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How Do You Say "Overcollection" in Farsi?
One of the surest clues to the abuse of power is when state officials start inventing new words to describe their own actions.
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Most Popular FISA Stories
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MARTIN - Get with the program, its the same constitution that allowed your future generations savings to be transfered to Haliburton and Exxon, murdered over a million Iraqis, lets Kissenger walk free, assassinated Allende and Lumumba, distributes weapons of mass destruction to undemocratic states and others that refuse to obey U.N. resolutions.
There is hardly a U.S. president alive who should not be infront of a human rights court and you think this is the issue?
You think the last straw is FISA? Dont you remember the Rio Summit chaired by Gorbachev when Bush Snr refused to protect the environment, later Kyoto, not to mention the ban on Land Mines.
We are talking about a country that elected George W Bush, TWIICE!!!! and you are proposing a sane argument to the electorate?????????????????????????? I tell you what, pose your argument to Paris Hilton and if she gets it I will follow you around the world.
Michale,
You probably should have stuck to your technique of evasion and obfuscation, because I literally destroyed you in this debate.
:D If you say so...
Simply because you refuse to accept the facts, does not destruction make.. :D
But, I do appreciate the opportunity to prove how utterly ignorant you are of the issues facing us.
Please don't be offended by this.
There is no shame in not knowing everything..
I am going to move on to other commentaries now. I'll be generous to you and let you have the last word.
It's the least I can do after so utterly destroying your credibility...
Michale.....
I'll let others decide who won this debate, suffice to say you utterly failed to answer, or even address the bulk of my arguments.
Hanging your entire case on the concept that international and domestic communications cannot be separated, even if true (though you failed to provide a single fact that proves this point) fails to address the 4th amendment violations that occur AFTER the communications have been "flagged;" when they are REVIEWED (a.k.a. searched) by a GOVERNMENT AGENT, all prior to a "Judge" issuing a "warrant," based on "probable cause," which "particularly describes the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Additionally, you COMPLETELY IGNORED my points about potential abuses. Why? Well, because those threats are very real and you have no answer that could alleviate these concerns.
Next, you contradicted yourself several times by claiming only a "computer" analyzes the communication, when earlier you admitted that once a computer finishes violating your 4th amendment rights, having then "flagged" your communications based on some words (chosen, no doubt by a covert government agent), it makes its way into the hands of a government employee (yes, a human being) who studies (a.k.a. searches) that communication without due process as described above, in conflict with the 4th amendment.
The ACLU position on the new FISA bill:
The FAA violates the Fourth Amendment because it allows the government to gobble up the constitutionally protected communications of American citizens and residents without getting individualized warrants, and without specifying the time, place or length of the surveillance, and not specifying how the info gathered will be disseminated, or how long it"ll be kept. (You know, the who/what/where/when/why.)
The FAA also violates the First Amendment by chilling lawful expressive speech without adequate justification by authorizing the government to intercept constitutionally protected communications without judicial oversight.
The challenged law violates the principle of separation of powers by allowing the government to continue surveillance activities even if the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has deemed those activities illegal.
Next stop.... court.
@tommybones
}}}}}Okay, so your entire argument is based on a lie or ignorance.
No, it's based on the facts...
It's simply NOT possible to differentiate between American communications and other communications without any sort of monitoring or analyzing of the communication itself.
These are the facts whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
This is why I said at the very beginning of this long running marathon debate that FISA is ill-equipped for CT operations.
Michale.....
Yeah, you keep on saying that you have facts to back you up, even though every time that we ask you for some you come back with OPINION, and then when we call you out on that you say that you OPINION is a fact!
@tommybones
OK, let's approach this from a different perspective..
It's a fact that telecommunications are world-wide.
There is no American communication lines and British communication lines and German communication lines.
It's worldwide...
This being the case, it's IMPOSSIBLE to know what kinds of communications are being monitored until they are analyzed...
Using your reasoning, because communications MIGHT be American, intelligence authorities cannot monitor ANY communications.
That is a fallacy that does not take into account the very real dangers that exist in today's world.
Michale.....
No. Once again you are playing word games.
The U.S. government certainly can isolate communications coming into or going out of the United States. The idea that we all lose our 4th amendment protections merely because we don't know how many of those communications are from foreigners abroad to foreigners stateside has no basis in the Constitution.
}}}}The U.S. government certainly can isolate communications coming into or going out of the United States.
No, it cannot.
It's THAT simple...
Michale.....
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