No Longer Staring Into the Abyss of an Obama-Clinton Ticket

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Posted May 25, 2008 | 01:10 PM (EST)



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Obama's vice-presidential pick will not be the most important decision of his campaign. It pretty much never is, as illustrated by the complete futility of such past choices. For instance, it is hard to see what John Edwards, Joe Lieberman, Jack Kemp or Lloyd Bentsen brought to their respective tickets (three of the four weren't even able to secure their own home states.)

There is one choice Obama could make, though, that would have unwelcome consequences: Hillary Clinton, whose wildest, yet most truthful-sounding, rationale for staying in what is no longer a race is that she can step in if/when Barack Obama is murdered.

Not that, it seems, Obama has really been considering her as a vice-presidential candidate. But it can get confusing, especially with Bill Clinton in the role of the weakened bully leading one more charge on behalf of his wife.

Leaving aside the latest over-the-top Clinton moment, a disqualifier in itself, what in the world would Hillary bring to the ticket? Not deft management skills, judging from her 1990s health care debacle and her presidential campaign meltdown; not strong foreign policy credentials, with her vote in favor of the war in Iraq muddling what is otherwise a stark Democratic contrast with John McCain; not economic expertise, if her recent gas tax holiday proposal is any indication.

The Clinton campaign has remarkably successfully spun the myth of her strength among various demographic groups: white people, women, Latinos, lower-income people, older people and, of course, the now classic: hard-working Americans. In a couple of these cases, there is a shred of truth to the Clinton campaign's "analysis:" it is nearly certainly the case that she is dominant among older lower-income white women.

In any event, Clinton as a vice-presidential candidate would not have the ability to deliver any of these groups to the Democratic ticket, just like none of the other recent vice-presidential candidates have.

In early general election polls (yes, they are not that meaningful, but more telling than, say, Karl Rove's assessment, no matter what Clinton says), Obama is outperforming or matching John Kerry's general election performance in every state except for Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia. Yes, Clinton would help with Arkansas' six electoral votes. As for the other three, they have become irrelevant and would be lost in 2008 by any Democratic presidential candidate, including Hillary Clinton.

Conversely, Obama would risk being dragged down by Clinton in a whole swath of the Midwest (Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan) and, even more so, in several Western and Southern states, where he outperforms her by double-digits in match-ups. Florida remains the trickiest state for Obama, although, with six months to go, he has the opportunity to make up for Clinton's breathtakingly disingenuous charges of disenfranchisement.

Much was made of Obama's weakness in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Yet in both places he leads McCain, having already rebounded past where Kerry was in 2004. As of now, Clinton would do better than Obama in both states, according to recent polling. Knowing that at least three-quarters of her margin in the primaries there was race-based, do we really believe that those white voters who shunned Obama because he is black would vote for him just because Clinton, self-styled white working class hero, is on the ticket?

Obama was also declared uncompetitive among Latinos, based on some vaguely feudal idea that the Clintons owned the "Hispanic vote" (whatever that means), just like they owned the "African-American vote." The latest California polls show him leading McCain among Latinos by some 20 to 44 points.

The mainstream media's focus du jour, Jewish voters, hardly qualify as a swing group in any state that is competitive except for Florida, where Kerry's estimated 80% of that vote was not even close to securing him a win. Anyway, despite the amply covered anecdotal evidence of "hesitations" about Obama among Jews, he is only polling marginally lower than Kerry was in that group, and certainly not enough to jeopardize one single state.

Among Democratic white women over 50, Clinton appears to have built a strong core constituency as the campaign has progressed. But they now find themselves in the same place as many other demographic groups (from African-Americans to gay people): about to be taken for granted by the Democratic Party. Will white women really cross over and vote for McCain? He is just about as far as he can be from where most Democratic women want him to be, from the Iraq war to health care to abortion rights. This, of course, is also the man who publicly calls his wife a c***. It is hard to see Clinton's women supporters moving to McCain in droves.

The only benefit that would come from Clinton as a VP pick is perhaps the advantage for Obama of keeping his enemies closer (and that, ultimately, is what she has positioned herself to be). But one number continues to resonate more than any other: 60% of Americans do not trust Hillary Clinton; why would Obama even risk being tarred with the same brush? It is one thing to trade charges of naivete and recklessness with McCain; it is another to saddle himself with a VP considered an untrustworthy habitual liar by a strong majority of Americans.

Clinton's increasingly desperate quest for something, anything, to show for her decades of campaigning has taken on a vaguely insane turn, for which we should be grateful, even as it makes us queasy. Without it, the campaign would have ended months ago and those of us who weren't paying attention would not have had the full benefit of seeing week after week what a Clinton will do for power. And we may well have been staring into the abyss of an Obama-Clinton ticket, wondering why we had even bothered to get involved.

 
 

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- desertbreeze See Profile I'm a Fan of desertbreeze permalink

Great piece! Well written and informative. As an older white woman, I can attest that not all of us are deluded by Clinton's lies. I have had little difficulty convincing my 94 year old mother and 89 year old mother in law to switch their support to Senator Obama. In fact, both started as Hillary supporters but by the time their respective primaries rolled around and they had a chance to see how vicious she is they both voted for Obama. Hillary is her own worst enemy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 05/27/2008
- mairs See Profile I'm a Fan of mairs permalink

He summarized everything I've been thinking. I am mystified as to why people still hang onto her as their greatest hope, defending the indefensible. I simply have to remember that the world is made up of all sorts of people, some of whom find her behavior admirable, for whatever reason. Some mistake brittle intolerance and egomania as "toughness". So be it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 AM on 05/27/2008
- mairs See Profile I'm a Fan of mairs permalink

He summarized everything I've been thinking. I am mystified as to why people still hang onto her as their greatest hope, defending the indefensible. I simply have to remember that the world is made up of all sorts of people, some of whom find her behavior admirable, for whatever reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 05/27/2008
- PAposter See Profile I'm a Fan of PAposter permalink

That piece was brilliant! Thank you Mr. Paul Jenkins.

What a way to start my day.

Obama/Americans '08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 AM on 05/27/2008
- Damon See Profile I'm a Fan of Damon permalink

Hillary supporters telling here that people won't vote for Barack are really desperate, so desperate that they wanna persuade themeselves that no one will vote for him, so Hillarious...
Let me make it clear here: the real democrats, the core of democrats will vote for him, some of you Hillary supporters will vote for him, even some of you, the more desperate and radical of Hillary supporters will vote for him. A lot of independents will vote for him, a lot of republicans (the desperate Bush-McSame republicans, those who were against the war, and some others) will vote for him.

Most importantly, for several weeks his campaign has launched an incredible Registration "Vote for Change" all across the country, and especially in critical states, so delusional and desperate Hillary supporters, you'll be surprise to see what's gonna happen this November, with you on our side or without you, Barack will win, McSame has no chance, we're gonna change this country, you can vote for McBush if you want, too bad for you...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 AM on 05/27/2008
- jomira See Profile I'm a Fan of jomira permalink

I think your statement is arrogant. Hillary supporters don't have to vote for Obama. There are alot of us who have problems with him. I don't see this change. I just see another politican who will say anything or do anything for a vote, weak senate voting record and another sexist who calls a professional woman "sweetie." You will be surprise to find that none of us are that desperate to have to vote for Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 05/27/2008
- Liberoservative See Profile I'm a Fan of Liberoservative permalink

and I think that you are disingenuous when you vote for candidate and not for party.. they both have the good of America in their campaigns... just one got it over better than the other.... to not vote party is the true UNDEMOCRATIC thing to do..... if you want to get rid of corporate rule, military rule, greed rule over the country... then you will vote Democratic this year... if you want to pay 10 dollar a gallon for your gas in a couple of years.. then vote Republican.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 PM on 05/28/2008
- PAposter See Profile I'm a Fan of PAposter permalink

I agree, I volunteered for him in the primary, I was so disappointed, although he didn't expect to win, I guess not with all the race baiting and "street money" from the Clintons.

I can't wait to be assigned an area to canvass for the GE. We will win, there's a ton of volunteers here and his campaign is so organized, Betsy Myers, who served as a Clinton White House adviser on women's issues is the Chief Operating Officer, she's amazing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 05/27/2008
- researcher See Profile I'm a Fan of researcher permalink

well we will find out if obama is a fool and should not be president. if he selects hill then he is a fool and only cares about winning an election. he does not appear to be a fool.

if she is on the ticket i will vote for nader or the lib guy. never hillary never.

besides it is not so bad if mc cain wins we can have another war so he can earn the respect of his grandfather and we can have all the oil in iran.

oil in the future will be like black gold and mc cain smells gold. i mean oil.

we americans deserve that oil after all we are americans and besides if we bomb iran israel will not have to bomb them. they are our buddies and we are a superpower so bombs away.

god bless america truly a christian nation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:44 AM on 05/27/2008
- JudgeCrater See Profile I'm a Fan of JudgeCrater permalink

God bless the First Amendment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 05/27/2008
- pilgrim7 See Profile I'm a Fan of pilgrim7 permalink

I understand how you feel. It would be a big letdown for those of us who sincerely believe Obama represents change only to see his putting both Clintons back in the White House in the event of his assassination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 05/27/2008
- AxelDC See Profile I'm a Fan of AxelDC permalink

Does Obama want to wake up every day for the next 8 years and worry about having to answer for every stupid thing that Bill or Hillary have said that day?

She has been a nightmare, saying the most outlandish things that she cannot possibly believe. It's bad enough to be on the receiving end of her ballistics. As soon as he adds her to the ticket, he becomes responsible for everything those two loose cannons say and do.

Obama would be a fool to offer her the VP slot, and Friday she proved exactly why he cannot afford to have her on his team.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:03 PM on 05/26/2008
- elevens See Profile I'm a Fan of elevens permalink

Excellent piece of writing Mr. Jenkins.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:50 PM on 05/26/2008
- newzzzjunkie See Profile I'm a Fan of newzzzjunkie permalink

President Obama wants change in Washington. There's nothing new about Hillary and her politics, except that she is dirtier than most. I pray that Obama WILL NOT put her on the ticket. Just say NO Barack...no please, please, pretty please NO Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 05/26/2008
- PAposter See Profile I'm a Fan of PAposter permalink

I strongly believe that if Obama puts Hillary on the ticket he will lose more votes than he will gain. I also seriously doubt that he will jeopardize his base voters. There will be no Hillary on the Ticket, and look for her to lose her re-election in New York, coming up in 2012, if she's not forced to resign before then.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:11 AM on 05/27/2008
- smayhew See Profile I'm a Fan of smayhew permalink

'Sweeties' - we don't want Clinton to be your little guy's running mate - since in doing so it will be the only way that he could win and we don't want him to win. A real writer put it best today:
Paul Krugman in today"s New York Times in an op-ed entitled "Divided We Stand" - underscores the damage the Obama campaign has done, not only to Clinton, but to the party itself and the chance of a Democratic presidency, he says of the Clinton bashing:
"Why does all this matter? Not for the nomination: Mr. Obama will be the Democratic nominee. But he has a problem: many grass-roots Clinton supporters feel that she has received unfair, even grotesque treatment. And the lingering bitterness from the primary campaign could cost Mr. Obama the White House."
Like many people who are not drunk with 'Hope', I am fascinated by the manic Obama supporters who 'protest too much'. Scare us with the Supreme Court and we give you Obama's confirmation vote for Roberts! Scare us with Roe v Wade and we give you Barack courting the anti-choice crowd.
I"m working for the people who actually effect the law - my congress people. I may not vote for McCain, but I am deeply convinced that Obama is a dangerous choice for the presidency and for women in general and and and several million others will never vote for him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 05/26/2008
- JudgeCrater See Profile I'm a Fan of JudgeCrater permalink

Yeah, like Krugman has been the unbiased voice of reason during this campaign. More like the paranoid "he's a scary black Muslim" voice given his own column at the NYT to spin his personal fears into convoluted rationalizations. Nothing to see here, folks, move along, move along.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:33 AM on 05/27/2008
- teapartydude See Profile I'm a Fan of teapartydude permalink

"I am deeply convinced that Obama is a dangerous choice for the presidency and for women in general and and and several million others will never vote for him"


Must be the black thing, huh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 05/27/2008
- PAposter See Profile I'm a Fan of PAposter permalink

Krugman? heh heh heh , surely you jest. heh heh heh!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 AM on 05/27/2008
- lizr See Profile I'm a Fan of lizr permalink

Krugman, who I used to admire greatly, has, like the Clintons, squandered his reputation by defending this campaign in its most indefensible moments. and in doing so has proven to be just another media hack.

I do not say this happily.

In fact it is very sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 05/26/2008
- Daisy1111 See Profile I'm a Fan of Daisy1111 permalink

smayhew.

Good points. Especially on the Roe v Wade argument.

I agree -- as a Hillary supporter I hope she doesn't take the VP spot.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 05/26/2008
- uclafan See Profile I'm a Fan of uclafan permalink

I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up on the ticket. Dianne Feinstein may push the issue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:23 PM on 05/26/2008
- sk7326 See Profile I'm a Fan of sk7326 permalink

What is more likely I think is that he gives Hillary extra consideration in vetting the choice. That is, the veep will be DLC friendly. Maybe not a full fledged Blue Dog (one would hope not), but one of her supporters. Not sure what sort of short list you would want to make out of Hillary people (Rendell, Strickland, etc), but try to hav at it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 05/26/2008
- funnyguy See Profile I'm a Fan of funnyguy permalink

Wes Clark meets this prescription

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 05/26/2008
- deb123 See Profile I'm a Fan of deb123 permalink

Every cloud has a silver lining ... and I agree with your analysis 100 percent. I only hope the powers-that-be agree, as well. I understand HC's supporters loyalty -- after all, I feel the same way about Obama. I just hope, when all the dust settles, they will open their minds and hearts to accept Obama as the best choice over the Repubs to move our country in the direction it needs to go. We can't afford to cut off our noses to spite our faces on this one. There's just too much at stake.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 PM on 05/26/2008
- funnyguy See Profile I'm a Fan of funnyguy permalink

Don't be so sure the great conciliator won't want to conciliate with the irreconciliable

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 05/26/2008
- inspectormerlot See Profile I'm a Fan of inspectormerlot permalink

Yes he absolutely will. THe question is how? If not VEEP, at least a very senior cabinet position.
Check out the report on Meet the Press of Obama's response to this:

MR. RUSSERT: Doris, in Boca Raton on Thursday, Barack Obama was asked about vice president, specifically about Hillary Clinton, and here's his answer, which talks about you
(videoclip)
Unidentified man: would you be willing to consider everybody who is a possible help to you as a running mate, even if his or her spouse is an occasional pain in the butt?
(crowd laughs " so does Obama)
SEN. OBAMA: I, I--well, look. Well, look, look, look. The--we've got a little more work to do. So I don't want to jump the gun. I will tell you, though, that my goal is to have the best possible government. And that means me winning. And so I am very practical-minded. I'm a practical-minded guy. And, you know, one of my, one of my heroes is Abraham Lincoln. And a while back there was a wonderful book written by Doris Kearns Goodwin called "Team of Rivals," in which she talked about how Lincoln basically pulled in all the people who had been running against him into his Cabinet because whatever, you know, personal feelings there were, the issue was how can we get this country through this time of crisis? And I think that has to be the approach that one takes

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 05/26/2008
- PennP See Profile I'm a Fan of PennP permalink

Biden, Dodd, Edwards, Richardson.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 PM on 05/26/2008
- realityczech4u See Profile I'm a Fan of realityczech4u permalink

As I see it, if Obama were to put her on his ticket, he could kiss it goodbye. What needs to be taken into account is the vast number of voters who are not only for Obama but at the same time are vehemently against Hillary and how deeply their contempt for her runs. I personally still have questions about Obama's vision for America but even if I decide not to vote for him in the GE, I will always revere him for vanquishing Hillary for us. Words cannot express the debt of gratitude we owe him.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:08 PM on 05/26/2008
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