5 Questions On Common Sense Gun Laws For Gov. Sarah Palin

The nation's media have been feverishly pursuing stories about Alaska's Governor, Sarah Palin. Among other topics, they've been asking about her children.

My questions for Governor Palin are about children, too, but not just her children. I'd like to know her thoughts on how to make America's children safer. With gun violence taking eight young people in America every day, this should be an important issue in this campaign.

The Brady Campaign released a set of questions we'd like Governor Palin to respond to:

* In view of your being "a lifetime member of the NRA," what is your reaction to the disclosure that the NRA has been paying a woman to spy on gun violence prevention groups and the victims they represent for over 10 years?

* Most Americans, including President Bush, support banning military-style semiautomatic assault weapons. What is your position?

* Do you agree with Senator McCain that the "gun-show loophole"(allowing individuals to buy guns at a gun show with no background check from so-called "private sellers") should be closed?

* What did you mean when you described "attacks on our Second Amendment rights" as equivalent to gangs and drug use as something that would "harm family life." [Eagle Forum Alaska questionnaire, 7-30-06.] Does this include efforts by groups like the Brady Campaign to make it harder for dangerous people to get dangerous weapons?

* Do you agree with Senator McCain (as he stated on the floor of the Senate on January 21, 2004) that background check approval records for gun purchases should be kept for 90 days instead of 24 hours, that ATF should be able to require gun stores to conduct inventory audits, and that crime gun trace information should be more widely available to law enforcement and the public? [See Senator McCain's statement on the Senate floor, 1-22-04.]

The media spotlight on Governor Palin has been bright, and some of the focus has been of questionable relevance to our nation's concerns. But the questions above are fair and reasonable. I hope the media or the public will ask them and that she will answer them.

(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog and the Huffington Post.)

Comments

[molonlabe]

Remember folks, people like Paul Helmke and Kelli think that trained professionals and appropriate Gubberment agencies should be the Only Ones(tm) with access to dangerous weapons because, you know, they are trained professionals and competent enough to handle such weapons.

"The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping.

The Justice Department blamed carelessness and sloppy record-keeping on the losses.
(ABC News Photo Illustrati­on)Thirty-­five of the missing handguns, rifles, Tasers and other weapons were stolen, as were 50 laptops, the internal audit found. Two of the stolen weapons were used in crimes."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=5821306

[kaveman1]

How can this be when the ATF routinely tries to shut down firearms dealers for paper work errors?

Could this possibly be yet another case of government cronies saying "do as I say, not as I do?"

[HisXLNC]

If a gun store lost 76 guns, they would be shut down and probably prosecuted. I propose we shut down the ATF. It's only fair.

[kaveman1]

Howdy Paul, looks like "America is turning the corner on the gun issue."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,423962,00.html

[molonlabe]

"...the National Rifle Association-backed bill passed easily, 266-152, with supporters saying they were determined to give D.C. residents the same Second Amendment right of self-defense that has been available to other Americans.

Many of those speaking for the bill in debate that went well into the night Tuesday were conservative Democrats from rural districts that strongly support gun rights. Eighty-five Democrats voted for the bill."


Anyone know when the roof mounted .50 cal option will become available on SUV's?

[kaveman1]

The Brady Bunch has swept clean its site of reference to carrying "assault weapons" in public being allowed by 6691.

I think they finally realized this was just too much of a whopper to sell even to their own sheople. All wording on their site now talks about "stockpiling" assault weapons in peoples' homes and business which are NEXT TO federal buildings and motorcade routes.

[molonlabe]

"...the National Rifle Association-backed bill passed easily, 266-152, with supporters saying they were determined to give D.C. residents the same Second Amendment right of self-defense that has been available to other Americans.

Many of those speaking for the bill in debate that went well into the night Tuesday were conservative Democrats from rural districts that strongly support gun rights. Eighty-five Democrats voted for the bill.

"Number one, I'm a pro-gun Democrat," said Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark. "Number 2, if the government of the District of Columbia can take your guns away from you in our nation's capital, Prescott, Arkansas, and many other small towns across the country could be next."

Finally, Paul. Some common sense.

[mike102]

Yep. The best part is, it's a Bunch O' Democrats pushing this thing. HA!

[mike102]

Jade, NJ has enough gun laws to choke a horse. How about a nice fixer-upper in Camden?

[Jadegold]

Looks as if CaseyTool is doing the Lord's work here.

Great monicker, BTW.

[mike102]

You don't honestly think you fooled anyone with that, do you?

[kaveman1]

Uhm...can you explain this?

"Let's go to, say, Coles County--where a man carry guns to his heart's content. Surely, assaults and batteries must be approaching zero."

As the master of knowledge concerning all things related to firearms, I would have guessed that you knew that Illinois doesn't have any carry laws.

[djcrsn]

Jade--with your inability to handle the truth--a practicing Christian you are not.

[Mark0]

Cherrypicking, moving the goalposts, distaction to avoid the truth.....and now sockpuppetry.

Jade has projected those characteristics on others repeatedly, but a quick read through this blog shows numerous examples of his own use of those tactics, just as he has done on other blogs.

The only thing he proves is that he is the consumate example of what he decries in others.

Obviously he is wrong and he knows it. He is simply unable to admit it.

[Thirdpower]

It seems the Illinois Uniform Crime Report doesn't have the same numbers as Jade's reports.
Jade claimed:

"In Cook County (Chicago), there are between 100-200 cases of aggravated assault/battery per 100K citizens."

The IL UCR for 2006 lists Aggravated Assault/Battery for Cook County in 2005 as 420.2/100K and 399.8 in 2006.

It seems they might have gone off of the ARREST RATE and not the CRIME RATE.

Now let's look at Jade's other claim:

"In gun-crazy Coles County, we see there are between 400-500 instances of assault or battery per 100K citizens."

Hmm. That doesn't look right either. Let's check the numbers.

2005: 199.9
2006: 227.2

Why gosh! That's HALF of what Jade claimed it was.

What a surprise.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/cii/cii06/cii06_Section_II_Pg27_to_198.pdf

[CaseyTool]

How many ways can TP obfuscate? Let us count the ways.

He claimed Chicago gun laws leads to more crime. Yet, a number of counties, unencumbered by those gun laws, in IL have higher violent crime rates.

He claims being able to carry a gun in IL allows counties to be safer and enjoy diminishing crime rates. Yet, Chicago has a negative crime rate while said gun-toting counties enjoy more crime.

But the best is saved for last:

Did you know Oakland, CA and Richmond, CA were actually in NY state? Betcha didn't know that. TP is a wealth of information.

[CaseyTool]

Update:

Thirdpower has changed his mind. Richmond, CA and Oakland, CA are no longer in New York state.

They're in....Chicago.

[Thirdpower]

They must have moved there to help account for the claimed 9.7 million people that live there.

Now who claimed that again?

I'm sure it happened during the 5 months of January - July. Right?

[djcrsn]

2nd Attempt Ironpyrite­--Richmond and Oakland have the draconian gun laws you want and crime rates that are out of site--another good example of the FAILURE of GUN CONTROL.

[mike102]

"He claimed Chicago gun laws leads to more crime. Yet, a number of counties, unencumbered by those gun laws, in IL have higher violent crime rates."

Yeah, if you really believe Chicago has a population of 9.7 million, which it doesn't.

You didn't get away with fudging the numbers the first time. What makes you think you'll get away with it now?

[Thirdpower]

Earlier, JadeGold claimed that "Further, TP doesn't wish to discuss why a city like New Orleans or a Houston or a Miami--all with lax gun control laws have homicide rates that dwarf Chicago's or NYC's."

Then he goes on to make unsourced assertions as to what I 'claimed" about NYC. Seems he's disconnected from reality again. Here's what was said about NYC:

"Let’s talk about NYC. It’s murder rate is great for a major metropolis. They also have LESS restrictive laws than Chicago but are still 3x that of the rest of the state where laws are even less restrictive than the city. There’s also this little thing called CompStat and an addition of thousands of officers to the beat rolls. No NYC or Chicago “gun control” law correlates w/ the decrease in crime. But that will never be discussed now will it?"

But Jade still will only compare it to one other district to make his false dichotomy.

Sad.

Come on Jade. Why don't you show us the law that allows carrying firearms in Illinois. You claimed it had one.

[CaseyTool]

In respose to NYC's crime rates--despite having some gun control--Third "Gun Laws Cause Crime" Power has claimed other parts of NY state have lower crime rates because they have lax gun control laws.

Again: Sadly, no.

NYC:
(Murder) .96 the national average
(Rape) .55 the national average
(Robbery) 1.47 the national average
(Assault/Battery) 1.06 the national average
(All violent crime) 1.21 the national average

Buffalo, NY
(Murder) 2.86 the national average
(Rape) 1.94 the national average
(Robbery) 2.58 the national average
(Assault/Battery) 1.73 the national average
(All violent crime) 2.15 the national average

[djcrsn]

Jade--thank you for showing that NYC and Buffalo are NOT gun free/crimefree Utopias despite the draconian Sullivan Act (passed and supported by an Irish AMerican mobster to disarm newer Italian immigrants). Like the vast majority of the gun control of the world--passed by a fearful majority to maintain power over a despised minoritiy (whether that minority is based on color, immigration status or religion (like the Nazis disarmed the Jews and the Turks disarmed the Armeniand and the Bolsheviks disarmed everybody--anyone else remember these Holocausts­/pogroms?)

[Thirdpower]

And we all note that Jade has to Cherry Pick cities in order to make his assertions.

He also fails to note that Buffalo has laws closer to NYC than the rest of the state.

Oooops

[CaseyTool]

Who is we, TP?

We can take Albany, NY--if you wish. But it will only support my argument.

How about Poughkeepsie? Nope, doesn't help you.

Syracuse? Nope.

Utica? No.

You're not good at at this, are you?

[Thirdpower]

And the Cherry Picking continues.

[Thirdpower]

Let's look at some current info for Chicago since JadeGold is living in the past:

Total index incidents were up 2.4% compared to January-July 2007.

Total index incidents were up in 19 of 25 districts.

Violent index incidents up in 13 of 25 districts.

Property index incidents up in 15 of 25 districts.

Murder up 18.3%

etc. etc.

How could that be?

[CaseyTool]

Great argument, TP !

I post data containing annual rates. TP tells us the rate is up, in period of 5 months, 2.4%.

TP's forever pickin' cherries.

[Thirdpower]

Um, January to July is 7 months.

Are we having problems today Jade?

I'm showing current data. You're not. Shock.

So when are you going to show us that IL Carry law you claimed?

[Thirdpower]

"And, he asserts, the rest of the state is a crime-free utopia because its citizens can carry firearms."

Illinois doesn't have carry laws so how would I have claimed that?

Ooooops.

[Thirdpower]

JadeGold (AKA CaseyTool) also claimed that Chicago had 9.7 million people.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/kecibukia/IMG000034.jpg

Seems someone has issues w/ facts and figures.

[CaseyTool]

ThirdPower has repeatedly asserted Chicago is simply a crime swamp because it has a few gun control laws. And, he asserts, the rest of the state is a crime-free utopia because its citizens can carry firearms.

Let's look at IL county aggravated assault/battery rates.

(http://www.illinoisatlas.com/illinois/crime/pdf/il_county_crime_05_aab.pdf)

In Cook County (Chicago), there are between 100-200 cases of aggravated assault/battery per 100K citizens.

Those pesky gun control laws--causing all those assaults and batteries!

But wait.....

Let's go to, say, Coles County--where a man carry guns to his heart's content. Surely, assaults and batteries must be approaching zero.

Sadly, no.

In gun-crazy Coles County, we see there are between 400-500 instances of assault or battery per 100K citizens.

[Thirdpower]

Wow. Jade's really getting disjointed now.

Can anyone make any sense out of this rambling nonsense?

[Mark0]

Illinois law does not allow for concealed carry.
Open carry is also heavily frowned upon.

What do assault and battery rates have to do with carrying guns in a state where carry is largely illegal?

It certainly looks like you are cherry-picking the numbers, and chart, that best suit syour need...an activity for which you continually attack others.

Why didn't you refer to the numbers for homicide, rather than a&b: http://www.illinoisatlas.com/illinois/crime/pdf/il_county_crime_05_ho.pdf ?

[Thirdpower]

Oh he did. He showed that two counties out of 102 have a higher murder rate than Cook county. Which means that the other 99 don't.

Reality strikes again.

As per the IL UCR 2006. The most recent state data available.

Chicago had 22.2% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 60% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 16.4/100K

Cook County had 41.4% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 73.6% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 10.83/100K

The Cook County murders in raw number/per capita increased 4.4% and 4.9% respectively while arrest numbers and rates dropped over 18% from '05 to '06.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/ucrhome.cfm

[mike102]

"ThirdPower has repeatedly asserted Chicago is simply a crime swamp because it has a few gun control laws"

"A few gun control laws"? They have a BAN, and you know it.

And it is a crime swamp. I lived there. Have you ever even set foot in Chicago, Jade?

[mike102]

"Let's look at IL county aggravated assault/battery rates."

Assault and battery?

127 people were shot to death in 'Gun Free' Chicago over the summer. That's more Americans than were killed in Iraq over the summer.

[Thirdpower]

Oh, it gets worse for JadeGold. First he has to make false statements about what I claimed , uses outdated info, and then he thinks bans on handguns and semi-auto rifles are "a few gun control laws". How sad.

Illinois Mini-Factoid 2007:

Chicago dropped it's former percentage of 60% of Illinois murders for 2007.

It dropped to 59%

It's murders/100K went from 16.4 to 15.68.

It was still 5x higher than the rest of the state at 3.08 .

All of the drops for the city have been negated so far in 2008. As of the July Chicago crime report, it now sits at over 18 / 100K .

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/index.html

BTW Jade, Illinois does NOT have concealed carry so I never would have claimed that" the rest of the state is a crime-free utopia because its citizens can carry firearms."

Ooooops.

It might help the discussion move forward if gun banners did a bit of research before commenting.

[CaseyTool]

Oh my. It gets worse for ThirdPower.

(http://www.illinoisatlas.com/illinois/crime/pdf/il_county_crime_0405.pdf)

This shows IL county crime rates in terms of percentage change from 2004 to 2005.

Let's remember: ThirdPower has repeatedly asserted Chicago is simply a crime swamp because it has a few gun control laws. And, he asserts, the rest of the state is a crime-free utopia because its citizens can carry firearms.

Oooops.

Just a few highlights, the map is pretty self-explanatory. First, Cook County (Chicago) shows negative crime rate growth. Meanwhile, several counties--­unencumber­ed by the gun laws TP finds so odious--show 30% or more crime rate growth. Even, TP's home county shows crime rate growth.

[Thirdpower]

Gun control activists like to tell us about how guns cause crimes.

Ok. Barack Obama is Senator from Illinois. There is strict gun control in Chicago

""Gary Nowak recognizes that Illinois is facing a gun violence epidemic," said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/release.php?release=1006

Obama agrees:

"But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence."

How could this be happening in a city where handguns are banned except for a select few? Why does the city have 5x the murder rate of the rest of the state?

[CaseyTool]

Note Thirdpower conflates Chicago and Illinois. At times, he pretends they are separate, distinct entities. At still other times, Chicago is interchangeable with Illinois.

Of course, what should we expect from one who erroneously claimed Chicago had 5X the number of murders as the rest of Illinois? Answer: Not much.

But let us take a look at Illinois. If we read Thirdpower, we see he is trying to claim that higher murder rates occur in Chicago than everywhere else in the state. But we can easily debunk that falsehood:

(http://www.illinoisatlas.com/illinois/crime/pdf/il_county_crime_05_ho.pdf)

As we can see, Cook County (Chicago) has a high rate of homicides relative to other counties in the state.

Thirdpower says this is due to gun control laws.

But how does he explain St. Clair and Morgan counties--which also have high homicide rates relative to the rest of the state? After all, they are unencumbered by the gun laws Thirdpower claims to be causing the high homicide rates. Why are IL counties such as Peoria, Ford, Macon, Perry and others above the national homicide rate?

Further, TP doesn't wish to discuss why a city like New Orleans or a Houston or a Miami--all with lax gun control laws have homicide rates that dwarf Chicago's or NYC's.

Thirdpower doesn't wish to discuss why.

[mike102]

Look who's talking. Tell us about Chicago having a population of 9.7 million again, Jade. What was the purpose of that again? Of that's right. It was to try to hoodwink everyone into thinking that Chicago had a lower crime rate than the rest of the state.

[Thirdpower]

"Of course, what should we expect from one who erroneously claimed Chicago had 5X the number of murders as the rest of Illinois? Answer: Not much."

Did I call it or what?

What JadeGold also blatantly lies about is that I HAVE discussed conditions in other cities. Poverty, corruption, gangs, etc.

Jadegold doesn't wish to discuss that.

Poor Jade. Should I post the screen cap of you claiming Chicago had 9.7 million people again?

[CaseyTool]

Of course, Thirdpower will claim he never said Chicago had 5X the number of homicides as the rest of IL.

[Thirdpower]

Now watch. Jade will keep making false claims about 'rate' vs 'total'.

[Thirdpower]

Now watch JadeGold (AKA CaseyTool) change 'rate' to 'total'.

He'll also make more strawmen saying I made claims that I didn't.

Watch.