In a CNN debate with Ari Fleischer, I said the United States executed Japanese war criminals for waterboarding. My point was that it is disingenuous for Bush Republicans to argue that waterboarding is not torture and thus illegal. It's kind of awkward to argue that waterboarding is not a crime when you hanged someone for doing it to our troops. My precise words were: "Our country executed Japanese soldiers who waterboarded American POWs. We executed them for the same crime we are now committing ourselves."
Mr. Fleischer, ordinarily the most voluble of men, was tongue-tied. The silence, rare in cable debates, spoke volumes for the vacuity of his position.
Now Mark Hemingway of the National Review Online has asserted that I was wrong. I bookmark NRO and read it frequently. It's smart and breezy -- but on this one it got its facts wrong.
Mr. Hemingway assumed I was citing the case of Yukio Asano, who was convicted of waterboarding and other offenses and sentenced to 15 years hard labor -- not death by hanging. Mr. Hemingway made the assumption that I was referring to the Asano case because in 2006 Sen. Edward Kennedy had referred to it. (Sen. Kennedy accurately described the sentence as hard labor and not execution, by the way.)
But I was not referring to Asano, nor was my source Sen. Kennedy. Instead I was referencing the statement of a different member of the Senate: John McCain. On November 29, 2007, Sen. McCain, while campaigning in St. Petersburg, Florida, said, "Following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."
Sen. McCain was right and the National Review Online is wrong. Politifact, the St. Petersburg Times' truth-testing project (which this week was awarded a Pulitzer Prize), scrutinized Sen. McCain's statement and found it to be true. Here's the money quote from Politifact:
"McCain is referencing the Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as 'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning." Politifact went on to report, "A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps."
The folks at Politifact interviewed R. John Pritchard, the author of The Tokyo War Crimes Trial: The Complete Transcripts of the Proceedings of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. They also interviewed Yuma Totani, history professor at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas, and consulted the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law, which published a law review article entitled, "Drop by Drop: Forgetting the History of Water Torture in U.S. Courts." Bottom line: Sen. McCain was right in 2007 and National Review Online is wrong today. America did execute Japanese war criminals for waterboarding.
"Oh what tangle web we weave when first we practice to deceive. "
And we call 'em on it.
Mister Begala states that the an international tribunal executed Japanese for waterboarding which implies that waterboarding itself and alone was a crime for which the death penalty was applied. What the facts that he quotes imply is that the Japanese war criminals were executed for crimes which included waterboarding. This argument conceals the crucial information that it is very likely that in cases where the death penalty was applied, other, greater crimes had been committed by the personnel in question.
Unless mister Begala can cite a case where waterboarding was the only crime on an indictment for which a Japanese was executed, his argument is similar to his saying that he knew of a case where a man who had broken into a house, murdered all its occupants, and stolen the television set had been sentenced to death for burglary. it doesn't hold up.
During Hirota's second tenure as foreign minister, late in 1937, Japanese forces marched into Nanking. Thousands of innocent civilians were buried alive, used as targets for bayonet practice, shot in large groups and thrown into the Yangtze River. Rampant rapes (and gang rapes) of women ranging from age seven to over seventy were reported. The international community estimated that within the six weeks of the Massacre, 20,000 women were raped, many of them subsequently murdered or mutilated; and over 300,000 people were killed, often with the most inhumane brutality.
While Hirota was not in charge of the army units that invaded Nanjing, he was well informed about the massacre. The international community had filed many protests to the Japanese Embassy. Bates, an American professor of history at the University of Nanking during the Japanese occupation, provided evidence that the protests were forwarded to Tokyo and were discussed in great detail between Japanese officials and the U.S. ambassador in Tokyo.
Seishiro Itagaki:
Itagaki was moreover responsible for the supply of food and medical care to prisoners of war and civilian internees, in particular on various Indonesian islands during the last months of the war. It has been established that, over that period, thousands of people died due to lack of food or adequate care, while the camp guards suffered no undue hardship.
It is alleged that in carrying out his functions, Kimura allegedly violated the laws and customs of war in approving the use of prisoners of war for hazardous work, from which they are usually prohibited. They were forced to work in very dangerous conditions and several thousands died. Heitaro Kimura allegedly gave the order and approved the use of prisoners of war for the construction of the railway between Burma and the Kingdom of Siam (now Thailand). In addition, he did not take the necessary disciplinary measures to prevent or to punish the commission of atrocities by his troops.
Iwane Matsui:
His troops took Nanking on 13 December 1937. The Chinese army had evacuated the city just before it was taken. The ensuing occupation was therefore that of a defenceless city. The Japanese troops nevertheless carried out unspeakable atrocities: massacre, rape, pillaging and destruction were routinely committed. During a six to seven week period, more than 100’000 civilians were killed and thousands of women raped. Against this backdrop, Matsui marched triumphantly into Nanking on 17 December 1937 and remained there for several days.
Akira Muto:
Moreover, as an officer serving under General Matsui between November 1937 and July 1938, he was charged with war crimes for his participation in the atrocities committed at Nanking.
Facts mean nothing to NeoCons.
Beliefs, feelings and "greater truths" are what they work from.
Perception is reality.
Control the perception and you control the reality.
People like us are barely a nuisance (given that you are certainly more of a nuisance than I).
Chapter VIII
Conventional warcrimes (Atrocities)
To indicate the prevalence of torture and the uniformity of the methods employed we give a brief summary of these methods:
The so-called "water treatment" was commonly applied. The victim was bound or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach until he lost consciousness. Pressure was then applied, sometimes by jumping upon his abdomen to force the water out. The usual practice was to revive the victim and successively repeat the process.
The United States Government warned: "The American Government also solemnly warns the Japanese Government that for any other violations of its undertakings as regards American prisoners of war or for any other acts of criminal barbarity inflicted upon American prisoners in violation of the laws of warfare, accepted and practiced by civilized nations, as military operations now in progress draw to their inexorable and inevitable conclusion, the American Government will visit upon the officers of the Japanese Government responsible for such uncivilized and inhumane acts the punishment they deserve."
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/IMTFE/IMTFE-8.html
Just following orders is never an excuse - do lower ranking members of mafia organizations get off because they were just following orders when they rough up shop owners?
I'm sure everything was explained to them in a very convincing way, using the same talking points we're now seeing from the GOP, like, oh, it's not really torture because there's no physical damage. The wall is a flexible wall and they're wearing a collar. There's a doctor present. How could all these people be involved if it was illegal? A doctor wouldn't be there if it wasn't okay, would he?
I think they should be brought up on charges just so they can testify as to what they were told, and by whom, but then they should be pardoned or found not guilty because they were defrauded by convincing con artists.
Not true. We Americans as a whole abhor torture.
Unfortunately, a small, extremely wealthy (and thus powerful) and vociferous subset of ourselves has no morality and draws lines regarding behavior only at the edge of their wallets.
They are who argue for torture; they are who argue for those casual cruelties in everyday American life, such as permitting people to die for lack of health care.
That ain't "us", the American People.
Isn't it? We've known about this since Abu Garaib, and did nothing substantive. We are no better than the Germans who all claimed to know nothing about the extermination of the Jews during WWII. It's strange that no one can find, to this day, anyone in Germany that used to be a member of the Nazi Party of that time. Where'd they all go? At least they have a sense of shame. We seem to have none any more. Acquiescence and silence is just as bad, if not worse than the act itself. Apathy is the enemy. Disgusting. I'm TIRED of being ashamed to be an American, something I've felt for 30 years. Maybe it's time to move on. This country is lost.
or maybe im wrong.maybe it fits perfectly.maybe the reason they love this country so much more than all of us cowardly,weak kneed yellow belly liberal pinko hippy communist gay marrying socialists who have no clue about what "real americans" are doing out there in "real america",isnt because of our morality or compassion or our history or even our constitution.maybe they only think America is "exceptional" because we've got the biggest guns and the biggets tanks and we kick the most ass.
in other words,as long as we continue to be the biggest and the toughest,the way we establish that dominance is essentially irrelevant.
To me, patriotism is taking your part in the Founders' experiment, doing whatever is needed to expand the boundaries of liberty even far beyond what the Founders dreamed of, until we finally become that city on a hill that deserves to wear the white hats in the movies.
We were talking about this just yesterday about how the GOP is made up of a bunch of cowards. They are bullies. When a bully is confronted by reason or logic or true inner strength, they cower in fear. When they're in their gangs, or can physically diminish you, they feel strong.