
I think for a lot of people nothing that Eli does will be good enough. Interestingly, Eli never said he's better than Peyton or that he should be in the Hall of Fame - all that he has said is....'I just want to work hard and help my team win'.

Even when he was asked the question on the Michael Kay show (8/16)...by the way, it was a very unfair question that put him in a catch 22 situation. If he had replied saying 'no I'm not in the same class as Brady', folks would have crucified him saying, 'how do you expect to win a superbowl with a quarterback who's not confident'. Conversely, he said he is in the same class as Brady and everybody made fun of him for saying that. By the way, while he did say he was in the same class as Brady, he also said it was as much due to the Giants O-line and their overall offense - Eli wasn't hogging all the credit.

The bottomline for Giants fans' is - are the Giants winning? I'd rather have Eli and win 2 superbowls in 8yrs than have a QB that the whole world thinks is Elite but the team can't win. Full disclosure....I am a loyal Giants fan who wouldn't trade Eli for any QB in the world.
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BassguyGG
Former Moderate driven Left by eight years of Bush
11:40 AM on 02/15/2012
While we Giant fans love Eli we still have to give props to Tom Brady, who does happen to have three Super Bowl rings himself. It's just that he's 0-2 against our team in the Super Bowl!
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
03:00 PM on 02/13/2012
Eli Manning has already accomplished something that no other Giants QB has done in the team's 85+ year history. Won two NFL Championships.
He has also won more playoff games than any QB in Giants history with 8.
Unless he gets seriously injured (like his brother), after about 3 more full seasons he will hold every Giants passing record.
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BassguyGG
Former Moderate driven Left by eight years of Bush
11:48 AM on 02/15/2012
Tuffy Leemans couldn't do it.
Charley Conerly couldn't do it.
Y.A. Tittle couldn't do it.
Fran Tarkenton couldn't do it.
Phil Simms couldn't do it.
Kerry Collins couldn't do it.
Eli Manning did it!
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
01:24 PM on 02/15/2012
You left out Ed Danowski, Earl Morrall (okay that one's being picky) and Jeff Hostetler.
Actually Charley Conerly came the closest. He lead the 1958 Championship game late in the fourth quarter and the 1959 Championship after 3 quarters and both times John Unitas went wild.
02:40 PM on 02/13/2012
Brady has won 3 superbowls, all of the patriot wins by less than a touchdown. They needed a miracle fieldgole to beet an upstart panthers club. Where would his legacy be without a few well placed field gole kicks?
08:26 PM on 02/13/2012
Its obvious you know nothing about Football, Take a look at the records that Tom Brady holds and his stats and compare them to Forest Gump Manning's records and stats.
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The INDYpendent
Equal Opportunity Offender
01:54 PM on 02/13/2012
Congrats on making it to the Huffington Post, Mitch. You were my RD at Indiana Beta.
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
01:33 PM on 02/13/2012
In determining who deserves to get into any hall of fame sports writers should take into account a players career numbers as well as the success of his team while he played for them.
Unfortunately in recent years NFL Hall of Fame ballot casters have turned the process into not much more than a high school popularity contest so that we now have a situation where players who have no business getting into the hall breeze through while others who should be first ballot are left out.
Under those circumstances it becomes nearly impossible to judge any individual player's worth or eligibility. It's basically a free-for-all, or more like a shell game where a certain thing (championships won) is touted as being most important sometimes while another thing, like pure lifetime stats, is elevated at other times.
This "shell game" allows sports writers and veterans commitees alike to pick and choose only those players they "like" to be honored, while players that were not "nice" to them or played for teams the writer didn't liked during their career can be left out.
This is true for almost all post season awards that are voted upon, not just for the hall of fame. Everything from league MVP to all-pro status have been reduced to popularity contests.
11:46 AM on 02/14/2012
I would agree that there are plenty of deserving players still waiting to get in, but I'm curious who you think has just "breezed" in without making his mark on the game?

Unlike the baseball hall of fame, which seems so focused on numbers and stats only, the football HOF seems to grasp more of what the hall should be -- a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Guys Who Had Long Careers So They Could Put Up Impressive Numbers.

You could argue, for instance, that Joe Namath's stats aren't "hall-worthy" but his place in the game and all that surrounded Super Bowl III and the era of the NFL-AFL merger are undeniable.

Eli has quarterbacked his team to two Super Bowl titles. The Hall, rightfully so, will not keep out a QB with two rings. Even if the rest of his career is average at best, he'll get in. And he deserves to. The HOF, which is for the fans, makes a lot more sense to admit a two-time champion than simply a statistically good QB.

Phillip Rivers, for instance, has a much better career QB rating and far fewer interceptions than Manning, but, so what?
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
01:35 PM on 02/15/2012
My comment was not meant as a knock against Eli at all but was as stated, a criticism of how NFL players are chosen to get into the hall of fame.
Just this last vote is a (somewhat mild) example. Although Curtis Martin deserves to be in, simple logic says there are a host of players who have been eligible longer then him that should have made it before him. Tops on that list are Cris Carter and Ray Guy. Putting Martin in before them sends a message that Hall voters are approving guys they like for some reason ahead of what's logical and fair.
Another example. Here are three names of players that have no business being in the hall at all: Floyd Little, Roger Wehrli, Charlie Sanders. When they played (in the 60's and 70's) and then retired nobody thought about them as hall of famers in any way.
jhNY
Mercy.
12:46 PM on 02/13/2012
Aside from his ability to throw long and late with accuracy, I think Eli's greatest asset is his ability to see every down as a fresh opportunity to do something decisive in the game--- even if the down before he got sacked. Not too many QB's have that latter gift, and once sufficiently rattled, cannot continue to perform as planned. Eli always bounces up, ready to go.

Maybe he won't deserve consideration as one of the greatest ever, but he's off to a fine start.
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FirstGame72
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
11:20 AM on 02/16/2012
Great point NY. That IS Eli's greatest asset so far.
2nd is his ever increasing ablility to read defenses and call plays pre snap at the line of scrimmage.