Don't Come Any Closer, or I'll Shoot -- Myself

Hey there, Pennsylvania Democrats: are you sure you're old enough to vote? Because some of you are acting like two-year-olds.

A Franklin & Marshall College poll has found that if Barack Obama wins the nomination, 53% of Hillary Clinton's Pennsylvania voters would vote for him. Of the rest, 19% plan to vote for McCain, and 13% will sit on their hands on Election Day. Ditto Obama supporters -- 60% of them would support a nominee named Clinton, but 20% would vote for McCain, and 3% will stay home from the polls.

For some of these petulant, my-candidate-or-the-GOP-guy Democratic voters, it appears it's more about personality over policy. They'll choose four more years of Republican appointments of judges, Republican policies in the Iraq war, in environmental matters, in abortion and family planning programs, and tax cuts for the already prosperous ... all this over a Democratic fiscal and social and war agenda.

Nice work, people. If you want to cast a protest vote, why not choose Ralph Nader? This isn't like Florida 2000, where voters were confused by the ballot. If McCain wins as a consequence of this ''my way or the highway'' sulking, Democrats will know who they have to blame: themselves.

Follow Patt Morrison on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Op-ed columnist

Comments

[itmaybetoolate]

Obama folks who say that won't vote for insane mccain: you HONESTLY would prefer to have mccain as your president over hrc? Honestly now - you think the country can survive four more years of a president who can't tell a shia from a sunni, and who expects to be in iraq for 100 YEARS? A candidate who admits that economics is NOT his strong point. A candidate who relies on LIEBERMAN to give him stage cues?

[FreedomLoverX]

The ONLY people saying "my way or else" are shills. Anyone willing to vote for McCain is no democrat. So, why accept, and then promote their lies? I will never vote for McCain. We need a change. I will not vote for Hillary. She is a liar, hence no change. I will vote for the next candidate who is in line with the way I think things should be. That might turn out to be an eagle, if the neocons haven't killed them all yet, long before McCain. If I were you, I wouldn't believe those threats. They aren't coming from democrats.

[LeoMarvin]

Either I'm misunderstanding you or you contradicted yourself within three sentences. First you say (and later repeat) that the polls showing many Democrats will vote for McCain or stay home if their candidate isn't the nominee are lies, and anyone who gave those answers is a shill. Then you say you'll never vote for Hillary. Either I'm missing something obvious or you are. I hope it's me, but I think it's you.

[ethancorso]

No, it's you, LeoMarvin. He was implying that those who would support McCain rather than a Democrat are shills. He's right, too.

[Egghead]

Hey, don't look at me, Patt. I'll vote for Hillary if I have to, and in the meantime I will work my butt off to make sure that I don't have to. I'm doing my best not to poison the well and say nasty things about her campaign, even when it is so darned easy.

[newunderground]

I'll TRY too, but it is hard. But I think BOTH campaigns look foolish with these ridiculous charges and counter charges. Bill Clinton as McCarthy? O Bama hates Amurica? C'mon both are Stupid allegations. Richardson judas? Let's get real!!!

[calebbullen]

I can't vote for somebody who not only voted for the war and didn't vote against torture but who apparently doesn't even see why she was wrong to do so. Plus, before I knew who Barack Obama was, Clinton's support for a flag burning amendment when there was so much that was so much more important happening; I knew I couldn't vote for her. If my choices are Clinton, McCain or Nader; I'll just vote in the local elections and leave the federal part blank.

[Doofus]

You understand, perhaps that the notorious 'C-in-C Test' is just 'Can you vote to send US forces to war?'. (It's really a gross oversimplification, but it is what it is.) McCain & Clinton have done that. Obama has not. Presidents MUST be able to do that. As for flag-burning, Clinton voted *for* an anti-flag-burning LAW, but is AGAINST such an amendment. It's just triangulation, but such a law would probably be ruled un-Constitutional and she KNOWS that (presumably). I'm for Obama, but I'll vote for Clinton before voting for McCain.

[JohnTalbutt]

I am for Obama too, I don't like Hillary but we may be able to survive with her. With McCain, the 100 year war and the attack of Iran, we may not. Please reconsider. I have grandchildren

[AreYouFibbing]

go read the Iraq Resolution signed by 77 senators (several of whom were running for president this time around) and match it up against Bush's action, so that you can see the disconnect and stop saying these people voted for war.

[BrooklynLager]

They voted for war. Read the speeches that half of the democratic Senators made in their NAY votes - they knew exactly what it was. We all did.

[dollphingurl]

hillary voted "with conviction" but didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate. granted, being a senator from NY at that point in time means she couldn't necessarily vote and keep her political thing going but nonetheless, she didn't do her homework. AND if the peanut gallery of advisors she's got is any indication of who she'll be doing her homwork with in the white house, then we ALL just lost.

[CindyV]

I just read the latest comments on this page. Almost all are Obama supporters saying they won't vote for Hillary. The point of the article is well made here.

[LeoMarvin]

I admit that the Hillary-haters outnumber the Barack-haters on this page of this thread (though there are some pretty mind-bending examples of both). But as Patt's post indicates, the polls show the opposite for Democrats at large. Neither is forgivable, and though I have my opinion about which campaign has done more to encourage its supporters to believe the other candidate isn't qualified to be President (guess which), I'll just leave it at that. And I'll repeat that there's no excuse not to vote for the Democratic candidate, however much (s)he or his/her supporters may piss us off.

[Leota2]

I am a Democrat.

[TheRebel82]

Sorry but I just cant support the Clintons. They're too republican-like for my tastes. Their whole entire campaign has been run like something out of the Karl Rove playbook of slime and fear-mongering.

[WomanInOrangeSweater]

This must be your first election.

[jsfox]

I have been saying since this started. That I was happy to go for either candidate. I was less happy with Senator Clinton because I do believe she will be more of the same divisive politics, But I would still vote for her. However, the longer the blood bath goes the less confident I am I will be able to vote for her. However, November is a long time away and time does heal all wounds....I hope. My concern is how I will feel if I sense or believe she got the nomination through less than honorable means. If this is the case I just don't know. I may do a write-in. But I say again, November is a long way off.

[lbrillante]

Well there was a time that I would have voted for John McCain. But to be completely honest I dont' care what Senator Clinton's poicies are because I have lost all respect for her. I don't believe Senator Clinton deserves to be president. If that means not voting or voting for someone else, I will do that. Is it just a matter of personality.. well if ethics, honesty, judgement, and character are 'personality then yes. She fails in every count for me. I don't hate her. She gives me nothing to vote for.. I don't believe any policy promise she makes and I am very unhappy that she is still in this race. I also don't believe for a minute that she would be able to beat John McCain. So far the dirt that has been raised with the Clintons has been merely dust considering what is out there to deal with and it will be thick as mud when the repblicans throw it at them. She's already been caught in blatant lies that will likely be suppressed by the press now but the republicans won't hold back in the fall. The Clintons will provide a long term smorgasboard for the media. The media sees dollar signs and they have power to influence what happens in this race. From my perspective to be in integrity with myself and my beliefs, I cannot and should not vote for Hillary. I don't find that childish.

[DoTheMath]

Please. If we were all making grown-up decisions, based on the issues and the likely consequences of electing each of the candidates (not to mention the likely consequences of dragging out a family fight for months while the opposition collects damaging sound bites for free), this primary would be so over by now. Wait a minute, it is, isn't it? Oops, sorry. That was my math-based fantasy.

[afgail]

Here's my take on the unwillingness of Obama supporters to embrace whoever is the Democratic nominee. The notion that white American has to atone more to make up for slavery 150 years ago and the pre 1960s racism now fifty years ago. And that translates into giving Obama the presidency for which he has neither the executive nor the national legislative experience to qualify for. I had been appalled by the sentiment that it has to be Obama or they will vote for McCain. I confess that I now share their notion and pledge that if it isn't Hillary I will vote for McCain on the premise that at least a Democratic congress will hog tie McCain. McCain won't get anything through the congress that the Democrats don't want. And that goes for the war, judges and tax cuts for the rich.

[dollphingurl]

obama is a talented person. he didn't get as far as he has by playing the race card. this is a tiring, tried and TIRED broken record.

[JadedAggie]

Yeah I tell you that democratic congress has been fantastic at stopping Bush from getting what he wants.

[Aleka]

Oh dear. I am afriad you aren't seeing things very clearly - I am guessing that that is your intention.............The unwillingness you see is testament to Hillary's own actions...... She is, after all, trying cheat to win, all the while spinning it so somehow SHE is the victim because people won't let her cheat; she has outright lied and then claimed it "misspoke" as though we were all stupid and can't see through more lies; her people attack Obama, he defends and then she turns around and calls HIM negative - acting the victim and conveniently forgetting she provoked him. It's like watching a school bully punch someone, get a kick in return, and then turn around and tell the teacher (MSM and her other gullible minions) that the other guy did it unprovoked. No one liked to see that kind of ethics in the schoolyard. ......................Please don't add to the muddle of problems by assuming that anything other than her own words and actions and ethics have repelled a lot of people. It is people like YOU who bring race into it, and you lower yourself by bringing it up.

[Doofus]

Democracy certainly is MESSY. Especially when practiced by Democrats. Perhaps the bottom line is that, as they say, 'Hillary has a LOT of negatives'. People who won't vote for her *really* don't want her to be President, Democrat or not. That's what's really going on. All hail President McCain. 'Glorious Victory in Iraq is almost just around the corner again!'

[4wehttam]

If Obama has the popular vote and the most delegates and the super delegates overthrow that and give it to Hillary, I for ONE don't give a damn about sitting on the sidelines if my original vote didn't count anyway. If she wins fair and square, meaning if she had the most popular votes and Obama had the most delegates, then I could stomach voting for her. That would be the ONLY exception.

[afgail]

If you count Florida Hillary already has the majority of the popular vote. In both Texas and Nevada Hillary won the popular vote but Obama got more of the delegates because of "AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" methods for apportioning Democratic primary delegates.

[JadedAggie]

Somebody has been drinking the kool-aid. Not only does Clinton trail in the popular vote if you include Florida, but she actually trails by .3% even if you include Michigan where she gets a 100% 320k margin of victory by being alone on the ballot.

[SkipHarv]

You are obviously a person who would never vote for a blackman for anything as your comment states very plainly. How is the allocation of delegates an example of Affirmative Action? The process in NV and TX is a mini version of the Electoral College, where some States (districts,counties and cities) have more delegates than others. Sen. Obama "won" the Cities that had more delegates than the ones Hillary won. Which is her "NEW" claim to the super-delegates Hillary's claim that she "won" the Electoral College against Sen. Obama.

[RButler]

Plus, an Idaho caucus vote equals 10 times a California primary vote. One Idaho pledged delegate represents 10 times the votes as a California primary delegate. The whole Democratic primary process is a mess and they deserve to lose the November election. The superdelegates don't have to vote for Obama if he's ahead. That's the rules. But, the Obama crowd wants to change them.

[bygolly]

Why would you count Florida when they both signed papers agreeing that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count?

[Shannon2008]

If this is how were going to decide who to vote for, by selecting who we think is more electable based on polls, then I suggest that we just stay home. I'd rather vote based on the issues like health care, social security, the war in Iraq, and the economy.

[Squirtapotamus]

Uh, voting is a poll. The only one that counts. Since Hillary and Obama are practically the same regarding the issues, I base my choice on who I want to listen to for the next four years. I don't believe Hillary when she speaks. I am inspired when I hear Barack speak. Makes for a simple choice.

[BBackSoon]

Nicely put. Thanks.

[wolfi101]

grrr... But here are the links to the campaigns fund raising according to the FEC. (The PAC contributions are the lobbyists.) OBAMA.... http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?drillLevel=US&stateName=&cand_id=P80003338 .... MCCAIN - > http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?drillLevel=US&stateName=&cand_id=P80002801 CLINTON -> http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do?drillLevel=US&stateName=&cand_id=P00003392 ..... So, you tell me, who is most owned by the lobbyists.

[remc]

Very interesting stats - thanks for the link

[wolfi101]

(My message apparently got caught off)