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Man Up! Skills For Dealing With 3 Sticky Religious Situations

Posted: 11/01/11 06:28 PM ET

Editor's note: The following is excerpted from "Man Up! 367 Classic Skills for the Modern Guy" by Paul O'Donnell (Artisan Books). Copyright 2011.

57. How do I attend an unfamiliar religious ceremony?

Dress should be formal, with shoes shined and a close shave--the pal who invited you is going to be seeing you through the eyes of the most aged relative on the scene. Also wear a decent pair of socks, since in places like Hindu temples, shoes are removed at the door. As long as you're not directly involved in any of the proceedings, visiting a friend's house of worship usually demands more patience than anything else. Your job is to bear it with good humor mixed with the appropriate dose of solemnity. Be open, and you may even enjoy it.

58. What gift should I give for a religious ceremony I'm unfamiliar with?

If you're not sure what kind of religious paraphernalia goes with the rite in question, something age-appropriate will do: a silver rattle, baby spoon, or a baby dining set for a baby's baptism; for a coming-of-age ceremony, like a bar mitzvah or a confirmation, a check or cash in an envelope for the young person is almost always appropriate.

60. How do I stop a friend from trying to sell me his newfound religion?

Your friend believes that he has just discovered something so wonderful that he wants you to have it, too. In his mind, he's trying to give you a great gift--the gift of his religion. The difficult part is that you don't really want what he has. It doesn't fit you, you don't like the design or designer, or you already have one and you prefer yours. The only way to stop your friend is to let him know that while it may be perfect for him, you don't want it for you. If he really won't leave you alone after you have been direct, stop hanging out until your pal calms down a bit, as most converts eventually do.

 
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
methodman
08:48 PM on 11/02/2011
The reason why arguing with dyed in the wool religious people is a waste of time is because they aren't willing to read anything that has to be torn apart intellectually. They have taken the Norquist Badge of Non-Reading. They don't understand my lesson plans with inspirational books and they are unwilling to do this even with their own inspirations. There is no conversation. I am where I am fresh at 50. They have conversations I was having with them 20 years ago at 50. I don't talk to my family much. I was raptured. They got left behind. Don't let others belittle your personal effort because you enjoy life more as you get older and just are at a clever peace and enjoy being with yourself more that's OK. The other aspect is that Church shouts one message but the delivery of speech used by it's followers puts You at the center of everything. In a real progressive conversation. Sometimes you is at a beginning or a composite. Sometimes it is at an end in several positions changing states. However most of the time I haven't like to stick it in the center. So religious people don't follow my projects and imagination. The whole purpose of religion is to build the imagination and reveal itself on circuits or performance or science poetry which does not follow Evangelical forms at all.
06:37 PM on 11/02/2011
I've never had a problem attending church, though I'm a technical atheist. But when my little sister got saved, that was hard. It was impossible to have a conversation with her without Jesus being there too. You certainly couldn't mention any problem that you might have at the moment, because Jesus would surely fix it for you if you let him. And gosh knows she wasn't going to just listen and just be supportive. She has mellowed a lot, and we now have nice conversations again, but it took about ten years. She still wants to fix everything.
09:30 PM on 11/02/2011
Tell her she has an imaginary friend and that you'd like to have a conversation with her without the imaginary friend in the room.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
jbarelli
I don't belong to an organized political party.
12:47 PM on 11/04/2011
Wow. He should insult and alienate the sister that he wants to have a nice conversation with. That will certainly improve their relationship, and show his sister just how much he values her.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UnderTheHedgeWeGo
Show me some evidence.
02:13 PM on 11/02/2011
How do I stop a friend from trying to sell me his newfound religion?

I say "I'm an atheist. If you can tell me WHY you believe as you do, not WHAT you believe, but WHY you believe it, I'll listen for a while. First you have to convince me there is a reason I should listen". It sets them back. Generally, I get a look that conveys "What do you mean 'Why?". It's amazing how may people dedicate their lives to a particular belief with no real reason WHY they do so.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Romans 9 16
06:42 PM on 11/02/2011
If there is a creation then there must be a Creator. The WHY can be answered by asking if you have any responsibility or owe anything to said Creator. No point in asking WHY if you reject the idea that everything was created.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UnderTheHedgeWeGo
Show me some evidence.
08:57 PM on 11/02/2011
Physics and chemistry is all it takes. If there is a Creator I have no idea what, or who, "he" is and even less of an idea of what he would want (if anything) from me and I'm certainly not going to follow the lead of a 2,000 year old book written by preliterate goat herders for the answers.

I have no reason to believe everything was intentionally created. Crystals (and many other things) self assemble. I see no evidence of a Creator and believe there is none.
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josefz
In memory of Josef Zawinul
12:46 AM on 11/03/2011
Please prove to me that there was creation. You can't get something from nothing.
09:39 PM on 11/02/2011
Very real observation. Why is very personal. They felt lost and now they feel found. The challenge is to get them to admit that. Usually only confessed to close friends and familily if at all. Others just get the same recruitment rhetoric that makes them feel better about their decision.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
UnderTheHedgeWeGo
Show me some evidence.
12:54 AM on 11/03/2011
"They felt lost and now they feel found."

Even then, that's why they WANT to believe it. I understand why people want to believe in a benevolent and caring being who watches over them and the possibility of life everlasting. Who wouldn't want to believe that? I certainly would. Is it so simple that people believe something only because it is pleasant if it is true? Is all of this nothing more than Santa Claus for adults with the presents being security and a sense of purpose?
01:02 PM on 11/02/2011
As Thomas Jefferson so wisely said, religion is a matter which lies solely between each person and God, and we owe account to none other for our faith or worship.

Jefferson and most other Founding Fathers were Deists and some were Freemasons, and they used generic terms like "Creator" and "Divine Providence" because while they recognized Deity and Divinity, they did not favor any particular religion. They recognized the universal truths at the core and foundation of all religions.

When the Real American Dream is finally fulfilled, and the religious prophecies of the world are fulfilled, we will recognize that Divine Providence is the manifestation of divine guidance, care and management of human affairs, manifested through the people themselves, having finally learned that God is the Great Spirit-Parent of all, by whatever name.

Listen to the words at http://www.soundclick.com/ttap
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
guitargeorge1964
Independent!!!
12:24 PM on 11/02/2011
I don't put that much thought in to it. When attending a Catholic funeral I kneel when they call for people to kneel, I stand when everyone stands, I stay quiet when everyone else is chanting, when they call for people to pray I look at the floor. Don't try to stand out because it's a funeral and the important thing is to be respectful to the family. I also sing John Fogerty songs in my head.
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Bones Rhodes
08:00 PM on 11/02/2011
Sorry: just can't see myself at someone's funeral singing " Put me in, coach--" unless I could sing out loud.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OtayPanky
You're welcome
12:22 PM on 11/02/2011
Whenever someone (whether friend or stranger) starts proselytizing, I assume that what they really want is to have sex with me.
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busterggi
I'm a Sally Randian
12:50 PM on 11/02/2011
I don't. The "oh, god" should come during sex, not before it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OtayPanky
You're welcome
12:50 PM on 11/03/2011
That's YOUR religion.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
libwingoflibwing
Leftist Christian, Non-Violent Revolutionary
11:29 AM on 11/02/2011
Here's my advice on a friend who is evangelizing you. I give it having been on both sides, being a zealous born again in my youth.

You're friend is excited. He or she feels a need to share his or her faith. All you have to do is LISTEN. Don't take anything personally; this is all about your friend not you. If you can, use questions and stuff to turn this into your friend talking about himself or herself instead of you or instead of "the way reality is." For example if your friend is talking about your sins needing to be forgiven just ask, "Oh, is that what you felt? What did you experience?" Now your friend will talk about his or her life instead of telling you what you must do.

If you think of this as getting to know your friend better rather than putting up with an evangelist, it will not be torture.

If this doesn't work, either your friend is obnoxious already or now is, then try the advice in the article.
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09:28 AM on 11/02/2011
57. Bring a good book, a small good book. Or entertain yourself by reading their dogma. Stifle the urge to laugh.
58. Ask. Duh.
59. He's being honest with you. Be honest with him. If he can't share your honesty, he wasn't your friend to begin with.
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JohnFromCensornati
The End is near
06:42 AM on 11/02/2011
"Dress should be formal, with shoes shined and a close shave--the pal who invited you is going to be seeing you through the eyes of the most aged relative on the scene."

What? Petty judgmental attitudes about superficial stuff? Must be xianity. Muslims and jews don't seem to have an issue with beards.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
libwingoflibwing
Leftist Christian, Non-Violent Revolutionary
11:13 AM on 11/02/2011
This stood out to me. I think it is an East Coast thing. I've ran into this before, this idea that everyone is supposed to dress fancy.

If you're not a Christian and my grandson was being baptized and I invited you to our Presbyterian service you could dress in jeans, a tee shirt and tennis shoes. Our pastor often has three days growth of beard like he's just starting a beard, but then the next week he'll be clean shaven and then the next week another new beard. So don't worry about shaving.

I've noticed the same attitudes on attire when I attended my son's good friend's Bar Mitzvah at the Jewish Temple.

The advice on this one was STUPID. Here's good advice: Ask the person who invited you how you should dress. Isn't that simple? ::rolls eyes::
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LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
12:16 PM on 11/02/2011
It may be so, about the East Coast thing, ...possibly including a different idea of what's 'fancy.' Does seem most of the Christians do the Sunday Best thing a lot, though, even as a Pagan I tend to feel pretty under-dressed in a lot of the country, in order to not be standing out too much. :)

Asking is probably a better general policy, (Pagan events, I'd generally say, 'Ah, maybe go a wee bit festive.' The whole idea of etiquette and such is really so that everyone feels comfortable and all. :) )
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JohnFromCensornati
The End is near
12:33 PM on 11/02/2011
My parents were Presbyterians and that attitude was the prevailing one. It was in PA, but it was a long time ago, so maybe PCUSA has changed.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
owlafaye
Love, laugh, be happy and free, God is dead
11:21 AM on 11/02/2011
He is simply saying, "Make a good presentation of yourself" whatever the circumstance.

I believe this author has a lot that can help those who struggle through life.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bones Rhodes
08:08 PM on 11/02/2011
Perhaps he does: and, at 3 items per from a book of 367, he also has a source for 121 more articles and some desert.
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Redhunteur
If I damn yer POV will u turn the other cheek?
04:14 AM on 11/02/2011
If they DO sell you and you're not happy, remember to save your reciept and return it or simply re-gift it.
11:22 PM on 11/01/2011
I tell the truth, as politely and honestly as someone can without compromising it. Ironically, that's the kind of thing that you will get your post deleted on this website.
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owlafaye
Love, laugh, be happy and free, God is dead
11:23 AM on 11/02/2011
Try again Varys...it isn't that bad here. Sometimes the "abusive post" submissions force them to remove your comment...a matter of legal complications.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
owlafaye
Love, laugh, be happy and free, God is dead
11:44 PM on 11/08/2011
In fact, they removed my naked response to Jehovah Witnesses post...JW's apparently clicked on "Flag As Abusive" enough times for the moderators to remove it? or did I just miss it?
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AntithiChrist
Rhymes with Grist
10:22 PM on 11/01/2011
How to attend an unfamiliar religious ceremony? Well, if you must go, then like any tourist or spiritual dilettante, take lots of photos! A video camera would be even better! You'll be the envy of your uninvited friends. You may have something really bizarre worth showing. On youtube. And think of the unbelievers you'll be able to amaze with the miracle faith healing, the shouts, groans, and grunts of religious passion, the secret handshakes, the clingy blouse baptismal rituals...I could go on, but I think you see the value...
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09:29 AM on 11/02/2011
You had me at clingy blouse.....;-)
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busterggi
I'm a Sally Randian
12:52 PM on 11/02/2011
Yeah, even I might attend services if those were a sure thing.
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owlafaye
Love, laugh, be happy and free, God is dead
11:24 AM on 11/02/2011
And don't forget to take your dog with you. An accordion isn't a bad idea either.
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AntithiChrist
Rhymes with Grist
10:17 PM on 11/01/2011
Gifts? Well I guess something they think the person might like. I agree that giving cash is always a good gift. I've never seen a religious person offended by a shot of that. That way the religious person or the secretly non-religious person can buy anything they want with it.
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Bones Rhodes
08:18 PM on 11/02/2011
Agreed; cash is always a good gift. Some people maintain it is gift with no feeling or thought behind it: I disagree - something you don't want, like, or need is a gift with no feeling or thought. If you give someone cash, and they buy something that is the wrong color, size, shape, or that they don't want; they were just too stupid to get anything to start with.
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AntithiChrist
Rhymes with Grist
10:14 PM on 11/01/2011
If someone tries to get you go over to your religion? The Judea-Christian god offers his instructions in Deuteronomy 13:6 - 13:10 - Pretty strong stuff, what with all the gangland style executions and all.

If you are currently a member of Islam, I don't have a Koranic section for you, but from what I've heard, I think Allah's peaceful head comes down pretty hard on apostasy for those who go in for the more literal readings. So be careful you currently faithful Allah Dudes and Dudettes.

Any Moslems out there who can quote the correct section from that particular divine Life Instruction Manual? And be truthful! No cherry-picking!
11:36 PM on 11/01/2011
Alas, the divine manual does not contain any instructions on apostasy ... LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
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AntithiChrist
Rhymes with Grist
12:07 AM on 11/02/2011
Thank you Savierra. I just did a quick Google search for "Islamic religious tolerance," and boy! The results were very unsettling, to say the least.

What about Qur'an (2:191), Qur'an (4:89), Qur'an (5:51), Qur'an (9:5), Qur'an (9:29), Qur'an (9:11-12), Qur'an (9:123), etc, etc. ? (this is a short list)
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Jelle NL
Unity in Diversity
06:04 AM on 11/02/2011
Q 109:6
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themightyabealrd
screw the real world-I'm an artist!
09:24 PM on 11/01/2011
When somebody says the will pray for me, I reply, "Great-and I'll do some independent thinking for you! That way, we can each supply the other with something our respective lifestyles lack." It either confuses the hell our of them or ends their proselytizing...both desirable goals.