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Pamela Kripke

Pamela Kripke

Posted: February 6, 2011 12:59 PM

A few minutes after the start of fourth period, a student whom I do not know walks into my classroom, smiling.

"How are you?" he says. Behind him, another student appears in the doorway, and then, two more. These, I know. One will come again during eighth period.

"I am fine, how are all of you?"

"We are good," they say, "but we were kicked out of Social Studies."

I'm told that sweatshirt hoods need to be tucked into the backs of sweatshirts, in Social Studies class, and during the tucking-in process, one of the boys was having a bit of difficulty, causing the three kids near him to, well, laugh. I imagine that directing such fabric into a rather tight neckline behind your head could prove difficult, or, God forbid, funny. I wonder what pedagogic reason has motivated its concealment. It seems awfully uncomfortable.

"Can we stay here?" the students ask.

This sort of thing happens at least three times a week. Kids come to my room seeking cover, which I gladly give them, along with a little conversation and an English assignment. I feel as if I'm harboring fugitives.

In the past month, infractions warranting expulsion from class and a zero for the day, according to those charged, have included throwing a pencil up into the air and catching it, yawning and talking to the kid in the next seat. Granted, I have not witnessed the particular breaches of conduct and do not know if, in fact, mayhem or loss of life ensued because of them, but I have seen nothing on the news.

This kind of punishment disturbs me for a variety of reasons. First, the notion of punishment at a place of learning disturbs me. If you chastise people, they won't want to learn. If you yell at them and expel them from the premises and never check to see that they are okay, they won't learn, particularly from you. These students, who, by the way, represent a cross-section of kids, are told, simply to leave the class; the teachers do not tell them where to go or when to come back, if at all. At the public middle school where I teach, an entire grade is taught in about 15 portable classrooms. So, when a kid is thrown out, he is thrown out into the street. He can walk off of school property. He can get frostbite. So, the message becomes, "We don't care what happens to you, physically or intellectually." That is not a good message.

Second, the kids who come to my class seem sincerely upset by the practice. They know what warrants unacceptable behavior. They have seen police officers haul kids off in handcuffs for fighting on the playground during lunch. If they were to disrupt a room of people, they would know it. These are not those kinds of kids. The child who yawned is an A student. He got the best grade, out of 400, on an essay writing test. At a school where the majority writes on a third grade level, he should be prized. He told me that many teachers have no patience.

Administrators like to toss around the words, "control," and "manage." Can the teacher "control" the students? Is she proficient at "classroom management?" Are all the sheep with the herd? I think that if a teacher removes a student for playing with a pencil, she has lost. She has failed to think of a solution that serves the student, the class and herself.

It just seems obvious that if a kid likes to manipulate writing implements, it might make sense to stand him up in front of the board with a marker. Make him The Taker of Notes. If a kid yawns, invite him to lead the class in a three-minute stretch. If a kid likes to chat, pair him up with someone who doesn't. You know, use common sense, based on human nature. Child nature. Parent nature. Would you throw your own child into the wilderness and lock the door behind him?

"It's a beautiful day," I say to the kids with the sweatshirt problem. "You know, you could have played around on the field, by that corner where no one can see you. But you came here to work on commas."

"Yeah," they say.

"I think that's great. Thank you for doing that."

At the end of class, I tell them to be smarter than their teachers. You need the Social Studies. Get the Social Studies, even if you have to stick a wad of fleece between your scapula. I give them a parting gift on the way out, their very own "When To Use Commas" hand-out, hot off the press. They thank me and take off down the portable steps, slipping into the crowd on the way to lunch.

 
 
 
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LogicalMathMan
Math, Finance, English, Business Instructor
01:17 PM on 02/08/2011
One simple rule teachers must attempt to follow: I am more cerebral, and will outsmart you.

Classroom management must begin from Day 1. If there are no rules, chaos will ensue. If protocol is merely about removing a student from the classroom, the student has no incentive to abide by the rules. Consequences must be delineated clearly and without favoritism.

Often, just raising your voice can make students conform. However, if a teacher loses his/her cool, GAME OVER!
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kidjudas
My Governor is not smarter than a 5th grader
03:35 PM on 02/07/2011
If someone yawns, lead them in a 3 minute stretch? Really? And what if someone passes gas? Does everyone get a bathroom break? You learn as a teacher to choose your battles. So when I have a kid leap over a desk to start talking smack to another student, that warrants immediate removal. Some kids come to school just for social aspects- never bringing materials or doing work. I'm more concerned with the students that want to be here and the ones who are trying to learn than the ones that don't. And yes, I teach regular ed in a public high school.
03:40 AM on 02/09/2011
"I'm more concerned with the students that want to be here and the ones who are trying to learn than the ones that don't."

I am saddened to hear you say this because it is often the disengaged students who need the most attention not necessarily for their academic achievement but for their self-esteem and self-worth. The students who are trying to learn and want to be there will be successful by virtue of their own motivation regardless of the teacher. The students who don't want to be there need support from the teacher in order to be successful. The issue is much larger than academic achievement. Teaching kids to have an open mind, responsibility, accountability, respect, the importance of education, self-motivation and building strong character are much more important than getting an A in Social Studies and often times the students "don't want to be there" because they are lacking in these, more essential qualities.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
02:26 PM on 02/07/2011
The thing about these dress code rules it that the administration comes up with them. I don't know about you but if the guy who signs my check tells me to enforce dress code I will, whether I agree with it or not.
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bessielil
trying to organize hummingbirds
12:24 PM on 02/07/2011
Do these kids show up during your open period? Are you a resource room teacher? I can't figure out how you have room in usually stuffed classes for four more.

Class room management is an art and schools of ed rarely teach it. However, every school should have a safe haven for kids who are, in effect, declaring their own time out.

Any teacher who kicks a student out of class into the halls or the outdoors is inviting lawsuits. That part astonishes me...not that a kid would like to review commas for a smiling faced educator instead of a hair trigger sourpuss.
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11:50 PM on 02/07/2011
And if the kid is physically/emotionally harrassing other kids and will not stop, and no one will come to deal with him and you are worried about the safety of the other innocent students.....what would you do?
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bessielil
trying to organize hummingbirds
06:37 PM on 02/08/2011
"...and no one will come to deal with him and you are worried about the safety of other innocent students.....
The alleged reasons in the original article seemed to be talking about frequent over reactions on the part of frustrated teachers, yawning and untucked hoodies.
In your scenario, it's important that the student be removed (as opposed to ordered out) yet you are saying that 'no one will come.' That's horrible. If I were in that situation (as I have been many times) I would call the office and say I need help with so and so now. I would also email and cc administrators with the response time or lack thereof. If I kicked a student out to protect my other students...which certainly could happen...the lack of response would be made very public very quickly. I would then start worrying about a furious student in the hallways, possible dangers to other students in the hall, lockers, general property damage, including windows, and so on. People do not realize how complicated classroom management is. I'm very sorry you aren't supported when chaos breaks out. It's inexcusable.
11:54 AM on 02/07/2011
This exact thing has happened to me so many times and I too felt like I was "harboring fugitives" Moreover, I felt a real sense of dread that I'd get caught and reprimanded because of my hospitality. What to do? I taught in a small school where everyone know each other and everyone knew I was the softie who'd let them in. But where was the administration when the office was [should have been] called to come get the kids from the class? Did the administration know I was keeping them?

It became a real mess, but in the end, the kids stayed in my room. I considered it a favor to the teachers who couldn't handle a sneeze and to the administration who would rather turn a blind eye than deal with a problematic student.
http://zerosumruler.wordpress.com/
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JustJoy7
Give your best, expect the best from others.
11:14 AM on 02/07/2011
During my 33 year teaching career, it was a NO NO to just kick the kids out into the hallways. To the office or somewhere specific, with written and/or escorted cover, yes. Get out!!! NOOOOOOO.
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Angie Sullivan
Students are my special interest.
11:01 AM on 02/07/2011
I knew a teacher once who wanted to be all the student's best friend. She gave them lunch and presents. She hid kids that should have been in the office in her room instead of supporting her colleagues. She didn't ever get the teacher's side of the story. As a result, her room was a zoo. None of the other teachers wanted anything to do with her because. . . she was another kid, not a teacher. She loved everyone; but taught no one because no one respected her or learned to listen to her.

Teachership and friendship are two different things.

What scares me about your article . . . is that you imply the teachers who have rules and enforce them do not like or teach students. I would venture that they are probably the ones having more of an affect on students. The majority of students feel unsafe in environment when a teacher is friendly past the normal relationship with a few or too lenient. It's hard to ask teachers to wait their turn if a few manipulators can demand attention or do things they shouldn't at school.
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SeptimusDSX
Always question the obvious.
09:18 AM on 02/07/2011
Not chastising students when necessary seems a bit dodgy. Perhaps your personality is unique, I don't know if everybody can pull it off. Some measure of firmness is necessary in the classroom. How do you do it?
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
10:46 AM on 02/07/2011
I taught for 13 years before going back for advanced degrees and entering teacher education. I never sent a kid out of my class. My kids toed the line inside my class but did so, for the most part, willingly. You do this by choosing your battles carefully and not caving in on those but also by having a sense of humor and being truly present in the learning process with kids. Teachers are there to inspire kids to learn. The true lesson is to get them to want to learn for themselves. That takes knowing your students and helping each one find what interests him/her.

It isn't an easy career. At times it's downright difficult. By the same token it has some of the largest rewards offered anywhere. The sheer joy of watching a child's lightbulb go off for the first time, seeing the look in the eyes, and knowing that the child has learned something for him/herself is amazing.

But as to your exact question, good teachers use inflection, physical presence (they don't sit in one place all the time), humor, changing seating charts if necessary, and most important INTERESTING LESSONS to keep kids engaged.
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Fran Jaime
Yo Soy 132!
02:45 PM on 02/07/2011
It's not about not chastising. Discipline is, of course, necessary but throwing a student out of a classroom does nothing to reinforce discipline, especially for a minor offense. I agree to using common sense in the classroom. I am a teacher and have worked with teenagers extensively. Creativity goes a long way.
07:46 AM on 02/07/2011
I can't for the life of me figure out why the hoods must be tucked in. Is this a battle worth fighting??
09:37 AM on 02/07/2011
Now that's an interesting question, isn't it? It seems an arbitrary show of power, which is doomed to backfire. You really have to worry about some people's judgment.
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Salanry
We are what we pretend to be, so we must be carefu
12:09 PM on 02/07/2011
I've known many teachers who would wage this fight. It's a control thing. They have this "us" vs. "them" thing. Really unproductive. And sad.
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06:19 AM on 02/07/2011
...I feel stupid here and I am not saying what the kids did required this, but what happened to kids being sent to the principal if there was a possible disciplinary issue? This was the way it was when I was in school and when my boys were in school (not that long ago). Parents were notified, a conference was set up to attempt to resolve the issue. Principals and/or vice-principals no longer are involved in disciplinary issues?

...Students should not be kicked out of class with no where to go. Kudos to you, Pamela, for taking these kids into your classroom. I hope you do not pay for your intelligent, objective ways of settling a possible disciplinary issue.
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GlennWatson
Two million fans
05:54 AM on 02/07/2011
Its possible that these little angels did nothing more that yawn. Its also possible they did a whole lot more that that.
01:24 PM on 02/07/2011
seems they were respectful and appreciative while in her classroom; kids sometimes just need a teacher like this one.  An A student in English tossing a pencil in the air is a major offense ... WHY?
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mlaiuppa
Pres. Sarcasm Society. Like we need your approval.
02:57 AM on 02/07/2011
What an ideal class you have. How nice you can provide a refuge for these poor misunderstood innocents. But of course their version of the events is the absolute truth. I don't suppose you've ever gone to their classroom teachers and asked them for their version of the events. Because kids always tell the truth and teachers always lie? Does it occur to you that kids, especially in middle and high school, will bias their narrative to put the teacher in worst light and themselves in the best?

If the day was that beautiful, sweatshirt dude could have taken the shirt off, instead of disrupting the class. You can't imagine a scenario in which A student's yawning might be disruptive and disrespectful to the teacher? I can. Just because he got an A doesn't mean he's an angel. Four of them? That's a tag team. They take turns pushing until they've gone too far. The one that comes back a second time? That's two different teachers. And you still blame the teacher?

As a journalist I would have expected you to do your due diligence. But that isn't the story you wanted to tell.

I'm guessing that social studies teacher had 55 min. to cover a certain amount of material for 36 students. Exactly how much time do you think they should have taken away from the 32 to deal with the four clowns?

I suppose you think teachers' merit pay should be based on value added test scores?
09:31 AM on 02/07/2011
As an educator, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the motivations of the excuses made by those "misguided youths", but I think you're missing the point. The issue here is the inability for some teachers to effectively manage minor infractions in the classroom, which invariably results in larger, more complicated problems and outbursts.

I've seen it a thousand times - a kid refuses to comply with a simple rule like taking his hat off, for instance, and so teacher and student become involved in a match of will until an administrator, or God forbid the police, has to intervene.

The point being then, as teachers and administrators, shouldn't we choose our battles? I know I'm more concerned with what's going into the kid's head than what is sitting on top of it, and that's the point the author is attempting to make, I think.
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
03:20 PM on 02/07/2011
Exacty. My other post was on this point and was scrubbed by the moderators. Good teachers know how to use humor, physical presence, tone of voice, and INTERESTING LESSONS to keep kids on track. They rarely send kids to the office or out of their classes for anything other than a cooling off period (and that is short and the teacher deals with it immediately without the child wandering off).

There are times that kids need help making good decisions and that is part of being a teacher. If the reason you became a teacher is that you like the power of punishing kids, get a new job.
09:54 PM on 02/07/2011
Point well taken. I am an administrator and I get 3 sides to the stories, the kid's side, the teacher's side, and the little ounce of truth that lies in between.
I believe her point was to "Pick your battles". We are working with adolescents who come to school lacking many of the necessary social skills to function in an environment that ask you to say, "Yes Ma'am" or hold doors open for women, or worse, reminding them that you can't or shouldn't say, "What Tha Hell" to a teacher even when you're joking.
I also understand that teachers get frustrated from the everyday antics of some of these kids and they, along with the other students, sometimes need a break. The problem is, some teachers don't see the value in trying to mend that broken relationship. We are the adults and should model what we expect to see from the kids. If you have a teacher that is kicking kids out every hour on the hour, then that is a relationship and classroom management issue. Teaching is an exercise of daily vulnerability, but kicking kids out and hoping they withdraw or get sick is not the answer.
I loved this article and will be forwarding to all who see the value in Love and Logic!
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onwisconsin
Trust women; protect choice.
10:49 AM on 02/07/2011
I think you have some good points. However, as a teacher educator and a former teacher I have some for you:
What good comes from students being kicked out of class with nowhere to go? In my experience this happens all too frequently at the 6-12 level.

What pedagogical basis is there EVER for pushing kids out of the classroom with no support services?
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Fran Jaime
Yo Soy 132!
02:48 PM on 02/07/2011
Also, isn't a student the school's responsibility during class hours? If he is kicked out with nowhere to go and something happens to him, wouldn't the school be liable?
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08:37 PM on 02/07/2011
So the rest of the class can learn without distractions?
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01:25 AM on 02/07/2011
where did all the discipline go?
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08:37 PM on 02/07/2011
Parents.
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11:17 PM on 02/07/2011
materialism
08:07 PM on 02/06/2011
Thanks for the excellent post. My daughter occasionally sought refuge in the guidance counselor's office in high school, and I appreciated his ability at the time to defuse the situation and turn it into a calm learning experience for her. The bottom line is that the kind of behavior you value in an adult -- for example, standing up for what you believe, or speaking up when you see injustice -- isn't necessarily what a teacher of high school students wants to see. It is a mistake for teachers to label all disruptive students as being not interested in learning or trouble-makers or anything else for that matter. Sometimes they are just beginning to behave (imperfectly) like adults in an environment that would prefer they behave like obedient children. I understand how those teachers feel, having reared a few teens myself. However, there are far better ways to manage these students than to remove them from class.
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mlaiuppa
Pres. Sarcasm Society. Like we need your approval.
03:08 AM on 02/07/2011
The reality is that budget cuts are increasing class sizes. Teachers have 55 min. to cover material for the standardized test for 36-42 students. When you add those value added test scores on to the merit pay so many want to pay teachers, there is no time to deal with class clowns. You can't get a Neiman Marcus education at Walmart prices. When there is only money for a one size fits all assembly line education, students that cannot excel under that model are going to suffer. But you can't expect the teacher to take time out of those 55 min. to deal with one student when there are 37 other in the class entitled to their fair share of the teacher's attention. You get what you pay for.
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Lynn Brown
12:39 PM on 02/07/2011
"coverage" of a topic, as it is typically used, does nothing to promote understanding. It is highly inefficient as a means of learning, and information is not retained because its not experienced.

I completely agree with your "one size fits all assembly line education" point. When you run an assembly line, and someone coughs, or scratches, or complains they need to go to the bathroom, you throw them out. I don't think that's how a classroom should be run.

Further, I am willing to bet that if most adults were forced to listen to 45 min chunks of lectures on different topics, and threatened with zero tolerance "discipline", they wouldn't last a day, let alone a week, or semester, or year.

The fault lies not with the kids, or the adults. It lies in that assembly line education.
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Lynn Brown
12:24 PM on 02/07/2011
"Sometimes they are just beginning to behave (imperfect­ly) like adults in an environmen­t that would prefer they behave like obedient children." ,,,well said.

Engendering an environment in which students can exercise and build discipline is not the same as punishing them.
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Venicelady
Ignorance is NOT bliss.
07:22 PM on 02/06/2011
I yearn for the days of the weekly school assemblies, where the administrators introduced themselves to the student body, and explained the rules for all, particularly at the beginning of the school year.

Now, it's left up to the individual teacher to enforce the rules, often with spotty results. Administrators, wishing to lesson the incidents at their school ( afraid of being placed on "impact" lists, ignore the problems, and push all issues with students at the feet of the teachers, guidance counselors, deans, and social workers).

Isn't it time for the administrators to LEAD again, and take a proactive approach towards working with the teachers, students, and other staff to minimize disruptive behavior, and encourage proper classroom behavior? Seems far too many administrators shirk their responsibilities in this matter, preferring to stay in their offices instead.
07:56 PM on 02/06/2011
What about this situation requires a school administrator? Shouldn't teachers be able to handle a yawning student without advice from or support of the school principal? I understand that a chronically disruptive student, after attempts by the teacher to handle the situation, or a student that is a danger to himself or others should be referred to the principal. But surely the professional in the classroom should be expected to manage most behavior effectively without calling for outside reinforcements.
09:24 AM on 02/07/2011
Raechel, you mentioned in a previous post that your daughter frequently sought refuge in the guidance counselor's room. That should tell you something. I guess it is the teacher to lame. Are you a teacher? Have you ever taught a class of 25-30 students where 1 or 2 insist on disruptive behavior? If you have never been in a classroom as a teacher, don't be to eager to condemn teachers. Venicelady is quite correct with her comments in her post. Administrators "push all issues at the feet of teachers,guidance counselors,deans and social workers".
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11:53 PM on 02/07/2011
What if this child yawns LOUDLY every time the teacher tries to speak, on purpose. What would you do? One child can interrupt the learning very easily if they want to. How do you force this child to stop yawning? (This is a possible scenario).
EvolveorPerish
R E anna what have you done?
08:17 PM on 02/06/2011
When you work at a school with a large percentage of at risk kid its very important that everyone be on the same page, teachers and admin. If administration does not have your back, you have nothing to form the integrity of your discipline.