McCain On Crime Gun Trace Data

During Sen. John McCain's speech to a National Rifle Association gathering in D.C. in September 2007, he said the following:

So you know, my friends, you're a sophisticated crowd. You know politics and you know politicians. You're pretty used to hearing aspirants for public office come before you and pledge fealty to the cause of the Second Amendment. You know you need to dig into a politician's record to find out where they really stand. You know some will change their positions or have little record for you to judge, and my friends, that's not the case with me.

While Sen. McCain did reference his support for closing the gun show loophole, as I've discussed before, he implied that this was the only gun control issue where he parted ways with the NRA.

My staff did a little digging and found an interesting passage from a longer floor speech Sen. McCain delivered to the Senate in January 2004. In it, he takes three common-sense stands in favor of what are today key items in the Brady Campaign's legislative agenda.

First, Sen. McCain spoke against the restrictions on ATF trace data sponsored by Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), even as those restrictions were pushed by the National Rifle Association. (As Rep. Tiahrt said himself, "I wanted to make sure I was fulfilling the needs of my friends who are firearms dealers." NRA officials "were very helpful in making sure I had my bases covered," Rep. Tiahrt said.)

Next, Sen. McCain spoke against the requirement to destroy records of firearms transactions within 24 hours, preferring the 90-day rule that gave law enforcement time to catch prohibited purchasers not immediately rejected by Brady criminal background checks.

Finally, Sen. McCain spoke against the prohibition on ATF to conduct inventory audits of licensed gun dealers, which allowed law enforcement to keep track of "lost" or "stolen" weapons - like the Bushmaster assault rifle used by the DC snipers.

For some reason, there has been little discussion of Sen. McCain's 2004 statements about the Tiahrt restrictions against ATF, the 24-hour record destruction rule, and the inventory audit procedures of gun stores. There is no mention of them on his campaign Web site, in his speeches to the NRA, nor in the recent discussions he had with NRA leadership.

Here are Sen. McCain's comments from 2004:

"Instant Check/Gun Provision

Mr. President, let me state from the outset that I take a backseat to no one in my support for Second Amendment rights, and I have supported nearly every law that protects the rights of law abiding gun owners since first coming to Washington. But there is a special interest rider included in this Omnibus appropriations bill that's absolutely appalling. The House sponsor of this provision has argued that it benefits gun owners, but the only gun owners it seems to help are those who have broken the law!

This rider has three major provisions - all of them unnecessary for gun owners and none of them helpful for law enforcement. First, it requires that background check approval records be destroyed within 24 hours instead of the current policy of 90 days. Proponents argue that keeping these records for 90 days constitutes a national firearm registry.

I want to be very clear that I oppose federal registration of firearms. I also want to be equally clear that our current policy of keeping these records for 90 days does not constitute in any way, shape, or form a national registry. It's a phony issue.

The 90 days retention allows the NICS system to correct mistakes that occur when they accidentally approve someone who should have been denied a gun in the first place. This happens about 500 times a year, according to GAO. Nearly all of these false approvals are because of missing domestic violence records. So, as far as I can tell, this provision benefits no one except those who should have been denied a firearm, but were not.

The second provision prevents ATF from conducting an inventory audit of licensed gun stores. This means that ATF auditors will have no way of knowing if a gun store is missing firearms - a sure sign that they are selling guns illegally and without the proper background checks.

Mr. President, in Tacoma, Washington, ATF auditors discovered 233 firearms missing from Bull's Eye Shooters Supply store. One of those weapons was used by the accused DC-area snipers. Why are we putting special language in a must-pass federal spending bill to protect a store like Bull's Eye? Consider the potential consequences.

And a third provision prohibits the public release of crime gun trace information. This information is not top secret data that jeopardizes our national security, or hinders law enforcement. We cannot have a government that operates in secret and refuses to release information that shows where criminals have obtained a gun.

This provision has no support from the law enforcement community, and was even opposed by Chairman Young and Subcommittee Chairman Wolf. Yet, here it is today, included in this terrible bill. Mr. President, this language is an embarrassment to law abiding gun owners and is a slap in the face to law enforcement."

It would be very interesting to hear whether Sen. McCain still supports these positions today.

(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog and the Huffington Post.)

Comments

[djkrlsn]

Solitude--I believe you were looking for someone advocating private ownership of nuclear weapons--look at the commetns of the poster stupidme responding to Eugene Volokh's March 21 column on conservative judges.

[Thirdpower2]

Just so everyone can see Guy Cabot's original claims:

"Well, given the fact NRA member emeritus, Tim McVeigh, worked as a straw purchaser for FFLs before he discovered a bomb recipe on an NRA bulletin board..."

Note that nothing in his little links even remotely resembles this claim.

"Sergeant Witcher said Sergeant McVeigh had belonged to the National Rifle Association, but when the organization seemed to be taking a softer position on the banning of assault rifles, he wrote an angry letter dropping out of the organization and canceling his subscription to the N.R.A. magazine."

The New York Times
May 4, 1995

[Jadegold]

Still more on Tim McVeigh, NRA member emeritus:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UK9e3ZbfVFgC&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=mcveigh+gun+shows+buyer&source=web&ots=ZHRiTTJ3xL&sig=k1QkHUEVT8NiPbbNZievs8OenLg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

[djkrlsn]

Jade--your repeated, pointless posting of "Tim McVeigh, NRA member emeritus" attacks just demonstrate desperation and a profound hatred for the civil rights of others (on the logic if person X is evil and belong to organizationY--everyone belonging to the same organization is evil and you can justify punishing all of them

[MMimi]

I believe you have just described yourself. Thanks.

[Jadegold]

Just so we're clear as to NRA member emeritus, Tim McVeigh. After he got out of the Army, he started following the gun show circuit. Defenders and admirers of McVeigh like Roy Kubicek note McVeigh was merely selling copies of racist tracts and bumperstickers. This is only partially true.

McVeigh also acted as a straw purchaser at the behest of gun dealers at the gun shows.

As a source, check out 'American Terrorist' by Lou Michel and Dan Herbeck (Harper Collins, 2001). This bio of McVeigh was the only one authorized by McVeigh.

{{On September 13, 1994 the gun shows McVeigh attended had become somber occasions. New laws had been passed to stop the manufacture of many types of weaponry, including a range of semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Gun traders and buyers alike were outraged to learn the government was controlling their "right to bear arms".

To McVeigh, it also meant his livelihood was endangered. He had been buying weapons under his own name and charging a brokerage fee to other buyers those who didn't want their names on government forms.}}

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/turner_7.html

[djkrlsn]

Kelli and Jade-- I am still waiting for a coherent answer from you about how the term "right of the people" has its obvious meaning in the first, fourth, ninth and tenth amendments, but means the exact opposite in the second amendment

[edutilos]

Another sad tragedy you lot refuse to believe actually happens. Young girl takes gun from grandma's purse (in public) and proceed to shoot herself. Seem to recall the mantra about "there's no such thing as an accidental shooting, only accidental discharges." There is no defense for this happening...(Unless your argument is the 4-year old knew the repercussions of her actions?)

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=110653

[Thirdpower2]

None have claimed that these incidents "never happen". You and your ilk, however, would have it seem that they occur to the majority of firearm owners. Obviously we don't see this happening tens of millions of times each year.

[edutilos]

How many is enough to warrant further looks into the current situation, though? Hundred? Thousand? Twenty thousand? 30,000+...?

When is enough enough?

[molonlabe]

There you go again, over-generalizing firearm accidents as common place when in fact they have been proven a statistical anomaly.

I'm really glad you called attention to that whole over-generalization issue. Makes sense.

I love how the anti's seem to imply that there should be a zero-tolerance standard when it comes to firearms when there are other consumer goods out there which are responsible for far more accidents per year than firearms?

[djkrlsn]

Motor vehicles, bikes, and swimming pools would all have to be high on that accidental injury and death list

[molonlabe]

Remember folks, Kelli only wants law enforcement to have access to firearms because they are trained professionals.

"A NYC police officer has pleaded guilty to Federal charges of robbing a bank in Berks County at gun point...."

http://wfmz.com/view/?id=283743

[Thirdpower2]

To be fair she has also stated it would be acceptable for the rich and famous to have access as well because they are more important that the "unwashed masses".

[molonlabe]

Well how else is Rosie O'Donnell going to get her kids to school?!

[edutilos]

That's one...of how many?

Here's another (classic DEA dip****): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY

The point is not their own bad judgment but instead, how easily one can nitpick the few bad apples out of the bunch and generalize based on an extremely (!) limited sample size. I would've thought even you, melon, could see the apparent flaws in this broad over-generalization.

[Thirdpower2]

You mean like how certain people here do w/ their anecdotes about pro-rights supporters?

[molonlabe]

"The point is not their own bad judgment but instead, how easily one can nitpick the few bad apples out of the bunch and generalize based on an extremely (!) limited sample size. I would've thought even you, melon, could see the apparent flaws in this broad over-generalization."

Oh, wait a minute. You mean like when anti's like yourself and jadegold over-generalize all law abiding gun owners as NRA extremists who only care about arming The Children(tm) with bazookas and nukes?

Or overgeneralizing "assault weapons" as killing machines when they are used in 2.9% of murders?

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

[djkrlsn]

Jade, Kelli and Marsha--you have yet to answer the basic question (based on the fact that per federal law the militia and the citizenry are identical), why the term "the right of the people" does not mean precisely the same thing all four times it occurs in the BOR (especially since none of you has ever denied the right to effective self defense)

[djkrlsn]

Jade,Kelli and Marsha--I have a bit of a problem--with any one else, I would tell you to follow the advise of the PInk Pistols (Go Pick on someone in your calibre), but you three not only earn a poster from Jeff Foxworthy (the signs he gives to the people asking a person loading all their household goods into a UHaul if they going someplace) but you three would come out behind in the gameshow "are you smarter that a dead sea slug"

[DMeadows]

Just a minor quibble: the Southern-style comedian who jokes about signs for stupid people is Bill Engvall, not Jeff Foxworthy.
http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/heresign.asp

[djkrlsn]

My mistake--but you got the not so subtle point--and besides they are both funny

[molonlabe]

"Lets get some things done to deal with gun violence. Let's show that gun control could work if we tried it in this country..." -Paul Helmke

http://blog.nysrpa.org/?p=1408

More laws, folks. All we need is more laws. Plain and simple.

Wow.

[ladyshooter]

Murder is already unlawful. Yet some people do it, anyway.

[edutilos]

So is speeding, DMeadows, sorry ladyshooter - as well as jaywalking, fudging their taxes, and not wearing their seatbelts. Where's the outcry condemning them (all of us) as hardened criminals? DUI have destroyed many families, killed many people, and wrecked many lives, but no matter the numerous additional laws put into place each year, it still continues. Following your logic, we should ignore the problem and "maybe" it'll just go away. Hopefully, even you can hear how absurd that sounds.

[molonlabe]

Doug Pennington.....paging Doug Pennington..........

http://blog.nysrpa.org/?p=1408


I don't know, Doug. Seems to me the Brady Campaign isn't as gun friendly as you claim it to be...

"Most of those challenges will likely be brought by criminal defendants trying to escape prosecution..." -Dennis Henigan on lawsuits subquent to Heller decision.

"Right wing activists judges...." -Dennis Henigan

And STILL harping on the militia/collective right.

Yeah, Doug. We believe you. ; )

[MorgansRifles]

molonlabe:

Amazing! He conveniently forgets "Emerson" (Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal) and cherry-picks the details of Miller decision.

And they wonder why we don't believe them.

Thanks for the post!

Michael

[djkrlsn]

Hennigan did not cherrypick the Miller decision--he completely misrepresented what the decision said.

[Thirdpower2]

Dennis Henigan is the Brady Constitutional Lawyer who, when quoting the 2A, selectively deleted the words "of the people".

Telling isn't it?

[molonlabe]

Maybe Dennis Henigan just really really REALLY believes in the collective right argument THAT strongly........

What's that old saying about lying so much that you start to believe it to be fact?

[ladyshooter]

Maybe hennigan is having vision problems. Like the old proverb: "There are none so blind as those, who do not wish to see."

[Jadegold]

{{
3. How many FFLs do you know who refer felons to straw purchasers? Again, absurd. Why would a licensed dealer risk his license and his freedom for 10 years, to be involved in such a deal? That makes no sense. }}


Well, given the fact NRA member emeritus, Tim McVeigh, worked as a straw purchaser for FFLs before he discovered a bomb recipe on an NRA bulletin board...

As to why? Money. The chances of getting caught are pretty remote.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V75-43YH09R-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f58b078515472e0c635099e08dc5a612

[Thirdpower2]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Oh god that's so sad.

[Thirdpower2]

Oh, that's funny. And what "message board" would that be Jade? The same one that the 6.9 million invisible people in Chicago frequent?

[molonlabe]

Oh my. That folks, is CLASSIC jadegold.

What a treat we are getting today.

[fishyjay]

My first reaction is to post the NY Times McVeigh/NRA article again -- then I realize that Jadegold does not care what the truth is.

[muffinman2]

I would like to see the article. I tried to find it, but there are far too many to sift through.

Jade, a link to a message board is hardly an objective, reputable source.

[muffinman2]

Sorry, that link doesn't prove anything either.

[Jadegold]

{{2. He can go to a gun show, but doesn't. He is a convicted felon, and is not allowed in gun shows. Just maybe this is why less than 2% of crime guns come from gun shows.}}

Muffy seems to believe all people who attend gun shows receive a background check.

They don't.

Nor are all the folks selling guns at the gun show required to be FFLs. And if they're not--no background check.

[Thirdpower2]

So you would support non-FFL access to the NICS system? That would close the "private sale loophole".

[muffinman2]

But still, they don't get their guns from gun shows. Less than 2%, remember?

[Jadegold]

{{1. No, he can't buy a gun from the want ads, unless it is first shipped to a FFL in his state, in which case he has to go through the same NICS check, etc. That's absurd. Where do you get this stuff?}}

To the contrary. He can pick up a PennySaver and have his pick of firearms.

http://www.gunloophole.com/

[Thirdpower2]

Ah, so a private sale which cannot go through NICS due to the Brady Law. No different than any other private sale.

[muffinman2]

This post of mine that you are quoting hasn't posted yet, or at least it isn't there now, so I just reposted. How did you see it, just out of curiosity?

[Thirdpower2]

I see two of them. Sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't. I've seen posts appear several hours after the "Comments Pending" box showed "0".

[muffinman2]

Well, apparently it is legal in some places, but Illinois? The one ad does say FOID required, and this gun was purchased by the subject of the article. I would assume he had a FOID if he bought the gun.

[Thirdpower2]

All firearm sales in IL require a FOID card. To sell one to a person w/o a card is a crime.

[edutilos]

yeah but JadeGold, see what happened was...and then...Josh Sugarman...you just don't have all the facts!

Typical!

[Thirdpower2]

It should be noted, that w/ Jade's regular claims that the NRA believes, endorses, teaches one thing or another, that the linked website is just another Joyce Foundation puppet site.

No surprise.

[djkrlsn]

Kelli, if you hate bullying so much, why do you cyberbully your opposition? In tems of deadly force, civilians are just as accountable as police officers are, in fact the people who go through the procedures to obtain concealed carry permits are more law abiding than the police. According to a retired LAPD captain that I know, the basic standard for deadly force here in California is the what is called the "reasonable person standard"--meaning that deadly force is legal when a reasonable person can identify a clear and immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury (this threat can be based on discrepency of ability (a small or elderly or disabled person facing a more physically powerful person, there are weapons involved (bat, knife, gun etc), the victim is outnumbered)_

[Jadegold]

{{In tems of deadly force, civilians are just as accountable as police officers are, in fact the people who go through the procedures to obtain concealed carry permits are more law abiding than the police. }}

Nope. Not even close. In reality, such a comment is offensive to police officers.

Today, thanks to the NRA, anybody can buy a firearm. It matters not if the person is a felon, mentally ill, has substance abuse problems, physical impairments, etc. If they have cash, they can get a gun.

Further, there is no requirement for the person buying a firearm to have any training in the use, maintenance, or legalities concerning firearms.

[Thirdpower2]

Now Guy is just spouting the usual rhetoric when he has been shown to be wrong and can't provide anything to support himself.

The standard "NRA" ad hominems.

[muffinman2]

"Today, thanks to the NRA, anybody can buy a firearm. It matters not if the person is a felon, mentally ill, has substance abuse problems, physical impairments, etc. If they have cash, they can get a gun."

Jade, that is the biggest lie I ever saw you tell. None of the above can buy a firearm legally.

You have got to be kidding. How stupid do you think peope are?

It's amazing, the gall you have.

[Jadegold]

Massad Ayoob:

{{ "The average American has more misconceptions about lethal force in the home than in any other self-defense situation. He not only has little understanding of his legal position under these circumstances; he has no idea of how to conduct himself if, by infinitesimal chance, the day comes when his home actually is turned into a battleground he must defend against armed criminals." }}

Bear in mind, Ayoob is an NRA cultist whose livlihood depends on getting folks to sign up for hi training courses. But in this instance, he is right.

[ebaLnoloM]

Today, thanks to the anti-rights lobby wasting finite time and resources on legislation which seeks to regulate implements instead of prosecuting and incarcerating criminals, any criminal can acquire a stolen firearm:

"When police recovered the 12-gauge shotgun, Johnson blurted, "you got my gun, there is no bodies on it, now I plead the fifth," according to court documents. The gun had been stolen from Suffolk County, N.Y., police said."

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-assault0616-cn,0,2256924.story

[ebaLnoloM]

Today, thanks to the anti-rights lobby's fascination with implements instead of addressing the behaviorial problems associated with violence and compulsive behavior, criminals can just as easily be violent with knives as with guns:

"Allentown police said Robledo became angry during a game of dominos at 2 a.m. at N. Jordan and Allen streets and punched Jaon Roman in the face several times, giving him a bloody nose. Ismael Ortiz and Angel Monserrate tried to break them apart, but Robledo pulled out a knife, police said.

He slashed Monseratte in the stomach and Ortiz in the left rib cage area, leaving lacerations, police said. When he was arrested, Robledo had a strong odor of alcohol, police said.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-dominos-0613cn,0,5079566.story