I'm Just Sayin': The Idiotic "Biden Undercuts Change" Argument
The most idiotic punditbabble we've heard in the wake of Barack Obama's choice of Joe Biden -- advanced by the AP's Ron Fournier, NBC's David Gregory and others as if they were channeling John McCain's talking points -- is the notion that Biden undercuts Obama's message that it's time for a change.
Exhibit A, in this silly argument, is Biden's 35 years in the United States Senate. The simplistic formulation argues that because Biden is an old hand in Washington, he undermines Obama as a standard-bearer for change.
First of all, consider the absurdity of the suggestion that a brilliant, young, black president wouldn't represent an historic, transforming leap forward in American politics. On its face, this is nothing more than Rovian hyperspin.
Barack Obama personifies change -- no matter who his running-mate is.
But there's a further point (and thanks to Newsweek's Howard Fineman for picking up on it): That what Biden represents is a guy - perhaps uniquely qualified - to implement the change that Obama represents.
With his knowledge of the ways of Washington, his vast experience in the Senate, his insider savvy, Biden brings to the Democratic ticket a glimmer of hope that all the things Obama wants to accomplish - from foreign affairs and health care to economic and tax policy - might actually get done in the next administration.
McCain's people desperately did not want Obama to pick Biden for precisely this reason, along with the fact that Biden actually knows McCain, he's an Irish Catholic from Scranton, he's a family man who can rub elbows in union halls and he's a terrific debater and attack surrogate.
Without someone like Biden on the ticket - with a governor perhaps or a less effective senator - Obama risked looking like a dreamer, not a doer. But with Biden at his side, the Democratic ticket suddenly can offer itself as a pragmatic, can-do engine for change.
Biden doesn't detract from the message of change: he drives it home.
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Seems most people are conveniently forgetting that the American people rejected biden as President.
So now he's GREEEEEEEE
Did they reject Biden or did they select Obama?
I believe voters who chose Obama for his ideals, ideas, desire for change, and his prescient judgement, will trust Obama's selection as vice president.
Besides, we will hear and read their justifications real soon.
Dufus...th
Keep thinking like you are...I suspect you support McCain, same impeccable logic/reasoning. HA!
Doesn't negate the argument made here. He's a can-do guy in the senate who will bring those same talents to an Obama administration.
The American people rejected Bush 41 for president, but he became VP under Reagan, then president. So what is your point exactly?
Voters in Democratic Party primaries rejected Biden; the American people were never given the opportunity to accept or to reject Biden as president.
I think that linking Barack Obama's race to the kind of change he represents trivializes him somewhat. His race, and the fact that we are hyper conscious of it says more about our political immaturity as a nation than it does about Barack's political importance.
I think Barack knows that change won't be easy. For some reason, he chose to brand himself as a new style politician, opening himself up to charges of naivete. But it always seemed to me that the kind of change that he represented was in the best old tradition of Eugene McCarthy, and Hubert Humphrey, heroic Senators who worked literally for decades to slowly move liberal politics forward. Can you imagine what a Hubert Humphrey presidency would have been like, rather than a Richard Nixon presidency. I think that Barack Obama has some of that spirit.
Senator Obama knows change won't be easy...he didn't brand himself as a new style politician, he simply said he wanted to change how Washington doesn't work the people. I think he chose to be a smart politician which is something we all want. He hasn't represented himself as anyone or anything other than what he said....re
I disagree on the branding thing. Barack spent a lot of time talking about old and new politics. But Obama didn't leap onto the political scene fully formed out of a historical void. Rather, he developed his politics with an awareness of history. He's a constitutional law professor after all. Obama came to Washington as a reformer, with a background and understanding of urban politics. Partnering with legislators from across the political spectrum, he brought us the most sweeping ethics reform in a generation, and budget transparency, and accountability. And Obama clearly takes a long view on political change.
Is my assessment of analogies between McCarthy, Humphrey, and Obama superficial? Perhaps. I'm not old enough to remember McCarthy or Humphrey first hand. If you are, I'll defer to you. But consider these parallels. Like Humphrey, who fought racism and antisemitism in Minneapolis, Obama has his roots in urban politics. Like McCarthy, he is an academic and an eloquent opponent of a misbegotten war who wants to change the system. Like those two champions of civil rights, he is a reformer working for incremental change and has youth appeal. So, while Barack is obviously his own man and not Eugene McCarthy, he does have a connection to the past, and is part of a tradition of politics that has done great things for America. History is an asset for Obama.
So, you really think that people get to choose to live as white or black?
Agreed.
ditto .. nice post.
Exactly... I've been hearing the same inane talking points all weekend. And then some complain about coverage of O. What good is the coverage, if you are hearing the Republican talking points perpetually?
the hypocrisy in those talking points that irritated me to no end is that fact almost in the same breath some of these very same pundits would go on to suggest that he must take HRC in order to seal the deal on the presidency. would not she be just as much a hinderance to the whole idea of change moreso than Biden? she and her husband are a far more tangible reminder of past politics.
You are right ! Biden has the chops and political savvy in the Senate to affect change. This fact has been displayed with all of the bills he has pushed through Congress. Joe Biden's down to earth attitude and way of reaching average people will also help Obama. Joe Biden has " FINESS" when he is on the attack. this is something Obama lacks. As an Obama supporter I'm really happy with this choice.
The biggest reason to choose Biden is that he can step in and be president in a moment's notice if he had to. No, he's not a great instrument of change, but he will be a great tool (so to speak) for the president to use when getting things done. He will be a great campaigner, he will help shore up some of the electorate and all that business, but again, his importance lies in his ability to do the job should he have to. Don't be misled, though, being able to do the job and being the right man for the job right now are not the same thing. A president Biden would be a very different animal than a president Obama.
Biden's foreign policy expertise consist of promoting war and intervention and hobnobbing with tinpot autocrats like Saakaashvili. As long as that fact remains obscure to war-weary American voters, the Obama-Biden ticket is secure on the foreign policy front. What Biden brings to Obama that is of value is giving the presidential candidate permission to go much farther than he has to date in tearing the mask off the "John McCain as hero" narrative. Biden has shown Obama that diving from the high board not only is exhilirating, it draws applause, and one need not fear it.
"Biden doesn't detract from the message of change: he drives it home." There in lies the problem for McCain. I love it! This is going to be an entertaining election.
I like Biden, but how many times has he run for President? Here we have a team of a radical inexperienced liberal and a career senator who can't make it out of the primaries. Dream Team!
Repeating the "radical inexperienced liberal" canard will not make it so. People are catching on to how empty this line is.
To stick Obama with the label of radical liberal makes me laugh. You have no idea what you're talking about, do you!
Yep all the things obama wants to accomplish, like tax Americans more and more to help other nations.
scooperass - please give me a quote from the Obama tax plan that says he's going to tax 97% of Americans more. And show how when CNN did an analysis of both plans Obama's saves 97% of American's more than McCain's
Not to mention helping our own nation. But hey, why would you start getting interested in facts when it's so much easier to recite Rovian talking points like the lemming that you are?
The cliff is due south. Get a running start.
rotflmao @ 'Get a running start'
The time to have been concerned about taxing and spending was at the beginning of this disastrous past 7.5 years. The notion that Democrats are the tax-and-spend party went out with Clinton who left a zero deficit. The Republican clowns we had running Congress (and who still have the majority in the Senate) have squandered gazillions while in office, not on programs that actually help us, the people, but themselves and their gazillionnaire buddies in the Industrial/War machine...
Dittoheads, grow up!!!
What are you scooping scoooperss? Sh..t?
Obama is the one with the taxes on companies that take jobs out of America
Obama is the one saying get out of Iraq so we dont spend billions supporting their infrastructure while ours is falling to bits
Obama is the one saying tax cuts to the middle class and senior citizens
Obama is the one saying UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
Obama is the one supporting labor ( the workforce) not the BIG BUCKS owners like WALMART who pay the absolute minimum and try to rip off disabled workers
Obama is the one who is trying to get USA big again in the eyes of the world
Obama is the one who is trying to get American kids a good education across the board and into COLLEGE
Obama is the one giving REALISTIC college CREDITS to middle income families
Obama is the one who worked his way through school and paid back student loans
Obama is the one who knows what it is like to be on a budget
Obama is the one who has led a decent, moral live
Obama is the one who while deploring abortion does not see the need to criminalize women and doctors who make that difficult ( and personal, and between them and GOD) decision
Obama is the one who wants equal pay for women
Obama is the one who wants to run a decent campaign
Obama is the one, who in himself is CHANGE
Let me guess you watch foxnoise, too bad oh well go back to sticking your head in the sand
Dear comrades,
I don't care whether it is Brave barack or Biden who are in the seat.All that matters is strict intraparty discipline
As a strategy,Obama must announce a shadow cabinet giving positions to Al Gore,John Kerry,Hillary Clinton and wesley Clark.
In doing so,the main argument of inexperience automatically disappears
Why do some supporters stop at the door instead of entering in, by wanting to require Sen. O.b.ama to make annoucements of cabinet positions only to highlight the argument and bring about the distraction of presump.tu
Couldn't agree more. Listening to the Repubs' talking points after the Biden pick, I quickly realized the right choice was made. They did not want Biden.
Exactly!
But it's equally idiotic to suggest that Obama brings nothing to this but 'talk' as some Hillary supporters seem to be doing in your comments section.
Obama has something that Hillary and Joe Biden do not .. the ability to excite and inspire millions of people to take action. That is just as necessary as the know-how to get things done.
This ticket now has both in spades. This could be one of the most effective governing partnerships in US history. I'm stoked!
The assumption is that because someone has not done something before that they're clueless as to how to get it done. Well, I'd like to know who in the current race has BEEN POTUS before? As far as I can see ALL OF THE CANDIDATES WILL BE LEARNING ON THE JOB. JUST AS BILL, GW, GH, RR, ETC did. Running a state is only similar to POTUS adminstratively - which is the least of your worries you can hire a manager
That is the whole point that HRC made. Talk is cheap but you got to get up everyday and know how to work the system. If your saying the President is going to rely on his VP to do it then we should vote for Biden not Obama. This pick reinforces the argument that Obama is full of talk but no idea on how to execute. If one looks at Obamas career he has a pattern of talk and lack of results from law school where he did not engage, to failed community activism where he gave up and entered the state rep race, to not voting and not passing bills as a state senator and to doing almost nothing as a US senator.
He's a talker. If he wins I am glad Biden will be there to show him the way.
I totally disagree with you, knowing how to work the system is not good leadership. A good leader has a vision and is able to recognize and draw on the abilities and talents of others and motivate them to help you do the work instead of trying to carry the load alone. Leadership entails knowing how to delegate duties, otherwise are you leading?
Are you saying that while Obama was in law school at Harvard he was not engaged? I didn't think that was common at Harvard. Are you saying that while he was the president of the Harvard Law Review he was not engaged? Does that really seem possible to you. Could you think before you speak...or write as it were.
every good partnership requires a visionary who can excite people and a nuts and bolts kind of guy. I wouldn't invest in a "nuts and bolts" guy but I sure would like to make sure that the visionary had one. Further the poster didn't say that Obama would be relying on Biden for ideas only his help in getting them passed. At the end of the day the President proposes but Congress passes the legislation. In selecting Biden Obama has demonstrated that he is not only interested in getting elected but governing.
Sorry charlie but these are lies. He ran for state because he wanted to get things done faster and realized the barriers he was facing without that inside connection. While in the State Senate he got through some 200+ pieces of legislation. We've been having this same old tired argument since Hillary lost Iowa. We've all looked up the facts - which have been annotated extensively on the DailyKos. But if you've made your mind that he's a magician that has fooled America so be it. However, unlike GW, the truth is, America does not so easily believe a black man and you can be sure a lot have checked out his record.
"failed community activism where he gave up" ?!?
I'm not sure what your yardstick for success is, or what kind of experience you have in community activism, but anyone who has done it knows it is not a "win or lose" proposition. I guess you think he failed because, I don't know, maybe the community wasn't Hilton Head by the time he went into politics? Any time one spends in activism for social and economic justice has value, and the fact that Obama chose this over a lucrative corporate legal career speaks volumes about his "engagemen
Look, if you are determined not to like him, so be it. But don't try to twist the evidence of leadership, initiative, and compassion into failings. You just make yourself look petty.
Thank you. You are so right in pointing out that it is essential for Sen. O.b.ama to have someone on the ticket who knows how to get things done in D.C. in order to accomplish his agenda. The majority of those who are governing realize that current system is broken. For far to long our system of goverance has been driven by partisan agendas and relationships causing stalemates,and policies that benefit a selective few, rather than bi-partisan agendas and relationships that benefit the majority. IMO, to govern effectively one need to be able to lead others to understanding and respecting each other as shareholders while building concensus through compromise.
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