Mormon and Catholic Churches Complain About Being the Target of Prop 8 Protests

Hypocrisy much? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unhappy about the fact that the media spotlight is trained on its participation in making Prop 8 happen.

In an official statement on the church's web site, bearing false witness and hypocrisy is the order of the day.

It is disturbing that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is being singled out for speaking up as part of its democratic right in a free election.

Members of the Church in California and millions of others from every faith, ethnicity and political affiliation who voted for Proposition 8 exercised the most sacrosanct and individual rights in the United States -- that of free expression and voting.

While those who disagree with our position on Proposition 8 have the right to make their feelings known, it is wrong to target the Church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process.

Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over same-sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information.

Bzzt. Wrong answer. The people protesting the church's significant role in an another state's democratic process -- members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave millions of dollars to remove the civil rights of human beings -- are merely exercising their right to free speech to highlight that role.

And what is this "erroneous information"? Who knows, the church doesn't say. The amount of hot air and vapid defensiveness from an institution that has a history of bigotry and oppression against black people has earned every second of this bad press brought on by this media exposure and demonstrations. That the Mormons have trained that bigotry onto gay and lesbian families only confirms that the LDS is what is erroneous and it is repeating that sorry history.

No one is telling the church and its membership not to believe whatever they want to believe about same-sex marriage, but they cannot foment discrimination and conflate church and state in their support of Proposition 8. The sole reason for backing the amendment is faith-based. That has nothing to do with civil law or government -- at least not in this country.

If the LDS can, in the minds of its followers, be inspired by God to take away the civil rights of people in another state, then gay and lesbian families (wouldn't they also be children of God, or are they not human to the LDS?) and their supporters, inspired by the Constitution, can call for the boycott of the state of Utah, where this hate was fomented and bankrolled. Tourism brings in $6 billion a year to Utah -- the state government and businesses in your state will not look kindly upon this rogue mini-theocracy hitting the bottom line of the state coffers.

And the Catholic church is also lying boldly:

Meanwhile, the Roman Catholic Church was also a target for supporting Proposition 8.

"Proposition 8 is not against any group in our society. Its sole focus is on preserving God's plan for people living upon this earth throughout time," Cardinal Roger Mahony, archbishop of the Diocese of Los Angeles, said in a statement Thursday.

WTF? Wait a minute. Prop 8 just removed an existing right from one specific group of people. There's no way to whitewash this. There's no spin that takes away the fact that religious institutions that backed Proposition 8 did so because of their faith -- interfering with the laws of California.

Those laws do not correspond to anything taught from a holy book, or answer to any supreme being these churches preach about.

These extremist statements and positions are nothing less than a call to establish a theocracy. Americans, regardless of their sexual orientation, should be moved to name the behavior of these institutions for what it is -- and question their tax-exempt status.

Think of what the millions of dollars poured into California's Prop 8 effort could have done on to help the homeless, the working poor, the people suffering in the imploding economy. Instead, here we see professed people of faith turning a blind eye to the less fortunate to focus on obliterating the separation of church and state using bigotry.

If it's bad PR for the churches, they brought it upon themselves.

Related:
* The N-bomb is dropped on black passersby at Prop 8 protests
* DKos: Facts Belie the Scapegoating of Black People for Proposition 8
* Ballot initiatives provide a wake up call to the LGBT community about race
* The religious right promises more amendments, do we have a plan?

Comments

[lindastrawberry]

thankyou for writing this. i am so glad this is not going away. EQUAL RIGHTS is the issue. and i hope the gay community never stops fighting for their rights. I will always stand behind them.

[Clarknt67]

Speaking of Kristallnacht, on the recent anniversary, Jewish leaders have come out swinging at the Mormons. The issue? LDS's posthumous baptizing jewish holocaust victims, without survivor's permission into the LDS faith.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1036093.html

"Holocaust survivors said Monday they are through trying to negotiate with the Mormon Church over posthumous baptisms of Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps, saying the church has repeatedly violated a 13-year-old agreement barring the practice.

Ernest Michel, honorary chairman of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors, said at a news conference in New York City on Monday, "Baptism of a Jewish Holocaust victim and then merely removing that name from the database is just not acceptable," said Michel, whose parents died at Auschwitz. He spoke on the 70th anniversary of Kristallnacht, the Nazi-incited riots against Jews.

"We ask you to respect us and our Judaism just as we respect your religion," Michel said in a statement released ahead of the news conference. "We ask you to leave our six million Jews, all victims of the Holocaust, alone, they suffered enough."

These people are serious nutcases. The Jews have been negotiating with them for 14 years. The result? "FRUITLESS"

[Clarknt67]

And another tomorrow in NYC. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=33598248873#/event.php?eid=57450719688

[indyleftist]

It seems to me that people should be mad at Obama and the democratic party just as much as the mormons. They don't support homosexual rights eithe
When Joe Biden and Sarah Palin said they had the same policy on gay rights in the debate I didn't hear a peep out of most the of the democrats.

[mercury613]

That's a gross oversimplification of what was actually said. This is from the debate transcript:

Ifil: Let's try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?

Biden: No. Barack Obama, nor I support redefining from a civil side, what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically a decision that is to be left to the faiths and people who practice their faiths, determination what you call it. The bottom line is, I'm glad to hear the Governor, I'll her her at her word, obviously. That she thinks there should be no civil rights distinction -- none whatsoever, between a committed gay couple and a committed heterosexual couple. If that's the case, we really don't have a difference.

Ifil: [to Palin] Is that what you said?

Palin: Uh, your question to him was whether he supported gay marriage. And my answer is the same as his in -- that I do not.

Ifil: Wonderful, you agree....
------------------------------------------

Palin skirted the question (as usual). Neither she nor Biden support legalizing same-sex marriage, but the similarities end there.

[indyleftist]

Exactly, Biden and Palin agree on the legal status of homosexuals
The same agreement that the state of California has

On a side note: its really sad how Gwen Ifil asked the question
Let's try to avoid substance? Are she supposed to be a journalist?

[antaeus]

BOYCOTT UTAH

[rsmoss]

First of all, only about 10% of those in California who voted in favor of Prop 8 were LDS. Since over 70% of California's African-Americans voted in favor, I suppose we should all be anti-black now. Proposition 8 was voted in by 52% of the population of California, not Utah. Furthermore, the LDS Church simply took a moral stand, not a political stand. Those of you who can remember what a church is like from the inside might faintly understand that one of the things that churches do is teach morals! No one from Utah forced anything on the people of California.
As for the LGBT "movement" - in my opinion, they are a very small minority who make a lot of noise to get what they want. They choose to be "in your face" constantly, but when you return the favor you are denying them their rights. The most interesting thing is that the very rights that they demand they are more than happy to ignore or to deny to others. True hypocrisy, anyone?

[PSM42]

Thanks for that LDS talking point. Don't bother next time.

[PSM42]

Thanks for that LDS talking point. Fuhgedabadit.

[rsmoss]

Thank you for the scathingly brilliant retort. I'm devastated.

[antaeus]

Boycott Utah.

[skatscan]

It's hard to beat the Mormons when it comes to being "in your face". They travel the world to be "in the face" of those who haven't been exposed to the "Book of Mormon" AKA the "Godfather 3" of biblical teachings.

They were aggressive in selling Prop 8 and threatened many businesses who would appose Prop 8, all while sitting in the gilded palaces of Salt Lake City. LDSers knew that the only "desirable" trait African Americans have in their opinion is their discomfort with gays.

[sfsilver]

calling out Mormons, Catholics, the African American Community, Evangelicals and all others that participated in the Yes on 8 campaign, pointing out their bald faced bigotry, their hypocrisy, shining a light on their grotesque perversion of the democratic process to take away rights from one group is not discriminating against them. I know they absoutley thrive on protraying themselves as victims of imagined religious intolerance when they are the standard bearers of power, but they need to take their medicine right now.

THe protests and ager are an appropriate response. I happily marched and waved my signs in SF on Friday and at the Oakland Temple on Sunday.

I do think that the LGBT community (which I am a proud member of) needs to redirect our energies in the coming weeks to more productive efforts than boycotts on Utah and tax exempt status for Mormons. I want us to work for the whole package of civil rights that are still being denied to us on a federal level. We need to block the efforts and organize against the Prop 8 people who are even now traveling to a state near you to role back Gay rights in every state. We have to strategize and come to a clear thoughtful achievable set of goals. We have work for national mobilization of the community becasue this is bigger than California.

[LuckyG]

As a sister in this movement (mom of gay son) I agree with you - They ( Mormons, Catholics, the African American Community, Evangelicals ) are NOT the victims of anything.

We absolutely need national attention to equality - not just here in CA. As I have said, and continue to say - this isn't even something that should have been put to a vote. Not this, and not the stupid one in Arkansas banning adoption to unmarried couples.

We need to unite our friends, family, coworkers and everyone else that will listen.

I have a dream.

I have a dream that my son has the same rights as I do.

[ozzie]

Please don't include "the African American Community" in this. It was a percentage of that community, not the entire community.

While we're at it, maybe we should say that the leadership of these Churches are to blame, not necessarily the people who make up the Church. I know plenty of Catholics who support gay marriage.

These might sound like semantics, but there is really no point in building up divisions between us which will be more hurtful than productive.

[gisellestwocents]

I would propose another Proposition. One stating that in the interests of providing equal protection to all of the citizens of the state of California, a union between two same sexed individuals shall be deemed a civil union and shall provide the parties involved the same legal rights and responsibiliteis as a marriage between individuals of different sexes and furthermore that such terms may be used interchangabley and have the same legal effect in all legal documents and proceedings..

"Marriage" is just a word. Let the church have their word. Make the word a non-issue. Make the argument about civil rights. That's my advice.

[gisellestwocents]

Blaming AAs for Prop 8 passage ignores all of the other races -- white, hispanic, asian, etc. that voted yes and whose numbers created a greater impact on the totals.

#Example: 1000 voters, 10 percent black

70% of 100 = 70 yes votes from Blacks
(Low balling it) 48% of 900 = 432 Total yes votes 502

Black voters may have been sufficient to impact the results; but not to create it.

And there do happen to be black LGBT people. So let's not make this a race discussion. That is pointless and unfair.

Based on my knowledge of black people and the ones that I have discussed the issue with, those who were not necessarily in favor of gay "marriage" would probably comprise most of the 80,000 or so voters who didn't even respond to the issue. Not necessarily being in favor of gay marriage, but not wanting to be controlling of others either. Also, exit poll data is very unreliable. Some even may have responded in the affirmative to an exit poller because they didn't want to be open about not supporting the "traditional" definition.

But black people can tend to be very traditional and influenced by the church on those non meat and potatoes issues. So there needs to be OUTREACH to that community, not hostility toward it.

[RTIII]

Ahem. NO, exit polling is VERY reliable. It has a very _very_ low error rate, sufficiently low that exit polls are used to overturn elections throughout the world. Do your research.
.

[thewha]

Seriously, the vengeance expressed here for all things un-homosexual is showing this whole country how intolerant supporters of "NO on 8" can really be.
How about some well-reasoned arguments about why civil rights apply to homosexuality? Born black..obvious argument for civil rights. Born gay..not scientifically proven.

[Nikola Tesla]

In the Loving v. Virginia decision the Supreme Court wrote:

"Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry . . resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v_Virginia#Decision

[thewha]

Then move to Virginia..

[LuckyG]

Are you kidding me? Scientifically proven??

What kind of person CHOOSES to be harrased, picked on, spit at, called derogatory names and discriminated against?

You don't CHOOSE to be gay or straight.

Think about it... did you CHOOSE to be straight? I don't think it ever crossed your mind that you had a choice.

Intolerance to taking away civil rights? You betcha!

[thewha]

I only asked about scientifically proven, not whether you ask to be spit on, etc. And nature chose for me to be straight, as it does with everything except free will choices like homosexuality. So, no proof, no argument..

[odyssey58]

How about some "well-reasoned" arguments about why civil rights should be denied to a whole segment of our population. And please do not use religion in your argument. That would not be "well-reasoned."

[thewha]

I never used religion. Read my post. I am neither religious, nor right wing, republican, or democrat or black. I am just using common sense.

[LuckyG]

Last I learned in History, Civil rights apply to all Americans. (something about all men created equal?)

Amazingly sad you are.

[BandsofBlack]

I am a straight woman who could care less if being gay is a choice or not. I happen to believe it is not. But if I suddenly fell head over heels in love with a woman tomorrow I should have the same right to marry her and spend my life with her as I would to marry a man.

Why do the rest of you care so much?!? I simply don't get it. Despite all the lies being spread by these churches, nobody is going to force churches to marry gay folks to other gay folks. (They already marry plenty of gay folks to straight folks.) Churches don't even have to marry straight people to each other if they don't want to.

[mercury613]

Irony of ironies: protests at mormon temples prevent mormons from getting married:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/queer-town/los-angeles-protests-stop-morm/

I will SOOOOOOOO be participating in as many of these demonstrations as I can.

Get the word out!

[TXfemmom]

You get your nose into politics, then you should face the consequences.

First of all, all the money that the Mormons and the Catholic Church used to get this through, SHOULD THEN BE TAXED. They want to get involved in politics, then NO TAX DEFERMENTS FOR THAT. Personally, I think that churches should be taxed, anyway, excpept FOR LEGITIMATE, AUDITED, and supportable EXPENSES which they expend to feed the poor and elderly, provide housing assistance, medical care, or other things for the same reason.

Everything else, including those behemonth sanctuaries should be taxed.

[EnJoythenext4years]

I was raised as a Mormon. I saw the light 25 years ago and left "the Church" My parents are still Mormon and I asked them if the church leadership told them to support prop 8. They said that nothing was ever handed down from church officials, that the members organized on their own and all contributions came from the members of the church not the church itself. I spent 20 years with those people and never once did the leaders of the church tell people what to do politically. I find it hard to believe what everyone is claiming

With that said, being raised a Mormon has now turned me in to a athesist (spelling??). I was never given the choice to be a mormon. I was forced by my parents. I don't really give a rats ass either way about gay marriage. But, the people have spoken and prop 8 passed with the same margin of victory as Obama beat McCain. You don't see McCain supporters rushing the capitol steps demanding the courts overturn his victory. I believe that they way you are protesting now, is not helping your cause. Lead by example, live extraordinary lives, contribue well to society and be the decent people that you are and you will succeed. But unfortunately, the people have spoken.

[sfsilver]

the facts are well documented (reported in many papers including the Salt Lake Tribune) that messages imploring that membership participate in every way possible to pass Prop 8 came directly from the first presidency. That nearly 75% of the money raised came from Mormons is not an accident or mere coincidence. As a former Mormon you know well that even a gentle suggestion from these doddering old men has enormous influence and power over rank and file Mormons who view them as literally communicating directly with God. Their every word is at the very least implied to be gospel doctrine.

Even assuming that this was some undirected spontaneous expression of homophobia on the part of individual Mormons, it reveals much about how the Mormon church treats and portrays Gays.

None of these things happen in a vacuum

[AppleThief]

So people want to boycott Utah for a law California passed? I guess those crafty Mormons in Salt Lake City forced these poor innocent Californians to vote against their will. If you want to protest the Mormon church or boycott California, go ahead, at least that makes some sort of sense. If your logic is to boycott Utah because the majority of their population is Mormon, can I assume you're also planning on boycotting Italy, Spain, Mexico, and pretty much anywhere else in Latin America because they tend to be Catholic? How about using that anger to get people organized to strike this ban down instead? And California, accept responsibility for your own actions.

[Rrhain]

Right, because being the primary funding source for the "Yes on 8" campaign had absolutely no effect upon its passage.

How do you think the ban is going to get struck down if we don't convince people to reject the actions of the Mormon Church in this matter?

You seem to have a very unitary view of the world, as if people can only do one thing.

[AppleThief]

So you're going to boycott Utah because a majority of citizens are Mormon but you're not going to boycott California because a majority of citizens voted FOR prop 8? Where is the logic in that? Like I said, at least protesting the church or boycotting California has some sort of logic.

And feel free to do two things at once, even if one of them makes no sense.

[sclucie]

Speaking of a unilateral view of the world - you might want to look at the coalition for Prop 8. Catholics gave as much, if not more. You should probably also look at the map of counties which voted for the Prop - it is not fun to look at - but it covers most of California.

I hate that this passed. I think that anyone who is committed should be able to marry and announce it to the world - but you're not facing reality. You need to add Palm Springs, San Diego, and Laguna Beach to the places you plan to boycott. And put that anger into action - not with graffitti - but with law. Reach out. You are not going to get the religious wackos - but you don't need them. You can certainly put together a better campaign than the wack-job ad I saw.

[AnneHope]

Marriage is discrimitory against anyoen who isn't married. No matter sexual orientation. The fact that married people get tax breaks and are able to cover their spouse under an insurance plan is discriminatory towards single people (higher taxes) and couples who don't want to have a faith based marriage or even a civil union to "legally bind" them.

[Flower411]

I say we go into Utah and support a proposition that you can't have more than four children - based on the environmental effects of overpopulation, of course. And if you have more than four, they can't go to public schools, and you pay a fine, no free healthcare, et cetera. See how they like being disenfranchised based on lifestyle.

[SBrooksB]

Flower, may I tweak your definition of "lifestyle" a little? Lifestyle is chosen. Examples: going to clubs, living in the 'burbs, or being vegetarian -- these are lifestyles. Gay people HAVE lifestyles, but BEING gay isn't a lifestyle. Sexual orientation, like skin or eye color, is just a plain old fact, not a choice. Otherwise, nice post!

[brobike42]

Thank you, SB. You're absolutely correct. My friends and relatives who are gay did not choose to be so. They just are. And now a whole state condemns them for what they are. Despicable! I would be ashamed if I lived in California.

[abbeyroad]

i'm getting active and i'm staying active until the mormon church is punished for this.

i will do anything and everything i can for as long as it takes. i'll never stop until they are TAXED and hit HARD in their bank accounts.

please sign this petition and forward it to your friends: www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/

and take the time to read this Time Magazine article on their LDS $30 BILLION DOLLAR EMPIRE: http://www.lds-mormon.com/time.shtml

[Nikola Tesla]

Please don't forget the Catholic Church, White Evangelicals and the Black Church.

All are institutionally bigoted.

[JohnShank]

EXACTLY!!! The sooner we outlaw religion, the better off we'll all be.