GOP Senator Identifies Gun Violence As Major Factor In Health Care Crisis

I want to thank Senator John Ensign of Nevada for speaking out about the importance of reducing gun violence as a means of addressing America's skyrocketing health care costs:

If you take out accidental deaths due to car accidents, and you take out gun deaths -- because we like our guns in the United States and there are a lot more gun-deaths in the United States [than Europe] -- you take out those two things, you adjust those, and we're actually better in terms of survival rates.

Sen. Ensign is right, "there are a lot more gun deaths in the United States" than in Europe. America suffers about 30,000 gun deaths every year, including more than 10,000 gun homicides and another 17,000 gun suicides.

By comparison, Germany sees less than 200 gun homicides each year, while England and Wales have less than 200 total gun deaths in an average year, including about 60 gun homicides. That puts America's gun homicide rate about 13 times higher than Germany's, and almost 31 times higher than England and Wales'.

What is Europe doing that we in America aren't? Sen. Ensign put his finger on it: Europeans have reduced the costs of gun violence by working to prevent it in the first place. If we in America take meaningful action to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, then in Sen. Ensign's words, we can "adjust" downward the obscene number of gun deaths in our country. We can save lives and reduce the costs that plague our health care system at the same time.

While he probably didn't mean to do it, full credit goes to Sen. Ensign for bringing this issue to the fore. Now, what can he and his colleagues in the Senate do to help?

First, they could make it harder for felons, wife-beaters and the dangerously mentally ill to hurt our communities by co-sponsoring Sen. Lautenberg's bill that requires criminal background checks for all gun sales at gun shows. Countless firearms are bought and sold at these shows from "private sellers" with no questions asked, making it easier for criminals and gun traffickers to get their guns.

Sen. Ensign and his colleagues could also speak in favor of legislation to limit the sale of handguns in bulk that enable illegal gun traffickers to sell firearms to criminals on the street.

Finally, they could support legislation to strengthen Federal law enforcement and crack down on the 1.2% of irresponsible or corrupt licensed gun dealers whose businesses account for almost 60% of crime guns traced to crime scenes in America.

This week, Sen. Ensign may have accidentally shined a light on what we at the Brady Campaign have known for decades: Gun violence not only takes about 30,000 American lives every year, it also puts a heavy burden on our economy and our health care system, particularly when you add in the other 70,000 non-fatal gun injuries each year.

Now is the time for us to do something about it.

(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog.)

 

 

Comments

[benEzra]

The problem with the U.S. health care system is the fact that the market incentives designed into the system encourage insurers to collect as much money as possible in premiums, while providing as little medical care as possible for as few people as possible. If you construct a system in which maximizing expenses and minimizing care is rewarded, then that is how the market will evolve, to everyone's detriment.

The problem with the health care system is NOT the lawful availability of rifles with handgrips that stick out, or the possession of handguns by mentally competent adults with clean records, or the fact that gun ownership isn't limited to wealthy elites as some would like it to be. The problem with the health care system is that, as presently constructed, it is designed to maximize out-of-pocket expenses, minimize care, and exclude as many people as possible, and Mr. Ensign is trying to sweep that fact under the rug.

Some of us would like to see the system fixed, and would rather the effort NOT be hijacked onto peripheral issues like gun control as it was in 1992-1994.

[jimtom]

I fully concur with BenEzra's conclusions with regard with the shortcomings of the way health care is insured in the U.S. I infer from his comments, and I believe that providing health care and treating illness and injury should not be a "for profit" business. That said, I do believe that gun violence is a significant public health problem in the U.S., and serious consideration should be given to treating it as such.

How much does gun violence cost? It depends on how the accounting is done. It depends on how good the data is. But clearly it costs $100 billion/year, and probably more, if factors such as lost productivity, long-term rehabilitation and home care, police investigation and criminal prosecution and incarceration costs as counted as "costs."

[djcrsn]

JT--the law abiding gunowners are not the problem, and those are the only people that the BC demanded policies would disarm--try focusing on the criminals

[Thirdpower]

Since Paul wants to use England as an example of his gun free paradise, let's take a look at how things are going over there:

Police tell mother attacked by yobs at home: 'We won't send anyone... it may escalate the problem'

A mother who was punched to the floor in her own home by yobs was stunned when police advised her not to call officers to her house - because it would 'escalate' the problem.

Nikki Collen, 39, begged officers for help after a thug kicked in her front door and punched her to the floor in her hallway.

After her attacker fled, Nikki rang Warwickshire Police who promised to send an officer to her home in Kenilworth.

But an hour later she received a phone call from a woman police officer who told her it would be better if police did not attend because it might inflame the situation.

Mother-of-two Nikki, who is studying an Open University degree in nursing, said: 'I couldn't believe it.

'I was attacked and wanted to report it but the officer was persuading me not to press charges.

'She even told me that if the bullies saw a police officer at my home it could escalate the problem further.

[msbeal]

Explain how this situation would have resolved better had both parties had guns?

[djcrsn]

most of the criminals already do

[Thirdpower]

"Both Parties"? Nice strawman there.

So you have no problems w/ the subjects of England being left to the mercies of out of control youth?

These are the results of 'reasonable, common-sense' citizen disarmament which the Brady Campaign endorses.

[mike102]

"Finally, they could support legislation to strengthen Federal law enforcement and crack down on the 1.2% of irresponsible or corrupt licensed gun dealers whose businesses account for almost 60% of crime guns traced to crime scenes in America." Paul Helmke

"And equally bogus solutions. I've yet to see the words "jail" or "prison" in any of their proposed solutions, yet the places with most gun violence also have the highest recidivism rates." HIsXLNC

Well, at least Paul wants to put SOMEONE in jail. Of course, it's never the violent felon.

And Paul's recurring claim that 60% of crime guns come from 1.2% of gun dealers is blatantly false, and quite absurd if you consider the numbers he's throwing around. His claims that criminals are getting their guns from gun shows are equally false. Here are the numbers according to the Dept. of Justice:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

" A flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%.
A retail store or pawn shop for 12%.
Family, friends, street buy, or an illegal source for 80%."

[Thirdpower]

According to IANSA documents, Mexico is considered "industrialized", is a member of the OECD, and has a higher per capita homicide rate than the US. 5.11 vs 3.92. Both Brazil, Russia and South Africa are also considered "industrialized" (all are G8+5 members) but are not members of the OECD and have higher firearm homicide rates than the US. 21.07,(hom­icide around 20/100K) , 22.04.

All four nations have very strict gun control.

[Jaywalkker]

I once posted FBI - UCR/US Census statistics that showed CA, TX, and NY have the highest per capita homocide by firearm of any state, in a 1-2-3 position. CA, TX, and NY have the highest state populations in the same 1-2-3 position. Coincidentally, CA and NY have very strict gun laws compared to TX. CA and TX are both border states and NY has its own high immigration/mixed demography. I made the corollary conclusion that gun crime was more prevalent due to sheer people density regardless of demographics, geographic location, or more importantly the laws on the books.

Nobody bit on that and no one will bite on yours. Anti-gunners tend to like their supporting statistics and ignore yours.

[prayforroy]

Well, given the fact Louisiana has had the nation's highest per capita homicide rate for the past 20 years (1998-2008), I'd say your "corollary conclusion" is way wrong.

BTW, wherever you got the stats that CA, NY, and TX had the highest homicide rates--they're simply wrong. The highest homicide rates are 1. Louisiana. 2. Maryland. 3. Nevada. None of which have strict gun laws.

Yes, we like our own stats as opposed to yours--which are very likely made up.

[prayforroy]

Typo: 1988-2008.

[SewaneeLeftist]

Once again, Mr. Helmke, an eloquent, fact-supported argument. Who'd a thunk Sen. Ensign would provide so much help for gun control?

[djcrsn]

There is nothing in the Constitution or in the rulings of the Supreme Court that supports the gun bans demanded by you or supported by Helmke and the BC

[fishyjay]

SewaneeLeftist,

Paul Helmke wrote, in admiration: "England and Wales have less than 200 total gun deaths in an average year."

So why doesn't he mention or advocate the gun control policies of England and Wales: The banning and confiscation of all handguns and all pump action and semiauto hunting rifles and shotguns?

[mike102]

Nor does Paul mention the fact that England's violent crime rate skyrocketed the minute they banned guns in 1997. It did not level off until 2004.

The gangbangers in England took to using pocket knives, so the Brits banned those. Some crazy Scotsman committed a crime using a sword, so swords were banned. Now they are trying to ban large cooking knives. British teachers are demanding 'knife-proof' vests.

Then, the Brits installed security cameras all over the place, so the criminals took to wearing hooded jackets/sw­eatshirts, so the Brits are thinking about banning those. There is proposed legislation before Parliament, that would protect home-invaders from being physically harmed by the occupants of the invaded home.

And, the British have a 'duty to retreat' law. If someone breaks into your house, you are legally obligated to flee with your family, rather than defend your home.

I wouldn't be holding England up as an example, if I was Paul.

[Jaywalkker]

Here's a fun fact for anti-gunner's to think about. The non-gun owner has more anonymity with the government than the gun owner does. If you get a CCW you have even less anonymity.

Purchasing a firearm legally puts you in a massive database of state and federal records that says what you own and how many. Having a CCW registers your photograph and fingerprints into a state and federal database, voluntarily, much like what criminals themselves are tracked through. Owning a gun puts you on a more discerning "radar" than owning a car. Gun owners can not get away with ANY illegality because we just put all of our vital data into multiple databases that are one fo the first checked when a crime is investigated. So in a way, if we were actually thinking of committing a crime, we'd all think twice about it because there's already an eye on us. Personally I look askance at the people who voluntarily take themselves OFF the radar.

[Explorer]

Leave it to Paul to twist facts to fit into his agenda again.

But while we are licensing rights, lets start at the TOP of the list - the First Amendment contains the right to free speech. The courts have ruled it is not unlimited so whay not license those who tell us working folks what we are supposed to believe? (Like Mr. Paul H. here) Then we could all be forced into the neat little Obamabot box they want us to fit in.
WIth rights and freedom come responsiblities. With socialism comes an ever increasing dependency on the Goobermint to make our choices, provide us with the things we need to live, etc. I'd rather live free than be told what I can do, say, own, beleive, or think. American used to be such a place. Folks like Mr. Paul H here have been working to kill that freedom for a few decades now. NO THANKS!

Maybe if we actually enforced a few laws (i.e. remove repeat offenders from the streets) and taught some basic individual responsibilities in school (not depend on the Goobermint) we'd have less crime. But that would have us returning to the days when folks were not afraid to leave their doors unlocked and criminals were afraid of homeowners as they very well would kill then dead.

But if we did that many of the clowns in today's media and special interest groups would have to get productive jobs and contribute to positively to society!!!

[Berettasskeeter]

Interesting you should bring up the 1st Amendment. The Obama administration just signed on to a U.N. resolution calling on states to condemn and criminalize any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence. Coming from the U.N. that means that we may not have the right to criticize Islam much longer, using truth as our criticisms. This is a direct assault on our Constitution, which Obama has agreed to by having his Admin. sign on.
Semper fi

[Carolyn LeBeauf]

The major crisis with the health care reform ,is having people like Ensigh, who profess his family values, in a committee working on health reform. Ensign, having an affair, breaking the law by paying off his mistress and her family, and sitting in congress making laws that will effect the lives of the masses. These hypocrits show be arrested at the steps of the WHITE HOUSE.

[OdinsEye]

Why would Ensign be arrested at the White House?

[capitaldysfunction]

Ensign also said that we like our guns in this country (implying that there are more guns here than in Europe), and he said the Europeans use public transportation to a greater degree than Americans whereas Americans drive cars. Therefore Americans die or are maimed in much greater numbers by car accidents and guns. These are indisputable facts but the statistics or construct he is using to prove his point sounds soft or a contrivance. Any good statisticians out there to address this?

[hardlyhikin]

"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.­..

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.

"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof...­"

So why aren't all you "strict constructionists" reading Section 8 of the Constitution. Why aren't we demanding an organized, disciplined, trained militia as called for. With rights (Second Amendment) come responsibilities.

[OdinsEye]

We have militias. However, the right to keep and bear arms is not dependent on participation in a militia.

[HisXLNC]

There are organized, disciplined, and trained militia groups out there.

The gun controllers don't like them either.

In fact, the gun controllers hate every interpretation of the Second Amendment that doesn't limit guns exclusively to the government.

[Explorer]

"Why aren't we demanding an organized, disciplined, trained militia"

Please go research what a militia is legally defined as. FYI - there are two elements, the organized militia (as you refer to) and the unorganized. The chances are GREAT YOU are legally part of the unorganized militia! (and do not even realize it).

We have both elements, one if the National Guard and the other is law abiding, responsible citizens. Now are YOU ready to fulfil YOUR legally mandated role?

[Berettasskeeter]

A great many people have interpreted the 2d Amendment as requiring the government to provide training and firearms, on demand, to the populace of the country. As the 2d Amendment applies first and foremost to the unorganized militia, and a militia has a responsibility to their communities, it could be argued that military-grade, individual, firearms should be issued.
Semper fi

[Bandofotters]

Paul,

When have you or your group ever supported anything to curb gun violence that didn't involve the gun itself? I find that not only ironic but a sign of an alterior motive.

Education initiatives: none
Safety initiatives: none
anti-poverty initiatives: none
judicial reform: none

[Thirdpower]

Interesting that Paul chooses to promote the views of a Senator who is in the midst of a scandal and has little chance of re-election. Perhaps Helmke should have looked at the other Huffpo blogs about him first.

[jan4insight]

Um, I think the reference to Ensign's statement was meant to be ironic!

[OdinsEye]

"What is Europe doing that we in America aren't?"

Here is a hint: It has nothing to do with gun control.

[Thirdpower]

The US accounts for approximately 40% of civilian firearm ownership in the world. Since it's regularly claimed that guns cause crime, one would then expect the US to have 40% of the worlds firearm homicides or deaths.

IANSA states that there are about 1000 firearm deaths/day, 250 of which are of a military nature. The remainder are homicides (560), suicides (140), and unintentional (50).

So let's do some crunching.

US firearm homicides/day (34)/World firearm homicides/day (560)= 6.1%

A discrepancy of 33.9% if guns cause crime.

US firearm suicides/day (~46.5)/Wo­rld firearm suicides (140) = 33.3%

A discrepancy of 6.7% if guns cause suicide.

US firearm unintentional and unknown deaths/day (2.77)/ World unintentional firearm deaths/day (50) = 5.5%

A discrepancy of 34.5%.

So the US is missing about 190 homicides, 10 suicides, and 17 unintentional deaths by firearm/ day according to the anti's own numbers. So while the US does have a higher number of suicides by firearm than many nations, it does not have higher suicides overall nor does it equal the percentage of ownership. The US also only accounts for about 1/20th of the firearm homicides and accidents when the anti logic says it should be 8x higher.

So since the private ownership of firearms isn't 'causing' firearm crime or deaths, isn't 'causing' crime of any sort, and industrialization isn't a common factor, perhaps there are other factors involved.

[ignrnthllblly]

Number of straw men shot dead by statistical arguments.­..all of 'em, baby, all of 'em.

[Thirdpower]

So Paul selectively choosing countries to make a claim that gun control = less gun deaths is OK but showing that the US DOESN'T have the highest firearm deaths nor the loosest gun control is a 'strawman'.

Gotcha.

[BusGreg]

Your explanation of these numbers is akin to this gem.
How Many Days Do We Work???
There are 365 days in a year. Subtract 104 days for Saturdays and Sundays, that leaves 261 days. Subtract from that 7 holidays you have 251 days left. Subtract from that 14 days for vacation and there are 237 days left. Subtract 8 hours a day for sleep - 1/3 of the day - and then there are 158 days left. Since we work 8 hours, that is another 1/3 of the day, so we actually work only 52.6 days a year!
We need better gun laws, from background checks to licensing ALL gun owners. Too much fear mongering and scare tactics coming from such partisan organizations do NOTHING to curb the gun violence in this country.

[Thirdpower]

No, actually it's not. Basic math skills are a necessity.

Howabout we actually look at the CAUSES of violence in the country? Poverty, racism, lack of education, etc.

Far easier to blame inanimate objects though, isn't it?

Why don't you show a direct causality to where and when licensing has been imposed and a decrease in violence? If you can, you'ld be the first.

[OdinsEye]

We have background checks. Licensing accomplishes nothing and it is potentially an unconstitutional application of what the courts refer to as "prior restraint".

[LindaCat]

Who is committing the gun crime? Who are the victims? Broken down by demographics one can design strategies to address crime more effectively and efficiently. Laws that treat firearms crime as though it is statistically evenly distributed impact law abiding, voting citizens disproportionately, sometimes missing the target group completely.
Licensing has proven to have no effect other than harassment of non-criminals and/or confiscation.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/09/22/guns-toronto-seized-police523.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/13/39we-want-them-registered39/

[prayforroy]

Let us pray.

TP's "analysis" suffers from an erroneous premise: "The US accounts for approximately 40% of civilian firearm ownership in the world. Since it's regularly claimed that guns cause crime, one would then expect the US to have 40% of the worlds firearm homicides or deaths."


This premise might be true if the US had the same social, political and economic conditions as every other country in the world . Since it does not--TP's premise crumbles under its own illogic.

[OdinsEye]

And once again Jade gold drives a nail in the coffin in which international comparisions regarding gun control success is buried.

[Thirdpower]

So Japan has the same 'social, political, and economic conditions' as the US? Really? So does France and the UK? Really?

[Jaywalkker]

Please compare the following statistics of death in America objectively and tell me, what's the biggest obstacles regarding health outcomes in America:

FBI Uniform Crime Reports (2008):
Homocide (total firearms - tbl 8) = 9,484
Justified homocide law enforcement & citizen (total firearms - tbl 14/15) = 572
Total homocide from firearm = 10,056
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/index.html

CDC Fast Stats (2006)...
Top 10 leading causes of death; heart disease | cancer | stroke | respiratory disease | accidents | diabetes | Alzheimer's | Nephrotic cases | septicemia = 1,855,610
Heart disease alone accounts for a whopping 1/3 of that total (631,636). Firearms related death didn't make the list at all, except the 642* that accounts for 0.53% of the #5 killer, Accidents. In fact, you're 12x more likely to die by accident (121,599 total) than shot in a murderous rampage.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm
*pg 44, National vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 57, No. 14, 4/17/2009 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

[BusGreg]

Ask any Emergency room doctor what he or she thinks. They are the ones who have to clean up the mess caused by unregulated guns!

[Thirdpower]

"Unregulated"? What does that mean? Howabout in places where they are 'regulated' and violence still occurs?

[djcrsn]

Since about 70% or more of the shooting involves criminals==how about keeping criminals in prison

[Jaywalkker]

Furthermore, why don't we ask ER doctor what they think about patching up people have horrible car wrecks. Especially when seat belt wasn't used and/or air bag didn't deploy. YEAH that's a mess - we should ban cars.

Especially seeing as how they caused 45,316* deaths and untold injuries.

*pg 35, National vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 57, No. 14, 4/17/2009 http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

[OdinsEye]

Or maybe ask a cop? HINT HINT

[Explorer]

I have. In fact I teach gun safety courses with a couple. Does that answer both your request AND provide you a hint what their answer is?