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Noam Chomsky

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"Losing" the World

Posted: 02/14/2012 11:12 am

American Decline in Perspective, Part 1

Cross-posted with TomDispatch.com

Significant anniversaries are solemnly commemorated -- Japan’s attack on the U.S. naval base at Pearl Harbor, for example.  Others are ignored, and we can often learn valuable lessons from them about what is likely to lie ahead.  Right now, in fact.

At the moment, we are failing to commemorate the 50th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy’s decision to launch the most destructive and murderous act of aggression of the post-World War II period: the invasion of South Vietnam, later all of Indochina, leaving millions dead and four countries devastated, with casualties still mounting from the long-term effects of drenching South Vietnam with some of the most lethal carcinogens known, undertaken to destroy ground cover and food crops. 

The prime target was South Vietnam.  The aggression later spread to the North, then to the remote peasant society of northern Laos, and finally to rural Cambodia, which was bombed at the stunning level of all allied air operations in the Pacific region during World War II, including the two atom bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  In this, Henry Kissinger’s orders were being carried out -- “anything that flies on anything that moves” -- a call for genocide that is rare in the historical record.  Little of this is remembered.  Most was scarcely known beyond narrow circles of activists.

When the invasion was launched 50 years ago, concern was so slight that there were few efforts at justification, hardly more than the president’s impassioned plea that “we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence” and if the conspiracy achieves its ends in Laos and Vietnam, “the gates will be opened wide.”

Elsewhere, he warned further that “the complacent, the self-indulgent, the soft societies are about to be swept away with the debris of history [and] only the strong... can possibly survive,” in this case reflecting on the failure of U.S. aggression and terror to crush Cuban independence.

By the time protest began to mount half a dozen years later, the respected Vietnam specialist and military historian Bernard Fall, no dove, forecast that “Vietnam as a cultural and historic entity… is threatened with extinction...[as]...the countryside literally dies under the blows of the largest military machine ever unleashed on an area of this size.” He was again referring to South Vietnam.

When the war ended eight horrendous years later, mainstream opinion was divided between those who described the war as a “noble cause” that could have been won with more dedication, and at the opposite extreme, the critics, to whom it was “a mistake” that proved too costly.  By 1977, President Carter aroused little notice when he explained that we owe Vietnam “no debt” because “the destruction was mutual.”

There are important lessons in all this for today, even apart from another reminder that only the weak and defeated are called to account for their crimes.  One lesson is that to understand what is happening we should attend not only to critical events of the real world, often dismissed from history, but also to what leaders and elite opinion believe, however tinged with fantasy.  Another lesson is that alongside the flights of fancy concocted to terrify and mobilize the public (and perhaps believed by some who are trapped in their own rhetoric), there is also geostrategic planning based on principles that are rational and stable over long periods because they are rooted in stable institutions and their concerns.  That is true in the case of Vietnam as well.  I will return to that, only stressing here that the persistent factors in state action are generally well concealed.

The Iraq war is an instructive case.  It was marketed to a terrified public on the usual grounds of self-defense against an awesome threat to survival: the “single question,” George W. Bush and Tony Blair declared, was whether Saddam Hussein would end his programs of developing weapons of mass destruction.   When the single question received the wrong answer, government rhetoric shifted effortlessly to our “yearning for democracy,” and educated opinion duly followed course; all routine. 

Later, as the scale of the U.S. defeat in Iraq was becoming difficult to suppress, the government quietly conceded what had been clear all along.  In 2007-2008, the administration officially announced that a final settlement must grant the U.S. military bases and the right of combat operations, and must privilege U.S. investors in the rich energy system -- demands later reluctantly abandoned in the face of Iraqi resistance.  And all well kept from the general population.

Gauging American Decline

With such lessons in mind, it is useful to look at what is highlighted in the major journals of policy and opinion today.  Let us keep to the most prestigious of the establishment journals, Foreign Affairs.  The headline blaring on the cover of the December 2011 issue reads in bold face: “Is America Over?”

The title article calls for “retrenchment” in the “humanitarian missions” abroad that are consuming the country’s wealth, so as to arrest the American decline that is a major theme of international affairs discourse, usually accompanied by the corollary that power is shifting to the East, to China and (maybe) India.

The lead articles are on Israel-Palestine.  The first, by two high Israeli officials, is entitled “The Problem is Palestinian Rejection”: the conflict cannot be resolved because Palestinians refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state -- thereby conforming to standard diplomatic practice: states are recognized, but not privileged sectors within them.  The demand is hardly more than a new device to deter the threat of political settlement that would undermine Israel’s expansionist goals.

The opposing position, defended by an American professor, is entitled “The Problem Is the Occupation.” The subtitle reads “How the Occupation is Destroying the Nation.” Which nation?  Israel, of course.  The paired articles appear under the heading “Israel under Siege.”

The January 2012 issue features yet another call to bomb Iran now, before it is too late.  Warning of “the dangers of deterrence,” the author suggests that “skeptics of military action fail to appreciate the true danger that a nuclear-armed Iran would pose to U.S. interests in the Middle East and beyond. And their grim forecasts assume that the cure would be worse than the disease -- that is, that the consequences of a U.S. assault on Iran would be as bad as or worse than those of Iran achieving its nuclear ambitions. But that is a faulty assumption. The truth is that a military strike intended to destroy Iran’s nuclear program, if managed carefully, could spare the region and the world a very real threat and dramatically improve the long-term national security of the United States.”

Others argue that the costs would be too high, and at the extremes some even point out that an attack would violate international law -- as does the stand of the moderates, who regularly deliver threats of violence, in violation of the U.N. Charter.

Let us review these dominant concerns in turn.

American decline is real, though the apocalyptic vision reflects the familiar ruling class perception that anything short of total control amounts to total disaster.  Despite the piteous laments, the U.S. remains the world dominant power by a large margin, and no competitor is in sight, not only in the military dimension, in which of course the U.S. reigns supreme.

China and India have recorded rapid (though highly inegalitarian) growth, but remain very poor countries, with enormous internal problems not faced by the West.  China is the world’s major manufacturing center, but largely as an assembly plant for the advanced industrial powers on its periphery and for western multinationals.  That is likely to change over time.  Manufacturing regularly provides the basis for innovation, often breakthroughs, as is now sometimes happening in China.  One example that has impressed western specialists is China’s takeover of the growing global solar panel market, not on the basis of cheap labor but by coordinated planning and, increasingly, innovation.

But the problems China faces are serious. Some are demographic, reviewed in Science, the leading U.S. science weekly. The study shows that mortality sharply decreased in China during the Maoist years, “mainly a result of economic development and improvements in education and health services, especially the public hygiene movement that resulted in a sharp drop in mortality from infectious diseases.” This progress ended with the initiation of the capitalist reforms 30 years ago, and the death rate has since increased. 

Furthermore, China’s recent economic growth has relied substantially on a “demographic bonus,” a very large working-age population. “But the window for harvesting this bonus may close soon,” with a “profound impact on development”:  “Excess cheap labor supply, which is one of the major factors driving China's economic miracle, will no longer be available.”

Demography is only one of many serious problems ahead.  For India, the problems are far more severe.

Not all prominent voices foresee American decline.  Among international media, there is none more serious and responsible than the London Financial Times.  It recently devoted a full page to the optimistic expectation that new technology for extracting North American fossil fuels might allow the U.S. to become energy independent, hence to retain its global hegemony for a century.  There is no mention of the kind of world the U.S. would rule in this happy event, but not for lack of evidence.

At about the same time, the International Energy Agency reported that, with rapidly increasing carbon emissions from fossil fuel use, the limit of safety will be reached by 2017 if the world continues on its present course. “The door is closing,” the IEA chief economist said, and very soon it “will be closed forever.”

Shortly before the U.S. Department of Energy reported the most recent carbon dioxide emissions figures, which “jumped by the biggest amount on record” to a level higher than the worst-case scenario anticipated by the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).  That came as no surprise to many scientists, including the MIT program on climate change, which for years has warned that the IPCC predictions are too conservative.

Such critics of the IPCC predictions receive virtually no public attention, unlike the fringe of denialists who are supported by the corporate sector, along with huge propaganda campaigns that have driven Americans off the international spectrum in dismissal of the threats.  Business support also translates directly to political power.  Denialism is part of the catechism that must be intoned by Republican candidates in the farcical election campaign now in progress, and in Congress they are powerful enough to abort even efforts to inquire into the effects of global warming, let alone do anything serious about it.

In brief, American decline can perhaps be stemmed if we abandon hope for decent survival, prospects that are all too real given the balance of forces in the world.

“Losing” China and Vietnam

Putting such unpleasant thoughts aside, a close look at American decline shows that China indeed plays a large role, as it has for 60 years.  The decline that now elicits such concern is not a recent phenomenon.  It traces back to the end of World War II, when the U.S. had half the world’s wealth and incomparable security and global reach.  Planners were naturally well aware of the enormous disparity of power, and intended to keep it that way.

The basic viewpoint was outlined with admirable frankness in a major state paper of 1948 (PPS 23).  The author was one of the architects of the New World Order of the day, the chair of the State Department Policy Planning Staff, the respected statesman and scholar George Kennan, a moderate dove within the planning spectrum.  He observed that the central policy goal was to maintain the “position of disparity” that separated our enormous wealth from the poverty of others.  To achieve that goal, he advised, “We should cease to talk about vague and... unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization,” and must “deal in straight power concepts,” not “hampered by idealistic slogans” about “altruism and world-benefaction.”

Kennan was referring specifically to Asia, but the observations generalize, with exceptions, for participants in the U.S.-run global system.  It was well understood that the “idealistic slogans” were to be displayed prominently when addressing others, including the intellectual classes, who were expected to promulgate them.

The plans that Kennan helped formulate and implement took for granted that the U.S. would control the Western Hemisphere, the Far East, the former British empire (including the incomparable energy resources of the Middle East), and as much of Eurasia as possible, crucially its commercial and industrial centers.  These were not unrealistic objectives, given the distribution of power.  But decline set in at once.

In 1949, China declared independence, an event known in Western discourse as “the loss of China” -- in the U.S., with bitter recriminations and conflict over who was responsible for that loss.  The terminology is revealing.  It is only possible to lose something that one owns.  The tacit assumption was that the U.S. owned China, by right, along with most of the rest of the world, much as postwar planners assumed.

The “loss of China” was the first major step in “America’s decline.” It had major policy consequences.  One was the immediate decision to support France’s effort to reconquer its former colony of Indochina, so that it, too, would not be “lost.”

Indochina itself was not a major concern, despite claims about its rich resources by President Eisenhower and others.  Rather, the concern was the “domino theory,” which is often ridiculed when dominoes don’t fall, but remains a leading principle of policy because it is quite rational.  To adopt Henry Kissinger’s version, a region that falls out of control can become a “virus” that will “spread contagion,” inducing others to follow the same path.

In the case of Vietnam, the concern was that the virus of independent development might infect Indonesia, which really does have rich resources.  And that might lead Japan -- the “superdomino” as it was called by the prominent Asia historian John Dower -- to “accommodate” to an independent Asia as its technological and industrial center in a system that would escape the reach of U.S. power.  That would mean, in effect, that the U.S. had lost the Pacific phase of World War II, fought to prevent Japan’s attempt to establish such a New Order in Asia.

The way to deal with such a problem is clear: destroy the virus and “inoculate” those who might be infected.  In the Vietnam case, the rational choice was to destroy any hope of successful independent development and to impose brutal dictatorships in the surrounding regions.  Those tasks were successfully carried out -- though history has its own cunning, and something similar to what was feared has since been developing in East Asia, much to Washington’s dismay.

The most important victory of the Indochina wars was in 1965, when a U.S.-backed military coup in Indonesia led by General Suharto carried out massive crimes that were compared by the CIA to those of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.  The “staggering mass slaughter,” as the New York Times described it, was reported accurately across the mainstream, and with unrestrained euphoria. 

It was “a gleam of light in Asia,” as the noted liberal commentator James Reston wrote in the Times.  The coup ended the threat of democracy by demolishing the mass-based political party of the poor, established a dictatorship that went on to compile one of the worst human rights records in the world, and threw the riches of the country open to western investors.  Small wonder that, after many other horrors, including the near-genocidal invasion of East Timor, Suharto was welcomed by the Clinton administration in 1995 as “our kind of guy.”

Years after the great events of 1965, Kennedy-Johnson National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy reflected that it would have been wise to end the Vietnam war at that time, with the “virus” virtually destroyed and the primary domino solidly in place, buttressed by other U.S.-backed dictatorships throughout the region.

Similar procedures have been routinely followed elsewhere.  Kissinger was referring specifically to the threat of socialist democracy in Chile.  That threat was ended on another forgotten date, what Latin Americans call “the first 9/11,” which in violence and bitter effects far exceeded the 9/11 commemorated in the West.  A vicious dictatorship was imposed in Chile, one part of a plague of brutal repression that spread through Latin America, reaching Central America under Reagan.  Viruses have aroused deep concern elsewhere as well, including the Middle East, where the threat of secular nationalism has often concerned British and U.S. planners, inducing them to support radical Islamic fundamentalism to counter it.

The Concentration of Wealth and American Decline

Despite such victories, American decline continued.  By 1970, U.S. share of world wealth had dropped to about 25%, roughly where it remains, still colossal but far below the end of World War II.  By then, the industrial world was “tripolar”: US-based North America, German-based Europe, and East Asia, already the most dynamic industrial region, at the time Japan-based, but by now including the former Japanese colonies Taiwan and South Korea, and more recently China.

At about that time, American decline entered a new phase: conscious self-inflicted decline.  From the 1970s, there has been a significant change in the U.S. economy, as planners, private and state, shifted it toward financialization and the offshoring of production, driven in part by the declining rate of profit in domestic manufacturing.  These decisions initiated a vicious cycle in which wealth became highly concentrated (dramatically so in the top 0.1% of the population), yielding concentration of political power, hence legislation to carry the cycle further: taxation and other fiscal policies, deregulation, changes in the rules of corporate governance allowing huge gains for executives, and so on.

Meanwhile, for the majority, real wages largely stagnated, and people were able to get by only by sharply increased workloads (far beyond Europe), unsustainable debt, and repeated bubbles since the Reagan years, creating paper wealth that inevitably disappeared when they burst (and the perpetrators were bailed out by the taxpayer).  In parallel, the political system has been increasingly shredded as both parties are driven deeper into corporate pockets with the escalating cost of elections, the Republicans to the level of farce, the Democrats (now largely the former “moderate Republicans”) not far behind.

A recent study by the Economic Policy Institute, which has been the major source of reputable data on these developments for years, is entitled Failure by Design.  The phrase “by design” is accurate.  Other choices were certainly possible.  And as the study points out, the “failure” is class-based.  There is no failure for the designers.  Far from it.  Rather, the policies are a failure for the large majority, the 99% in the imagery of the Occupy movements -- and for the country, which has declined and will continue to do so under these policies.

One factor is the offshoring of manufacturing.  As the solar panel example mentioned earlier illustrates, manufacturing capacity provides the basis and stimulus for innovation leading to higher stages of sophistication in production, design, and invention.  That, too, is being outsourced, not a problem for the “money mandarins” who increasingly design policy, but a serious problem for working people and the middle classes, and a real disaster for the most oppressed, African Americans, who have never escaped the legacy of slavery and its ugly aftermath, and whose meager wealth virtually disappeared after the collapse of the housing bubble in 2008, setting off the most recent financial crisis, the worst so far.

Noam Chomsky is Institute Professor emeritus in the MIT Department of Linguistics and Philosophy. He is the author of numerous best-selling political works. His latest books are Making the Future: Occupations, Intervention, Empire, and Resistance, The Essential Chomsky (edited by Anthony Arnove), a collection of his writings on politics and on language from the 1950s to the present, Gaza in Crisis, with Ilan Pappé, and Hopes and Prospects, also available as an audiobook. To listen to Timothy MacBain’s latest Tomcast audio interview in which Chomsky offers an anatomy of American defeats in the Greater Middle East, click here, or download it to your iPod here.

[Note: Part 2 of Noam Chomsky’s discussion of American decline, “The Imperial Way,” will be posted at TomDispatch tomorrow.]

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AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
07:36 PM on 02/16/2012
billyraevalentine posted:"where is he on record SUPPORTING the chinese invasion of tibet?"

Here. New York Times Review of Books..
"China’s actions in Tibet, whatever one may think of them, are no proof of aggressive expansionism....Tibet has been recognized internationally as a region of China... I should also add that it is a bit too simple to say that “China did indeed take over a country that did not want to be taken over.”
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1967/apr/20/the-responsibility-of-intellectuals-4/

Questions?
11:22 PM on 02/20/2012
The US always wants to romanticize Tibet. It was a theocracy where the monks, who sucked off the community, could come to your house and take your child. It was, in fact, part of China and they have never physically expanded farther.

I am not a Maoist, but this whole day dream is just ridiculous. We adore this man (the Dalai Lama) because he wants world peace? I want world peace. Most people want world peace. I don't think he's particularly helpful (the dalai lama) although I don't have a problem with him. I just think the whole thing is nothing but a US distraction to attempt to demonize China (not that I adore China either). Take a look at what WE've done and do.

And, now it looks like we are going to bomb or invade Iran, urged on by Israel and the neocons. Probably there'll be some excuse, maybe as dramatic as a 9/11, not that the last one was home grown (I don't even go there), but it certainly worked well for the war mongerers and their armament factories.
05:19 PM on 02/16/2012
"In brief, American decline can perhaps be stemmed if we abandon hope for decent survival, prospects that are all too real given the balance of forces in the world."----Could you explain what exactly "decent survival" entails?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lambdin1
What's this?
03:24 PM on 02/16/2012
I agree and it is a good read!! I just do not know how you teach history to generation after generation which are believing the line that we are the greatest nation in the world. Such a shame that people in American believe in myth!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DasBoot
I accidentally cross-dressed today.
07:47 PM on 02/15/2012
I admire Noam Chomsky and there is much truth in this posting.

But: he completely misinterprets George Kennan's PPS23 document. Far from advocating policies to maintain U.S. supremacy around the world, Kennan recommended that the United States WITHDRAW as many forces as possible, as the paragraphs following Chomsky's quote illustrate (one just has to click on the link and read for oneself). Kennan wanted a realistic assessment of the requirements of U.S. national security in Asia and elsewhere, and economic dominance only mattered to him insofar as it affected U.S. security.

Kennan was a self-described realist. He despised rhetorical grand-standing about spreading freedom, etc. That's why he used the harsh language and was against most of the same "humanitarian" interventions that Noam Chomsky also criticized in his career, including most prominently the Vietnam war.
AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
06:39 PM on 02/15/2012
Advice:If you want to read intellectually rigorous left-wing work begin with Adorno and Habermas then proceed to contemporary Slovenian communist philosopher Slavoj Žižek.

Leave this kind of pale imitations to those who get exuberant whenever they hear words "imperialism" and "hegemony" applied in one sentence.
04:34 AM on 02/16/2012
From the not so far away distance I'm sitting, they appear to be pretty well the same lot. I'd say those ARE the kind of people that go for Žižek. Habarmas and Adorno are for a previous crusty academic more self important generation of post-Marxists. All these are going the way of the filing cabinet.
AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
01:18 PM on 02/16/2012
I would bet any amount you haven't read a single Zizek's work.
Obviously, it is less popular ( in U.S.) than Chomsky because Zizek is far more intellectually rigorous and lees doctrinaire ( for instance he adamantly opposes some aspects of multiculturalism and political correctness).
06:01 PM on 02/15/2012
Best explanation of American corruption/imperialism I've read, and this only discusses things that aren't kept from the public.
05:16 PM on 02/15/2012
Above and beyond and driving all of this evil is the human drive for wealth that buys power to do whatever one desires. Unless the middle class suddenly sees the light and quits their pursuit of wealth, which only mimics the megalomania of the upper classes, we are going to experience a time of civil unrest which will make the 60's look quite tame.

The era of cheap energy which has driven the machine age and allowed for a vast overpopulation of humans is coming to an end and it is the rich who expect to survive, since it is they who can buy the protection that will be needed to fend off the hordes who will be seeking their food and gold.

The theft of wealth/resources and its protection has been the goal of the people who run empires from time immemorial and Chomsky is simply repeating the sad litany of the empire's crimes so that you dear reader might have the opportunity to leave the corporate consumer system and do something with your life that is truly useful instead of wasting it gunning down poor foreigners or paying others to do it for you.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Y Woodman Brown
live & let live
04:54 PM on 02/15/2012
The 'decline' of America's wealth, up to 1970, from 50% to 25% of world total--although inordinately fought against--was quite natural. Victory in WWII led to an unsustainable imbalance of poli-economic powers. It could be maintained only by the constant militaristic crushing of other nations' attempts to simply develop themselves.

It isn't the percentage we hold of the world's wealth which determines the socio-economic worth of America. That other nations both increase their national wealth and raise their standards of living is a global humanitarian goal. It would be best if--some how--all this earth's population could live a genuinely First World middle-class lifestyle.

A nation's worth is determined by the degree of First World infrastructure, environmental protection, civil rights, health care, education, standard of material living and humane philosophy of conduct it's government can facilitate, it's enterprise can produce and its residents can practice. It is unconscionable capitalism which has corrupted our system of election, our political representatives and allowed lobbyists to control political policy. It has covered its tracks by distracting citizens with entertainment, advertisement and nationalistic propaganda.

Now that the wage and income gaps have widened into obvious chasms, people are now recognizing that they have been duped. Conscientious capitalism can reverse the culpable policies and practices. This popular change however depends on you, on your doing something...boycott something, strike somewhere, march with somebody, protest somehow, write someone--just, in some serious way, take a very strenuous stand.
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kitlevey
American Lion
03:30 PM on 02/15/2012
"Manufacturing Consent" was my introduction to Mr. Chomsky's work in the early 90's. It has been an interesting ride and I am yet to find fault with his reasoning and conclusions. He may well be the best contemporary authority on the economic/political conditions of this country. Glad HP carried his work.
03:04 PM on 02/15/2012
As a response to the fact that a lot of our post World War II foreign policy had to do with trying to halt the march of communism, a number of commenters here have essentially said "What's the matter with communism?" The fact that people can ask that question after the track record compiled by communism WHEREVER it has been applied shows the insanity of these people.
11:22 AM on 02/16/2012
u didn't answer their question, though. u just acted like it's obvious communism has done terrible things. but apparently you can't be bothered to list ONE thing. FAIL.

anyway, look at what america has done all over Earth. insanity. and i'm a proud American but come on, man. communism's major threat to us is simply that we want to run Earth and they were a threat to that. period. it's not about the "ism" at all it's just simple battles for dominance.
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02:20 PM on 02/15/2012
I wi8sh I could disagree with Chomsky on this but he is spot on.
AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
02:04 PM on 02/15/2012
Read the article I am reminded of composers' insider joke stating that," Mozart only wrote one concerto."
11:20 PM on 02/15/2012
No one's listening...
AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
02:24 AM on 02/16/2012
You read. Commented on it, and then posted no one is listening... lol.. Logic.. Try it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
montreauxg
Control freaks are losing control
01:55 PM on 02/15/2012
I had the pleasure to hear Dr. Chomsky's lecture on geopolitics at Beijing University 2 years ago and was happy when he included China's aggression against Tibet and Taiwan with his criticism of American hegemony in Iraq and Afghanistan. I also visited the American War Crimes Musuem in Ho Chi Minh City, found the documentation to be undeniable, and it remains one of the most eye-opening experiences in my life (along with reading Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent). In other words, I owe a debt of gratitude to Chomsky and remain a huge fan.

That said, one must challenge one's first principles on occasion to be rigorously objective and avoid the easy pitfalls of subjective bias. While Chomksy rightly critiques government mouthpieces on the issues of foreign invasion, he then unquestioningly cites these same sources as beyond reproach on issues like climate change, deregulation and taxation. The contradiction reveals a logical fallacy hidden from Chomsky's huge brain. He is undeniably an authority on linguistics and geopolitics, but his biases in economics and climate science need to be challenged.
05:02 PM on 02/15/2012
I don't agree. He nailed it.
AllegroTroppo
Appeaser feeds crocodile hopes to be eaten last
06:41 PM on 02/15/2012
Chomsky is on record supporting Chinese invasion of Tibet.
Obviously, now that China has a relatively good relationship with U.S. Chinese can do nothing right by him.
11:35 AM on 02/16/2012
where is he on record SUPPORTING the chinese invasion of tibet? has he changed his opinion since then?

basically, i don't believe you. but having searched through google and found no evidence either way, i concede that this is possible. other than our involvement in world war 2 i've never heard chomsky support any military action by anybody.
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Chopin
Multiply the truth. Speak truth through power.
11:17 AM on 02/15/2012
As part of the cumulative confirming evidence of decline of America, has anybody noticed and connected the most recent dots of news about the bigbanks muscling into the "for private profit" educational sector and the "for private profit" prison business ?

This tentative conclusion might not be a stretch --- the recently approved NDAA law, the for-profit educational dumbing down process, and the burgeoning for-profit prison business make it all seem like the majority of 99% Americans are now becoming a targetted liability, ... looking like Greece. Average Americans cannot take on any more personal or national debts to keep afloat the credit bubble business in the financialization of the economy. When bigmoney gets into making multi-trillion dollars derivative bets on the economy crapping out, and controls dumbing down and locking up people, there is nowhere for this nation's collective future but downwards. America is due for a complete "paradyme shift" in morality, economics, politics, and humanity. Noam Chomsky is part of enabling the necessary transformation, by helping average people to understand it first.
05:05 PM on 02/15/2012
The banking industry (which I do not support) has to invest the money somewhere. We have enough factories here, even after de-industrialization probably for our own consumption, and worldwide we have a surplus. The problem is for-profit prisons and education. Who owns stock in them is pretty irrelevant. But it certainly indicates what's coming next.
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Chopin
Multiply the truth. Speak truth through power.
06:07 PM on 02/15/2012
rosa999: "The problem is for-profit prisons and education. Who owns stock in them is pretty irrelevant­. But it certainly indicates what's coming next."

We agree on what the problem is. But ownership of prisons "irrelevant" ? Not so, and strongly not so, because private ownership for profit maximization automatically, directly or indirectly injects a strong profit incentive to MAXIMIZE prison population, for similar motivational reasons as the Military-Industrial-Complex. That affects operational aspects such as recidivism. Simply imagine a prison warden, or board of directors, or even individual prison guards or medical personnel, having unacknowledged hidden incentives (like performance bonus and career security) to increase or maximize the probability of any ex-convict on parole returning on repeat offense. There would be endless ways in which that prison sentences would become longer, more indiscriminate, more repetitive, ... in other words prisons would mushroom like virulent cancers in society.

If anyone regards this prospect as speculative, there are actual precedents of that happening. There was a judge (in some midwestern state?) in the news recently exposed for giving harsh sentences, on recidivism, etc., with ownership participation in a private prison network. I can't remember the link or details of it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DasBoot
I accidentally cross-dressed today.
07:49 PM on 02/15/2012
Mmh, I see a great need to invest in things such as alternative energy. I would rather have banks invest in that then in prison and cup cake colleges.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
muck-raker
give me liberty or give me death
05:14 AM on 02/16/2012
good morning, I can not find you post of last nite..I went to a small Philadelphia College and I was not aware of any sit ins at that time. This was the early to middle 1960's

http://occupycolleges.org/2011/10/24/mic-check-occupy-colleges-plans-solidarity-teach-ins-nov-2-3/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Robert Blackburn
11:13 AM on 02/15/2012
When we finally program the human mind in the computer, we will have understood far more about that mind than we do now. When we build a working model of the human mind, we will have come to understand the abstract mind's own 'survival' program well enough to program it (Marvin Minsky at MIT writes that no such survival program exists in the human mind). When we finally understand how our 'survival' program functions, we will see what we have done to that functioning in society with our beliefs and fixed values. When we are able to program the human mind in the computer, we will see how we've tricked the mind into working for the survival of all manner of things at the expense of itself and reason. We will program the mind soon, and this will begin the 'Age of Reason.'
See: http://revolutionofreason.com and http://www.youtube.com/RobertLBlackburn
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12:06 PM on 02/15/2012
Well Robert, you have got my attention here. I agree that we live in a time of insanity and a reveloution of the mind is needed. My field is philosophy and I will do my best to grasp what you are saying using the links on your post.
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kitlevey
American Lion
01:55 PM on 02/15/2012
Ideas along these lines, once thought of and treated like science fiction, have very real potential for fruition. Once all of the power and money is concentrated, it will rule all aspects of those that are left powerless to do the bidding. As those minions are found to be objectionable servants, mind programming becomes a viable alternative to the expense of oversight and punishment.

The key to understanding the viability of such a future is the monitoring and analysis of trends. A brilliant example of "the new slave" trend is the paid slaves in China now employed by Apple. At a hefty salary of $1 per hour, room & board (no, this isn't the Hilton), the Chinese company execs have taken to stringing nets between buildings in an attempt to minimize the suicide rates and associated press coverage at these factories.

We are in the middle of all the evidence required to convince the last remaining well educated among us that this path is real and being perpetrated by the corporate domination of the world.

Coming soon, to a neighborhood near you.
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Robert Blackburn
05:28 PM on 02/15/2012
I don't advocate programming minds in humans, but rather building a program in the computer that thinks like humans - well, as close to humans as you can with a machine at this time.