Without God there is no objective morality.
In one sentence, this summarizes the "Moral Argument" for the existence of God. Along with other classic arguments -- the ontological, teleological, cosmological and experiential -- this seeks to present a philosophical argument that proves the necessity of God. And like the other classic arguments, this one has been highly critiqued. Michael Shermer's following comments are typical of these critiques:
The argument that we cannot be good without God is easily refuted through a simple and straightforward question: What would you do if there were no God? ... Would you commit deception, robbery, rape, and murder, or would you continue being a good and moral person? ... If the answer is that people would continue being good and moral, then apparently you can be good without God.
The moral argument does not require a belief of any kind because it is based on the essential recognition that objective moral standards -- absolute right and wrong -- exist. And we know absolute right from wrong internally; they are not "given" in any documents or beliefs. We do not need the 10 Commandments to know that murder is wrong, but the 10 Commandments, instead, reinforce the moral imperatives that we already intuitively know to be true. Objective morality, then, does not rely on, or require, any external imposed belief structure, just as one does not need to "believe" in anything in order to experience the existence and qualities of love.
But where does objective morality come from? According to the moral argument it cannot arise from natural processes alone, because while random, undirected events that proceed without deliberate plan or purpose can perhaps account for the instinct of survival and procreation, they cannot account for the existence of absolute right and wrong. A universe that is random and uncreated and that operates purely on unintentional interactions can only result in subjective inclinations, not absolute morals. Friedrich Nietzsche, who asserted a universe without God, recognized this when he proposed that the driving force in human beings is the will to power, and that conventional morality is simply a restraint devised by the weak to control the powerful. Such a position can lead to horrors -- as we've seen -- but at least it is internally consistent.
The existence of objective morality necessitates a supernatural source. This is not a denial of the physical mechanism of evolution -- which is a scientific truth -- but is the assertion that the best explanation for the existence of objective morality is that it is consciously built in to the process of creation itself. And the source of this morality is the creative, conscious, sustaining power of the universe that is called God. Emmanuel Kant proposed that we are all "bound" to these moral laws, regardless of our own particular goals.
As our individual consciousness evolves, the strength of the connection to this universal consciousness, which contains moral laws, grows. The more evolved we become as a species, then, the more we connect to the morality that is embedded in creation, and the more moral we naturally become. One does not need to believe in God for this mechanism to work, as one does not need to believe in gravity for a dropped object to hit the floor.
This is the basis of moral argument, and from this perspective Shermer's questions are irrelevant because he confused cause and effect. But there still remain reasonable objections. First, there are schools of philosophy that deny the premise of the existence of objective morality, proposing that all morals are culturally derived, and that what is good for one is evil for another. This position posits that if the Nazis had won World War II then genocide and racial hatred would be seen as good, and compassion for the weak and acceptance of diversity would be seen as bad. The only reasonable response to such a position is to say that, unless one is sociopathic, we can all agree that the mass slaughter of innocents, gratuitous torture and totalitarian subjugation are absolutely morally wrong, and that freedom and compassion are absolutely good. To deny this is to embrace narcissism and nihilism.
Another objection is, "If morality is absolute, why do we see so much evil in the world?" Of course by labeling certain actions as "evil" the very question itself implies the existence of objective moral standards. If there is no morality, how can anything be called evil? Beyond this, though, the simple answer is free will. While absolute morality exists, we are free at any moment to ignore it. The continued choice to ignore the call of morality, though, damages the individual and drives him further away from humanity and true happiness.
The final objection to the moral argument is that natural processes could in fact have been responsible for absolute morality. The need to care for the group is a survival mechanism, so moral qualities such as charity and caring for the weak have arisen through natural selection. Even an act of self-sacrifice that seems to violate the instinct for survival is actually another instinct to maintain the community. While this is most likely true in many instances, there remains an internal sense that morality is more than this. Unlike an instinct that propels us, usually unconsciously, toward an act, we search deep within ourselves to find morality, and discover it in an internal "dialogue" in which we weigh options for the right answer.
If we are sensitive to this process we feel the answer coming from a higher source that aligns with the highest vision of ourselves. I have heard this alignment described as a "truth cord" that reverberates when struck with the "pitch" of the universal moral laws. Our hearts are stirred by acts of bravery and sacrifice, and are called to redress selfishness and cruelty, even at personal sacrifice. And when we strive to live in accordance with this process we are elevated and become a blessing to the world.
The moral argument is an existential recognition that there is something in us -- what some call the soul -- that insists on right action, and that these right actions are for the benefit of all living things and for the care of the Earth. This insistence that our lives be of service and contribution is a universal call that we recognize as true because we are connected to the Source of truth. This is what religions mean by the word "Holy."
The Guyliner: Sorry, There's No Cure For Gay - Why Not Pray For an Antidote to Stupid Instead?
Existence of God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God by Peter Kreeft ...
I think this sentence contains the core fallacy of Rabbi Lurie's argument. He acknowledges that altruism has clear evolutionary advantages since evolution works on groups as well as individuals but he dismisses this on the basis of what? An internal sense. In other words we "feel" that there must be more to morality than this. How is this any kind of compelling argument for God as the source of morality and by implication the existence of morality as proof of God? We have all sorts of 'feelings' about things which are often contrary to the truth.
Is there proof of objective morality? Is there proof of God? Lets stop there and see how far we get.
You say "the mass slaughter of innocents, gratuitous torture and totalitarian subjugation" are absolutely wrong but these are the same things that God viewed in the Semitic religions does/did. God ordered Joshua to kill all the residents of Jericho, every single one. That's mass slaughter, just like killing every single being on the planet except for noah and his family plus the animals on the ark. Gratuitous torture is what God and Satan did to Job, they killed his family and ruined his life just on a bet. Totalitarian Subjugation, ummm, punishing the Israelites for not listening by causing their enslavement, forcing them to wonder the world and so on. Clearly morality isn't something that God as viewed by the Semitic faiths is concerned with and even if it was apparently its not absolute because God can break them whenever He wants for whatever reason.
So no, your argument for morality and God is not in anyway shown to be true.
Without God there is no objective morality. Yes, so?
That's not an argument, that's just a statement of fact.
a million years of evolution
And let me guess, your god's version of morality is the only real one, right?
Watta sooprize!
While many religious bigots DO think exactly that Sally the author of this piece makes it quite clear that this is not what he's saying. But it was definitely worth flagging that up in the context of a discussion about religion and morality
Wouldn't such an act have to be moral from all perspectives to be defined as objective?
How could this be possible? Would it not first be necessary to define differing perspectives as subjective and thus amoral? By what means could it be determined that the perspective from which those subjective perspectives are deemed amoral is objective?
It would seem that objective morality is a figment of a religious imagination.
The problem with Lurie's view is that ultimately it does not make morality objective enough.
What is usually called the Moral Argument is the argument by CS Lewis that the fact that we have a conscience requires that we get that conscience from something like God. This is a bad argument since evolution is sufficient to explain why we have a conscience (think how hard it would be for a group of people without one to work together well enough to survive). And the degree to which our consciences are socially molded undercuts the idea that there is any greater objectivity to our conscience than evolution could explain.
But you did not prove that there is any such thing as objective morality, and if you can't support the "if", you don't get to assume the "then."
It's the same circular argument many theists use to support their belief in god: there are all these things that god made! There's your evidence that god exists! -- Okay, those things exist. But how does that prove they were created by god? Once that first unsupported assumption gets challenged, the whole house of cards falls apart.
And please define your terms. Morals are rules set by deities and need not make sense. If a god says not to wear a red hat (eat shrimp, cut your hair, whatever) then it is immoral to do those harmless things. Ethics are rules hammered out by humans through trial and error. We agree not to murder, steal, etc., -- but if no harm is done, no rules need to be created.
Notions of fair behavior are evolving, and I don't want anyone to disengage from the dialogue. But the logic employed in this article wouldn't stand up to a high school debate team or student-level semantic analysis.
Murder, theft, and many other activities are detrimental to humans individually and collectively.
No magic here. Just practical rules for the benefit of all humans. Man-made rules.
Evolutionary biology has refuted this quite concretely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
This simple question to take us to your ultimate logical philosophical failure is "What is your ultimate authority for your final morality code of conduct?"
Your question is fallacious, as it presumes the existence of an ultimate moral authority. Morality is relative; this is abundantly evident through the study of biology, history, anthropology, sociology, etc. A relative morality does not imply a lack of structure. The principals of evolution work to explain the existence of moral codes quite elegantly. Take the following study as an example:
http://www.livescience.com/15451-chimps-humanlike-altruism.html
We've observed chimps acting in altruistic ways. The evolutionary explanation for this is simple. Chimps who act altruistically are better adapted to survive in their current environment; they pass on these genetic and behavioral traits through reproduction. Please note the "current environment" portion of the preceding statement; this is what links morality to relativism. Morality is relative to environment.
I submit the following example: Salem Massachusetts, AD 1692. There were several key factors shaping morality at that time, chief among them the widely held superstition concerning the existence of Witches. In this example, we see authority figures participating in burning human being's alive. These acts were, at the time, completely within' the confines of morality. To reject this paradigm, meant rejection from the majority of society, and a lower pool of mates with which to procreate. This in turn meant a lower likelihood of reproducing, which meant a lower likelihood of passing genetic material and behavior.
Would you like to prove that?
Furthermore, please enlighten me on this objectivity problem, as I see no issue with subjective morality.