Ringside
There was a moment, when the debate ended and the wives came up on stage, where I actually knew, or thought I knew, who had won. I'm sorry to say it, but it was John McCain. McCain had come into the debate having spent the week as the King of the Loose Screws, but he got through the night without a sign of his irrational behavior, and that seemed like a big win for him.
I was, by the way, the least pessimistic person in the room where we watched the debate, a room full of blue-state pinkos, and our hearts had collectively sunk as we watched Obama miss opportunity after opportunity to score a knockout punch -- as the men in the room tended to put it. (Women are at a decided disadvantage in conversations of this sort: we have no interest whatsoever in the resemblance of presidential candidates to people like Rocky Marciano and Archie Moore.) Because everyone in the room was so depressed and simultaneously full of manly boxing references, I felt guilty even mentioning my concerns about Obama's shirt, which was too loose around his neck, and which was another reason why I thought he had lost the debate -- that, along with his incredibly irritating habit of closing his eyes while standing up.
Anyway, as I say, the impression that McCain had won lasted about a minute, when we began flipping through the stations expecting all our fears to be validated by the dozens of commentators ready to offer their views. To our amazement, the only overlap between our room and the pundits were the boxing references. Obama had won. Even the people who thought McCain had won more rounds than Obama thought Obama had won. McCain had been patronizing. He'd referred to Pakistan as a failed state, which turned out to be untrue. Even Charles Krauthammer thought Obama had done fine. A focus group of undecided voters in Nevada on the Fox Channel (Fox!) had responded more positively to Obama than to McCain.
Could this possibly be true? I don't know. But I decided to do the only thing I could under the circumstances: stop watching the pundits on television for fear it would all change again. They will be on all night discussing the heavyweight championship of the world, but I am going to sleep.
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"Presidential," Nora, is the key here. Obama looked and acted "presidential." If Obama had suddenly burned with an intense fury that all of us feel when thinking about the Bush years, he would have been decried by the media as "an angry black" man, and you and your cronies would have rued his missed chance to seize the higher ground.
That was only the 1st debate, ostensibly it was to be on McCain's perceived "strength" of foreign policy. Obama won the night and most polls back this up. In the next two debates, Obama will continue to tighten the screws.
Obama's astute, patient, well-planned campaign will continue to gain ground and McCain's Bullsh1t Express will continue to fly off the rails.
Thank you "YELLOWPANTIES".
HERE HERE !!!
good post. He's damned if he does and damned if he don't.
The reason he does so well is because he's very intelligent, but he listens to his gut. He's almost like a jazz musician picking up on tempo changes and chord progressions.
I wanted him to verbally knock the crap out of McCain a few times (like Nora's friends), but I think he played it right. He did what he needed to do. Anything more might have been too much.
These guys have been at it for a long time.We know what they're going to say,what their positions are,etc.
But this is the first time they have been together on the same stage,side by side,and Obama looked more "presidential" than McCain.
When a crisis erupts,who do you want in charge - a guy who's all over the map,seeming to not know what to do - or the guy who you see conferring with his financial team,cool,calm,and level-headed?
Ms. Ephron, although I respectfully disagree that McCain won, I do understand your point. For the most part, presidential campaigns and in fact, the machinery of our government itself, is concealed behind a self-serving illusion. This illusion is fostered by what we all refer to as "spin". As long as the "people" are swayed to believe the illusion, the realities of the machine become irrelevant. If you say McCain won the debate enough times, the illusion will manifest itself, at least in the eyes of those who are willing to believe it.
Unfortunately, and I hate to say it, the American people are less than an alert and informed citizenry because somehow, somewhere along the way, a large part of our society has come to accept mediocrity and you need only look at the television lineups to witness the pacification of our collective, thinking minds.
What does remain in our favor, however, is that there are those among us who retain the most precious asset we have as Americans -- the ability to think and question our government and voice our opinions and we can only hope that by doing so, we will convince one more of our fellow citizens to turn off American Idol and do the same.
"It's his to lose" or "Obama did what he had to do." But what about reality? The human race precariously imbedded in the natural world? Life and death? Does Obama live in a moderate, diffident Orwellian world, a limpid flip-side of the CheneyBush nightmare? The Republicans brought the world down on us and it appears from the transfer of wealth that (it) was PLANNED. There could now be massive hunger and riots. What is Obama going to do then, tell us to "cool it"? There are 80 million just over the poverty line and over 40 million below it. The American people have been disempowered by a handful of strangers who live in castles. We don't blame Obama if he sees many Americans as willfully ignorant, disposable labor and cannon fodder - but what about THE REST OF US. The Administration funded the slaughter of Russians in the State of Georgia and possibly pre-empted WWIII. The Republican monarchists and corporate fascists have destroyed the Financial Base of the United States. But Obama doesn't seem to give a sh-t. Without the Democrats leading a passionate revolt against all this lying, murder, and theivery, no one will ever trust us in the real world.
Someone said that, In order for Obama to get elected, he has to appear as the most moderate black man in all of Ame(R)ica ... Maybe that's true and if so, maybe Obama knows it also ...
Snerd
Hysteria is not going to help the situation. We have all had our nervous systems incessantly ramped up by the current administration, who rely on the manipulation of fear to move their agenda forward. (Read The Shock Doctrine)
Obama doesn't like the situation we're in, has tried repeatedly to warn about it, and has worked diligently to offer alternative solutions over the past two years. But, he is also a pragmatist. His current approach is: here we now are, so what do we do about it. It is Obama who, without "suspending" his campaign, worked for six days to craft and vigorously advocate for protections to assure the least harm to taxpayers. They are currently affixed to the agreement. Now it is up to us to make certain that they are not stripped from the agreement!
In contrast, McCain pursued a drama-queen (and dishonest) approach, nearly derailing the negotiation process.
Stop viewing things through the lens of old-style politics, and begin to see more clearly that Obama offers us a visionary, wise, and constructive approach to the monumental problems we face. And, start doing your own part in contributing to the solutions. Complaining is so 20th century. Let's ALL get to work to shift the current paradigm!
Finally, someone has put forward the idea, that the candidate that has consistently progressed in the campaign, may actually have an idea of how to accomplish his goal. All the advice from people that have forgotten that we have LOST for a whole generation, not withstanding. Think. Then think outside the box.
What has failed to work for White males for a generation WILL fail to work for a Black candidate,.. evolve damn it.
0bama isn't a magician and as much as he would like to fix every problem created by bush & co it's impossible. I know he is very smart, his intentions are good, his heart is in the right place and he wants to do what is best for the American people. Think you can do a better job julianne? Go for it, all you seem to have is criticism.
I understand your anger,julianne,but surely you realize that Obama WOULD NOT GET ELECTED if he told the DOUBLE TRUTH.
Maybe there is hope for this country yet.
"John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge. The war started in 2003, and at the time when the war started, you said it was going to be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong. And so my question is of judgment ..."
– Barack Obama
Hands down my favorite dialoge from the debate!! Also the ONLY time either of the candidates addressed the other without going through the mediator or cameras.
I liked, "you're singing songs about bombing Iran."
I can't believe that anyone who followed the Primaries hasn't figured Obama out yet.
Obama is not a "knockout blow" fighter. Instead, he likes to take a long, well-strategized path to victory.
Before Iowa, Obama's staff examined the map and estimated the number of delegates they needed to win the nomination. This was leaked to the press after Super Tuesday, and through South Dakota, Obama was within 3% of his early estimate in nearly every state.
Obama may tend to be slow to react to attacks and changes, but he has the big picture in mind at all times. While his opponents may through Kitchen Sink or Celebrity Ads at him, he remains calm and steady. While McCain was trying yet another gamble last week, Obama kept a low profile and let McCain make a fool out of himself.
Obama made a boring but smart pick for VP. McCain swung for the fences and now his running mate is the punchline of SNL and the late night chat hosts.
The result has been a surprisingly stead 5 point lead in the polls, but an amazing ground game that could yield +2 in every battleground state on Election Day.
No, Nora, he did not land a killing blow, but McCain lost his best chance to catch up in the race
BTW, the polls showed Obama a solid winner, and we may see him tick up in the polls again after this weekend.
Thanks--like the Candidate himself, a thoughtful and diplomatic statement. Instead of exploiting fear, you/he keep it grounded, with an eye to the future.
I think Obama won big among soft McCainers, He lost with his followers, so what? to win a debate is to get some guys from Mc Cain to his camp. Being more agresive? No good, If somebody knows how to bring white people to vote for him is Obama. His soft approach is directed toward some of the Mc Cain people. Smart move. "John, I agree 100%" is a good move; it weakens some of the soft Mc Cain voters. He is having a very difficult time with getting over 50% of the votes; the only way to keep growing is by taking some of Mc Cain voters. Lets see if it work in the polls.
Absolutely! People just want to see drama and sell newspapers or get more hits on their articles. The punditry is about escalating this result, rather than what is best for the country-- i.e. getting Obama elected.
Obama stands firmly in his own truth, and everyone else's sh*t (lack of integrity, dishonesty, et al) rises to the surface to be revealed.
During the debate, McCain's character was revealed through his facial expressions and his overall deMEANor. It was louder than words.
"Obama made a boring but smart pick for VP. McCain swung for the fences and now his running mate is the punchline of SNL and the late night chat hosts."
Guys who swing for the fences all the time strike out a lot. McCain, the addicted gambler, is always looking for the big play, the big score, the home run, the Hail Mary pass for a touchdown. We do NOT want somebody with that mentality as C-in-C.
Unlike McCain who wants to continue to govern for 1/2 the country, Obama wants to be president for all of us. His demeanor, manners and temperament throughout the debate underscored this. I agree with the person who commented that this is the first time many folks started paying much attention to the election, but I'll go further and state that it was likely the first time many GOPers had paid any attention to Obama at all.
A key difference between progressives and conservatives is we are by nature more likely to watch/listen to them (hence the ratings for Palin's and McCain's convention speeches which I will bet came from a lot of folks like me who do NOT support them tuning in to see what they had to say). My experience is that the other side does not do this - certainly not in large numbers.
McCain played the Al Gore 2000 playbook with groans, sighs, grimaces, and worst of all...NOT ONCE did he look Senator Obama in the eye, or even directly address him. At the end of the debate it was the Obamas who went over to the McCain's. The Obama's were cordial and polite because that's the kind of people they are. Who's the elitist now? I think John and Cindy made that abundantly clear.
Obama did exactly what he needed to do in this debate. He knew that a lot of voters are just now tuning into the race, and for him to be overly harsh would have been a mistake. If you have been following this race at all, you know that he has ramped up his campaign over time. He's got two debates to go. If he hold true to his methods, he will get tougher and tougher on McCain. It's a good strategy for Obama. An overly aggressive AA candidate is going to scare voters.
Nora, the proof is in the pudding - look at the polls after the debate. Obama knows what he's doing and how to broaden his support - not just excite his base (which is already strongly behind him). To use his own metaphor - "one doesn't use an axe when its better to apply a scapel".
It's so odd - several of my friends/relatives have sent me articles which are basically negative press for obama, saying in the emails, "well, i guess we'll see a dip in the polls now!" or something similar. and these are all people who are going to vote FOR obama! i've told them to stop spreading negative messages around about the candidate they actually mean to support, as it can't to lead to anything good in a neck-and-neck race. so i don't know if it's really worthwhile not being publicly supportive of our own candidate.
that said, nora, i did actually think people would view mccain as the winner, initially. he was condescending, patronizing, and just plain mean. sadly, given the way the last 8 years have gone, i thought that might be what americans are looking for. then the polls and reviews started coming out, and it turns out that american people think these *are* negative qualities in a leader, that john mccain was not being professional or courteous, and that americans *care* about this! i was overjoyed. great. so ALL of us are really ready for a change. now let's keep doing everything we can to make sure it happens!
I totally agree with you....I wish people would just keep their complaints to themselves or do it privately. Sen O bama is constantly being attacked from the right, he doesn't need his own team beating him down. I've made a conscience decision to reframe from making negative or derogatroy remarks about my candidate of choice (Sen O bama). This reminds me of that hard to please spouse, no matter what you do, it's NEVER enough!
It's the MSM again propping McCain up with pundits who support McCain. I keep telling people to quit giving these media outlets rating which translate into money, big money. Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are the only true checks and balances on MSM. Watching them once a day is enough. It they lose viewers they will get the point.
Here are polls from the people, not the pundits:
www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/26/debate-reviews-go-to-obam_n_129803.html
They've already lost me. I used to Tivo both ABC and NBC nightly news, but got so sick of the relentless McCain excuse making that I canceled the Season Pass. Granted I'm not nor have I ever been a Nielsen Family, but they do gather aggregate data from Tivo boxes and my Tivo is ALWAYS tuned to KO, RM and just before bed...Stewart and Colbert.
Two points Nora. Firstly, your perceptions were affected by the group you were with. Your group of partisans did not want a debate but for Obama to use McCain as his pinata. Secondly, the debate was not about you but about those undecideds sitting on the fence. Obama did his job superbly by getting a passel of them to join the party.
It's kind of an omen. Obama's too big collar around his neck reminds me of the inexperienced, definitely UNVETTED yound man who wants to be grown up and dresses in his father's shirt.
Picky-Picky, are you even old enough to vote? and if style is the only issue you look for in a candidate then you must be on of those "living the good life" people who never have to worry about losing your job, your home, or your food.
Obama - with a less than tight collar - suggested to me that he was NOT A FAT CAT!
Other than that - overall demeanor was definitely in favor of Obama: Cool, calm, collected, and in charge of himself, his message, and his material.
McCain by contrast was mean and crotchety - he mumbled and moaned his way through every exchange, and refused to listen to the mediator or recognize Obama at all.
Obama was a statesman. McCain - just old.
It is a good thing that debates are not usually decided by standing up improperly or wearing loose collared shirts? No sign of irrational behavior from McCain? Grumbling at the podium? Mumbling at the end of exchanges? Refusing to even look at his opponent? He made the blustery Ahmedinejad look like a cuddle bear.
Yes...remember when Bush had that square thing in his suit in the debates? That made absolutely no difference in the outcome. McCain's borderline surly behavior also reminds me of a young man...or a bitter old vet...
I haven't slept for two days, and sucked when I played tennis yesterday. I know WHY now. I AM BESIDE MYSELF ABOUT THIS ELECTION.
When is Obama going to get the passion, resolve and fire in the belly to demonstrate to the American people how misguided, arrogant and out of touch the Mc Cain camp really is about every major issue.?
I cannot even begin to articulate the frustration I feel. Obama owes this country and the folks here, a true characterization of the inadequacies of McCain. GET ON WITH IT BARACK.....I am going nutty and I am sure other democrats feel exactly as I do. Please, we cannot let them have the White House again.
I have two granddaughters and I want them to have a good life....a fair life. They are the fortunate ones, as their parents do not suffer from financial problems and they will have the opportunity
for education, good health care etc. .... but their life will only have meaning and substance if they live in a country where everyone is afforded at LEAST the opportunity for basics.
It is so difficult to be happy when you see others suffering.....true joy only comes when we all are beneficiaries.
PLEASE PLEASE...do something OBAMA....NOW
No, YOU need to stop. If you trust Obama to be the leader of this nation, then trust him to be the leader of his campaign. These people are SMART. They know what works and what doesn't. Obama would have come off as superior, mean and scarey to a lot of undecided voters who are JUST NOW paying attention. They didn't watch much of the conventions and are far more familiar with McCain than Obama. He needs to keep introducing himself to these people and show them he has a presidential quality. If he starts shouting at McCain, they will think he is one who is unhinged. You've been following the campaign in all its minutia and so you are hyper-aware of all that he can do. Relax. Let his strategy play out and thereby WIN. Stop second guessing and stop expecting all those undecided voters (who are the ones who actually decide this thing) to feel the same way you do. THEY DON'T.
Thank you, thank you!
I could not agree more. Obama knows what he's doing. Probably McCains biggest problems is that he is letting his campaign try to morph him into something he is not, and now he has destroyed his brand and is nothing but a joke. Remember the fable about the Tortoise and the Hare? When Obama was down in the polls during Palinmania, everyone was freaking out (including me), and Obama told everyone to "stop hyperventilating!". I now see the results of his wisdom and steady hand, and will not doubt him again.
If he keeps loosing with his own and winning some Mc Cainers, Obama will win, getting more than 50% seems very dificult for him. Obama knows a lot and is a natural politician I hope that he will get some soft Mc Cain voters, like 5% will change the election. He should go softer and softer on McCain.
Remember what I say (Palin is come back girl) they are lowering expectations with Palin and I bet she will beat Biden, She is smart and the coaching have been going on for weeks, they are planning a Palin home run. Palin is obviously smarter and better prepared than the actual president Bush. Will they wired her as the did with Bush?
Bravo!
Exactly what needed to be said!
Obama *is* calm and unruffled!
We've had enough of the 'lone gunman' leader to last a good few generations - lets get back to statesman-like statesmen for president!
I feel ya. I want to see blood, too. I want zingers. I want McCain put down. I want Obama to articulate my/our anger of the past 8 years. BUT, I also see the tortoise/hare strategy of the Obama campaign - steady goes the course wins the race. And so far it's working. I also see Obama not touching the angry-black man stereotype with a ten foot pole; there are far too many Americans waiting for that small window to vote for McCain. sad.
Maybe you need to take a look at the polls. What he is doing is working. Take a deep breath and stop worrying about what you think Obama should do, and instead focus on what you should do. You can only control the affect of one person on this election, and that's yourself.
It used to just be the job of the MSM to disuade Americans from their initial reaction that the Democratic candidate won. They did it in 2000 and 2004, after both Democrats clearly won the first debate. But now it seems the job of Democrats and Liberal bloggers too to convince us that the Democratic candidate, supposedly their candidate (ask Bill Clinton), lost in the face of poll after poll say otherwise. And Democrats wonder why we lose every four years.
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