"Suicide Shooters" - Going To "War" With Government

On Thursday, an individual who had "serious grievances with the city government" in the St. Louis suburb of Kirkwood, Missouri brought his gun to the police station and then a City Council meeting and killed five people - first two police officers, then two council members and the public works director - and wounded two others, including the mayor.

According to the killer's brother, the shooter "went to war tonight with the people, the government that was putting torment and strife into his life." News reports mentioned that the shooter "felt harassed" because police "cracked down on his parking of vehicles for his construction company outside his home...."

After two arrests for disorderly conduct at council meetings in 2006, and a subsequent conviction, the shooter continued to regularly attend and disrupt council meetings, making "inappropriate noises, heehawing like a donkey" and making "derogatory comments."

The shooter's brother said, "he has spoke [sic] on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied all rights to the access of protection and he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue."

We also learned yesterday about an aborted "large-scale shooting rampage" at the Super Bowl from an individual who "purchased an AR-15 assault rifle from a Phoenix-area gun store on Jan. 29" along with 200 rounds of ammunition, and "planned a massacre as a form of revenge against the Tempe, Ariz. City Council - because it overwhelmingly denied a liquor license for his restaurant."

In a letter mailed before he decided not to carry out the attack, the gun buyer said that "I cannot outvote, outspend, outtax or outincarcerate my enemies ... but for a brief moment I can outgun them."

These two stories raise a number of issues - the weakness of our gun laws nationally, as well as in most of the states; the easy accessibility of assault rifles and large stores of ammunition; the non-deterrent effect of police carrying guns and the disregard by those who are willing to be "suicide shooters" for their own lives; and the highly-charged level of controversy involved in much of local government activity.

This last point deserves some more attention. One of the first times I got involved in a controversy with the gun lobby was when, as Mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana, I suggested that individuals not be allowed to bring guns into our City-County building. (The County, which owned the building, had just banned guns from the County Courthouse and I argued there were just as many contentious issues being discussed and decided by the legislative and administrative parts of local government as by the judicial part.)

The gun lobby saw this suggestion as an attack on their "Second Amendment rights" and responded strongly. As someone who had received death threats and been called a "dictator" because of other government issues, I knew that there were a lot of people who I did not want to see carrying guns into city meetings and the offices of city employees.

These incidents all highlight the tensions involved when individuals argue that their "personal liberty" outweighs the rule of law and trumps community policy as decided by our governmental systems.

These tensions are part of the legal debate about the Second Amendment in the D.C. v. Heller case pending in the U.S. Supreme Court. In the brief filed for Heller on Monday, his lawyers argue in favor of the "individual use of Second-Amendment-protected arms to check despotism" and the importance of "retaining the ability to resist tyranny."

The killer in Kirkwood and the would-be shooter at the Super Bowl both thought they had to act to "check despotism" and "resist tyranny." But encouraging easier access to dangerous weapons by dangerous people puts us all at risk. We need to value the rule of law along with the claims of individual liberty or we all suffer.

(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog and the Huffington Post.)

Comments

[mike101]

Obama Panders To Gun Owners



http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5isOFwdbq0tsqatW6vJpkDRTI1gMgD8UQTAS80



Out of one side of his mouth, he supports an individual's right to own guns, while out of the other side, he supports the DC gun ban. Which is it, Barrak?

And this coming from a guy who wants to ban ALL semi-automatic weapons.

[mike101]

Even Hillary is out there telling stories about goin' a'huntin' and a'target shootin' with her Daddy.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8US5AK01&show_article=1

Funny how, as the White House looms ever closer, vehement anti-gunners like these, try to sound more like one of us every day.

Don't believe 'em.

[Junling]

It's scary to think how easy it is for a disturbed person to get guns and to kill others. With a knife, you can only kill 1-2 before you are stopped.
How can we prevent such tragedy from happening again? It's time for sensible gun laws.

[Thirdpower]

And what "sensible gun laws" do you propose that will actually effect "disturbed persons"?

[Mark0]

"With a knife, you can only kill 1-2 before you are stopped."

I beg to differ. Knives (unlocked and available in nearly every kitchen) do not run out of stabs, as a gun runs out of bullets. A knife could potentially be used, by a person with murderous intent, to kill as many as the murderer chooses.
This has been demonstrated numerous times throughout history.

Knives, however, tend not to evoke the same overreaction by those unfamiliar with them as guns do.

[mike101]

What makes you think it's easy for a disturbed person to get a gun? If a person has a record of mental illness, they are supposed to be disqualified.

We have over 2200 "sensible gun laws" on the books in this country already. How about enforcing those, for a change, instead of adding more laws for criminals to ignore.

[mike101]

Junling, let me be a little clearer. If a person has been judged mentally ill, they are not eligible to buy a firearm. Sometimes they slip through the cracks, but I don't think your going to be seeing more of that since VA Tech.

How about enforcing the current laws like we mean it? How about a mandatory, meaningful jail sentence for comitting a crime with a gun, say 10 years? No pleading to a lesser charge (which happens all the time), no parole, no time-off for good behavior, no work-release, no breaks. 10 years of turning big rocks into little rocks. If prison is too over-crowded for you, then stay out of prison.

[MSorgy]

Junling:

The Illinois shooter purchased his guns legally through an FFL after receiving his FOID from the licensing body in Illinois.

Also, consider this...if even one person in the audience that he attacked had been armed this whole thing might not have happened. At least, the audience would have had a fighting chance. As it is, with most schools being "gun-free zones" (look how well those signs have worked recently) people who wish to perpetrate such horrors on society know that they face little or no armed opposition in these areas. How many times have you seen an active shooter scenario going down in a police department (where someone could shoot back)?

Once again, "gun-free zones" do not work! If they had, the shooter would not have entered the campus.

Michael

[shedances]

I agree, Junling!

[mike101]

Helmke LIES to Exploit Illinois Campus Shooting! (in an NBC News story about gun control)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23188041#23188041

You don't need to watch the whole thing. Helmke is the first talking head. When the interviewer asks about gun controls already in place, Helmke says "Well, you have a background check SOMETIMES", emphasis on "sometimes". Not only his words, but the inflection in his voice make it sound like background checks happen only very occasionally.

Since you can't buy a gun from a federally licensed dealer without a background check, I guess Paul's next sham is going to be that people only buy guns from licensed dealers "sometimes".

[mike101]

I was so infuriated by this, that I sent an email to Brian Williams, explaining the NICS system, and that Helmke was pulling everyone's chain (again).

I also sent emails to Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough (MSNBC), regarding the Sugarman story, with links to info on the web.

I've had enough of these people and their constant lies.

[shedances]

Either mike101's SO scared that he's lost all reasoning ability, or ... he's on a mission, if you will, to create a nasty cesspool here of false assertions & distortions of others in gun control advocacy, gun violence prevention work. Pathetic.

K

[mike101]

BS. Watch the video.

I agree that there is a nasty cesspoll here of "false assertion and distotions", and just plain lies, and it was created by the anti-rights crowd.

You, Kelli, still refuse to address a single issue that's been raised. You have nothing but ad-hominem attacks.

Now, THAT'S pathetic.

[mike101]

The Brady Campaign has shamelessly wasted no time in exploiting the tragedy at Northern Ill. University. I just got another email (third in 3 days). This is a fine example of the BC using a tragedy to push their agenda for unrelated gun controls.

"It may be difficult to stop 'suicide shooters' like the Northern Illinois University killer, but there are steps we can take as a nation to make us all safer.

Congress' passing and the President's signing of the NICS improvement Amendments Act to strengthen the Brady background checks system was a positive first step. Now, we need to close the gun show loophole."

There's that gun show loophole again. Paul, this man did not get his guns from a gun show. Watch the news.

"there are steps we can take as a nation to make us all safer."

That's true. The first step might be taking off the rose colored glasses, and recognizing the indisputabe fact that "Gun Free Zones" draw mass murderers, like horse-manure draws flies.

The second would be to allow students with valid carry permits, to exercise their natural right of self protection, and carry on campus.

Spare us the "Wild West Shootout" nonsense. It's well known that "shootouts" just don't happen; not even in areas where there is a high concentration of law-abiding, armed citizens.

Like Texas!!!

[molonlabe]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/15/obama-avoids-gun-control-_n_86884.html

[mike101]

Obama isn't avoiding the issue because he feels it's inappropriate. None of the Dems are talking about gun control. They don't want a repeat of '94, and they don't want to blow the White House.

Although a couple of weeks ago, I caught Hillary saying something during a rally, about people having a right to own guns.

Hmmmm.

[Thirdpower]

And look, the Brady Campaign has released a press report calling for laws that wouldn;t have effected this at all:

o An effective ban on all semiautomatic assault weapons.

which the gunman didn't use.

o A complete ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.

which the gunman didn't use.

o Ensure that all gun sales at gun shows are subject to a background check.

which the gunman didn't go to.

and the really stupid one

o Establish a system whereby university officials are notified when a student purchases a gun from a gun dealer.

But they just want to pass laws to reduce violence even if the laws have nothing to do w/ it. Right. Pull the other one.

Walking in the blood of the dead.

[Thirdpower]

So Kelli, what do you have to say that the shooter was off his meds and bought his guns in IL w/ the Brady Endorsed waiting periods and FOID card?

[shedances]

These pro-gun posters make me sick! It's infuriating to read the guncrowd's single and very selfish objective in pushing their flawed, dangerous gun-agenda onto American citizens, our representatives, and our justices.

All the while, they are wasting valuable people's time ~ with such useless comments as we read here, regarding their superior rights & liberties as gunrights proponents ~ we continue to see ever more frightening instances of gun-violence occurring in our communities.

This time, the shootings occurred on yesterday (Valentine's Day) in my homestate of Illinois & on the campus of NIU, Dekalb, where six college students are confirmed dead. My next-door neighbor's son attends there, and he must be in a panic as he awaits his son's weekend journey home.

It seems to me ~ & to many other concerned Americans ~ that the task of addressing gun politics & gun violence issues rests with the rest of us and with hard-working advocacy groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ... and NOT with the self-serving guncrowd/gun lobby!

K

[mike101]

Oh, we're addressing the problem of violence. You're just not listening. Wake up, smell the pizza, and do away with so called "gun free zones". They are anything but gun free, to the wrong people. How many times does this have to happen?

You did, of course, follow those links to information that shows 31 states, and the majority of both houses of Congress filed in favor of Heller, didn't you?

[Thirdpower]

Committed in a Brady Endorsed "Gun Free Zone". The kind of society Kelli is willing to accept to take our guns away from us. Of course she neglects to address the primary cause: Mental Illness.

She'ld rather blame the inanimate object.

[molonlabe]

Once again, shedances around the fact that this happened in another "victim disarmament zone" which is supported by her idol, Paul and the BC.

[shedances]

A quick note: I'm not at all interested in your slams of me or anyone else associated with gun control advocacy. I suggest you get a life.

K

[mike101]

An interesting post I saw on another forum.

"I spoke with the BATFE this morning. The lady at the DC office looked it up, paused, and said, "let me transfer you to the National office."

I spoke with a receptionist there who was very nice. I told her what I knew and asked when the last inspection of Mr. Sugarmann's business was. Turns out it was 02/14/2002. I asked her why there hadn't been a more recent one, and she said that a) it WAS odd, and b) she didn't know.

I'm awaiting a call back from her superior, Sharon Brooks.

All voicemail boxes at the VPC are full, and they are not answering their phones."

It looks like the VPC is getting some attention, and they don't want to talk about it.
__________________

[DMeadows]

Mike, thanks for the updates.

[mike101]

My pleasure.

[mike101]

More from my Brady Bunch email. This is from an article in the Chicago Sun Times. There is a link in the email.

"Burns' commonsense position resonated. Voters "are tired of opening the papers, tired of turning on the TV and hearing on the news that another promising young man or woman has been killed by gun violence," he said. "It's all too real."

Indeed, the Burns win was "pretty sweet," said Brian Malte, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which pushed Burns and four other legislative candidates. The Brady bunch bombarded the campaigns with thousands of leaflets, mailers, e-mails and robo calls.

In the 26th, Jeffries came in 4th. "It sent a message that if you represent Chicago communities, you can't vote against gun control," Malte said.

The influential Brady Campaign is emerging as the Emily's List for anti-violence advocates. The gun control issue is on the move, and the politicians want in. "Folks were coming to us" for support, Malte added."

The politicians want in? Sure. That's why not one word is coming from the Dems on the subject. Not until after the Presidential election, anyway.

Hey BC! How about the fact that the majority in both houses of Congress filed in support of Heller? How about the fact that, so far, 31 states have filed in support of Heller? To what politicians do you refer?

What do you have to say about the "will of the people" now?

[mike101]

This was in yet another nonsensical email I just got from the BC.

"And now, The New York Times has called for the presidential candidates to “demand an end to unlicensed gun shows and demand that Congress show courage.”

Does anybody know what the hell an "unlicensed gun show" is?

[Thirdpower]

More victims of a Brady endorsed Criminal Empowerment Zone:

Gunman opens fire at N. Illinois U.

DEKALB, Ill. - Northern Illinois University says there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance. University officials warned students on the school Web site to get to a safe area and "take precautions until given the all clear."

[mike101]

Israeli High School Non-Gun-Free-Zone.
Students Unharmed.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/12596.htm

[molonlabe]

This is too good to pass up!

Hundreds of thousands of Americans—including an untold number of criminals—­illegitima­tely possess Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs) issued by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) according to a new 138-page study, More Gun Dealers Than Gas Stations, released today by the Violence Policy Center. The study was released at an 11:30 A.M. press conference on Friday, December 11 held at the offices of the Violence Policy Center, located at 1300 N Street, NW in Washington, D.C.

According to Josh Sugarmann, VPC executive director and one of the authors of the study, "The FFL is a public safety scandal created by the very agency charged with enforcing federal firearms laws. By giving a federal gun-dealing license to virtually anyone who can come up with $30 and isn't a convicted felon, ATF has put criminals in the business of selling guns."

http://www.vpc.org/press/9212mrgd.htm

[mike101]

So, an untold number of criminals have Federal Firearms Licenses, and they only paid thirty bucks? Funny, an FFL costs everyone else about $750. Where do these people get this stuff?

Oh, maybe he means people who lie to the ATF on their FFL application, or who fib to the IRS to maintain their tax exempt status. Maybe those criminals.

Okay.

[molonlabe]

I just want to know if Josh wrote that piece before or after he obtained HIS ffl?

[mike101]

And now, 31 states file in support of Heller! Of course, NJ ain't one of 'em.

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archives/2008/02/maps_of_the_sta_1.html

[DMeadows]

Add this to the recent brief supporting Heller signed by majorities in both chambers of Congress.

The will of the people is very apparent about the Second Amendment.

[DMeadows]

Of course, one may ask, "Well, how significant is the support for D.C.?"

Five states, three having no affirmation of the right to arms in their state constitutions (big surprise), filed in support of D.C.

The will of the people is clear. I just feel sorry for those people in the the five states. Their politicians obviously view the unwashed masses with so little respect that they are willing to cut out one of the ten amendments of the BOR. For them, which amendments are next?

[molonlabe]

Hum...look­s like the "will of the people(tm)" again that Paul Helmke is so adamant about respecting. Well, this really isn't the "will of the people(tm)" since, you know, it only applies when we're talking about pro-gun control.

[benEzra]

I wish you guys would drop the "ban assault weapons" obsession.

Rifles rank dead last in the FBI murder statistics, not only behind blunt objects, knives, and shotguns, but even behind SHOES AND BARE HANDS.

2005 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_20.html
Total murders...­..........­..........­.....14,86­0.....100.­00%
Handguns..­..........­..........­..........­..7,543...­...50.76%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....­1,954.....­.13.15%
Edged weapons...­..........­..........­......1,91­4......12.­88%
Firearms (type unknown)..­..........­.......1,5­98......10­.75%
Shotguns..­..........­..........­..........­....517...­....3.48%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.......­..........­....892...­....6.00%
Rifles....­..........­..........­..........­....442...­....2.97%

2006 data:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html
Total murders...­..........­..........­.....14,99­0.....100.­00%
Handguns..­..........­..........­..........­..7,795...­...52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....­2,158.....­.14.40%
Edged weapons...­..........­..........­......1,82­2......12.­15%
Firearms (type unknown)..­..........­.......1,4­65.......9­.77%
Shotguns..­..........­..........­..........­....481...­....3.21%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.......­..........­....833...­....5.56%
Rifles....­..........­..........­..........­....436...­....2.91%

And that's for all rifles combined, not just small-caliber rifles with modern styling. Don't take my word for it; run the numbers for yourself.

Just someone says small-caliber rifles with modern styling are of the debbil, doesn't make it so...

[benEzra]

Darn, formatting tables in this coding is a bit rough (monospaced font would help...).

2nd try...

As I said, rifles rank dead last in the FBI murder statistics, not only behind blunt objects, knives, and shotguns, but even behind SHOES AND BARE HANDS.

2005 data:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_20.html

Total murders...­..........­..........­.....14,86­0.....100.­00%

Handguns..­..........­..........­..........­..7,543...­...50.76%

Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....­1,954.....­.13.15%

Edged weapons...­..........­..........­......1,91­4......12.­88%

Firearms (type unknown)..­..........­.......1,5­98......10­.75%

Shotguns..­..........­..........­..........­....517...­....3.48%

Hands, fists, feet, etc.......­..........­....892...­....6.00%

Rifles....­..........­..........­..........­....442...­....2.97%

2006 data:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html

Total murders...­..........­..........­.....14,99­0.....100.­00%

Handguns..­..........­..........­..........­..7,795...­...52.00%

Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....­2,158.....­.14.40%

Edged weapons...­..........­..........­......1,82­2......12.­15%

Firearms (type unknown)..­..........­.......1,4­65.......9­.77%

Shotguns..­..........­..........­..........­....481...­....3.21%

Hands, fists, feet, etc.......­..........­....833...­....5.56%

Rifles....­..........­..........­..........­....436...­....2.91%

And that's for all rifles combined, not just small-caliber rifles with modern styling. Don't take my word for it; run the numbers for yourself.

If you're going after AR-15's and other popular small-caliber rifles, you are going squarely after nonviolent, lawful gun owners like my wife and I, NOT criminals. The AR-15 platform is used exceedingly rarely in violent crimes, but IS the most popular centerfire target rifle in the United States, and has been since the late 1990's. By far the top selling centerfire rifle ammunition used by civilian target shooters in the United States is .223 Remington.

Stop obsessing about the contents of our gun safes so much, and worry about your local criminal with the illegally obtained, illegally possessed, illegally carried .38 in his waistband instead. If you did, you might actually find some common ground.

[dragn1]

Hey nice formatting but just to annoy the gun haters I think the 7.62x39 is a close second for the popularity. I have an unissued SKS from I think 62 if I can remember the date and my son and I cleaned it for 6 hours of the cosmoline. We love to shoot it for the history. I know alot of friends that do the same thing.