Primary Concern: Florida and Michigan

At her campaign celebration last night in Ohio, Hillary Clinton raised the specter of a nasty, divisive fight at the Democratic National Convention, claiming that she should be the party's nominee based on her big state victories, rather than on the pledged-delegate count. It was a slick and sophisticated attempt to change the rules in the middle of the game and declare herself the winner.

She said, "You all know that if we want a Democratic president, we need a Democratic nominee who can win the battleground states just like Ohio. And that is what we've done." Then, she listed the states she "won," boldly including Florida and Michigan in the litany.

Weeks before her boast, Julian Bond, the Chairman of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and one of my heroes, penned a letter to DNC Chair Howard Dean noting that he is "deeply concerned" about the "will and intent of the Florida and Michigan voters."

But, both Clinton and Bond leave several important facts off the table.

First, the rules. They were known and agreed to by everyone involved, well before the first votes were cast in Iowa. All the campaigns, including the Clinton campaign, pledged to honor the "early window" that included only four states: Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina. Enforcement of the primary timing rule against Florida and Michigan was necessary to prevent the 2008 nominating calendar from falling into chaos. Moreover, a decision to overturn this action by the DNC could destroy our nominating process for 2012 and future years, as states realize that there will be no penalty for violating the primary timing rule.

Second, the DNC's Rules Bylaws Committee gave both Florida and Michigan a full and fair hearing, plus an open and transparent vote, and their efforts to "jump to the head of the line" were soundly defeated. No other state party organization or Rules Committee members supported them. None of the campaigns--including the Clinton campaign, which is very well represented on the Rules Committee--spoke up for the principle of allowing Florida and Michigan to go ahead of the other states.

Third, the new 2008 primary calendar was painstakingly worked out for the very purpose of increasing early voting diversity. Along with Iowa and New Hampshire, most Democrats agreed that both Latinos and African Americans should be added to the early voting equation. Adding Nevada and South Carolina to the early calendar increased regional and racial diversity while protecting the grassroots, small state nature of the early primary process. The DNC was right to protect these two states from encroachment in the calendar by Florida and Michigan.

Fourth, since there was no campaigning in either Florida or Michigan, and neither the names of Obama nor Edwards even appeared on the Michigan ballot, the idea that the votes cast there represent "the will and intent" of the people is nonsense. We must not allow the uncontested primaries in Florida and Michigan to "nullify" the will of the large mass of voters in all of the hotly-contested primaries and caucuses around the country where the candidates did campaign and the voters had the chance to meet the candidates, ask questions, hear their message and make an informed decision on who would be the best nominee for the Democratic Party.

Finally, I want to be clear that this is a disagreement between the DNC and the Florida and Michigan State Democratic Parties. This is not--and should not become--an argument between Senator Obama and the voters of Florida or Michigan. Senator Obama will reach out to the voters in Florida and Michigan as the presidential nominee of our Party, and will work hard to carry these two important states for Democrats in the November election.

Congressman Jackson is serving his seventh term in the US House and is a National Co-Chairman of the Obama for President Campaign.

Comments

[apresdeluge]

I especially like the disclaimer in the last paragraph. Basically Jackson is saying: we will do everything in our power to disenfranchise the voters of Michigan and Florida but don't worry, if Obama wins the nomination we will kiss up and make nice to get your votes in the general election. So this is the "new kind of politics"?

[moevaughn]

exactly. good insight.

[nazgul]

Look, the FLA and MI state party heads took their state's delegates out of play when they chose not to follow the party rules. The blame lies at their feet and no where else. To change the rules in mid-contest makes a mockery of the system and invalidates the contest.

[TommyMcCarthy]

Apparently the old Grantland Rice maxim has been ammended:.....

"It's not whether you win or lose,...it's how you PLACE THE BLAME"

A free and fair national election is neither if voters in two major states are disenfranchised because of the arbitrary ruling of the "DNC rules-bylaws committee"

Do 'em over,...split 'em up....or seat 'em as is.

Pretending Fla. and Mich. voters don't exist is the WORST option,...not to mention the one most likely to cost the nominee the general election...........................................................tm

[madfloridian]

Do you even know the history of what happened? What state party heads do you think were involved?
The Democrats in Florida made NO SUCH CHOICE. The DNC is holding democrats hostage because of the Republican Florida Legislature set the election dates and did so in a manner that broke a Democratic party rule. This is a clash of the titans that victimizes Florida democrats. Now Florida does not have the funds to redo an election that has was ruled "invalid" by the arrogance of the DNC. Our Rep Legislature is cutting over $300 million from education in their current session.

This is a case of voter rights and the of the national party taking a stand that it cannot defend on any principle of democracy. This is only a big issue because the election is too close for comfort. If this had been handled by recognizing that national political parties do not control state law or fund state elections, the issue would have been decided in August. If my January vote does not count, don't count on my vote in November.

[moevaughn]

and I'd also add:

The DNC ought to find a way to punish the actual rule-breakers: Florida's Republican-ruled State Legislature and Republican Governor.

The DNC has not only cut off its own nose to spite its face, it has also thrown 1.7 million babies out with the bathwater. The DNC leadership is the most incompetent ever. Fire Howard Dean -- who apparently didn't have a clue how important Florida and Michigan are in a presidential election.

[Repubnomore]

I believe that South Carolina had Democratic and Republican primaries on separate dates. Florida could have done the same. It was Florida's Democratic leadership that disenfranchised its own party's voters, not the Republicans.

[danceswithyids]

Any system that uses caucases, delegate proportioning and super delegates and calls itself democratic is already doing a great job of making a mockery of itself.

[PeteBogs]

I've got to tell you - as a Florida citizen and voter, I don't care about the "whys and wherefores" of DNC rules... I want to vote, and I want my vote counted... I don't want party squabbling to interfere with my civil rights... Republicants took a lot of people's votes away in 2000; I never expected my own party to do the same to me... surely I don't have to make the case against disenfranchisement to an African American?

I am voting for Obama, but I am not giving him or the party any financial support... it's my way of "punishing" the party that punished my state, and me in the process...

[moevaughn]

exactly. the democrats get no more money from me either, and Howard Dean should be fired for such incompetence. He didn't know how important Florida and Michigan are in a presidential election?!! unbelievable.

[TellitLikeItIs]

Are you even from Michigan or Florida? I am a life-long Michiganian----and again--- I say that the person who should be fired for incompetence is the head of the Michigan Democratic party, and any other croney involved in this f.ing fiasco!! Fired for either incompetence or game playing, whichever fits. Do you even know that Michigans' governor and at least one of our U.S. Senator are big time Hillary supporters, so maybe they were trying to throw a monkey wrench into the process from the get-go by moving the primary up.

Obviously, you've got an old bone to pick with Howard Dean and are using this for an excuse to dump on him. Dean knows damn well that Florida and Michigan are important, so get off your high horse and start working to get the re-vote that Michigan and Florida deserve, so that they can be in compliance with the rules and so that our votes can count! If you don't like Dean being the DNC chair, tough---- I wasn't at all fond of Terry McAuliffe (Hillary's campaigan "Director"), but we were stuck with him and now YOU are stuck with Dean.

[endymian]

for all you obama supporters who keep saying --do the math--hillary can't take a lead over obama and get the simple majority required to be the nominee, one has to say in a loud voice so even you obama strategists will hear it---obama's math doesn't give him the simple majority needed to be the nominee either. nothing in the rules of the democratic national committee governing the nominating process, --and shame on you john kerry, and jesse jackson jr et al, you should know this---awards the a candidate with a lead in delegates the nomination of the party.

what you guys are trying to do is hijack the nominating process, by now claiming that the nominaiton is righfully obama's because he leads by a hanfull of delegates. nonsense, and you know it--or should. what has happened, so far, is that a split democratic electorate has declared a draw--one you were hoping would be erased by obama wins in texas and ohio, that were clinton wins instead, and according to the rules of the democratic party, if no candidate attains the simple majority with the help of the superdelegates, than the conveniton becaomes an open one in one or more rounds of voting, until a majority is achieved by one candidate to become the nominee.

do your math, obama supporters, and stop telling us all the lie, that obama deserves the nomination because he has more votes--look at the electoral map, how many more people voted for clinton, as she won the big population states where the democratic party was born and lives.

we had enough fuzzy math from george bush, we don't need fuzzy math from obama!

[darcy]

endymion, so very right! bushies and obama-ites seem more alike as the weeks go by.

[moevaughn]

quiz time:

Who said, "I'm a uniter; not a divider"?

(a) Barack Obama
(b) George W. Bush
(c) both of the above
(d) neither of the above

[TommyMcCarthy]

Thank you for this post......while this situation is actually deadly serious......there is a delicious irony here that I can't help but be tickled by......

Because of his assiciation with Sen. Obama's campaign, Rep. Jackson most comically finds himself in the position of having to argue FOR the disenfrachiment of the voters in two of our LARGEST and MOST REPRESENTATIVE states.

In his own words,.."First.....the rules...." THE RULES!?

LET'S SEE A SHOW OF HANDS...,......How many believe...that if the contested results favored Sen. Obama, Mr. Jackson would be thundering ......
"Rules be damned!! We will not stand idly by while the DNC attempts to disenfranchise the fine people of the states of Florida and Michigan, in a CYNICAL ploy to blah, blah, etc., etc......"
(Those of you without your hands raised are either lying or asleep)

Rep. Jackson asserts that said rules were necessary ..."to prevent the 2008 nominating process from falling into chaos"...... To PREVENT chaos in the process!! Has anyone but me found the process pretty chaotic so far?
Just once more.......SHOW OF HANDS........How many believe that this business of stripping Mich. and Florida delegates,,,then holding primaries ANYWAY....has introduced more confusion, acrimony and discord,...in a word CHAOS...than has been seen in the last TEN election cycles?
(Hands in your lap?...WAKE UP!.... You're lying again!....)

Rep. Jackson says this process was "painstakingly worked out for the very purpose of increasing early voter diversity"....because..."most Democrats agreed that more Latinos and African-Americans should be added to the early-voting equation."

I couldn't agree more! Need I point out that both Florida and Michigan ...(you know.....those states whose votes must be IGNORED in the name of "diversity").........are among the largest and MOST DIVERSE in the union??...
Michigan, for example, has one of the nation's largest majority African-American urban centers.....and Florida has more Latinos in ONE COUNTY than Nev., Iowa, N.H. and S.C. COMBINED!!

If this weren't so serious it would be hysterical! "The DNC rules-bylaws committee gave both states a full and fair hearing..."
Yup!......Right there in my copy of the constitution it says ..... "Every fourth year, THE DNC RULES-BYLAWS COMMITTEE shall administer a free and fair election......" Well, no, not really.

And speking of said committee.....talk about a "tin ear"! After what happened in 2000...no matter WHAT....whoever thought it was a good idea to disenfranchise and NEGATE the votes of Florida citizens AGAIN.... (Democrats,no less).... should be forced to walk the plank, or maybe fetch coffee for Bill O'Rielly for a year!!

There are currently quite a number of proposals afloat on how to remedy this ridiculous situation.
Let's see ..show of hands....no, just kidding...no need to get into THAT here.

If we Democrats really go through with IGNORING the voters in two of our largest and most representative states....we will PROVE that we are stupider and more delusional than the Republicans say we are,..and we will have four long years under President McCain to reflect on our own folly...and quite deservedly so. Regards....................................................................................tm

[jwsub28]

Take your medication and lie down, we have to follow the rules and they were agreed upon by both candidates. Only one is making an issue of it... geez are we getting nervous. take the meds quick.

[PrairieDog]

Last night on Chris Mathews’“Softball” Terry McAuliffe (of Clinton’s campaign) kept talking over & over about playing by the rules with the insinuation that they may try to leverage superdelegates even if the elected delegates don’t go their way. The Clinton campaign is blaming everyone about the disenfranchising of those voters except the state parties whose arrogance led them to buck the national party so they could frontload their own states. Apparently playing by the rules only matters when it benefits your side. Last month Mr. Softball Mathews asked Clinton about an Obama release which pointed out that Clinton dissed the Mich & Fla votes during the Iowa campaign, the implication being that the didn’t count as long as it was uncertain who was ahead. Rather than answer the question Clinton gave one of those forced guffaws that SNL has parodied and then flimflammed around with a bunch of evasions until the show ran out of time. Shame on Mr. Softball for not holding HRC’s feet to the fire about wanting to have it both ways.

[BardEric]

Actions speak louder than words..HRC stayed on the MI ballot, BHO didn't....She must've thought that we counted more than he did, opr she would have taken the easy route and dropped off the ballot as well.

[greatbear451]

First of all, the votes in MI and FL are not being ignored in the name of diversity. Their delegates were not recognized because they broke the rules. Period.

Now, let's see a show of hands of people who believe that if the votes in those states had favored Obama (difficult, I know, since Obama honored the agreement to take his name off the MI ballot), you would be screaming: "It's Da rules! They broke da rules!"

This primary has been a mess for a lot of reasons, but the time to have addressed it was before the race began, not after the fact because you believe it will help your candidate.

My only hope is that this will finally convince the federal government to step in and institute a more sensible primary system.

[TommyMcCarthy]

Since you ask....You will never see my hand raised FOR the disenfranchisment of American citizens in any state.

The principle of "one man, one vote" ...in EVERY state transcends " 'da rules" ...of ANY arbitrarily appointed committee...be it the DNC, the RNC, or the H I J K elemenopee.
My argument would be the same no matter which candidate might be affected, as it would be if the states in question were Guam and Wyoming.

I raise the issue of increased diversity only in response to Rep. Jackson's assertion above (correct, as far as it goes) that this was the intent of the shuffling of the early primary schedule....hence the INCREASED irony of disenfranchising Fla. and Mich..

You may not have noticed that I did not suggest any particular formula for remedying the situation.........It's clear that a solution can be devised that is equitable to both candidates,.......My concern is for the rights of the VOTERS in these two states.

The proposed disenfranchisement of the voters of Michigan and particularly Florida, yet AGAIN (more irony) ....is not only flat WRONG in principle,......it is self-defeating LUNACY for a Democratic party ostensibly hoping to craft a winning strategy for the general election in November.

Thanks for your response. Regards.................................................................................tm

[RedRooster]

On Unintended Consequences...

Having already voted in a state which followed party rules, I am a bit put-off by all the posturing over this matter. Oh sure, I wish Virginia's open Democratic primary were held before Iowa's ridiculously arcane caucus, but until the rules committee adopts a rotating primary schedule more fair to the rest of the country, we here in the Old Dominion, will play by the rules...which incidentally, worked out well this year in our first-ever regional DC-MD-VA "Potomac Primary".

For whatever reason, MI and FL VIOLATED the rules. In spite of being forewarned, elected officials in MI and FL attempted to game the system by cheating and now they must accept the consequences of their actions...which probably means paying for new primaries sometime before the convention if they want any of their delegates seated.

To be clear, I WANT MI and FL Democratic voices to be heard, but small-minded politicians in their states silenced them. MI and FL elected officials wanted to have an important role in choosing the next president - well now's their chance...to go LAST!

[madfloridian]

So how does those "elected officials" pay? Who is being penalized--not the officials but the VOTERS of Florida.

How can you suggest that voting rights are so disposable. If you were a democrat living in Florida, what would you do?

I will vote in November to oust any republican I can--but I will not vote in the national election for either candidate. They both participated in what happened and left me and almost 2 million other democrats in this state the victims of posturing by a Republican legislature.

[moevaughn]

I live in NH and my vote counted even though my state also broke DNC rule 11A. That's not getting much attention in the press though. We broke the same rule, but all our votes count.

I support you Floridians, and I will not be giving the Dem Party another dime until you are re-enfranchised.

[jwsub28]

Hillary,

WE need to see your TAX returns, can you not afford an accountant or something? Let us see what is happening , we the american people deserve to know what is going on before electing someone for president. It is not 3:AM , you have the time don't you???? TAX RETURNS HILLARY, WE ARE HOLDING OUR BREATH. OBAMA HAS ALREADY SHOWED US HIS.
I THINK YOUR 3:00 AM IS SO TYPICAL OF THE CLINTON DIRTY SHIT YOU WILL PLAY, YOU HAVE SO MUCH BAGGAGE IN YOUR CLOSET. NOW YOU HAVE BROUGHT A DECENT MAN LIKE OBAMA IN THE DIRT HE WILL HAVE TO PLAY DIRTY WITH YOU. LOOK OUT HILLARY YOU HAVE SOME DIRT IN YOUR CLOSET. ITS 3:00AM, WHERE IS BILL?????

[moevaughn]

Barack,

Why haven't you released and made public your Rezko files? We're still waiting...............

[kat7]

Where are your medical reports, Obama?

You do not look a fit man after Super Tuesday II.

[Stellaa]

JJ Jr, why are you crying about Fl and Michigan, you should be crying about the Katrina victims if you have tears. You lost all your credibility when you spewed those comments.

[TheJibreelaMonsters]

How dose a hurricane makes you helpless to do something for yourself?

[TheJibreelaMonsters]

Michigan in the biggest one state recession in the U.S. Governor Jennifer is going to try to hold another election to shore up her position with HRC. The Dem. party had their chance here. Play by you own rules kids. Stop whining. On Charlie Crist being a Democrat in Republican clothing (RINO). Nobody likes him. 70% Approval? If you only ask Democrats and welfare recipients! I didn’t vote for him in the primary. He is a one term governor and he knows it. Where is Jeb when you need him? The best Bush of the lot, one true conservative. Just wait until he takes our hard earned tax dollars and spends it to help Hillary get elected. Tar and feathers will be far too good for him.

However she would be a lot better than Obama

[TheJibreelaMonsters]

The parent (DNC) tells the child (State Party) if they break the rules they will be punished. They break the rules anyway and the parent is now negotiating how to let them get away with it. That is why this is the party of spoiled brats that can’t be trusted to intact anything and stick to it. They can be trusted to say anything and change their minds later. Remember that when listening to their campaign promises. They will do what all democrats do which is to try to buy your vote by promising you a “treat”.

[BillLumbergh]

Unlike say, the GOP, which has been handing out 'treats' to undeserving parasites since the 'Contract on America'.
How's the kool-aid?

[apishapa]

South Carolina broke the rules. New Hampshire broke the rules. They were not kept from voting. Two relatively small states were allowed to move their primaries forward after DNC started the ball rolling by moving Nevada up. But when a big state like Florida or Michigan tries to have a say in the nominating process, then rules become more important. We cannot have a large, diverse population state or a heavily union state selecting our candidate.

But, if Obama had had the sense to just leave his name on the ballot and if he had won those primaries, Obama sppoerter Jesse Jackson would be a little more cocerned about disenfranchising voters in big states. I'm from a relatively small state (Colorado) but I d onot believe that primarily rrural, mostly republican states should have the biggest impact on selecting the democratic candidates.

[loria]

apishapa,
NH has had an early primary for years. The early primaries in SC and NV were set so that minorities (AA in SC, Latinos and unions in NV) would have a voice. The large states have plenty of say in the general election because of their huge number of electoral votes. The small states have little to no say. I wish people would educate themselves before posting. To say SC and NH broke the rules shows you are ignorant of the rules of the primaries.


If there hadn't been an agreement with the DNC Obama would have campained in those states. He would have opened campaign office and there would have been a force of volunteers making calls and canvassing. He might not have won, but it would have been fair. Obama has approached this campaign with a 50 state strategy and he is winning because of it. He went to all of the states, even states that had largely been ignored by democrats in the past. Unlike you I think that all states should have a say in the primary. The large states shouldn't have greater weight than the small states. Each has unique issues and strengths that are brought to the table. Why would we rely on TX, CA, NY, FL, to chose for the rest of us? I have lived in all of those states except NY and not one is like the other, nor are they anything like the small state I live in now. The idea put forth that large states matter more is a myth from the Clinton campaign. Her winning strategy ignored states and she paid for it. I don't know if it's true but I have heard that the campaign had huge Dunkin Donut bills in Iowa. I volunteered in SC where the Obama campaign spent little money for signs to go by the side of the road preferring instead to open campaign offices in June when the other campaigns opened their offices in October. Obama has managed a very effective campaign that includes large and small states. He is ahead by more than 130 delegates and Hillary can't catch up unless she gets the support of SD's. She needs to be ashamed of how she is fueling the flames on the FL and MI issues. The DNC may have come up with a way to seat the delegates that worked for all involved without changing the course of the election. However, she has convinced voters that they are being disenfranchised by Obama, which isn't true. The issue is between them and their state party. Obama simply played by the rules her campaigned agreed to. I can't even imagine her mocking tone if the stituation were reversed. I can hear her saying. . . Senator Obama thinks he can simply change the rules in the middle to suit his needs. He's not concerned about the voters of Michigan and Florida, he just wants to win and will do anything to make it happen. Well, we will not let that happen. Shame on you.

[moevaughn]

Yes, and IA also broke the same rule.

[madfloridian]

Read the history of what happened in Florida if you would like to be informed. If not, just carry on with your name calling and stereotyping.

The DNC is holding democrats hostage because of the Republican Florida Legislature set the election dates and did so in a manner that broke a Democratic party rule. Wow, big surprise. This is a clash of the titans that victimizes Florida voters. The central issue are related to voter rights and to the policies of a national party that has decided to subvert those rights. This decision cannot be defended on any principle of democracy. This is only a big issue because the election is too close. If this had been handled by recognizing that national political parties do not control state law or fund state elections, the issue would have been decided in August.

[TheJibreelaMonsters]

Ya can't blame President Bush for this debacle.

[marykins123]

On the question of seating Delegates from MI and FL at the Convention in August. Yes, they should be seated, BUT, they did not follow the rules set forth by the DNC. Therefore, a new primary should be held in both states, held on the same date, and they must be scheduled AFTER Montana and South Dakota's June 3rd 'scheduled' primaries.

[sef2121]

Florida should absolutely count as all candidate's names were on the ballot. As an HRC supporter, I am fine with splitting Michigan 50/50 or having a re-vote as Obama and Edwards removed their names. Fine. However, Florida Dems were told with a wink that their votes wouldn't count and MANY of them voted, due also to some housing-related vote also on the ballot. Floridians expected their vote to eventually count. I am sure that if Obama had won, this article would never exist, and the tables would be turned. His name was on the ballot, and people overwhelmingly chose Clinton. Does the DNC really want to annoy Florida Dems before the election? And with all this "sticking to the rules" stuff coming from the Obama camp, why don't they stick to the rules and let the superdelegates pick whomever they want? Stop telling the supers to vote with their district-it is not their role! The issues of superdelegates, undemocratic caucuses that effectively disenfranchise people who work at night or who don't have hours out of the day to caucus (single moms anyone?) and the issue of WHY the DNC continues to obsess over keeping Iowa and NH as the first states, is a mystery to me. The issues need to be taken up with the DNC, not the candidates. I am proud to be a Democrat, but I much say, the DNC needs to thoroughly re-examine the primary process. Why should a few thousand caucus votes in Texas count for one third of the delegates when over two million people voted in the primary and they only get a portion of the remaining fraction? This makes no sense! I wish that we could follow the lead of other countries on this one and just all vote on Feb 5th in the primary, whoever wins the popular vote is the candidate. This flawed process does nothing but hurt the party, and the caucuses are just undemocratic and discriminatory.

[madfloridian]

Great points. Thanks

[BardEric]

I agree with most of your points, but why should Obama even be entitled to half our MI delegates? He chose to remove his name from the ballot, and voluntarily took his name out of the running in our state. No,I would rather have a re-do primary in our state. (If we could figure out where to find the funding that is , our state is in a serious finacial crunch, and our basic services are at risk..Last spring we almost had a government shut-down over our finacial woes )Barack would be toast the second HRC brought up the question of why he abandoned us. But I say bring it on, we would love to hand BHO's butt to him on a platter,; just like our fellow Ohio citizens just did...

[ME08]

I am sorry to see you make this argument...it doesn't hold water...Michigan and Florida voters were told their vote wouldn't count, yet they turned out in large numbers and chose Hillary Clinton...they could have done like Obama and Edwards supporters wanted them to do, and remain uncommited...but the voters would have none of that nonsense. They spoke loudly and forcefully, like the voters of Ohio and Rhode Island, for her. It may not be convenient for Obama supporters, but there are no do overs for Michigan and Florida, the standing vote counts of those who actually voted should be counted, not any redone totals. That's how it is...Obama supporters may not like it, but they have the Governors of Florida and Michigan to blame for thwarting specific rules...rules are made for a reason, and it is too late to redo what has been done. The Michigan and Florida delegates are Hillary's, no matter what Obama fans say or want. End of discussion.

[Duffs]

I can kind of see how FL could possibly be twisted into maybe being some semblance of "fair," but not MI. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot. If Hillary wanted to seat those delegates then she shouldn't have had her campaign adviser Ickes VOTE to strip them. If she wants to seat them now then they need a do-over vote in at least MI, but Hillary doesn't want that, she knows she'll get clobbered when they find out she opposes the idea of a fair primary and/or caucus.

Hillary has lost the popular vote even if you count Florida, Hillary cannot win the delegate race even if you count FL and MI, and she frankly has no integrity left to fall back on. Hillary Clinton has lost. End of discussion.

[BARRISTER]

MEo8:
Whatever happened to "count all the votes"?

It is sad but quite revealing when people like Jackson make these spurious and specious arguments.

The Voters of Florida, or which I am one, did not break any rules. It is the REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR who legislated the Primary date. Why should we voters be punished for their act?

On behalf of all Floridians, let me WARN the Democrats: if our already cast votes are not "counted" by the seating of our delegates without a further vote, come November WE SHALL STAY HOME!! FULL STOP.

So, if you guys and gals want Crooked McCain as your President, deny our Delegates their seats. We have already spoken at the polls. We wioll not be treated like children and made to repeat our votes.

Enough said!

"A word to the wise...."

[madfloridian]

AMEN.

[selome0124]

because you voted for your Governor. Whom you should impeach for what he did.

Why is everyone acting brand new towards this situation? as though it emerged over night??? Hillary won two states and now people want FL and MI...FL and MI stop voicing your so called concern a month later....
And I'm actually disappointed in DNC (for an array of reasons but particularly) for letting it get this far and then saying that they should reconsider the votes of FL and MI. They should have never been this harsh in the first place...and once such a decision is made they should back out because they just lose credibility. To me it just shows who they are really supporting in this primary and it's disheartening how they aren't even trying to hide it.

[StillAmused]

"We must not allow the uncontested primaries in Florida and Michigan to "nullify" the will of the large mass of voters in all of the hotly-contested primaries and caucuses around the country where the candidates did campaign..."

Yeah... what's a couple of missing states in a national election, anyway!

Hey, we already cut loose New Orleans and the Gulf region when THEY became "inconvenient"... why not Florida and Michigan, too? What the hell do they know...

"Senator Obama will reach out to the voters in Florida and Michigan as the presidential nominee of our Party..."

Mother Nature doesn't LIKE it when you count your chickens before they're hatched.