Proposition 8 passed because of religious folk. There is no question about it. Church-going Black Americans, tithe-paying Mormons, mass-attending Latinos, and Evangelical whites all joined forces in "protecting marriage." The underlying reason religious people voted to revoke from gays and lesbians the legal right to marry is doggedly theological: God doesn't like it. And when a society or culture does things that God doesn't like, that society or culture will suffer. This is a central tenet of every religion, and has been ever since the first shaman first claimed to be able to discern the will of the Almighty by examining the patterns in a bowl full of crushed berries.
And it simply isn't true. If God punishes societies that violate his commandments and rewards those that do, this just isn't apparent by looking at the state of the world today. The sociological fact is that the most irreligious nations right now are among the most successful, humane, moral, and free, while the most religious nations tend to be among the most destitute, chaotic, crime-ridden, and undemocratic. A similar pattern also holds true within the United States: those states and counties that boast the greatest numbers of strong believers and regular church attenders tend to have higher poverty rates, child abuse rates, violent crime rates, and lower educational attainment rates than those states and counties characterized by more secular populations.
Consider the nations of Scandinavia specifically. These countries are noteworthy because they were among the first nations to make abortion legal and readily available and they were also among the first nations (along with Holland) to allow for gay marriage. Indeed, gays and lesbians have been able to wed in these countries of Northern Europe for nearly 20 years now. And what is the state of society in these relatively irreligious nations, where weekly church attendance is among the lowest in the world and belief in God is markedly thin? They lead the world on nearly all indicators of societal well-being. From economic prosperity to low crime rates, from equality between men and women to excellent child welfare, from life expectancy to low rates of H.I.V., the relatively godless (or at least God-indifferent) nations of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Holland suggest that secularity - and acceptance of gay marriage, specifically -- doesn't bring down the wrath of God at all. And yet when we look at the most religious nations in the world - especially those that severely condemn homosexuality, such as Iran, Angola, and Mauritania -- we see extreme poverty, high violent crime rates, oppression of women, dictatorship, warfare, corruption, etc..
Where is the best place to be a mother and raise children? According to the latest Save the Children Report, it is relatively godless Sweden. The worst? Extremely Godful Niger. How about murder rates? Highly religious Columbia leads the globe, while highly secular Japan is near the bottom. What about strong economies? According to the World Economic Forum, of the top ten nations boasting today's most competitive economies, nine are relatively irreligious (the USA being the sole exception). According to the latest Global Peace Index, the top five most peaceful nations are simultaneously among the most secular, such as Denmark, which ranks in at #2. Even when it comes to suicide rates, it is the former Soviet nations that lead the pack, some of which are fairly secular, but most of which are quite religious, such as Lithuania.
Admittedly, atheist-communist regimes constitute an ugly experiment in human misery. North Korea is far from a beacon of societal health. The same can be said of the former U.S.S.R, China, or little Albania under former atheist-dictator Enver Hoxha. There is no question that atheism coupled with totalitarianism is a veritable recipe for societal disaster. But as for democracies that forgo God -- societies in which secularism is not forced upon a captive citizenry by dictators, but emerges organically and freely over several generations -- the overall international pattern is unmistakable. It is the more godless democracies - and especially those that allow for gays and lesbians to wed -- that are faring the best, while it is the more God-worshipping and homosexual-condemning nations that are faring the worst.
When it comes to God and the acceptance of gay marriage, the religious supporters of Proposition 8 certainly have a right to their opinion. But that doesn't make their opinion right.
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Let an interested party prepare a ballot initiative that would, in the spirit of Propositio
The rationale: Propositio
Propositio
However, the situation with Mormons is quite something else again. The religion has a long tradition of pluralisti
Since Mormons have demonstrat
To the argument that the Constituti
The irony becomes doubly delicious when you consider that the Christian evangelica
http://www
Government
"Amendment
Yes, even those who love us are stressing from PROP 8 and other electoral insults...
Americans want to deny us what they DEEM ESSENTIAL.
It occurred to me while reading your second to last paragraph that virtually the only difference between an atheist dictatorsh
Totalitari
I assure you that is precisely why same sex couples want to get married too, because it shows love, commitment
My point, 1) I want to completely separate religious marriage from civil marriage and grant civil marriage to all consenting adults 2) Get people to come back to church more often then just to get married or witness others getting married.
31 years later, I am here to say the marriage lasted, but our religions didn't. We decided to absent ourselves from any religions too narrow-min
If church members who disagree with their churches' stands on gay marriage would speak out or walk out, maybe these church leaders would think twice about trying to control the lives of people who are not even members of their churches.
Aren't their marriages just "Civil marriages" performed with a Justice of the Peace ?
THEY get to use the word "marriage"
Given such a belief system, why are devout Christians so determined to take away other people's ability to exercise their free will? Why ban abortion and/or gay marriage? Even assuming that Christians are right in believing that God regards such behavior as sinful, the Godly thing to do would be to allow people the freedom to decide for themselves how to behave. It is up to God to judge their behavior and to decide whether or not to forgive sins.
That's called coercion.
Hence, the separate monikers that the country should apply to these different unions is validated in the fact of the copulation of thesexes: Human life.
Married is the joing of a man and a woman. Civil unions recognizes the differnce in the couples yet provides the legal rights that same sex couples seek.
if miltant gays accept this, their battle will be one of victory.
Hence, without bringing a religious slant to the debate, the reasoning is sound. Civil unions should be granted to same sex couples while marriage (the joing of a man and a woman in a sexual nature will produce a new life) should continue to be reserved (and respected) for heterosexu
I did not say any such thing in my response. No one here is talking about families being 'illegitim
I am trying to point out the difference as to why marriage is between a man and a woman and civil unions (which I support, inclusive all the legal rights) is between two people of the same sex. That difference is not diminsihin
intent regarding separation of church and state the worse things get.
I have a deep faith in a higher power. However, when it comes to my government
I want policies that are for ALL of the people, not just those that adhere to a specific
religious belief.
I'm strong enough and faithful enough to know that it's my own personal
actions in my own day-to-day life that determine my destiny. Forcing my
beliefs on my fellow citizens is, in my opinion, very un-God like.
While thinking about all this Prop 8 stuff, it occured to me that what this is actually all about is killing two birds with one stone. Step 1, enrage the gay community by claiming it was the black vote that curtailed marriage equality, Step 2, bring back votes on Affirmativ
Again, maybe I am being paranoid, but don't be surprised when Affirmativ
I decided not to let others define my humanity. I have accepted that it is okay to want Equality even for those persons who do not want it for me....this helps me stay immuned to strategies of divide and conquer. That said....ec