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"Suicide Shooters" - Going To "War" With Government


On Thursday, an individual who had "serious grievances with the city government" in the St. Louis suburb of Kirkwood, Missouri brought his gun to the police station and then a City Council meeting and killed five people - first two police officers, then two council members and the public works director - and wounded two others, including the mayor.

According to the killer's brother, the shooter "went to war tonight with the people, the government that was putting torment and strife into his life." News reports mentioned that the shooter "felt harassed" because police "cracked down on his parking of vehicles for his construction company outside his home...."

After two arrests for disorderly conduct at council meetings in 2006, and a subsequent conviction, the shooter continued to regularly attend and disrupt council meetings, making "inappropriate noises, heehawing like a donkey" and making "derogatory comments."

The shooter's brother said, "he has spoke [sic] on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied all rights to the access of protection and he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue."

We also learned yesterday about an aborted "large-scale shooting rampage" at the Super Bowl from an individual who "purchased an AR-15 assault rifle from a Phoenix-area gun store on Jan. 29" along with 200 rounds of ammunition, and "planned a massacre as a form of revenge against the Tempe, Ariz. City Council - because it overwhelmingly denied a liquor license for his restaurant."

In a letter mailed before he decided not to carry out the attack, the gun buyer said that "I cannot outvote, outspend, outtax or outincarcerate my enemies ... but for a brief moment I can outgun them."

These two stories raise a number of issues - the weakness of our gun laws nationally, as well as in most of the states; the easy accessibility of assault rifles and large stores of ammunition; the non-deterrent effect of police carrying guns and the disregard by those who are willing to be "suicide shooters" for their own lives; and the highly-charged level of controversy involved in much of local government activity.

This last point deserves some more attention. One of the first times I got involved in a controversy with the gun lobby was when, as Mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana, I suggested that individuals not be allowed to bring guns into our City-County building. (The County, which owned the building, had just banned guns from the County Courthouse and I argued there were just as many contentious issues being discussed and decided by the legislative and administrative parts of local government as by the judicial part.)

The gun lobby saw this suggestion as an attack on their "Second Amendment rights" and responded strongly. As someone who had received death threats and been called a "dictator" because of other government issues, I knew that there were a lot of people who I did not want to see carrying guns into city meetings and the offices of city employees.

These incidents all highlight the tensions involved when individuals argue that their "personal liberty" outweighs the rule of law and trumps community policy as decided by our governmental systems.

These tensions are part of the legal debate about the Second Amendment in the D.C. v. Heller case pending in the U.S. Supreme Court. In the brief filed for Heller on Monday, his lawyers argue in favor of the "individual use of Second-Amendment-protected arms to check despotism" and the importance of "retaining the ability to resist tyranny."

The killer in Kirkwood and the would-be shooter at the Super Bowl both thought they had to act to "check despotism" and "resist tyranny." But encouraging easier access to dangerous weapons by dangerous people puts us all at risk. We need to value the rule of law along with the claims of individual liberty or we all suffer.

(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog and the Huffington Post.)

 
 
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12:25 PM on 02/21/2008
The reality of gun violence has changed things in America. Also, with the Anti-gun crowd trying to 'poison the well' here, good communication on gun issues is proving to be very difficult. Dissatisfied with the views they're reading from others, the gun crowd apparently turns to harassment in order to be heard. Harassment doesn't work for long, though. People get tired of it, fairly quickly. The Brady Campaign/Paul Helmke are far worse & less patient listeners than I could ever be with this particular loud group. Shame on BC & Paul! I don't know how you stand them ... but somehow, you all do.
06:27 PM on 02/21/2008
Pathetic, thirdwhatever. Just pathetic.
11:33 AM on 02/21/2008
The reality of gun violence has changed things in America. Also, with the pro-gun crowd trying to 'poison the well' here, good communication on gun issues is proving to be very difficult. Dissatisfied with the views they're reading from others, the gun crowd apparently turns to harassment in order to be heard. Harassment doesn't work for long, though. People get tired of it, fairly quickly. The Brady Campaign/Paul Helmke are far better & more patient listeners than I could ever be with this particular loud group. Kudos BC & Paul! I don't know how you stand them ... but somehow, you all do.

Kelli
11:56 AM on 02/21/2008
Do you have an ounce of scholarly research talent in you? Has it completely escaped your notice that "gun violence" is a result, and not a catalyst? What part of American history and the history of most other western worlds is so damn hard to understand? My offer is still open, Kelli, if you want an education in actual history and actual law. No spin, no opinion, I will offer only exactly what, when, and where events took place, why they took place, and the exact letter of the law. It would be irresponsible of me to have spent so much time researching these topics to not pass it to others, no?

Now stop insulting people and stop focusing on gun violence as if it's somehow worse than knife violence and baseball bat violence. Or crock-pot violence (wonder who remembers this one).
06:20 PM on 02/21/2008
Sneaky/Connor ~ In the future, you'll have to ask others for their viewpoints.
12:44 PM on 02/21/2008
Kelli, you accuse the pro-rights people here of lying, based on nothing, all the time, and that's supposed to be OK. However, when we CATCH someone lying, from the anti-rights side, it's harassment? Haven't you pretty much worn out that strategy by now?

Apparently, whatever pro-rights people are doing, IS working. We have 31 states, and the majority of Congresscritters from both houses, all filing briefs in favor of Heller, to back us up on that.

It makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.
12:49 PM on 02/21/2008
Don't forget the UNANIMOUS passing of Castle Doctrine in the WV senate.
10:26 AM on 02/21/2008
Mr. Helmke

When can we be expecting a retraction from Peter Hamm, regarding the false statements he made regarding funding for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus? No doubt he will be going before the same cameras, so his retraction will receive the same coverage as his false statements, correct?

They are clearly not "funded by the gun industry, by the companies that are selling the guns,".
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molonlabe
Before you ban it, at least learn what it is.
09:56 AM on 02/21/2008
Maybe someone can help me.

I'm having a hard time understanding how something like this can happen. A restraining Order is a Court Order. And it is against the law to violate a Court Order. So how is it that someone can become a victim of violent crime when there are laws in place which are aimed at preventing this from happening?

Oh, yeah, can it be because criminals don't obey laws?

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=7901057
11:43 AM on 02/20/2008
It's no mystery why the anti-gun types here sound ice-cold and edgy after incidents of gun violence ... they still want to deny access to firearms at any cost to society. I was going to say that they are naive, at best ... but I don't think they are anywhere close to even that low level of understanding &/or sincerity. Their stale, erroneous anti-gunrights political agenda seems to be set in stone ~ better to talk to a brick wall!
10:26 AM on 02/20/2008
It's no mystery why the progun types here sound ice-cold and edgy after incidents of gun violence ... they still want access to their high-powered, dangerous firearms at any cost to society. I was going to say that they are naive, at best ... but I don't think they are anywhere close to even that low level of understanding &/or sincerity. Their stale, erroneous gunrights political agenda seems to be set in stone ~ better to talk to a brick wall!

K
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molonlabe
Before you ban it, at least learn what it is.
10:37 AM on 02/20/2008
So Kelli, you would have rathered seen these two women raped instead of being saved by a law-abiding, non-LEO citizen with a leagally owned firearm?

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/19/e19attackweb/
09:42 PM on 02/20/2008
Sure. The poor rapist was a victim of "gunviolence".
09:33 PM on 02/20/2008
There are the insults for us, but you forgot the platitudes for Helmke.

I gather that you have no comment regarding the fact that the BC just got caught lying through it's teeth about the SCCC being funded by the "gun industry"
10:14 AM on 02/20/2008
Doesn't anyone from the opposition have any thoughts on the Sugarman issue? Anyone?
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molonlabe
Before you ban it, at least learn what it is.
10:51 AM on 02/20/2008
Kelli will respond to you as soon as she gathers enough bails of hay to build a Strawman big enough to counter that issue.
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molonlabe
Before you ban it, at least learn what it is.
10:03 AM on 02/20/2008
Sorry, forgot the link:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/19/e19attackweb/
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molonlabe
Before you ban it, at least learn what it is.
10:03 AM on 02/20/2008
Hum. Another gun used in a defensive situation and guess what...no "dangerous crossfire(tm)" and no "blood running in the streets(tm)."

Paul, with this sex offender be included in the "needless gun death" statistics? Just wondering...

Hat tip to Say Uncle.
03:54 AM on 02/20/2008
More lies (yawn) from the Brady Campaign, lifted from another forum.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...20/2167381.htm

Overall a good article, but damn does this show the extent that they're willing to lie about.


Quote:
But Peter Hamm, communication director for the Brady Campaign to Stop Gun Violence, is concerned that the group is the latest tool of the powerful gun lobby.

"We know very clearly that they were organised and they are funded by the gun industry, by the companies that are selling the guns," he said.

"This is not some spontaneous, grassroots organisation.

"There are more members than there were before Virginia Tech because the gun industry is spending more money to enlist more young people to help them spread the word, that if only we had more guns in America, we'd have less of a gun violence problem."

A few things - we don't even have enough money to legally incorporate, there's no way we're being 'funded' by anybody.

We are spontaneous - we were formed immediately following the tragedy at VT, and we are grassroots - I spend my free time away from classes and work on this, I'm not paid, and I'm certainly no professional.

The reason why there are more members now than before VT is simple - we didn't even exist before VT. Nobody's being recruited here - people are signing up on facebook.com and are searching for us, and voluntarily signing up.

This is, to be quite honest, a golden opportunity for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - it gives us the chance to discredit our biggest critic, internationally.
__________________
~Mike F.

Campus policies left students shooting back with camera phones. Life's worth more than pictures.
www.ConcealedCampus.com
http://web.mac.com/flitcrma/iWeb/Site/Home.html
So, the SCCC is funded by that enigmatic "gun industry". No proof, no documentation, nuttin'.
08:28 AM on 02/20/2008
The BC making up 'facts'. No surprise. We can provide definitive evidence for anti funding. Can the Brady Bunch do the same?
01:29 AM on 02/20/2008
VPC grassroots support:

Violence Policy Center’s tax returns included a section entitled
“Schedule A, Part IV-A: Support Schedule.” It includes a line item for membership fees.
For the years 2000 through 2004, the total membership fees received was $0.

That about says it all.

Via Arms and the Law.
07:04 AM on 02/20/2008
And here's the link.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/VPCandPeople.pdf

All of which begs three questions.

1) Just how does one keep a non-profit
organizaton afloat for four years, with zero
donations?

2) What happened to all that Joyce Foundation
money?

3) How many Ferraris does Josh Sugarman own?

I wonder if any of the anti-gun crowd here- present sent the VPC any money from 2000 to 2004.
07:34 AM on 02/20/2008
People have now started filing complaints with the Justice Department. I think Josh's lawyers are going to be busy for a while.
04:47 PM on 02/19/2008
Illinois factoids according to the 2006 IL UCR.

Illinois had a population of 12.8 million w/ a murder rate of 6.1/100K (780)

Chicago had 22.2% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 60% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 16.4/100K

Cook County had 41.4% of the population of Illinois yet accounted for 73.6% of murders w/ a per capita rate of 10.83/100K

The Cook County murders in raw number/per capita increased 4.4% and 4.9% respectively while arrest numbers and rates dropped over 18% from '05 to '06.

If Chicago were to fall into Lake Michigan, the Illinois murder rate would drop to 3.14

Were the rest of Cook County to follow suit, the rate would drop to 2.74

Think there's a reason the IL .gov's won't correlate their violent crime numbers w/ the FBI?
Whose example should we be following again?
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molonlabe
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12:26 PM on 02/19/2008
More proof that our failing and inadequate judicial system is a hell of alot more to blame than any implement.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5matias.6277765feb19,0,2152309.story

I guess this type of violence is ok though, right Kelli, since it wasn't committed with a gun.
10:51 AM on 02/18/2008
The anti-rights action is pretty hot on this Huffpo blog this morning.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/17/same-gun-dealer-sold-to-2_n_87050.html?refresh_comments=1
11:29 AM on 02/18/2008
Wow. It's amazing that those so ignorant about the basics of firearms and firearm laws have the audacity to insist they have the solutions to crime.
09:00 PM on 02/18/2008
This one is to precious to pass up. Did you know that NRA lobbyists control SCOTUS? It must be true, it was posted on HuffPo.
09:27 AM on 02/18/2008
Here is the actual IRS form people are using to complain about Sugarman's suspected tax-exemption violations.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

It's being taken quite seriously. The ATF is taking the matter seriously also, and is investigating.