Mort Zuckerman

Mort Zuckerman

Posted April 13, 2009 | 11:47 AM (EST)

The Story You Aren't Hearing About Israel

digg Share this on Facebook Huffpost - stumble reddit del.ico.us RSS

Did you hear about the two policemen who stopped to help a driver stuck with a flat--and were shot to death in the head at point-blank range?

Did you know about the 120-kilogram bomb planted in a parking lot adjacent to a shopping mall where thousands of people were milling about the stores, restaurants, and movie theaters?

No, of course, you didn't. These are just two everyday incidents of the ordeal confronted by people in Israel while the world and the political leaders look away. Outrages like these do not make it into the Western media, which exhibit the familiar phenomenon of monitoring only the conflicts that are the flavor of the month. And when they do turn to Israel, sporadically, it is with the excitement of thinking they can expose Israeli wrongdoing: the New York Times just drummed up a front-page story alleging the deliberate murder of innocent civilians by Israeli soldiers during the Gaza war, a poorly investigated report that turned out to be yet another urban myth and then was shamefully corrected by the Times only on the inside pages and only by blaming Israel for the false report. (Remember another urban myth alleging thousands of citizens massacred in the battle against terrorism in Jenin in 2002 when it turned out no more than 54 died, most of them combatants?)

Ordinary Israelis despair of the cruel bias. The policemen died because Israel eased restrictions on movement in the Nablus area of the West Bank. Hundreds survived in the attack on the mall near Haifa only because a woman reported hearing an explosion. Security found it was a detonator that expired without setting off a car bomb that would have lacerated the crowds with sharp metal and ball bearings.

The willingness to give a free pass to terrorism was, of course, manifest most luridly in the Gaza war. Hamas fired thousands of rockets with the short-term aim of murdering as many innocent civilians as possible in the service of the longer-term ambition to terrorize Israel.

Then, when Israel finally responded (with military restraint and humanitarian aid), it was faced with world demands for an unconditional cease-fire. Ironically, the fiercest criticism in the Arab world about Israel's conduct in Gaza stems from Israel's failure to achieve a decisive victory, for the Arab world rightly perceives not Israel but Hamas as a threat: It knows full well that Hamas is a fifth column for Iranian influence.

Once the cease-fire was achieved, the world lost interest in Israel. Except that now, in a fit of selectively lethal amnesia, it is on the verge of providing the selfsame murderous Hamas with a huge influx of funding that will rebuild the authority of a terrorist organization dedicated to killing Jews.

The tragedy for the Palestinians as much as the Israelis is that they do not have leadership strong enough to make peace. Hamas wants perpetual war: No one can doubt that it aims not to have a two-state solution but to have a "no state" solution--that is, to have the State of Israel stop existing. For its part, "moderate" Fatah is hopelessly corrupt and weak and seemingly incapable of reform or of enforcing law and order on its people. That is why an Israeli-Palestinian peace remains a dream today and why what Israel can offer the Palestinians is less than what any Palestinian politician is willing or able to attempt.

Even the language of peace is eroding. The Palestinians say they support two states for two peoples but refrain from saying that one of those is the Jewish people. Most recently, a major Palestine Liberation Organization figure, Mohammed Dahlan, asserted that the Fatah movement hasn't even recognized Israel thus far and that the Palestinian Authority's apparent "recognition" of Israel is to make the PA "acceptable" to the international community, in order to bring in international aid. Who can trust that?

There is justification for the widespread Israeli concern that if a Palestinian state were established, power in Gaza, and then in the West Bank, would soon fall into the hands of Hamas. After all, Hamas won 44 percent of the vote and the mayoralty in several major cities in the last West Bank election. Another unreported fact that reflects on what would happen if Hamas won: The most credible of the Palestinian-run news operations, the Ma'an News Agency, has posted three listings involving a total of 181 persons--all Fatah people--shot by Hamas in Gaza since December 2008.

The Fatah party is facing an election within a year, which may well be won by Hamas. If the Iranian-supported Hamas ultimately succeeds in its 20-year effort to be the principal voice of Palestinian nationalism, Israel will have a neighbor that truly speaks for Iran's goal of seeing Israel "wiped off the face of the Earth."

In a "unity" government, Hamas would undoubtedly be integrated in the security services, which would end Palestinian-Israeli security cooperation covering the majority of the West Bank cities. Hamas wants Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to stop negotiations with Israel and to embrace the political program that allows for "resistance" -- in other words, violence.

No wonder the Palestinian Reconciliation Conference in Cairo ended in failure. Even the lure of billions of dollars in aid has not brought Fatah Sunnis in Judea and Samaria, i.e., the West Bank, any closer to Shiite supporters of Hamas in Gaza. These are two parallel lines that cannot meet, and this division will persist.

And what of Israeli leadership? Now Israel has Binyamin Netanyhu trying to form a cabinet. The world may be skeptical about the will and political ability of a more conservative Likud government to make historic and dramatic decisions that involve painful concessions to the Palestinians in the interest of a two-state solution, but history suggests otherwise. It was Menachem Begin's Likud government that brought about the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty. It was Yitzhak Shamir's Likud government that began the peace process at the Madrid Conference in October of 1991. Netanyahu's Likud party and its reservations should not be dismissed lightly, for it was Netanyahu who predicted way back in 1994 that handing over territories to Palestinians would lead to the creation of a fundamental Islamic terrorist base adjacent to Israel.

Israel has taken many risks for peace. The response has been rocket fire, terrorism, more incitement, more vilification, more shedding of Israeli blood, and less security, not to mention an ongoing historic campaign to defame, denounce, denigrate, and delegitimize Israel in every international forum.

Contrary to many reports, Netanyahu has asserted that he is not opposed to a two-state solution, provided it does not put at risk the national security of the Jewish state. The key component would be a record of Palestinian determination and ability to fight terrorism and to live in peace with Israel. Like so many experts, Netanyahu feels that the chances of an enforceable, comprehensive arrangement are low to negligible. In the meantime, as a matter of law and order, he intends to oppose illegal settlements, be they in the West Bank or among Bedouins in Sinai. His major priority would be to promote prosperity on the West Bank, creating an incentive for the Palestinians to make a commitment to peace. He notes that Palestinians in the West Bank remained calm during the fighting in Gaza and didn't engage in mass protests.

Therefore, Netanyahu will focus on improving Palestinian life by lifting roadblocks (100 so far) and reducing checkpoints (they have gone down from 50 to 15) and making other improvements on the ground for the Palestinian community. In this he is supported by dovish Israeli President Shimon Peres, who now has doubts about Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza without first having established a peaceful and democratic Palestinian party to which it could hand the territory. That Palestinian party does not yet exist.

A Palestinian state cannot be created by terrorism. It can be created through the reformation of political and economic institutions so that they reflect democracy, market economics, and real actions to confront terrorism. When there is an effective, Palestinian-based security force with counterterrorism capability in the West Bank, the Israelis will then be prepared to withdraw their defense forces and the Shin Bet from operating there. Hence the importance of the U.S. effort, led by Lt. Gen. Keith Dayton, to develop a decent Palestinian security force. The new units have been enforcing order in the cities of Jenin and Hebron, which had been basically lawless. But it is not enough to target car thieves and robbers. The critical counterterrorism ability of the Palestinian security forces is still limited; above all, they must have the will to target terrorist cells and their networks.

Two modest paramilitary forces have been trained to police crime and enforce public order, but not to uproot terror groups. In fact, the PA has increasingly offered safe haven to terror groups. Brig.-Gen. Radhi Assida, the PA National Security Forces (NSF) commander in Jenin, revealed to the Palestinian website Ma'an on January 24, 2009, that PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad's NSF had agreed to provide protection to four senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) terrorists wanted by Israel. Assida also confirmed that PIJ operatives continue to receive monthly salaries from the PA Interior Ministry, just like their colleagues in the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades.

In the interim, Israel must not wait on events. Israel would be wise (despite the risks) to allow even freer movement in the West Bank; it should help to create more jobs and a better standard of living. Yes, the West must press Israel on these issues, but it must also press the Arab states. They should underwrite the training of PA security forces and invest sensibly in housing and agriculture.

Peace will come only when the Palestinians are liberated from their age-old hatred of Israel and Jews. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called for many times, there must be teaching, preaching, and celebrating, from childhood on, that hatred, disrespect, violence, terrorism, anti-Semitism, and war against Israelis and Zionists are unacceptable. Today, it is exactly the opposite.

A great Middle East authority, Prof. Bernard Lewis, recently pointed out in Foreign Affairs how easily the West is misled. In contrast to reports in English, he writes, "the discourse in Arabic--in broadcasts, sermons, speeches, and school textbooks--is far less conciliatory, portraying Israel as an illegitimate invader that must be destroyed." Israel cannot make peace with those whose first priority is to blow up Israeli women and children and who deny the nation's right to exist. As Lewis puts it, "There is no compromise position between existence and nonexistence."

The sad but realistic fact is that we are much closer to the establishment of two Palestinian states, one in the West Bank and one in Gaza, than to reaching a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians.

Did you hear about the two policemen who stopped to help a driver stuck with a flat--and were shot to death in the head at point-blank range? Did you know about the 120-kilogram bomb planted in...
Did you hear about the two policemen who stopped to help a driver stuck with a flat--and were shot to death in the head at point-blank range? Did you know about the 120-kilogram bomb planted in...
 
Comments
1058
Pending Comments
0
iPhone App Promo

Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to

View Comments:
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next › Last » (9 pages total)
- klondiker I'm a Fan of klondiker 49 fans permalink

I don't have a personal stake in this conflict, so I like to think that I am a pretty dispassionate observer of the situation (although you might disagree with this). But, here's my take:

I visited Israel in February, and the majority of Israelis I spoke to said that they would agree to giving up complete control of West Bank and stop settlements in a heartbeat IF they could get reasonable assurance that there won't be rockets flying into Israel. This is Israelis' biggest nightmare. A rocket that is lobbed into Israel from the West Bank would almost certainly hit Tel Aviv and paralyze their only international airport, among other places. And, so, they are afraid to leave.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake Israel has made is believing that military might can solve any problem. This works in the short-term, but in the long-term this is unsustainable. There should be three pillars to their policy: diplomacy, development, and defense. Thus far, they have only focused on defense. Much more needs to be done in terms of diplomacy and development.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 04/14/2009
- shotei I'm a Fan of shotei 26 fans permalink

Finally, a balanced view of the situation. I agree with you and I think that surprisingly enough, Netanyahu might be the one to focus on development. Ever since he was campaigning, he stressed out the importance of economic development in the Palestinian territories in order to create social and poltical stability. I can only hope that after that, he can focus on diplomacy.
The big problem is that all these three pillars have to be developed simultaneously. That is probably the biggest challenge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:36 AM on 04/14/2009
- courtb I'm a Fan of courtb 19 fans permalink

Interesting. I am not a Bibi fan, but I do know he is big on the economic development aspect of dealing with the Palestinians. But I think there also has to be a level of respect and understanding of the Palestinians that his government might be incapable of giving.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 04/14/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
photo

Economic development of the Palestinian territories? What, you mean Israeli industries generously providing second-class work for Palestinians in exchange for their sovereignty? Nobody's going to buy that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 04/14/2009
photo

A Palestinian state cannot be created by terrorism.

a palestinian state will be created by the palestinians fighting for their rights, it is israel that was created by terrorism

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 04/14/2009
- mulegino I'm a Fan of mulegino 43 fans permalink

Exactly-Zuckerman writes as if the Irgun and the Stern gang, the King David Hotel, Lord Moyne, Count Folke Bernadotte, Deir Yassin, the Patria, the Lavon affair, Shabra, Shatila, Nablus, Gaza, two invasions of Lebanon, the attempted stealing of the Suez canal, the slaughter of crewmen on the U.S.S. Liberty-never existed. Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder, except in this case, and contrary to the American media's distortions, deceptions and double standards it is the Palestinians who have done far more "beholding" than the Israelis.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 04/14/2009

Israel occupies gaza, oppresses the population, builds settlements on Palestinian land and expects a positive outcome from the Palestinians? The actions of Israel demonstrate that it relies on military might and oppression­/aggressio­n as its tools for survival. It sought a provocation to attack lebanon and destroy the nations infrastructure and many innocent lives. Its message is that if you mess with Israel, we will destroy you. This policy will surely end badly for Israel for it can not continue to create so much hatred by its neighbors until finally they will rise up. What it does not seem to want to do is to negotiate with its neighbors, treat the Palestinians with respect and just maybe this will pave the way for all to live in peace and harmony.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 04/14/2009
- angler I'm a Fan of angler 4 fans permalink

"When Israel finally responded (with military restraint and humanitarian aid)"

Mort, you can't be serious.

Israel's intent in launching the Gaza invasion was to demonstrate to the world that it has both the wherewithal and the will to obliterate any entity who would dare to oppose it. This is why Israel unloaded on the captive civilian population of Gaza from the sea, air and land, so as to demonstrate its ability and readiness to inflict great suffering.

What it actually succeeding in demonstrating to the world was that it is a militaristic, expansionist, genocidal state which only considers the lives of members of its on tribe as being valuable. This is why people of the world are outraged with Israel.

Don't you get it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 AM on 04/14/2009
- skialethia I'm a Fan of skialethia 140 fans permalink
photo

So right! I too laughed when I read that line: "When Israel finally responded (with military restraint and humanitarian aid)"! Military restraint??? They kill over 1300 Palestinians and he calls that restraint??? And since when did Israel provide humanitarian aid. Much of the word tried to send convoys there which were held up at the border crossings by the Israelis!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 04/14/2009
- skialethia I'm a Fan of skialethia 140 fans permalink
photo

corr: Much of the world, not word.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 04/14/2009

I can understand your skepticism, due to the extent of the violence in Gaza. But the IDF does have standards, standards which conform to and frequently exceed the requirements of international law. What you will hear from every israeli, not just from those on the right, but from most peace groups, is that the IDF did not target civilians intentionally. What you had, I think, is a situation where justifiable (if not necessarily optimal) military policy in responding to years of attacks directed at civilians, caused great suffering. To impute the motive of "demonstrating its ability and readiness to inflict great suffering" is, I think, deeply unfair, not the least because you can't assign a singular motive to "israel" any more than you can say, accurately, that America invaded afghanistan because America wanted vengeance.

"What it actually succeeding in demonstrating to the world was that it is a militaristic, expansionist, genocidal state which only considers the lives of members of its on tribe as being valuable. This is why people of the world are outraged with Israel."

A couple things - First, all states consider the life and welfare of their citizens paramount (what's this 'tribe' business? Israel's population is 25% non-Jewish).

Second, this 'militaristic, expansionist, genocidal state' trope is wrong. Militaristic, sure. Without Israel's military it would no longer exist and most of its former citizens would be dead.

Continued in next post...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 04/14/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
photo

We have pictures and video footage from Gaza. We have witness testimony and investigative reports by international observers. We have mountains of physical evidence at this point. Nobody is going to buy the notion that the IDF has ethical standards in the face of all that. And that's disregarding what goes on in the West Bank.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 04/14/2009
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
photo

were those the standards that were applied when returning IDF soldiers were wearing T-shirts joking about killing civilians? Maybe they were the standards that allowed them to shell civilian areas and prevent medical services from aiding the wounded for days?

Yeah, standards.­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 04/14/2009

Expansioni­stic... well, only if you count the illegal building of houses in the WB as expansionistic, which doesn't really garner a whole crap ton of land, enough to label the whole state "expansionistic" (especially considering Israel has proven itself quite willing to withdraw from territory and remove settlers from illegal buildings). I think we all agree that has to end.

Oh, and 'genocidal'? really? to be frank, it's exceptionally cruel to accuse the survivors, and children of survivors of systematic genocide, of genocide, when the word cannot apply. Do you know what genocide is? It is rounding up all members of an outgroup from a village, and shooting them because of who they are. It is devising the most efficient means possible of murdering. If Israel were a genocidal state, if it had been for the past 60 years, there would be very few Palestinians today.

No, it's a state that occasionally makes mistakes. Just like every single nation has. In the main it has struggled for its survival, and it continues to face those who would do it harm.

While I say all this, I do not want to appear as if I do not care about Palestinian suffering. I do, and I wish Israel would take more concrete steps to make the lives of ordinary P's easier.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 04/14/2009
- phute I'm a Fan of phute 21 fans permalink

Surely you find it hideous though - when the persecuted are changed into persecutors to further the aim of occupying stolen lands?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 04/14/2009
- chaos4700 I'm a Fan of chaos4700 85 fans permalink
photo

You are forgetting about the settlement activity in the Golan Heights and Shebaa Farms as well. Not to mention the illegal settlements Israel "generously" dismantled in Gaza and Sinai when it they became politically expendable. Your recount of history is decidedly spotty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 04/14/2009
- leduck I'm a Fan of leduck 44 fans permalink
photo

sweet
Mort, you forgot to mention that if or when the Palestinians get their own state
That they will not have rights to the water (aquifer) under their own feet.
Most of that water goes to Israeli swimming pools
The Palestinians get the crumbs

Plus, most people know (although some ignore) the fact that the territories look like Swiss cheese.
What kind of state would that make?

I know it’s a tall order in this country, but let’s try to be balanced
Truth be told..., both sides behave bad
By resorting to terrorism, the Palestinians harm there legitimate cause.

If that’s the way the Hatfields and McCoys want to live, that’s their problem
truth be told..., both sides behave bad
By the way, I have two incredible brothers in law who are Jewish

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 04/14/2009
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
photo

Yeah, I heard about those Mort. What I'm not hearing, except in international Press like BBC, is how Israel dropped white phosphorous on civilians (one child had burning smoke coming out of a hole in her head for 3 hours) and assaulted 37% of the medical facilities in Gaza in January and killed multiple Red Crescent personnel attempting to aid wounded civilians who were left on the street to die for DAYS.

We also don't get to see the story where returning Israeli military were dancing and singing songs about killing civilians, and making jokes about how many points the small ones were worth...

sick, sick, sick people who cannot be left in charge of a major military weapons system (that they did not create or finance, btw).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:35 AM on 04/14/2009
- bbrecht I'm a Fan of bbrecht 18 fans permalink
photo

Oh boy-- where to start? The use of phosphorous weapons on innocent civilians? Does that fit your definitition of humanitarian aid? What is happening to the Palestinians is genocide. It is no different from what happened to the Native Americans here in the US-- as settler after settler came and more and more land was stolen. I don't think it makes a difference how the Palestinians behave.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 AM on 04/14/2009
photo

I like to start with Israel's unmet obligations as an *occupying power* of Gaza and the West Bank.

snip:
As an occupying power in Gaza, maintaining effective control of Gaza's territory, Israel remains responsible for the welfare of the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and is obliged to uphold international human rights law as well as the Fourth Geneva Convention on the protection of civilians. Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions (I-IV) states that "Persons taking no active part in the hostilities… shall in all circumstances be treated humanely". Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions makes clear that "It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as food-stuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works". Indiscriminate attacks on civilians, and civilian property and infrastructure are therefore strictly prohibited. However, Israel has directly targeted water and sanitation infrastructure and the CMWU reports that all basic water and sanitation infrastructure has been destroyed in areas that were subject to Israeli military attack. This includes a direct hit on the Gaza City Waste Water Treatment Plant on 10 January. On 18 January a water well was destroyed in the Abu Ghazala area of Beit Hanoun causing the death of a one and a half year old child whose family's house was located near to the well.
/snip
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/2ee9468747556b2d85256cf60060d2a6/8bff92b9a58c3a69852575770063569d!OpenDocument

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 04/14/2009
- skialethia I'm a Fan of skialethia 140 fans permalink
photo

This article is loaded with bias against Palestinians and fraught with contradiction:

1. It begins with two recent incidents of violence with no proof linking them to Palestinians.

2. He states that when Israelis are the victims of violence, this is not impartially covered in the news and sympathy for the Palestinians killed is exaggerated. What??? For decades now every single Israeli who is a victim of terrorism makes it to the news and we get every detail of the victim’s life, while dozens of Palestinians killed by Israel and thousands over the years are practically ignored by the MSM, except on the internet since the Gaza invasion.

3. He states the language of peace is eroding and blames it on the Palestinians, when Palestinians signed on to a two-state solution (Israel and Palestine) and when the Israeli government just elected is notorious for endorsing settlement expansion, has enabled and is enabling settlement expansion, and the new Foreign Affairs Minister, Avigdor Lieberman has stated that Israel is not bound by the Annapolis peace negotiations or the road map.

4. He is critical of Fatah accusing them of being “corrupt” when at least 3 Israeli PM’s have been accused of corruption and Avigdor Lieberman is already being investigated for corruption.

5. He worries Hamas might win new elections but only after he totally disparages Fatah, while he goes into two paragraphs praising the most radical right wing party ever formed in Israel.

Continued.­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 04/14/2009
photo

By way of evidence of your item 2, if I had the chance, I would like to ask Mort on national television, "How many Israeli civilians were killed by rockets in the past year, and how many Gazan civilians were killed by the Israeli army between 5 November 2008 and 19 January 2009?"

The ratio was about 100:1 and Hamas only began firing rockets last summer after Israel _illegally_ blockaded food into and out of Gaza, in violation of their cease-fire, yet the United States' corporatist press has never addressed the fact that Israel's response was "disproportionate," which is a war crime.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 04/14/2009
- courtb I'm a Fan of courtb 19 fans permalink

Actually, rockets first began falling into Israel in 2001. They increased drastically after Israel pulled out of Gaza, a few years before the blockade began. Between 2001 and 2005, almost 4,000 rockets hit Israel. Between the 2005 disengagement and the battle of Gaza in 2007, after which the blockade began, almost 2,000 rockets and mortars were fired into Israel.

Yes, not many Israelis have died due to rockets, thank goodness. But that is due to the vigilance of the Israeli gov't, who built their people bomb shelters and early warning systems to try and prevent deaths? Would you have preferred there to be children in all the playgrounds and classrooms that have been hit?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 04/14/2009
- jeanrenoir I'm a Fan of jeanrenoir 110 fans permalink

Face it, Mort. Israel is now literally as helpless to control the dialogue about Israel and Palestine in America as it has been for decades in Europe. The cat of reality is out of the bag and onto the Net, which is a lot more powerful now than US News, or the Times, or Fox, or anything else, for that matter. The days of the party line are over. Israel and its supporters in America had better act accordingly, or they will all be casualties of YouTube.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 04/14/2009
- almazza98 I'm a Fan of almazza98 15 fans permalink

Isn't advanced technology a beautiful thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 04/14/2009
- skialethia I'm a Fan of skialethia 140 fans permalink
photo

6. Finally, "The sad but realistic fact is that we are much closer to the establishment of two Palestinian states, one in the West Bank and one in Gaza, than to reaching a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinia­ns." The only ones who will make the two-state solution impossible are the 300,000 plus settlers on the West Bank who refuse to leave and are terrorizing Palestinians whose land they stole!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 AM on 04/14/2009
- shotei I'm a Fan of shotei 26 fans permalink

Oh boy, skialethia, you seriously need to read some more. I will try to answer, probably in vain:
1) the killing of the policemen was directly linked to Palestinians and there was never an incident of a bomb placed by a Jew in a place popular amongst Jews. All the other thousand times that happened were related to Arab terrorists.
2) That's not what he says. He says that these incidents go unnoticed and even acknowledges that the American media is pro-Israel.
3) If you want to talk about Oslo, do some research on how many terrorist attacks followed Oslo and let's talk about who killed that agreement at the first place.
4) This is the difference. In Israel, there are instruments of accountability to which all politicians are liable. That is why the Israeli judicial system does not spare anyone for political reasons. When proved, the appropriate measures will be taken (if that was not the case, why publicize the investigation anyways?)
5) The author is not against Fatah. He says they need to be more transparent in order to strenghten its image among Palestinians (hence, the importance of economy). Hamas is no partner for peace and never wanted to be. Read its Charter and you'll see (I hope you're not that blind).
6) The settlers cannot be blamed for internal Palestinian rivalries. The settlements must freeze (and Netanyahu is willing to do so), but they have nothing to do with the internal rifts of Palestinian factions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 AM on 04/14/2009

I hope that Israel stop being a belligerent nation, unable to live peacefully with its neighbors. No amount of false narrative can convince me otherwise. Just a world wide poll alone, Israel is the least like nation, and it's image is a war monger.

Shame that they subject their children to a lifetime of war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 AM on 04/14/2009
photo

Israel has a military-industrial complex problem very similar to the one in the United States, except that theirs has grown like a cancer since just 1995, whereas we have had six decades now since Eisenhower's warning to learn all about ours. Both countries have a noisy minority who disproportionately represent the "military contractors" (more correctly, mercenary corporations) in politics, and who get their policies dictated to them by warmonger boards of directors of those companies. Their call theirs "Zionists" and we call ours "neo-conservatives" but the distinctions pretty well stop there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 04/14/2009

Thanks.

'am Generation Y - mid 20's. I, as well as my family chose to get involve, though voices lost in the wilderness, overpowered by the noisy minorities of mercenary corporations and leaders who by nature as war mongers. No one seems to listen.

I have a sister in law of Jewish decent, whom my brother and the entire family loved so much. My brother and his wife have 2 children, raised both Jewish and Catholic faith. We do not see conflict of faith.

It pains all of us, specially my sister in law, not to visit her family. All of her brothers, cousins and uncles are in the army. Decades of fighting and deaths. At one point in her life, she like many of her country men served in the army. Lucky for her, she had a scholarship as cellular biologist where she met my brother who is also a cellular biologist.

We went to DC for the President's inauguration, and for the first time, she envisioned distant hope that her native country will one day enjoy and get along with its neighbor, she can visit her family, and bring their 2 sons to Israel for a vist. That hope is fading.

How can a country condemn its citizens and it it future children to a lifetime of war ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 04/14/2009

It's sad that when I read about refugees in the Middle East only the Palestinians are ever mentioned. Most people don't know that over 900,000 Jews living in North Africa and the Middle East for generations were thrown out by the Arab governments after the establishment of Israel .Prior to their eviction they were subject to severe government edicts and anti- Jewish riots and were forced to forfeit their homes and businesses. (Most of these Jews escaped to the Middle East in the fifteenth century from Spain and Portugal because of the Spanish Inquisition ) My family was one of those evicted although they were good Egyptians (not citizens because Jews were not allowed to be citizens). My entire family was allowed to take only one suitcase each and no money or valuables and had to leave EVERYTHING behind. We became refugees that were forgotten and never written about. Only in Israel did we find refuge and started over. Why haven't the Arab governments done the same for the Palestinians whose numbers in 1948 were much smaller? They have more land and resources certainly. You should know that the majority of those Middle Eastern Jewish refugees are now also living in Israel and we won't let the Arabs throw us out again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 AM on 04/14/2009
- skialethia I'm a Fan of skialethia 140 fans permalink
photo

The Spanish Inquisition was 530 years ago!!! Get with the present! The majority of Israelis come from Eastern European countries and have no ties whatsoever with the Israelites and they are oppressing a people, the Palestinians who go back thousands of years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 AM on 04/14/2009
- courtb I'm a Fan of courtb 19 fans permalink

Get with the present! You see, my present is since I've been born. So anything that happened before 1985...doe­sn't matter anymore. Sounds silly, doesn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 AM on 04/14/2009

It is a fact that in order to understand the present one must also understand the past. My family was expelled from Egypt in 1948 because they were Jews along with almost a million more from other Arab countries. The Jewish people were in Israel long before the Romans named it Palestine (after the Philistines in order to obliterate any Jewish claim to the land.) and long before Islam existed .Most of the Arabs came to Israel in the twentieth century from surrounding Arab countries for employment opportunities after the Jews started to refurbish the land- before then it was sparsely populated- see Mark Twain's writings about his visit to Palestine.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 AM on 04/14/2009
- ZenJu I'm a Fan of ZenJu 40 fans permalink

False. The vast majority of Jews have ties to the ancient Israelites going back thousands of years. The majority of us are genetically tied to the Middle East, where we are related to--guess who?--our Arab neighbours. That inlcudes Jews whose ancestors passed through Eastern Europe. We BELONG in the neighbourhood. As a Jewish Israeli, I celebrate my links to our Arab cousins. Hebrew and Arabic are kindred languages. There is much that we can share. I look forward to the day when Israel and Palestine can live together, working for the common good, to the mutual benefit of each. People like you will not stop us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 04/14/2009

Read this document that was issued by the Arab League during that period. It proves that the Arab states orchestrated the persecution and planned expulsion of their Jews. As someone whose family was persecuted as a result of this decree sorry but I cannot "get with the present".

http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/pics/112.png

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 04/14/2009
- ZenJu I'm a Fan of ZenJu 40 fans permalink

What a refreshing change, to hear the facts laid out accurately. Thank you, Mort Zuckerman, for this rare article on the actual state of affairs in the Middle East. Sadly, you will find that many of the comments here will reflect the profound ignorance and and anti-Israeli bias that tint so many comments posted on any article about the subject.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:04 AM on 04/14/2009
- phute I'm a Fan of phute 21 fans permalink

Please enlighten us as to just how you know the facts have been laid out accurately.

I

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 AM on 04/14/2009
- shotei I'm a Fan of shotei 26 fans permalink

If ZenJu allows me, someone has finally spoken about the responsibilities and duties of the Palestinian people. BOTH SIDES must create realistic changes towards peace. All I see here is how Israel is evil, but nothing is said about the Palestinian's wrongdoing. Finally someone laid out the facts accurately. Zuckerman spoke out the truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:11 AM on 04/14/2009
- jeanrenoir I'm a Fan of jeanrenoir 110 fans permalink

Israel, like South Africa during apartheid, is indeed in a tragic pickle now. Sure there are "terrorists" constantly threatening to kill Israelis, who, as a matter of national policy, have systematically colonized Palestinian land since 1967. The record of the colonial Israeli army in Gaza is now exposed for all the world to see, by the soldiers themselves, just like the record of the American army in Vietnam. Israel hasn't a friend in the world except America. Many Israelis will blame this fact purely on anti-semitism. Their Europeans enemies will reply that they are simply repulsed by an unjust and anachronistic form of Western imperialism in Israel which, now that apartheid is gone, exists nowhere else in the world, at least not in the direct form in which we see it bloodily operating in Israel. Olmert rightly observed in the fall that Israel MUST give back the West Bank and East Jerusalem to the Palestinians and make peace soon, or Israel is truly doomed. It's important to recall that Pakistan hates Israel at least as much as Iran does, and Pakistan already has more than enough nukes to vaporize Israel in toto, if it falls to the Taliban and Al Qaeda because of American neglect of them both during the Iraq War under Bush. American anger at Israel is steadily building, as any reader of the Net well knows. Let's hope Israel doesn't fan the flames of this anger by bombing Iran and gutting the world economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:09 AM on 04/14/2009
- courtb I'm a Fan of courtb 19 fans permalink

Wow. First of all, the "expose" in regards to Gaza was complete hearsay a rumour and has yet to actually be proven to be factual. Considering the soldiers themselves even admitted they did not, in fact, see any of the improper shooting and behavior. The NY Times article might be an interesting read for you: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/world/middleeast/28israel.html?_r=2&hp.

Second of all, if your complaint is the idea of Western imperialism, boy do you have a shock coming in to you. Hamas and radical Islam is not a break from imperialism-it's just a different form of it. Colonialism is not just property of the west, as is evidenced by the history of the Ottoman Empire. Islamic imperialism is very present in today's global world and it's naive to think it is not. I can write more on this if people are interested­-otherwise­, maybe try reading Efraim Karsh's book.

Finally, I'm curious about this American anger that is steadily building. According to Gallup, numbers haven't changed with 59% supportive of Israel and 18% supportive of the Palestinians. I'm a reader of the "net" and I know that the people who post on sites such as HuffPo are a vocal minority. I have to remind myself of that, or else I begin to despair for the future of the liberal movement in the US.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 AM on 04/14/2009
- toadicux I'm a Fan of toadicux 2 fans permalink

I'm glad to know our tax dollars are being used to prevent the resurgence of the Ottoman Empire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 AM on 04/14/2009
photo

Really, it isn't about being against Israel or for the Palestinians. It's about fairness and justice. It's about the suffering of the Palestinians. It's about the rise of Islamic extremism.

We want justice for the Palestinians. That means a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.

If Israel does the right thing, then Islamic extremism will lose its main recruiting tool. That's good for everyone. Then Israel can get on with being the important, progressive country it should be - a shining example to the rest of the world. But until this is sorted out, I cannot support Israel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 04/14/2009
- max08 I'm a Fan of max08 48 fans permalink

Give me a break.

From yesterady's Fincancial Times:

"Taking the stage this month at the handover ceremony in Jerusalem, [Lieberman] delivered a scathing critique of the previous government’s efforts to strike a peace deal with the Palestinians to create an independent state.

Although the two-state solution dominates diplomacy to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict, now more than 60 years old, Mr Lieberman asked: “Does anyone think that concessions and constantly saying, ‘I am prepared to concede’, and using the word ‘peace’ will lead to anything? No, that will just invite pressure and more and more wars.” Officials and diplomats were shocked. “We all felt that we are in for one hell of a ride,” says one official present. Mr Lieberman “was effectively saying: ‘I am exactly the guy you thought I was.’ ”"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 04/14/2009

My sister in law is Jewish, and so are my 2 nephews. They are not returning back to Isreal and let my 2 young nephews be in the army for all their lives. Israel must learn to exist with its neighbors. It's leaders and their war mongering generals are the root of the problem.

My heart feels for my sister in law and my brother. Specially my 2 nephews who will never step on that land until the fighting is over. It's time to make peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 04/14/2009
- ZenJu I'm a Fan of ZenJu 40 fans permalink

"War mongering"? I'm a Jewish Israeli and I know of VERY few who desire war. On the contrary, the overwhelming majority here want a real, lasting peace with ALL our neighbours. The trouble is, the feeling isn't mutual. Like many Israelis, I too would GLADLY yield most all of the "West Bank" to the Arabs and even share Jerusalem as a capital. One day, I hope that we can all live together and work for common cause. Until that day, I fear that our tiny little nation must remain prepared if we are to survive. As the saying goes, "If the Arabs put down their weapons, there would be no violence; if the Israelis put down their weapons, there would be no Israel." Trite, but quite true. That is the sad reality of our history here in our homeland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 AM on 04/14/2009
photo

Trite, and untrue. Everything was going well, until Israel illegally blockaded Gazans' water; only _then_ did rockets begin firing into Israel -- WHEN YOU STARTED STARVING THEM.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 AM on 04/14/2009
- ariveria I'm a Fan of ariveria 16 fans permalink

the palestians have never had a desire for a state. they were given one in 1948 and refused it. the never asked for one till after the war of 1967 and then only a front.

gaza could have been a model of a palestinian state instead it is a armed terroist camp supported by the un. why should they improve their economy when the un will give them food, clothing and provide cover.

the only goal of the palestinians is the destruction of israel. if that ever happens there still will not be a palestianian state. the land will be grapped by egypt jordan and syria. never again will you hear a call for a palestian state

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 04/14/2009
- max08 I'm a Fan of max08 48 fans permalink

"the palestians have never had a desire for a state. they were given one in 1948 and refused it. the never asked for one till after the war of 1967 and then only a front. "

What bunk. Palestine was a country with its own passport before 1948. All Jews who lived there pre-1948 held Palestinian passports.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 AM on 04/14/2009
- courtb I'm a Fan of courtb 19 fans permalink

Are you sure? Palestine was a mandated territory-not an independent country. And I'm almost positive that there were no "Palestinian" passports that existed before very recently. There were papers that people had to carry to prove they legally had a right to be in the region, but I don't think they were passports. There were also British passports that said "Palestine" but those were still British passports.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 AM on 04/14/2009
- pakiman I'm a Fan of pakiman 8 fans permalink

listen to yourself..­."given a state?" it's their freaking land!! their nation was stolen from them...the­y don't need to be given anything from anyone....­freedom is never given, it is taken....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 AM on 04/14/2009

There were few independent nations in the region at that time, only colonial provincial entities. Israel and Palestine were "given" to the people who lived there by order of the UN in the same sense that Egypt and Jordan were "given" to their people because the colonial powers realized they could not retain those territories, both because the people who lived there resisted their rule, and, after the war, the colonial powers were powerless. It's accurate to say they were given, because at the time, wrong as it was, the people in those countries did not have representative rule (some of them still do not).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 04/14/2009
- phute I'm a Fan of phute 21 fans permalink

How ungrateful of the Palestinians - and what story book did you get this lie from?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:42 AM on 04/14/2009
- shotei I'm a Fan of shotei 26 fans permalink

This lie from? What lie? In November 1947, the UN passed a resolution calling for the creation of 2 states. Jews immediately accepted its share while Arabs denied the other side of any right to a land of their own. Then, from 48 to 67, there was no Palestinian uprisal calling for independence from Jordan and Egypt, none whatsoever. All efforts were used in plans to destroy Israel.
Finally, when Israel withdrew from Gaza, the Israeli government states its willing to talk to Hamas if they recognized Israel's right to exist. If that happened, Israel said, air and sea control would progressively be given to the Palestinians. Hamas' response came in the form of thousands of Qassams.
Why is any pro-Israel argument a lie to you, mr. Phute? It appears to me you're in denial.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 04/14/2009
Page: « First ‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next › Last » (9 pages total)
Comments are closed for this entry

 You must be logged in to comment. Log in  or connect with 

Connect

 

svn