The Gun Shy Candidates: Clinton and Obama
Let's hear it for guns!
It's really getting dangerous in Los Angeles. The last two weeks we've seen so many random shootings I'm starting to lose track. I would say it's beginning to feel like Baghdad only that wouldn't be quite fair. The U.S. troop surge has really tamped down the violence in Iraq's carefree, cosmopolitan capital. Oh, except for this week's double suicide bombing, which killed more than 50 people and wounded more than 120 others. But that was a fluke, right?
But, truly, the gunfire in our sunny, palm-tree-lined streets is getting a bit much. A week ago one of my writing students, a high-school English teacher in South LA, walked into class practically shaking. That afternoon his students had just left school when a gunman started shooting at a bus stop down the street. His kids sprinted back to class. None of them got hit, but five children from a nearby middle school did. The last I heard, the 12-year-old girl who was struck in the chest was still in critical condition. I'm sure she'll pull through!
Sadly, that's not the case for Jamiel Shaw, who was shot multiple times last Sunday night by a couple of strangers three doors from home. Oh, if only the 17-year-old had been armed! I'm sure he could have got off a few rounds at his young male killers before falling to the pavement. Even though it was dark and he might have accidentally sprayed some other teen walking home.
Oh, well!
Instead the high-school football star who was headed for college died. And Jamiel's little brother Thomas was said to ask their father, "Dad, are they going to kill me, too?"
I think Thomas's dad should consider buying him a gun. I've heard that Glocks are light, fit nicely in the palm. That way the nine-year-old can protect himself if a kerfuffle breaks out during recess. That's what happened to my son. When he was nine, an eight-year-old boy in his class threatened to shoot him after my son called him "out" in handball. Thank goodness the kid was shipped off to another school!
Speaking of boys, did I mention the six-year-old who's now on life support? He was riding in his family's SUV when a hail of bullets from another car shattered the back window. One struck him in the head. The first grader is in critical condition.
Oh, and I almost forgot Lawrence King. Though, technically, the eighth grader was not from Los Angeles but Oxnard, California, a blue-collar community up the coast. Two days before Valentine's Day, and oddly, just as the traumatized students at Northern Illinois University were bracing to return after their own massacre, the 15-year-old was shot in the head during English class by a 14-year-old boy. He apparently took issue with Lawrence's "effeminate dress," as one local story put it, and has been charged with first degree murder with the special allegation of a hate crime.
I told you there were a lot of shootings.
What to do? Maybe what we need in response to all this gun carnage and mayhem and violence is more guns! That's what lawmakers in about 15 states are proposing. They want college students to be able to pack concealed weapons so they can defend themselves. No matter that law enforcement isn't crazy about the idea. Or that police and others actually skilled at gun play hit their targets a mere 20 percent of the time.
A few enterprising lawmakers, like State Senator Karen S. Johnson of Arizona, would have guns in elementary schools too. As Johnson, the sponsor of a firearms bill that recently passed the Arizona senate, told the New York Times: "I feel like our kindergartners are just sitting ducks."
That part of Johnson's bill didn't fly. But can't you just picture it? Instead of duck, duck goose, teachers could do target practice on the yard. Shoot, shoot Britney!
Despite the horrific school shootings of late and the rush to solutions, there are a few politicians whose voices have been silent on the issue.
Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
I wonder what their views are on gun control?
But I guess in Texas and Ohio, and Wyoming, and Pennsylvania, they don't have these kinds of problems.
Follow Mona Gable on Twitter: www.twitter.com/monalg
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Vote McCain! Sen. McCain and the republicans would make sure that everyone would be strapped at birth.
Not that many years ago one could mail order a long gun or handgun and have it sent right to your door. Older hunters that grew up in the country will tell you that they were allowed to bring guns to school, store them in their locker and go hunt rabbits, etc., right after school. I don’t believe the senseless shootings being described here were at all common back then. What I don’t see in this article is a meaningful discussion of what has happened to US between then and now because that is (we are) the problem and making guns more difficult to obtain is not the answer.
You are quite right that in many parts of Texas and Ohio, and Wyoming, and Pennsylvania, they don't have these kinds of problems, at least, not in the magnitude you describe; and gun safety laws in those areas are much more lax than those in Los Angeles.
Very frankly, not owning a gun, I'd be quite happy if we could repeal the Second Amendment and implement a national ban on firearms; but, as they say down home, "that dog won't hunt". And given that I know a number of folks who feel just as strongly about the Second Amendment as I feel about the First, I'm not sure that's such a bad thing (I know I don't want some do-gooding Reverends from Virginia to start monkeying around with the Establisment Clause).
As a liberal, it also seems to me, however, that too many times we take the easy way out by calling for gun control laws rather than by addressing the root causes of violence. Granted those causes are not always readily ascertainable, nor are they susceptible to correction by simply enacting a statute. And often in the past when Democrats have attempted to eliminate or ameliorate conditions thought to underlie those causes, we get politically whacked about the head (i.e. the carefully stoked backlash against elements of LBJ's Great Society that helped create the phenomenon known as the Reagan Democrats, the rightwing ridicule of the "midnight basketball" initiative in the 1994 crime bill). Nevertheless, if we really want to make Los Angeles and the country less of a dangerous place, we need to do that hard work and probably take some political hits while doing it.
Great post. Political hits, and sadly officer hits as well.
I agree. I know Senator's Obama stance on illegal immigration but what is Senator's Clinton. You can sweep this stereotypical ideology that "all illegal immigrants come here to do is work on job American's don't want" out of the door. If you have ever visited LA county, you would know that Hispanics are the overwhelmingly majority and many are illegal immigrants and gang killings are on the rise. There is a correlation. Giving guns to children surely is not the answer but you have to address the illegal immigration issue because that's a major factor in the rise in violent crimes in L.A.
Who actually gives guns to children?
Blaming "illegal immigration" for violence in large cities is a continuation of right-wing victimization that is pathetic. Scapegoating those "lower down on the food chain" is a common reaction by people who feel impotent about their about their futures or a common complaint by those who feel economically pressed.
But, to blame large city violence on these "hoards of illegals" really goes beyond the pale.
At the very least it is a massive over-simplification of the many problems being faced in urban America.
The biggest problem about this divisive issue is that "defenders" of the 2nd Amendment will accept "no compromises" -- on local gun policies -- but have no idea what life is really like in urban communities and why locals might want extra regulations. And gun opponents sometimes try to "legislate" local issues on a national scale since they have no knowledge, respect or understanding of responsible gun ownership and supporters.
This question is unfair. Obama and Clinton cannot take an anti-gun position because it would cost them Pennsylvania (and maybe WV, TN, and NV) in the general election, and without PA the Democrats cannot win.
However, I would think that each candidate could at least have a staffer speak privately to the gun-control groups and outline their goals. This would provide needed reassurance, if indeed public support is not feasible during the campaign.
So the candidates should lie to the American voter or at least duck the gun issue during this election cycle. They should however inform special interest groups of their real plans instead of the voters. After winning the election the candidate should somehow 'Change Their Mind' on the gun issue and propose sweeping new laws that were not mentioned during months and months of campaigning.
Is this a Liberal, Democract or Progressive campaign stratedgy?
Instead of Banning guns or placing ridiculous non working laws in place ban gangs and gang members and lock them all up in one of those detention centers that KBR and fema are building. Place them there for life. Require mandatory psychological psychological exams yearly for ALL people. Then treat them and if they fail place their names on a list banning them from owning guns. Mona you like many other do not think in a logical manner but rather in an emotional frame of mind.
Yes any unnatural death is a tragedy and there are people who should not have a tooth pick let alone a gun. Look at history, a Good book is " lethal laws" , When guns are banned genocide usually follows. 1776
Yes .....mandatory physical and psychological exams every year. Then place the results on a universal bar code attached to our foreheads so the world knows everything about us. Particularly handy for prospective employers ..... saves on those pesky employee health care costs.
The ultimate necon republican dream but we gotta figure out how the rich will be exempted out of the process.
That is not what i said Toonadude; I said every one, that includes the rich and politicians. This information would go into a government data base that only gun dealers and law enforcement could access. Please do not put a spin on my words that is not nice. 1776
I assume you are joking.
Freedom of association, one of our fundamental rights as Americans.
kevinabt;Let the criminals associate in a prison setting. Gangs are for the most part criminals who exist by selling drugs. LOCK THEM AND KEEP THEM THERE. the crime rate will fall. Criminal control not gun control. 1776
Perhaps it would do some good to stop worshipping toughness and physical strength.
The heroe isn't the one with the big fists who is feared by everyone.
The heroe is the smart guy who's able to speak with diplomacy and who's open to new ideas.
Also if parents spent more time reading books and cooking meals to their kids instead of putting them in front of worthless TV programs and stuffing them with take away junk food, the kids would feel more loved and would be more balanced.
But then I assume parents couldn't be economical slaves.
First step would be to acknoledge you've got a huge problem there. You shouldn't accept that level of violence in a Western civilized country. You just should not.
francoise; Yes there is a problem . It is called the U.S government will not make being a gang member a felony. Get rid of the gangs and the violence factor drops like a rock off the Empiere Sate building.1776
I almost hate to open this can of worms. In the days after America entering WWII almost the entire class of Yale went to the recruiter's office to sign up for military service. Can you imagine college students doing anything similiar today? They are scared to death they might have to give some kind of service to their country. I look at stories of the Va Tech shooting and I'm struck by the sacrifice of one old professor that barricaded a class room door with his own body. I think about all of the big strong jocks that cowered meekly instead of rushing the shooter. I've read the NIU shooter lined up some of his vicims before murdering them. Submitting doesn't work. Then I read stories about how no one wants concealed carry on campus because they are afraid of the 1% or 2% of students that are willing to fight back.
I wish that strength and toughness were a little more respected among our youth. Real strength and toughness, not the ability to carry a ball down a sideline.
You have no bloody idea what you would do in a life and death situation. How dare you accuse anyone of acting in any way that is less than honorable in a situation when they have a person with a gun is facing them.
You are a coward to be speaking like this about the dead. Shame on you!
I assume you have been a soldier? I hope so...
Me? I survived a suicide truck bomb attack in Lebanon. I know what it is like to have the world crumble under your feet. And to have scores of people die around in in just a few seconds. Unless you are especially trained -- your body goes into shock. And you expect teen-agers -- children to respond appropriately?
A friend of my niece died at VA Tech. A gay young man who died defending the first young victim. You have no idea how any of the other young people died.
You are pond scum.
As far as letting "everyone" carry guns on college campuses -- I don't know about you -- but with all the drinking, anxiety, hormones, fear, anger -- and all the other emotions you often find in a college setting -- I would rather let my children take their chances with a "One in a Million Lone Gunman" than have a bunch of armed, drunken, gun-crazy frat boys wandering around their dorms during Finals week.
Firearms in the possession of American citizens is the only thing that will ensure the swearing in of a new President on 20 Jan 2009.
Disarm the gang bangers first. Then you can have my gun. Not before. Are you listening? I said NOT BEFORE!
I'd like to know the last time you were within 10 miles of a "gang-banger!"
I live within a few miles of some notorious DC gangs and I am not quaking in my boots. I just take normal and reasonable precautions and manage to live without a gun. And I am a "girly girl."
I am more frightened of drunken red-necks (in their pick-ups -- with or without their guns) -- when I go out to my farm in Virginia.
Get a grip gun guys. The world isn't out to get you. Don't be such Fraidy Cats!
Really a scared police chief and mayor were out to get the gun owners of New Orleans. Will you protect my kids and wife if anything like that happens here? I think not. You place all your faith in a government that no longer sees the people are the boss but as a servants. I think I will keep my guns.
Guns don't kill, people do. And, guns are always available for those who want them bad enough. It is even possible to make them yourself. Banning guns has not helped where it has been implemented.
We must protect the right of any wacko to buy guns willy nilly and then go out and commit mass murders.
It's sacred you know. You don't mess with that. That's what makes America great.
No insurance. No mental health checks. No accounting for your weapon after you purchase it.
Oh I almost forgot another sacred American tradition that must be preserved no matter how many die.
The Gun Show. It must be protected like heterosexual marriage if we are to survive as a nation. Charlton Heston says so.
He's like God Himself you know.
Lyndon Johnson (and John Edwards) had it right: poverty is the problem, not guns.
When I was a kid, there were guns in our home. If I wanted to, I could have used one, but I never did. Now, I carry a gun every day (legally, of course), but I never use it. Why? Because I have everything to lose.
The kids who are shooting other kids are doing it because they have NOTHING worthwhile to lose. They grew up in poverty, and they are going to die there. Prison, or the gas chamber, doesn't scare them.
Passing more gun laws will not change things for those kids. It will make it harder for me to buy a[nother] new Glock, or outlaw some large-capacity magazines, but these kids' lives will not improve.
In fact, they'll get worse: every time we lose an election to the NRA, POVERTY gets worse...
Yes, that's why the NRA works so hard to elect legislators who care about poverty!
Rightiesrule said:
"Perhaps she could consider that criminals and crazies don't obey the law."
Rightiesrule your leaving out the fact that there really is no law to speak of. Any crazy can purchase a gun just like replacement ink over the internet. Are you saying that if a background check included a thorough mental health screening in a national database in coocrdination with mental health professionals we couldn't control some of the mass murders that occuring with ever more Alarming frequency?
It's appalling to watch you gun lobby freaks just slough off children dying all over our country like it's just an everyday thing and what's the big to-do about. Gun dealers should be put out of business immediately and replaced by State gun stores or better yet Federal Gun Stores where if you have a criminal or mental health problem background you just don't get a gun. Any gun.
Private sales of ALL guns should be banned completely. For our kids sake if nothing else.
Don't worry you'll still be able to get your gun if your a responsible law abiding citizen.
As long as you present your firearms and account for each one every year and purchase appropriate insurance against gun accidents and God forbid an actual mass slaying or murder.
Are you good with that Rightiesrule?
No, we're not. Any candidate that would put forth such a plan would not get a SINGLE vote from anyone who held the Second Amendement as sacredly as the others. WHich means, we vote Republican.
So . . . are you willing to stand on your principals and hand the election to the GOP? Or are you willing to stand down from your mis-conceived and hopelessly naive plan and elect a Democrat?
That's pretty much your choice. So think very carefully how you answer.
I don't trust the government to secretly tap my phone to keep me safe and I sure as hell don't trust them to keep a national database on who is or is not crazy.
"Let's do it for the children." That's the mating cry of the American liberal. If you can't get your way or your laws don't work it doesn't matter. Let's do it for the children.
Soooo....you really like the kids. Are you pro abortion? I don't really care, it's not my issue, but you seem to be willing to give up rights for the kids. How about abortion? Only about 1 million are aborted per year in America.
Not to burst your bubble but there is a question on the firearms purchase form about being committed. If the states aren't including that information in their state police databases they need to start. Va has done so and Illinois was going to do so even before the NIU shooting. Unfortunately they didn't do so sooner. By the way, most of those children you are so concerned about are gang members killing each other. That tragedy can be debated. I do hate to see stories of innocents gunned down as much as the rest of you. I am not willing to give up any rights because of criminals committing illegal acts with guns they are not even allowed to touch.
But back to the children. Should you have to get a permit to get pregnant? You have to remember you'll spend 18 years raising a person that will affect the lives of everyone around them. Shouldn't you have some kind of training before having kids? Shouldn't you have some kind of mental screening before shaping the mind of a person that will walk the Earth for the next 70+ years? Should the inability to keep your knees together be the sole qualification for squeezing out kid after kid regardless of parenting ability, income or sanity? I believe parents are a bigger issue than gun control.
Can you show me one report, ( not written but a gun control nut ) that shows gun laws work? The CDC Or AMA did one of the most exhaustive studies and found no correlation between gun laws and gun crime. Please get off this one more law it is not one more law we know were it ends. I like the comment above about lying to the people during the campaign and sneaking around with the gun control crowd. That sounds very democratic.
There seems to be a direct correlation actually. More gun restrictions result in more gun crime.
What has King Bush done about Immigration...Nada! As far as guns it would be insane to have everyone packing like the wild west.Let's listen to the Police.They are the ones risking their lives every day. I think their opinion matters the most.
I don't think the opinions of the police matter any more than yours or mine. They are public servants doing a job they volunteered for. I respect them and appreciate the job they do. I'm not willing to defer my rights to their whims.
I imagine their jobs would be alot easier if we gave up the rights to assemble or Freedom of the Press. Imagine how much easier their jobs would have been in LA if the press couldn't have run Rodney King stories. Imagine how much easier their jobs would have been if protesters couldn't gather. Ok, lets give up any rights that might make law enforcements job harder.
Why do anti gunners think everyone wants to 'Pack' like it's the 'Wild West?' Wanting to have a right doesn't mean you're going to exercise it. Great job on the obligatory western rhetoric though.
RightiesRule says: "They will always get a gun if they want one."
Yeah right Rightie. Nothing could ever change that. With the flood of cheap handguns being produced and then sold to gang members and criminals of all stripes. Isn't it strange you have to have insurance to drive a car but not to own a gun? You have to take a driving test but not a shooting test.
I guess that would make it too expensive and of course there's the delay in obtaining the gun you need so badly. Someone else might get theirs first and plug you.
All guns should be sold with the requirement each and every one is brought in and accounted for every year. If you don't report or don't bring in all your guns your in serious trouble. All gun owners should be required to purchase insurance to cover any accidents or god forgive mass slayings.
All guns should only be sold from licensed federal or state gun stores just like alcohol and all mental health professionals should become a part of an online database where gun dealers can submit the potential gun owners social security number to be cleared first before the individual takes delivery.
See it's not really so hard to control a thing if you really want to.
Which of our other Ammendments would you like similarly curtailed? The First? The Fourth? The Fourteenth?
A Right is a Right. Inalienable. Look it up.
Who gets to decide who belongs in the database of crazy people? George W.? Or god forbid President Hillary Clinton?
No one out there is selling guns to gang members or criminals unless it's other criminals. It doesn't matter if a gun costs $80 or $800. Of course we're told the criminals prefer the cheap guns because they can use them and discard them. Then we're told they like those expensive hi capacity 9mm because they like the firepower of 15 round magazines. Next we're told they really like those 'Assault Weapons' because of the firepower and the ability to spray rounds everywhere. I wish you anti's could get your stories straight. As 'Assault Weapons' are used in less than 1% of crimes it would seem that one is wrong. It would also be helpful if you would decide if criminals like the cheap guns or the expensive hi capacity pistols. Oh what the hell, ban them all. That's your real agenda. For the record I don't think a law abiding citizen should have to be able to afford a $800 pistol to defend him/herself.
If it wasn't for anti gunners like yourself then gun owners like myself would not fight against gun laws requiring insurance, mandatory shooting qualification, etc. When I read comments by you and your peers in the rabidly gun hating crowd it makes me doubt that all you want is this one more little gun law. I suspect your agenda is more like baby steps towards total gun control.
By the way, car ownership is not guarenteed by the Constitution. If you want to compare gun laws to car laws then felons could own as many guns as they wish if the automobile laws were applied. Minors could own as many guns as they wish if auto laws were used. Drunks could use their guns however they wished as long as they remained on their own property if we applied automobile laws to gun ownership. They are two entirely different issues and unrelated.
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