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Randy Turner

Randy Turner

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When It Comes to Teaching, Who Needs Experience?

Posted: 04/ 4/11 05:06 PM ET

As I think back over a dozen years in the classroom, I cannot recall the exact moment that I changed from an idealistic beginning teacher at the peak of my game to the space-wasting NEA member who is keeping some good young teacher on the unemployment line.

When did experience turn from an asset to the biggest roadblock to saving American public schools?

In Missouri, a bill has been proposed by Republican Rep. Scott Dieckhaus which would eliminate tenure and the due process it guarantees and allow administrators and school boards to fire teachers with or without reason.

Dieckhaus' bill also calls for a four-tier merit pay system, based almost entirely on the scores on standardized tests. The bill specifically forbids basing teacher pay on years of experience or advanced schooling.

Surprisingly, Dieckhaus, before entering the world of politics, taught history in a public school. Fortunately, he left education after four years, or right about the point where these experts would have us believe his teaching skills would have begun to disintegrate.

When is some politician going to have the courage to tell the truth -- there is no crisis in public education?

And when will the media stop perverting the word "reform" when it comes to education? The only people who earn the designation of reformer are those who are firing teachers, closing schools, or operating charters.

I am not going to pretend that public education has no problems. We have serious problems. We have failing inner city schools, high dropout rates in some areas, and a standardized testing culture that is simply preparing our children to fill in bubbles and not to master critical thinking skills.

The culture of accountability, as it is defined by those who seek to privatize one of America's greatest successes -- an educational system that opens its doors to everyone -- has perverted America's public schools from an incubator of hopes, dreams, and ideas, to a fertile feeding ground for those who plan to make their careers out of taking standardized tests.

I am still waiting for the reformers to explain how using the same privatization plans and business principles that put this country into a deep recession are going to suddenly work miracles with inner-city schools located directly in the center of crime, desperation, and hopelessness.

This country took seriously the idea of educating every child long before it became the political catchphrase that signaled the beginning of one of the most nightmarish times in the history of public education.

We have always believed that all children, whether they were born in the lap of luxury or in the crevices of a crack house, are entitled to a quality education.

The conceit of No Child Left Behind is the idea that prior to its enactment, public school teachers and administrators were doing their best to deprive children of the American dream.

I can tell you categorically that the teachers I have worked with these past 12 years have not been sitting around, waiting to get tenure so they can take a long nap until retirement. We agonize over children who do appear to be slipping through the cracks, ones who move from school to school, never staying long enough to get an education.

We agonize over how to help children who suffer from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse that is almost impossible to comprehend. We deal with children who have parents in prison, who are exposed to drug and alcohol use every day, and who sometimes do not receive any kind of nourishment from the time they leave school until they arrive for breakfast the next morning.

The most remarkable story, and one that has remained untold, is the incredible number of successes we have with these children. While Waiting for Superman took cheap shots at public schools, emphasizing children with parents who care and failing to interview any teachers, veteran teachers have been in the trenches, doing what we have been doing all along, educating the vast majority of American children, and doing our best to succeed with the rest.

For this, we have become the nation's villains, labeled as selfish and self-involved.

Day after day, teachers in public schools across the United States, people who entered education with a desire to help children learn, listen as we are demonized by politicians who have made us a symbol of everything that is wrong in America.

When I hear the complaints about rules that say the last hired are the first fired are crippling education, I think about an incident that I first wrote about a few months ago.

I was in my seventh year of teaching when one of my most gifted eighth graders came into my classroom after school, clearly upset. We talked for an hour, but the things we talked about were average, everyday, mundane topics. I could sense she had something she wanted to talk to me about.

Finally, I said, "You haven't seemed like yourself lately. Are you all right?" She looked at me for a moment, smiled, and nodded. A few moments later, she left. A few months ago, I had another conversation with this young woman, who is now attending college. She reminded me of that day and thanked me.

"I was thinking about killing myself."

That information shocked me. This was a talented young woman whose intelligence and abilities were far beyond those of most of her classmates.

"You took the time to talk to me," she said. "I thought if someone like you cared about what happened to me, maybe things weren't as bad as I thought."

It was just a simple thing, something thousands of classroom teachers across the United States have done day after day, year after year.

I don't know if I would have handled that situation right in my first year or two. No matter what the prophets of reform are saying, experience is an asset for a classroom teacher.

The problem with our country's educational system is not with those who teach, but with those who would sacrifice all that is good in education in their continued pursuit of the almighty dollar.

This country is not suffering because of a crisis in education. Our problem is a crisis in leadership.

 
 
 

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11:33 PM on 04/05/2011
Please-this deform system that has recently reached its zenith of insanity is the inflexible model where there can be nothing but conformity and teaching to the test-I can remember many years ago when we did have the time and were rewarded for individualizing and helping students with divergent needs-
Now that kid better do well on the test or he will flunk, his teacher will be canned, and the school will be closed-so no more stories of fake "innovation" with those wonderful newbies providing leadership and saving the world-it's not real
09:03 PM on 04/05/2011
I'll agree with the last statement that there is a crisis in leadership. However, you provide no solutions other than bashing those who want to stretch the system. The "system" itself is broken because it doesn't allow teachers and leaders to improvise based on the needs of the students. The "system" doesn't allow for creativity or innovation (that's not a bad word for education). There is plenty of blame to go around...whether or not there is a crisis in public education can be debated. But while we debate, kids are waiting.
07:12 PM on 04/05/2011
In the school I am working at as an intern teacher I have been following the drama of "Tim" quite closely. You see Tim is a young child (4th grader) with Asperger's, and was in a class with the worst teacher possible for him. Anything sensory based was voodoo and she would demand 10 sources to back it up (and then still not do it). Everything he did in her eyes was wrong. This viewpoint was passed to his classmates who started bullying him relentlessly. Nothing was going right for this child, and he started to feel depressed and isolated (wouldn't you?). This teacher has 25 years of classroom experience (as she will tell you repeatedly).

About a month ago he was moved from that class to another class where he has started to go back to the way he was before this year was started. The teacher is far more accepting. The teacher is willing to try to new things. Etc. He is also starting to make some friends in this class (an accomplishment for anyone with an ASD). This teacher also has less than 5 years experience.

While this is obviously not always the case, this example shows how its not always the oldest teachers that are needed, and how last hired first fired techniques can sometimes get rid of the neccessary teachers, and how tenure can make the job harder for less experienced teachers.
11:39 PM on 04/05/2011
So will this 5 year teacher be a bad teacher in 20 years? Most likely not, without due process, a new principal that wants to remove her and get a "friend" on staff, might fire her.

The 25 year teacher needs a building leader, to help her improve or to leave. Is that going on currently?
12:59 AM on 04/06/2011
The "experienced teacher" (yea right, more of 1 year of teaching 25 times) has too many followers to allow her to not change. Lets face it, as long as ASD people are one in 100 or less... there isn't going to be much incentive to make them change for one student (this coming from an aspie going into education). Now if it was a "real" problem there might be someone helping her to improve or leave, but what power do they really have. A teacher that beleives she is great isn't going to voluntarily quit, and as long as she has tenure it becomes hard to fire her for one student.

Beyond that is it just me or do we here assume that all experienced teachers are great and all administrators are bad... there is a problem there I think.
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11:39 AM on 04/05/2011
"The problem with our country's educational system is not with those who teach, but with those who would sacrifice all that is good in education in their continued pursuit of the almighty dollar.
This country is not suffering because of a crisis in education. Our problem is a crisis in leadership."

Are you referring to union leadership? I hope so!
11:41 PM on 04/05/2011
yes, my school librarian, who is our union leader, is causing this crisis????????
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09:37 PM on 04/07/2011
“my school librarian, who is our union leader”
I truly do not remember commenting about school librarians? I'm a big fan of public and school librarians. Just the other night I had a very pleasant conversation one of our local librarians. I was looking to see if our local library subscribed to *Mango Languages... Not yet but soon, they use Rosetta Stone. It's only on three computers and you have to sign up a week ahead of time to use it...
* http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nataly-kelly/what-malia-and-sasha-obam_b_824550.html

Now that I think about it, maybe you could ask your union leader where I could find information on the physical and psychological effects of Corporal Punishment and Bullying. I'm told that there was a study done on it that union leadership uses when they negotiate Wage and Benefits. Our local librarians can't locate it. They said it must be out there somewhere if 20 States are still beating children.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/09/marc-ecko-corporal-punishment_n_833623.html
http://www.bullyonline.org/schoolbully/

One more favor, please, ask your union leader, why they were at a resort in Denver while teachers were freezing on the picket line in Wisconsin.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randi-weingarten/national-collaboration-conference-denver_b_826234.html
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10:51 AM on 04/05/2011
"teachers fired with or without reason" There are laws to prevent this. In the real world, no one is firing talented experienced people to save a couple of bucks - in fact they do everything they can to keep them. The system is tilted in favor of the less talented. Tenure and pay based on senioroty is THE PROBLEM. Until good teachers push for systems that benefit them things will not change. If standardized scores are inappropriate, fine. Come up with another idea, believe me we will listen. However, all we hear is that there is no fair way so maintain the status quo which is no working.
There is a monumental difference between 15 years experience and 1 years experience 15 times over. You need something in place to quantify the value of the number of years worked and the associated pay. Don't tell us to pay you for advanced education when there is nothing in place to direct what that education is in. I don't feel it's appropriate to pay a math teacher additonal money because they got their doctorate in birdwatching. Create a system that shows the true worth of teachers and that advanced degrees are utilized to benefit the students versus driving payscales. Create a system that fosters supporting quality educators while weeding out those that don't meet the standards. Do that and I assure you the american public will stand with you and you will have earned the level of respect your profession seeks.
11:28 AM on 04/06/2011
Respectfully, I have to say that in my district (and I'm sure many others), we are only paid additional amounts for advanced degrees if that degree is in the field we teach. Furthermore, in Massachusetts (where I teach) all teachers are required to achieve their Master's Degree within 5 yrs of teaching. I and many other teachers are wary of taking away senority protections, not because of a lack of talent, but because we have seen/worked with administrators who play favorites, hire lackeys and denigrate any teacher who has a dissenting voice.
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maninal2
Without knowledge action is useless
04:38 PM on 04/06/2011
"In the real world, no one is firing talented experience­d people to save a couple of bucks - in fact they do everything they can to keep them. "

You've posted a stunningly uneducated statement or a lie. Which is it?
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mlaiuppa
Pres. Sarcasm Society. Like we need your approval.
12:05 AM on 04/05/2011
My best teacher friend works at a charter school in Minnesota with troubled youth for whom this school is their last chance. They've been evaluated and passed with flying colors. She makes a difference with her students. They enter her class virtually illiterate and leave reading and writing well enough to be gainfully employed. The point is...they graduate high school.

She is a senior teacher making a difference. But she is a senior teacher and that means she is more expensive than a fresh out of college novice teacher and in these budget cutting times....she's just be told her contract will not be renewed in the fall.

She is one year and one quarter away from retirement.

This is exactly what the private sector did to workers. They fired them right before they qualified for retirement.

Those students at ROC are being deprived of an excellent teacher. And an excellent teacher is being treated like dirt. Run schools like a business? Gee. I don't think so. Because the bottom line of business is profit. Anything to make buck.

Jay. You should be ashamed. Cheryl is the reason your school passed it's audit evaluation last year with flying colors. Now you're tossing her aside like an old rag. You're telling her that her career meant nothing, she has no value and the students of ROC can do just as well with some cheap newbie.

Jay, I'm so ashamed of you.

I hope the parents pink slip you.
10:56 PM on 04/04/2011
Tenure is essential in this teacher trashing and corporate deform environment. It is the only thing that keeps the deformers from taking over and putting MacTeachers in the classroom or better yet a computer to pour knowledge into your kid's head. Never knew anyone before this group of clowns that wanted a bunch of newbies in the classroom. The richer the district the more old and experienced teachers they had; the poorer districts had the newbies who fled to suburbs once they learned how to teach on the poorer kids.
By the way, I loved your story about the student. Years later when students tell us it mattered you know why you put up with teaching in an American system that does not give teachers the respect or monetary reward they so deserve.
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rturner229
11:02 PM on 04/04/2011
Thanks for the kind words. Believe me, with everything I see happening in education, thinking about students like that is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes.
07:11 PM on 04/04/2011
I would expect an educator would know better than to employ such a blatant straw-man argument, but sadly, this is a trap many union-supporters fall into when arguing the case against tenure reform. Of course nobody believes "new teacher = good and old teacher = bad", and virtually no one is proposing a system where the old are booted out, as a rule, in favor of the young. What we're arguing against is the Union-promoted tenure rules that dictate "old teacher = good and new teacher = bad", this is the ENTIRE rationale behind tenure-based layoff preferences. Being one of the "parents who care", many of us can name several real-world examples where the "old teacher = good and new teacher = bad" assumption has lead to disastrous results, and hence, our support for common-sense tenure reform.

Why is the author so dismissive of the concerns of "parents who care", and the steps we take to find quality education for their children? Too many teachers opposed to any sort of tenure reform act as though uninvolved and abusive parents are the only problem, and then completely ignore the arguments of the parents who actually give a damn. This is why you lack support, and this is why you're losing the argument.
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rturner229
09:49 PM on 04/04/2011
The actual straw man argument is the one being used by the people who point out one excellent teacher who lost a job because of the rule. What no one ever mentions are the advantages of keeping solid, experienced teachers in the classroom. While there are some teachers who are brilliant from the start, for most, the first two years are a time of trial and error. And I am not dismissive of parents who care. I wish all parents fell into that category. Sadly, that is not the case. Waiting for Superman failed to show us the other side of the story and never bothered to find out what the real deal is from the people who know best- the classroom teachers. Tenure is not a barrier in most places to removing bad teachers. It simply requires due process.
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maninal2
Without knowledge action is useless
04:39 PM on 04/06/2011
Also what is not discussed is the affect school instability has on children. Children in their development years need a stable environment in order to reach their potential.
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mlaiuppa
Pres. Sarcasm Society. Like we need your approval.
12:12 AM on 04/05/2011
But that's exactly what is happening. If you're "at will" and you're expensive. I.E. a master's degree or more than 10 years seniority, you're going to be gone. Because you're expensive and the budget has to be balanced.

No amount of being superteacher, teacher of the year, highly effective, etc. will save you. If they can save money, they'll do it. And they'll use the same arguments the private sector uses. They'll lie and say the teacher was "bad" even though every single evaluation has been effective. They'll certainly do it before any teacher qualifies for their pension. Just like the private sector did to their employees.

I have yet to have any parent sit in my class long enough to know what is going on. They are clueless as to who is effective. If their kid complains, they think bad teacher. Their kid doesn't do his homework, or constantly disrupts class, what do you think the kid is going to do. Go home and tell Mom, yeah, I deserved that D. No. They're going to protect their butt and blame the teacher. And most parents these days will swallow it because little Johnny would never lie. They know their kid and he would never lie.

Right.

It takes a teacher 30 years of slow salary advancement to finally make the same salary as their professional peers as far as education and experience. Maybe if all teachers were paid that salary starting in year five then tenure wouldn't matter.
12:08 PM on 04/07/2011
Teaching is a skill. My father is an excellent teacher, but my mother is not. They're equally educated and qualified. I have had maybe 6-8 teachers who really TAUGHT me something. The rest got frustrated with the class if we didn't follow them or would yell at us if we corrected something they said/wrote down. I see what you're saying about parents enabling the bad behavior in their children. I'm sure it's difficult to put up with kids, since so many of them have entitlement issues. But as a kid who loves learning and looked forward to interesting lectures and always wanted to dig deeper and deeper into subjects, I was extremely let down by my teachers. My college professors were great, though.
06:14 PM on 04/04/2011
The list is long of those elements that go into success at school that have nothing to do with the building, have nothing to do with the teachers, nothing to do with the books, nothing to do with the schedule; it's all about parenting. When less than one third of the day is spent in school, it cannot be the source of so much failure. In addition, to base one's career on a test that can only be influenced 6 or 7 hours a day by the school, is outrageous! Everyone needs to start looking at single irresponsible parenthood. The idea that someone has 3 or 5 children without thinking about their future, is because the government gives a lot of money for being irresponsible. Payment can be good for those that reproduce every two years (in our state you have to have a child below 2 to avoid working); or who ignore their children so they qualify for a disabilty; 3 kids with that payment can really pad your income, and without working. You don't have to worry about an apartment (first month's rent, last month, one month deposit) becaue the government will find a place for you and pay for it. You can get help for utliities from any social service agency, especially if you have a lot of children, because the sympathy meter runs high and it can be very effective. So, until we address the social problems, nothing will change, not evern test scores.