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Noah Efron

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The Meeting of Science and Religion in Real Life

Posted: 01/28/11 08:39 PM ET

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Hamlet, Act 1, Scene V

Many see the meeting of science and religion as a meeting of ideas. Biologists propose evolution and believers counter with creation. Physicists say "Big Bang" and pastors say "God's handiwork." Science is theories, religion is theology; sometimes the ideas put forth by each mesh, and sometimes they grind.

This sort of scheme is the basis of a lot of what is written about science and religion, by both those who see the two as warring, and those who see the two as compatible. Sam Harris adopted it in his essay here in the Huffington Post, "Science Must Destroy Religion":

Religious faith -- faith that there is a God who cares what name he is called, that one of our books is infallible, that Jesus is coming back to earth to judge the living and the dead, that Muslim martyrs go straight to Paradise, etc. -- is on the wrong side of an escalating war of ideas.

So, too, Christopher Hitchens who wrote that:

Faith must believe in answered prayers, divinely ordained morality, heavenly warrant for circumcision, the occurrence of miracles or what you will. Physics and chemistry and biology and paleontology and archeology have, at a minimum, given us explanations for what used to be mysterious, and furnished us with hypotheses that are at least as good as, or very much better than, the ones offered by any believers in other and inexplicable dimensions.

Richard Dawkins also maintains that the issue is ideas. "Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth," he writes, and these foolish truths are what gum up the real truths of science.

Once you see science and religion principally as bodies of ideas, the obvious thing to ask about them is whether or not these ideas fit together. Thus, even the brilliant philosopher of science, Alan Plantinga, writing on "Religion and Science" in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy concludes that "perhaps the most salient question is whether the relation between religion and science is characterized by conflict or by concord." Is there or isn't there "an escalating war of ideas" between the two?

But the thing is, though both are rich with ideas of all sorts, neither science nor religion is mostly about ideas. These grand and impossible abstractions -- science and religion -- are about more than theories and theology. Each also describes exquisitely complex practices, prescriptions and proscriptions of behaviors and attitudes, communal institutions, structures of authority, canonical texts, rules for deciding what is to be believed and what rejected, sanctioned forms of communication, rituals, traditions, calendars and seasons, and more.

Science is often taken to be a bunch of rarefied, bespectacled, ethereal, elegant E=mc2 codifications. In fact, it is much broader, including scientific practices and scientific technologies (through which most of us experience science most immediately) as well as science funding and science teaching and medicine and psychiatry and a hundred other paths by which science and scientists wend their ways into our lives.

Religion is often taken to be a compendium of religious dogma championed by beshrouded men in odd hats and vestments and collars who tsk tsk about the decline of traditional values. In fact, it is much more than that, including patterns of language and liturgy, stories we tell our kids, foods we make, how we mark birth and marriage and death, how we understand sickness, what songs we sing when and why, and a hundred other paths by which religion wends its way into the lives of those who embrace or reject it.

All this being the case, the meeting between science and religion is rarely a meeting about ideas at all. Conflicts about evolution and intelligent design dominate headlines, but they are rarely, if ever, the most important story to tell about the relationship between science and religion. In fact, even when a conflict about science and religion seems to be about ideas, usually it is at the same time also about something else altogether. Obviously, these meetings are often about politics. Equally often, they are about identity, autonomy, authority and manners. They can be about economics. They can be about knowledge and what counts as reliable knowledge. Who is an expert and who is a charlatan.

Sometimes, though they seem to be about abstract ideas, meetings of science and religion are really about how best to bring up your kids and how to be a mate. Or about whether and when and how to have sex or use drugs. Or about what counts as health and what counts as illness. Or about whom one should turn to for advice when facing a problem. Or about how to entertain yourself and how to spend your money.

A few days ago, Pope Benedict XVI issued a statement about social networks like Facebook, called "Truth, Proclamation and Authenticity of Life in the Digital Age." The Pope's tone is one of reflection and careful measure, and he finds online things to admire and things to avoid. He sees in the Internet "a new appreciation of communication itself, which is seen first of all as dialogue, exchange, solidarity and the creation of positive relations." At the same time, he finds in posting and Tweeting and poking a "tendency to communicate only some parts of one's interior world" and a "risk of constructing a false image of oneself, which can become a form of self-indulgence." Life online shakes up life as we knew it, raising important questions:

Who is my "neighbour" in this new world? Does the danger exist that we may be less present to those whom we encounter in our everyday life? Is there a risk of being more distracted because our attention is fragmented and absorbed in a world "other" than the one in which we live? Do we have time to reflect critically on our choices and to foster human relationships which are truly deep and lasting?

What makes this document moving is the fact that in it Pope Benedict tries to make sense of how the vast changes quickly wrought by scientific technologies affect the lives of our kids and our own lives, how they might bring people together or keep them apart, how they add to our loneliness or subtract from it, how they allow us to find meaning and love, or prevent us for this. What makes it moving is the Pope's certainty that "the truth of Christ" and "the task of witnessing to the Gospel" are affected by the Internet (and other technologies served up by science), alongside his wavering and worried uncertainty about just how they are affected. The Pope knows that social networks answer a "desire for relationship, meaning and communion" that are the soul of what it means to be human, and he knows that at the same time they provide new ways for people to bully and berate one another, another human tendency.

Even more than tired polemics about Darwin, this is where science and religion meet in ways that matter, behind the locked bedroom door of a teen at a screen, waiting, forlorn, to be friended. Meetings of this sort reflect no "great war of ideas." They are something more delicate than that, far from headlines, taking place at a scale more human than seminar room polemics, with stakes that are, in the end, higher.

Over the next months, I will present in a series of essays examples of these other sorts of meetings of science, technology and religion: on Wall Street and Main Street, in bedrooms and boardrooms and examination rooms, in bistros and bodegas, in short, in all the places where, as a matter of course, we live our lives.

 

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"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Hamlet, Act 1, Scene V Many see the meeting of science and religion as a meeting of ideas. Biologists p...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Hamlet, Act 1, Scene V Many see the meeting of science and religion as a meeting of ideas. Biologists p...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gregory57
Micro-bio, was one of my favorite classes.
07:36 PM on 03/07/2011
Science is religion without hate. Science attempts to describe god more accurately than the bible, and without all the drama and bloodshed. Left on it's on Science will eventually find God. The hard way.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gregory57
Micro-bio, was one of my favorite classes.
07:30 PM on 03/07/2011
Science is little more than meter-less poetry about God's Creation!

Science is not the Moon. Science is the Finger pointing at the Moon
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
04:22 PM on 02/02/2011
Science and religion only meet when religion accepts a scientific proof. Science will continue unabated without any influence by religion. Historically, religion has impeded scientific progress.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
04:17 PM on 02/02/2011
The theory of gravity is really Intelligent Falling and the theory of flight? Intelligent Floating of course.
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Veritas is Pro Life
Follower of Christ, Family Man and Marine
03:16 PM on 02/02/2011
Of course there is not conflict between Faith and reason (aka religion and science). God created all things, including science. This is what the Church teaches. Veritas.
01:48 PM on 02/02/2011
Science and Relgion are not a contrast or at conflict. Neither theory or idea is perpendicular with the other.

Example:

1. God (Allah, Yahweh, Yeshua etc..) created the soup of atoms, electrons etc... and then stirred the pot with the intentions and knowing of the outcomes.

2. Science gives names and actions to those elements that God created and defined principles of actions, behaviors and patterns.

Neither needs to document that God, Angels, or Jesus had a hand in the evolution of our galaxy inorder to embrace one or the other or both.

When a Scientist reaches Heaven he'll be able to articulate in perfect diction and definition the workings that God created and exclaim that he lived his life without ever having too or subcoming to believing in God or Religion or Faith. And God will smille and say, I know and you've served my chilidren as I planned. Thank you.

There is no conflict between God and Science.

There is however a ton of conflict between ignorance and the teaching of religion and science. We're all students from the time we're born til the time we die. To study either subject matter with less respect than a scientists rules and guidelines would be dishonest to both.

Teaching Creationism in Biology Science class is neither scientific nor relgious. It's just ignorant arrogant and using God to push a political agenda conflict with God. He doesnt give damn about politics.
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Bryan Elliott
02:38 AM on 02/04/2011
Your examples are rather missing the point. Science is not atoms, electrons, particles or waves. Science is the process by which we question the world and discover its nature. It requires skepticism, doubt, and the careful separation of what is false from what is demonstrable via a consistent method.

Application of this process to religious ideals is, in every event, a disaster for religion; it breeds atheism, in most cases. That is what is meant by a "conflict between science and religion".

Evolutionary theory, big bang theory, etc - these are incursions of the results of scientific investigation into concepts previously covered by existing religious teachings. Every time this happens, there is resistance, then apologisms, and, eventually - ages later - acceptance of the scientific result by the religious establishment.

Scientific information is generated by the careful extraction of truth from reality; religious information is generated by, usually, a small group bookish dudes writing things down as they come upon them without question. Since the former is more likely to produce accurate information, the latter eventually folds.
07:04 AM on 02/07/2011
Thank you Bryan E for your reply. I respectfully disagree. Your well spoken and I enjoyed your comments.
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StevieRayB
Occupy the Future
08:07 AM on 02/02/2011
Science and Religion will never meet. They don't need to.

“There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works,” : Stephen Hawking
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whirlpool
founder walnut tree congregation
03:45 PM on 02/02/2011
Win what? I for one do not think that understanding nature is some sort of sports contest. Nature can be apprehended by art, science, poetry, literature and mythology. They all reveal different things about nature in different ways.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
04:25 PM on 02/02/2011
Not a sports contest, but a contest for the minds of our civilization. The National Science Foundation doesn't think we are doing such a good job of keeping pseudoscience out of our discourse.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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Mikeeee
Did you forgive god today?
02:33 PM on 02/01/2011
I offer up this as evidence that we are not evil by nature as religion would have us believe.
Please take the time and enjoy.
http://www.cbc.ca/tapestry/episode/2011/01/30/survival-of-the-kindest-3/
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US American
"...lightning ain't distributed right"
12:57 PM on 02/01/2011
Religion just wants to jump on Science's coat tails because they now that the real problems facing the world today are technical in nature and they will be solved by Science.
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US American
"...lightning ain't distributed right"
09:29 AM on 02/02/2011
now should be know
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Akla
Leave No Trace, Just a Good Impression
12:04 PM on 02/01/2011
another tired argument trying to reframe the questions, the actions of religionists to force others to their belief systems, and the outright errors in the information and messages revealed to the so-called appointed ones with whom god speaks. Religionists are still trying to keep themselves relevant in a world of better educated, more informed and less gullible people. As for anything the pope says, it is not informed, nor the word of god, nor honest until he admits and atones for his and other church leaders roles in pedophilia, molestations, and lies that seem to be the foundation of this church. The previous one, now on his way to sainthood, was no better.
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yinkadlb8
Having a glimpse of a sunny day.
09:53 AM on 02/01/2011
Frankly, I believe their should be meeting point between Science and Religion rather than frequent faceoffs experienced in various journals inclusive of newspapers, magazines etc. Granted that there are new discoveries as to the beginnings of the world or perhaps the Universe, it doesn't negate or disprove God's existence in any way. Scientists are unable to "see" beyond the physical realm to authenticate their facts due to lack of spiritual insights that Religionists have. Religionists should not apologize for the inability of Scientists to see things their way. Eventually, when the dust settles, Scientists will definitely find links between their profession and God.
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11:14 AM on 02/01/2011
Scientists are not looking for links with God. They've got better things to do.
01:30 PM on 02/01/2011
Natural world, supernatural world, do you understand the difference?

Scienctists aren't looking for the 'links' between their profession and god. It's not their job.
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whirlpool
founder walnut tree congregation
03:42 PM on 02/02/2011
I agree. There are a few scientists mostly in academia however who try to bridge the gap between science and the sense of the sacred in nature with some very fine writing. Chet Raymo (When God is Gone, Everything is Holy) and the many books by Loren Eiseley are good examples. Loren Eiseley won many awards in science but also many humanitarian awards for his writing.
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NYC123
08:08 AM on 02/01/2011
Science, when it comes to how the world was formed to include mankind and the animal kingdom, is not science -- but just theories that cannot be proven or supported with fossil records. Big Bang? Really -- takes a leap of faith to believe that; especially since they do not identify how solid matter, space, gravity, gases, design and systems, etc. got there in the first place -- and without an intelligent master worker at the helm!

Let's just start with the big bang and go forward is the science community's contention. Let's not let facts get in the way of science -- forward and onward with the Big Bang! This is not science folks - these are theorists that dabble in the "studies of the universe." And get paid handsomely let's not forget that; and use science lingo as their pin-strip suits to sound believable. Believable like the Wall Street professionals believable; all smoke and mirrors! Not all -- but a lot!!

There is enough doubt in the science community's assertions that we as consumers that buy into their every word should always ask ourselves: Is this science -- something that can be proven in a lab? Or is it theory -- something with lots of holes, like in facts and Probabilities -- of which, the holes can be crater size..... and laughable!
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11:16 AM on 02/01/2011
Religion can't construct or even aspire to a credible theory.
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NYC123
04:57 PM on 02/01/2011
I hear a lot of mumbling and whinning -- and hot air! Please address arguments with clarity so we can all learn, discern, and counter.
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NYC123
04:58 PM on 02/01/2011
Does every counter in slogans ang gibber!
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US American
"...lightning ain't distributed right"
12:59 PM on 02/01/2011
Oh boy, another one that doesnt understand that the word theory has more than one definition. The way the word is used in every day language is not the same way it is used in the scientific community.
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03:50 PM on 02/01/2011
You're right, of course. Here are a few more definitions:

Dogma: physics
Evidence: the Bible
Experiment: Providence
Newton: Anti-Christ
Proof: the Bible
Progress: Greek to Latin
Refutation: the Bible
Science: Immutability
Scientist: God
Theory: Literalism
The Trinity: Moe, Larry, Curly
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Douglas Campbell
09:55 AM on 01/31/2011
I think most scientist are searching for God. Certainly Einstein and Hawkins spend or spent a lot of time thinking about God.
Buddhism, like physics- is all about cause and effect. For every action there is a reaction. This entire train of thought is missing from Christianity with its emphasis on rules and don't do this or you will go to hell. Instead, Christians should be saying A) Why not do this? and B) Why do I feel compelled to do this if it's wrong? and C) Why is it wrong ?
Saying something is wrong because the bible says so is simply lazy.
Saying the bible is the word of God is not factual, at least there is no factual evidence.
Saying to take it on faith seems an awfully weak hand. Surely the word of God will stand up to scrutiny.
09:13 PM on 01/31/2011
Which god? They are waring factions, you know. And since there have been thousands of them invented in the mind of man, that amounts to one hell of a war.
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Douglas Campbell
09:30 PM on 01/31/2011
No definitive conclusion have been made, rather the concept is explored by scientist.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
09:18 PM on 01/31/2011
Neither Einstein, nor Hawkins spend a lot of time thinking about God. From what I can see, nearly all of their documented quotes referencing god were in response to inquisitorial questions. Neither includes God in any of their findings.
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Douglas Campbell
09:27 PM on 01/31/2011
If you are Christian or Jew you just broke a commandment. It's simply not true. Which books did you research?
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Douglas Campbell
10:57 PM on 01/31/2011
To be honest, I only have one book by Hawkins (The Universe in a Nutshell) and he speaks freely, uninquised relative to "God". For Einstein, I researched his faith as a non observant Jew escaping the Nazis and later, as I am a Buddhist, his admiration for Buddhism, which seems fitting, as he is the Godfather, or whatever of Physics and Buddhism's dynamic law is "cause & effect".
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
04:10 AM on 01/31/2011
I think it would be better to label this "religion suddenly discovering science".

Science has never concerned itself about religion, beyond the terms of religion was hindering science.
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Shanard
02:29 PM on 01/31/2011
I don't know if that's quite an accurate reading of what happened. Look at thinkers like Descartes and Bacon, arguably some of the fathers of the modern conception of science and God was basically central to both of their epistemic projects. I don't think the divorce between the two worlds (science/religion) happened until the late Enlightenment with the rise of pietism in Protestantism.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
09:05 PM on 01/31/2011
Descartes was of a time when free though about religion was a fast way of becoming worm food or carboniferous air pollution. And, "I think, therefore I am" spits in the face of the dogmatic religious reference to "I am".
09:14 PM on 01/31/2011
Look at the time Descartes and Bacon lived and you'll see why your argument holds little weight.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
09:20 PM on 01/31/2011
And religion is rife with examples of condemning those who contradicted religion in the name of science, no matter how accurate that science was proven to be over time.
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Shanard
03:55 PM on 02/02/2011
How do you define science? Are you simply conflating it with empiricism...because any talk of "science" before the Late Renaissance/Early Modern era is an anachronism.

If you're alluding to an incident like Galileo, bear in mind that the only empirical evidence he had for his view was Venus "phasing outside" the confines of a Ptolemaic celestial sphere. Both Ptolemy and Heliocentrism were viable from a mathematical view, Heliocentricity's strength coming primarily from its ability to simplify the equations used to determine the orbit of the planets...actual observational evidence would not come until much later.

The Vatican's scientists were wrong, but they weren't stupid.
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Patrick Flannery
Editor, nerd, dad.
08:29 PM on 01/30/2011
"In fact, it is much more than that, including patterns of language and liturgy, stories we tell our kids, foods we make, how we mark birth and marriage and death, how we understand sickness, what songs we sing when and why, and a hundred other paths by which religion wends its way into the lives of those who embrace or reject it."

Ah, the religious apologist at work. If some inalienable fact about religion becomes inconvenient to your attempts to defend it, simply redefine the term! For the purposes of this essay, Mr. Efron finds it convenient to conflate the terms "religion" and "science" with, well, everything remotely connected to them. That way, he gets to argue that the dispute is not about conflicting methods of forming beliefs about the world, but about conflicting lifestyle choices. And we all have to be tolerant of each others' lifestyle choices, don't we?

The unfortunate fact for Efron is that those terms mean what they mean and do not mean all that other stuff. The principles of logic, empirical observation and rationality on which science is built are the principles we all use, in every facet of life. Many people, however, think that an exception should be made when we consider certain questions about ourselves and the nature of the universe. For those questions alone, faith replaces reason as the prime arbiter of truth. The dispute between science and religion is a dispute about whether such intellectual dishonesty is allowable.
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QuarkGluonSoup
09:18 PM on 01/30/2011
Science deals with the physical world, religion with the metaphysical. Someone with a disease would be smart turning to science, while one with serious personal problems are often wise turning to religion (as many who have been in that situation will attest).

There is no conflict, other than the one *certain* people want to create. *Certain* secular people are just as dogmatic and absolutist as the most conservative fundamentalist Christian.
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MagicManDoneIt
When facts are lacking. Just say...
10:44 PM on 01/30/2011
"... religion with the metaphysical." For metaphysical, read imaginary. And someone with serious personal problems are often wise to turn to a friend, loved one, counselor, psychiatrist, etc. Some pastors, priests, etc. are good counselors, but that doesn't mean that religion makes them so.

If you are going to call our *certain* people, how about an example.
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alterego55
Flash your citations or leave!
09:13 PM on 01/31/2011
Maslow would think otherwise about personal problems.

I believe if you get religion (particularly Christianity) out of our social, legal and political systems, you would hear nothing but crickets from the Athiest/Agnostic community, other than in debating circles discussing Beyond Freedom and Dignity.