Is Obama Man Enough To Be a Feminist Too?
In the vitriol over primacy claims to victimhood between females and blacks, we see our two candidates draining the pustulous boil of the once-silent liberal majority. That in the end, is going to be a good thing. It might not get either of them elected against the rich white guy with the snappin' salute.
Then again, it just might.
The kids recently pulled my junior high school yearbooks off the book shelf. Ellis Junior High, 1974, was the kind of mixed-race, mixed-class public school I don't think exists anymore. Hard by the crumble-down projects in Elgin, Illinois, it served black and Latino kids on welfare, and lower middle class white kids like me, but was close enough to country club suburbia to draw students who fox-hunted and would soon head off to East Coast prep schools. The black guys came to school with picks in their huge Afros, and joints in their pockets, and we danced with them to Bootsy's Rubber Band, in parentless, pot-scented, subsidized living rooms.
We never imagined that in our lifetime, we would someday be competing for the spoils of dying-Empire America.
Looking at those yearbooks, I realized I have no idea what happened to any of those young black men. Did they get lucky, draw the affirmative action straw and get into private colleges and law school, get promoted up the EEOC ranks of a multi-national? Or, are they delivering mail, pounding nails, in jail?
Whenever I start to think about the competing victimhood claims between blacks and women, I think about those guys. The fact is, for all the "glass ceiling" and sexual harassment crap I endured, those guys started off a long ways behind where I was.
Like others (including Erica Jong, under attack on this page right now for referring to Obama as a boy) I think Obama looks boyish. And by that I mean young - not "bwah!" With his infectious grin and stick-out ears, he looks like a kid, and that's a good thing and a bad thing. I like that he's my age, he's new and fresh and he's going to negotiate with our enemies (yes! Long overdue!), say things the old fogeys would never say, and try new ways of doing. But he doesn't exactly look grizzled or "seasoned," and it's not because of the color of his skin. As we all know, in our generation, fifty is going to be the new forty.
Like many women, I feel the visceral draw to vote for a female. The nasty sexist crap Clinton has had to endure only makes me want to support her, even though I don't even like her, and I don't think she's a good leader. She doesn't have that warm, follow-me, sun-god quality that leaders in a democracy must have. In politics personality does matter, and it doesn't matter how many disastrous frat boys we elect, that'll never change.
I have a white female friend so passionately supportive of HRC that she screams the Tina Fey line "bitch is the new black" after a few glasses of wine at dinner. And accuses me of being a bad mother and sister for not feeling the pain of our not getting a female president elected this time around.
The fact is, as the UN reported some years back, women world-wide are five hundred years from parity with men. So why should we expect to get a female president right now? Furthermore, and not to make the perfect the enemy of the good, this particular female is not the best candidate anyway - she de facto offends many working women because, even though she did work herself, she really did get to where she is thanks to her husband. And, as has been repeated countless times, she's playing the game the old way.
She's phony Beatlemania in the age of the Clash.
That said, it would be nice to see some glimmer of feminism coming out of our presumptive black male candidate. I'd like to know what he thinks of OJ Simpson, for example. Would he, law professor, stand up in front of a black crowd and admit that he thinks OJ got away with murdering a white woman - unlike the countless black males who actually didn't murder the white woman, but were hanged anyway? In all cases, remember, the woman was actually dead.
More importantly, will Obama repudiate the misogynistic undertone in rap music, the tidal wave of bitch and ho vulgarity that does nothing to move young black (and white) women an inch closer to parity with men?
Calling female reporters "sweetie" is not - ahem - a step in the right direction.
Every day in America a woman gets the crap beat out of her by a boyfriend, every other day, in New York anyway, a man kills his wife or girlfriend. That's feminism 101, friends, it's where we really are on a planet where whole nations can still deny women the right to drive, use birth control or go to school, and force them to wear black blankets over their heads.
All we can do is hope this new kind of man leader cares enough to speak about it.
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We'd all be better informed and better off if candidates discussed issues and policy rather than individual crimes and cases, OJ or otherwise.
P.S. I love you line about phony Beatlemania in the age of the Clash!
Electing the wrong woman for President will do more damage than not electing a woman for President. When the right woman comes along, she'll get elected. There is no doubt in my mind. Electing the wrong woman will set women back indefinitely.
Hillary Clinton is greedy, unprincipled and self-serving. Male or female, we need to get away from electing this type of person to the any leader position, especially as President of the United States. This is why Obama has appeal.
Michelle Obama is a strong woman, that is obvious, and because it is obvious, it speaks directly to the fact that her husband respects women as equals. Otherwise, he would have married a submissive woman.
Exactly. I don't get it with this folks who are sooo ardent for any female prez that they cannot figure out that this woman (HRC) is FAR from a perfect candidate.
And they talk about "Obamabots" annointing Barack as a saint. Seems to me they were projecting a St. Hillary fetish because they won't admit that she has any flaws, let alone the obvious ones. And Tuzla is just par for the course regarding 'em
If personality is critical in politics then the fact that for me (and others I know) Obama's image is that of a weak man is a problem for his campaign. On a gut level I don't feel he's a take charge kind of guy no matter how tough talking he tries to be. When Bill Clinton first ran for president, like him or not, no one could deny he oozed charisma and strength. Obama's boyishness works for him and against him. It appeals to those who like their men non-threatening but for those of us who prefer our commander-in-chief to convincingly and effectively command, he falls short.
All her tough talk and "testicles" she failed miserably running her campaign. Whatthehell do you want him to do? He is who he is. He could say he would "obliterate" Iran and talk the talk. It didn't do her much good. Tough talk, Bush talk. Look where it got us?
He is a real leader and doesn't need to thump his chest.
I think that he needs to be himself and I think he does "oozed charisma and strength" And by the way Bill Clinton is not on the ballot.
It is clear that most of her support is from people electing Bill for a third term.
elizaW - how is our present mucho macho President working out for ya!
We need to stop choosing our President the way we choose our sex partners or boyfriends. How many times are we going to get screwed by the "tough guy" before we realize that what we NEED is the "nice" guy that calls you back?
America is starting to look like an abused woman. We are known to seek out the same type of abusive men over and over. No matter how much it hurts, no matter that we recognize what is being done to us, we are automatically drawn to abusive men - Presidents, leaders, put your word here_______.
Barack Obama is by definition an alpha male. Yes he is youthful looking, slender, somewhat softspoken and at times, intellectual.
He also took the notion that he could be President of the United States and in a remarkably short time, got millions of people to embrace it, even though there was no historical precendent to his candidacy.
With "nothing but words" he got millions to vote, donate and volunteer, including many who had never participated in the process before.
In a day and age when we get our images of masculinity from action movie stars, pro wrestlers, narcissitic rockers and rappers and a president who practices cowboy diplomacy, he chooses to speak with reason and compassion. When his words are twists, he does not react with anger. When his ideas are challenged, he addresses the challenge, without insulting the challenger. And when faced with ignorance, he responds with wisdom.
If you do not consider these the acts of an Alpha Male, then perhaps you've beein taking too many cues from comic books and not enough from history books.
He's not a George Bush-style Alpha Male. He's more like that other Republican
I'm a guy and I get called 'sweetie' and 'honey' all time by women in an off-hand sort of fashion. i don't get the big deal. What's your point? Women can do it, but men can't?
More seriously, though, why do you look at the black men in your class yearbook and wonder...
"Did they get lucky, draw the affirmative action straw and get into private colleges and law school, get promoted up the EEOC ranks of a multi-national? Or, are they delivering mail, pounding nails, in jail?"
What happened to the middle ground there?
And finally, choosing Hillary over Barack, just because she's female isn't feminism. Feminism is about fighting for equality, not superiority for women. In that regard, Barack Obama will be a truer feminist than people like Erica Jong.
"Like others (including Erica Jong, under attack on this page right now for referring to Obama as a boy) I think Obama looks boyish. And by that I mean young - not "bwah!" With his infectious grin and stick-out ears, he looks like a kid, and that's a good thing and a bad thing. I like that he's my age, he's new and fresh and he's going to negotiate with our enemies (yes! Long overdue!), say things the old fogeys would never say, and try new ways of doing. "
I'm really getting tired of the constant attempts to infantalize Obama by the white feminist establishment.
They are constantly trying to paint him as either an inexperienced and immature child or they are accusing him of being "uppity" and daring to be "elite". That's when they aren't condescendingly giving him his props for being a phenominal speaker- a gift they deem empty and meaningless- like a jazz musician who has rhythm but isn't ready for grown-up responsibilities.
You want "experience"? I'll give you experience. Obama just beat the Clinton machine- how's that for "experience"?
These coded arguments didn't work in the primary and they need to be buried now.
Shinybear -
No one points out enough that this inexperienced "boy" beat the Clinton machine. The machine that could no doubt - according to her supporters - beat McCain. That does not seem logical to me.
nina I think you can tell by obama's actions that the answer to your question is yes.
and no disrespect intended, but I don't really care what obama thinks about oj, and it shouldn't even be an issue.
I think most everything that needed to be said has been said below.
I think it was wrong to exclude the possibility that some black males in the community you grew up in succeeded beyond manual labor without affirmative action, even if on average it was less likely. With your yearbook and Google, you could have actually checked up on them.
That said, I praise the first Amendment and your right to be equally insensitive to all in your post.
I think it does help both readers and WRITERS learn when everything is discussed.
You're clearly not in this category, but hearing quotes from racists in West Virginia was important in dispelling prevailing myths about how far we have advanced. Off-camera whispers wouldn't have started a discussion.
I'm looking forward to your "Is Obama macho enough" post.
Excellent replies from Taylor J, Janex , jfor, qtez , M Peter, fedupcitizen, Clevelandchick and so many others
I'm a 61 year old allegedly educated married white Canadian guy. So far no one has asked my opinion on any of legions of white criminals, or mysogynistic white rappers like earlier Eminem, past preacher sound bites, whether or not my florid complexion is white enough, or why I don't wear flag pins. Except for certain ranting 70's era feminist types - no one else has ever held me personally responsible for the bad behaviour of some other male I never met.
Ms Burleigh continues the why should we expect to get a women president now because women are 500 years from parity with men - as if its always someone else's fault that Hillary was cheated from her entitlement. The sad truth is Hillary is made herself unelectable by her own behaviour. You want to get a woman elected - field a better candidate.
Exactly. And she made herself unelectable not only by her behavior, but by her poor managment skills and her hubris.
Again, why should we elect Hillary SIMPLY because she's a woman?
I vote for who I think is the best candidate. I don't vote based on the person's sex, religion (except if they want to impose it upon me), color, or ethnicity. I don't think Hillary is the best candidate, period. And I certainly think if we're nominating a woman as president, we could do a hell of a lot better.
By God, your terseness reminds me of myself, before I became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Big Pharma! Couldn't have hit closer if you'd used a bomb sight. You sir, are an Instant Favorite!
I find some of what you say to be very offensive. I am going to say this without deliberately attempting to reoffend..
You need to look at yourself more closely.
"Looking at those yearbooks, I realized I have no idea what happened to any of those young black men."
This statement suggests that you have in fact made lifelong relationships (or followed the progress in life) with any number of the young "white" men in the yearbook. If that is the case, you can start by asking yourself:
"Why the disparity and what is it built upon?"
Actually, none of them showed up for the 20 year high school reunion and that's the only way I've kept track of any of the kids from that school. I live in another part of the country now. Insinuating that I don't know where they are because they are black - I don't know if I agree with that.
It may not be important that you don't know what became of any of them, but it is interesting that of all the paths their lives have since taken, you chose to enumerate only three: prison, the post office and corporate success with help from affirmative action. I realize you were only giving examples, but since you have no idea what they are doing and are only guessing, the examples are telling.
"That said, it would be nice to see some glimmer of feminism coming out of our presumptive black male candidate. I'd like to know what he thinks of OJ Simpson, for example. Would he, law professor, stand up in front of a black crowd and admit that he thinks OJ got away with murdering a white woman - unlike the countless black males who actually didn't murder the white woman, but were hanged anyway? In all cases, remember, the woman was actually dead."
Did you have your head in the sand when he have his speech on MLK's birthday or something? Will he stand in front of a black crowd and tell them things they don't want to hear? I would say that's a resounding YES.
http://www
"The nasty sexist crap Clinton has had to endure only makes me want to support her, even though I don't even like her, and I don't think she's a good leader. She doesn't have that warm, follow-me, sun-god quality that leaders in a democracy must have. In politics personality does matter, and it doesn't matter how many disastrous frat boys we elect, that'll never change."
This is where I can't stand the logic of the likes of you. Repeat after me: "It's not sexist to call out a female candidate for being a bad candidate.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better!
"I'd like to know what he thinks of O.J. Simpson."
Google is your friend.
Sorry, but Obama has more important issues to consider (you know, pesky presential things like economy, security, immigration, environment) than telling you how he felt about OJ or correcting rap lyrics. What an insult!
I am a woman who would have loved to vote for a female. But I made my choice based on Clinton's lack of leadership and a truly awful campaign. As for sexism in the media, you are talking about the same woman whose own surrogates claimed she had cajones, right?
Oh really? Domestic violence and cultural misogyny too insignificant to be one of those really important "pesky presidential issues?" And a presumably enlightened American female saying it is "insulting" to ask that they be addressed? IS it any wonder the UN estimates we've got 500 years to gender parity?
It's called "picking your battles."
I think if you look at his reaction to the Don Imus situation you will see how he feels about those particular rap lyrics, if I recall correctly he made mention of it when he spoke condemned Imus's remarks
Why don't you ask Bill Clinton about misogyny? He's an expert.
Domestic violence and cultural misogyny needs to be addressed on MANY levels...m
Sorry Nina, you are conversing with a minority mother of a special needs child (one who gets routinely cheated out of many aspects of society and is voiceless in her own advocacy).
BTW, you are acting as if Obama is the POTUS and has already disappointed the feminist movement. Last I checked he was the presumptive nominee...
You can organize a group thru his website and when he is President you can make sure that domestic violence is an issue that is being addressed.
This is exactly what he wants to happen. People taking control of an issue and moving it forward.
Nina, What kind of title is that...tel
In the "sweetie" clip I saw, the reporter was badgering Obama when he wasn't even taking questions. "Sweetie" was a nicer brushoff than she deserved, IMO.
Do you still beat your wife?
Loaded question
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Many questions, also known as complex question, presupposition, loaded question, "trick question", or plurium interrogationum (Latin, "of many questions"), is an informal fallacy or logical fallacy.[1
The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious
Obviously your question is loaded, Nina. If you can['t see it, read up on fallacies of logic.
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