I have questions and doubts about this incident.
1)We didn't see the whole context. It looked to me like the guy had done something to attract the attention of security BEFORE they moved in to bodily remove him. Wonder what that was?
2)In some of the videos, the guy was rambling from one topic to another, making comments rather than questions, asking several questions. For all of you who have never taken part in occasions of this nature, that's at the very least rude and inconsiderate, if not against forum rules designed to give as wide a sector of the public as possible a voice and a way to participate. Usually, lots of audience members have questions, and you take turns asking ONE QUESTION per person. This fellow seemed more about the attention he got than hearing Kerry's answer(s).
3)Anyone who's studied violence, as we hope police and security personnel do regularly, knows there is a small subset of the population who seek attention and notoriety via attacks on celebrities and high-profile individuals, who are essentially sitting ducks in public gatherings of this sort. Something about the videos of this incident--perhaps the rambling, attention-seeking behavior--- brings that to my mind.
4)The little I know about video recording tells me that video clips can be misleading, regarding sound quality especially. Was the incident as loud and disruptive as some of the videos makes it seem, or did it seem more like a minor disturbance to most of the audience and to the speaker, who kept speaking?
5) And, finally, what's up with some of those videos, anyway? It's almost as if those wielding cameras (maybe the screamer??)were on standby, ready to get it on film! Sorry, something abt these videos just reminds me of that TV show about pranks, called "Punked".
Not to defend cops or condone police brutality which I do think exists and needs our attention, but I just smell a setup here.
Kerry Should be Ashamed, and the Cop Who Tased Andrew Meyer Should be Jailed
By now I'm sure you've seen the videos of University of Florida student Andrew Meyer being attacked and tasered by university police at a John Kerry speaking event. If not, here's one, here's another, and here's another.
The videos (reminiscent of the nasty video from last year showing UCLA student Mostafa Tabatabainejad getting tortured with a taser by seriously fucked up campus police) show Meyer asking a series of questions -- which aren't particularly combative, although his tone is -- before his mic is turned off and the police officers inexplicably grab him from behind. He tries to pull away, raising his arms to show he's not threatening them, but they drag him out, pin him to ground as he yells "What did I do?" and says he'll walk out if they let him, and then they tase him as he screams in pain. One of the videos shows them taking him downstairs and accusing him, insanely, hilariously, of "inciting a riot." Downstairs he gets even more agitated, saying they want to "kill" him and give him to "the government." It sounds a little nuts, but at that point, you would be scared and furious, too.
Three things I felt when I watched these videos (about a half hour ago at the time I'm typing this):
First, Meyer is being kind of alarming and weirdly noisy, but not inappropriate. It's really odd how the police try to stop him almost immediately. As one of the videos shows, Kerry pointed to him and indicated that he should ask his question... he's not speaking out of line. I wonder about the context here. Had something happened between Meyer and the police earlier? Is it just that he exceeded a one minute time limit -- that's why he was attacked?
Second, John Kerry did not handle this well at all. I liked him all right before -- I voted for him, but what were the alternatives? -- but now I really dislike the man. His behavior here is pathetic. Listen to him droning sonorously on in the background as a guy is dragged down the aisles and pinned the ground. He does say something like, "Officers, can we--" but then trails off ineffectually... and you can also hear him make what sounds like a joke about Meyer: "...unfortunately he's not available to come up here and swear me in as President..." At that point, fair enough, maybe it didn't seem as bad from the stage as it looks on the video. But then the guy is screaming in pain, and Kerry is still droning on, not agitated, nothing. He should have gotten off the stage and told the cops to get the hell off that guy. It's not what a politician would do, but it's what a fucking man would do.
And third, the police officers in this video are absolute scum. They should all be fired, and the one who used the taser should be put in jail. It was bizarre and irrational for them to attack Meyer, a display of utterly unprovoked violence. The sheer brazenness of it, in front of an auditorium and multiple cameras, chills me. You can't go to a microphone and question an elected official (and again, there was nothing abusive or even particularly combative about these questions) without fear of being dragged off and tased? It's heartening that some audience members followed the police downstairs, telling them to stop and assuring Meyer that they would testify in his behalf -- but frankly, as far as I'm concerned, people watching this happen a few feet away would be justified in defending the victim from the officers with the use of any weapon available. The use of tasers on handcuffed prisoners, particularly when, like Meyer and Mostafa Tabatabainejad, the prisoner has done absolutely nothing wrong and is unarmed, is straight torture. You can't stand around and watch some innocent guy get tortured by the police. You ought to do whatever you can to make it stop.
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Interesting bit of info on the guy...
http://www.attytood.com/2007/09/meet_the_future_savior_of_jour_1.html
Poor innocent student, my ass. He was an attention hound determined to provoke an incident for attention.
Please. The little drama queen found out what happens when you start to jump around, yell and resist when the cops grab you.
Next time perhaps he will STFU and sit down.
The crowd just sitting there as those events unfolded must be what it looked like when the Germans did nothing as the Gestapo hauled people away... Chilling!
Anyone who does not condemn the actions of those campus cops does not deserve to live in America. They should go to Uzbekistan and spend their days shitting in a trench giving the fascist salute to a Communist!
Kerry might have spoken up more convincingly. But he might not have wished to. I have noted that many politicians "support" causes but do little or nothing for them. I think answering hard questioins is a good way to show who you are. Few like to see damaging truths about themselves or those they hold allegiance to. So there are few places one can go where there is no objectionable censoeship. Name one if you can. By the way, it won't Huffington bloggers.
So Kerry was no better nor any worse than our heroes here.
there is no justifiable reason to TASE a person who has 6 cops on top of him.
none.
this kid may be inconsiderate, a jerk, a rabble-rouser who cut the line, but the officers here are grossly out-of-line and also pathetic. have they not been trained to escort a rowdy 21-year old from a classroom without bringing him to the ground, let-alone tasing the kid?
it wasn't long ago that i was bouncer at a college bar and regularly "walked" belligerent, drunk young men, sometimes whole groups of them, and i've never had to take a kid to the ground, especially not with the support of five other people and certainly without handcuffs or a friggin' taser.
and i agree with Nick, Kerry proved himself to be a real pussy here. (please don't tase me for saying so Arianna).
You'll only be tased if you mention Skull & Bones.
It would be unwise, illegal, and not evidence of being a "real man", to interrupt law enforcement officers in the execution of their duty, particularly in regard to an event that a person did not closely witness. It appears that Senator Kerry kept calm and tried to keep the audience calm while law enforcement did its job. The actions of the officers may or may not have been justified. I expect that we do not know the whole story, but the argument that this video reflects negatively upon Senator Kerry in any way is asinine.
Even when people are in the wrong, it seems police always use more force than necessary to subdue an individual.
We have all seen the tapes of people with their hands up, willing to submit to the police, when the police (always more than one) run in, slam them to the ground (cutting their faces) 3 police hold them down (knee in the back - intentional pain) while 2 more cuff them. All this while the person is not resisting at all.
Even when people resist, is it necessary to use a weapon when it's 5 police against one unarmed person?
Police need to keep the control of a situation, but to many times there is an overreaction by police, and true police brutality.
"We have all seen the tapes of people with their hands up, willing to submit to the police, when the police (always more than one) run in, slam them to the ground (cutting their faces) 3 police hold them down (knee in the back - intentional pain) while 2 more cuff them. All this while the person is not resisting at all."
Yes, we have all see that. But this kid was not just laying down, he was resisting. I'm not saying the taser was justified. But if you're going to resist the police, that is what's going to happen to you. He was being beligerent and rude, all while resisting arrest.
If you're under arrest, SHUT UP and let them take you. If the kid had calmed down, it would have never happened.
There were 5 police on him. They should be trained well enough to physically cuff and shackle him if necessary.
If there were no taser, would it be ok to beat him half to death, or shoot him?
Common sense is knowing the right amount of force necessary. To me, the videos show more force than necessary, was used.
Is my question legitimate? Even if resisting, is the use of a weapon always necessary? It seems it's automatic to the police, which is a policy of overreaction, to me.
"...frankly, as far as I'm concerned, people watching this happen a few feet away would be justified in defending the victim from the officers with the use of any weapon available."
Yeah! That's the ticket! Stop violence with violence!
Yeah, right! Then the drawing of guns would be justifiable to the police.
I'm sorry, but in this case, and even more so in the case of Mostafa Tabatabainejad, I think use of force by civilians against the officers would have been justified.
So it's wrong for police officers to use measured force to subdue an agitated and potentially violent man, but it would be justifiable for a crowd to use violence against police officers?
What an interesting and convenient moral code you've constructed yourself!
This reminds me of something my parents, who were in college in the late 60's, said to me when I headed off to college: "There's a reason we called them pigs."
Is it just me, or does it seem like campus cops (and meter maids, for that matter) seem to have some inadequacy issues? Like they're pissed off that they couldn't make the cut to be real cops?
"It's really odd how the police try to stop him almost immediately."
He'd cut to the front of the line.
Kerry has stated that he didn't see the guy get tasered and has denounced the police doing so.
Nobody saw him tasered (at least not in any of the videos on the web).
Please! The police didn't intervene because of anything he said, they were standing right behind him before he even said a word! That kind of suggests he did something to draw their attention prior to airing any opinion, doesn't it?
Once he did start speaking he became visibly agitated and began ranting - both red flags that a person may be about to turn violent. When the police intervened, he became belligerent and tried to pull away from them, validating their concerns. As they subdued him, he played to the audience like a soccer player trying to draw a penalty.
Oh yeah, I heard him claim he was being tased, and for all I know, he may have been, but there's no taser visible in any of the footage I've seen on the web.
Basically, it looks like the guy is an attention hound. He went to a public forum and acted like an ass just for attention. When he got the attention, he hammed it up for more attention and so he could act like a free speech martyr so he could pick-up credulous coeds at the next kegger.
Congrats, you gave a Pauly Shore wannabe his fifteen minutes of celebrity!
Well said. Plus, please note that a tased person is totally confused and unable to stand up, much less scream that he is being tased.
Why does one become a police officer? Most would probably say to serve their community. I have a different opinion. I believe that people who feel powerless in their lives seek to have power over others. In other words, they are bullies. There is no room for compromise, you either do what they say or are beaten and sent to jail. It's the perfect fit for our new facist dictatorship. I'm really surprised they didn't shoot the poor boy. After all, a dead suspect can't sue the department, can he? The police are thugs and criminals with licences to kill and steal. I view them as I would any other terrorists, with fear and loathing.
hopeless -- I couldn't agree more. I live in a bedroom community of about 40,000, and if there is a male officer on our force taller than 5'6", I haven't seen him. The "them-us" mentality so prevalent in American law enforcement today is down right scary to me, and I'm a 54 year old widow. I'd rather face a mugger than a cop.
Kerry could have done better by this whole escapade, no doubt, but my question is "why does should the cop go to jail"? Punnishment sure, but since we're not in danger of this guy going around hurting people, let's get over the mentality that craves seeing those we don't like (even if we don't actually know them) to suffer physical discomfort for our satisfaction. We know it doesn't act as a deterrent for this sort of excitement driven assault, but here's something that does and will. Make him clean public restrooms in an orange suite while he retires to his home for 10 hours a day wearing an monitoring device. If he's incalcitrant, the next step should be a bare-assed caning on the steps of the courthouse, followed by more toilet. Now that's the kind of peer pressure that actually does work for those of us who have a normally socialized mentality. Those with abnormal mentality, the pathologic...well, they by definition are sick and so they need help and while incarcerated but torture in prison doesn't do much except to perpetuate its angry violent itself.
More public service, less imprisonment.
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Posted September 18, 2007 | 01:11 PM (EST)