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Rev. G. Douglas Fenton

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Christian Conversations About Sexuality Must Not Stop

Posted: 11/02/10 08:15 PM ET

Sept. 22, 2010 -- It was a day that opened up a conversation that must not stop. It was the day that Tyler Clementi, a freshman at Rutgers University in New Jersey, jumped from the George Washington Bridge in New York to the dark depths of the Hudson River below.

Tyler is one of the most recent young people in a tragic story that seems unwilling to end. Is our attention to the matter of bullying heightened momentarily with the help of the media? Ellen DeGeneres posted an emotional and compassionate YouTube video. CNN's Anderson Cooper ran a series on bullying and its consequences. The program was laden with pundits and real life students suggesting the cause, effect and helplessness friends, parents and institutions experience in what is being labeled a crisis. Every several days, local and national newspapers provide coverage of another bullying attack. Bloggers seem unable to stop discussing the issue. And the story is multi-layered including cyber-bullying, sexual orientation and the current place of social media and instant information.

So, what is it about the Tyler Clementi story that caused the hype? Like many of those who recently took their life after constant bullying and intimidation, Tyler was a well-liked student. An accomplished 18-year-old freshman music student, he was described as being quiet and shy. Yet, unlike the many others, it wasn't only that Tyler was thought to be gay -- his most intimate life was exposed on-line for all the world to see, to judge and to offer comment.

Yet, institutions of higher learning want to create environments of diversity where students from varying socioeconomic levels, race and ethnicity, foreign countries and the LGBTQ community can come together. In a recent essay, Kristy Almeida-Neveu underlines how gay students must be understood in the context of recruitment and knowing that a central question the student will have is "Will I be accepted on your campus?" (p B38, The Chronicle of Higher Education, September 24, 2010) She goes on to advise that "Well-intended staff members at risky institutions need to think of students' safety before trying to encourage them to apply or enroll." A further question might be asked: How is risk assessed?

The founding principle of colleges and universities is built on knowledge and discourse leading to new discoveries and the advancement of society. Should they not be some of the safest places to test out questions, even questions of personal identity? Campus chaplains and student counseling services can provide sanctuary for such conversation but it takes the entire academy to create a place where all can feel safe.

It's time for the media coverage to turn to prevention of cyber-bullying instead of the (sadly) countless examples of it. It's time for high schools and colleges and universities -- their faculty, staff, students, campus ministries, housing offices and all associated -- to join together and take a more pro-active and responsible position by establishing community norms where all questions can be explored including questions of sexual orientation in an open, accepting and non-judgmental environment. Let us not have anymore tragedies like Tyler Clementi.

The Rev. G. Douglas Fenton is the Young Adult & Campus Ministries Officer for The Episcopal Church. As such, he spends a lot of time with young people and college students, talking with them and recognizing the issues that group faces daily.

 
Sept. 22, 2010 -- It was a day that opened up a conversation that must not stop. It was the day that Tyler Clementi, a freshman at Rutgers University in New Jersey, jumped from the George Washington ...
Sept. 22, 2010 -- It was a day that opened up a conversation that must not stop. It was the day that Tyler Clementi, a freshman at Rutgers University in New Jersey, jumped from the George Washington ...
 
 
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11:17 AM on 11/11/2010
Seriously? Most of the posters here think ALL Christians are taught that homosexuality is wrong?
When you are commenting on a thoughtful, caring article by an Episcopalian priest? Apparently many Americans are as ignorant about Christianity as we are of Islam. Both religions have a fundamentalist element, but I can attest to the fact that there is a strong progressive element in many mainstream Christian Churches. As the church was a key player in opposing slavery, so it has an important role in opposing oppression of people for their God-given sexual preference. Bishop Spong, for one, has stated that Christianity must evolve or die. I am sorry that the ignorant want to see us die, but some of us prefer to continue to evolve!
11:09 AM on 11/08/2010
I don't want to hear about sexuality from a bunch of repressed people who hold positions based upon superstitious beliefs.

They have nothing positive to say and nothing productive to contribute.

If they want to discuss sex, then they must first drop the superstitions and jump into the reality of the situation.
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gnosius
09:40 PM on 11/07/2010
Nice title! Now, what about starting your "Christian conversation" with admitting that in the Bible (Old Testament) the crazy, vengeful god tell us that we should kill homosexuals? Right away you would acknowledge religion is founded on irrational, on absurd and the next topic on your list of "conversations", as good Christians, should be: how do we once and forever get rid of religion. There are Christian denominations that do not even mention the word "Bible" anymore and use the "Gospel" instead, in reference to the New Testament, as if that would made more sense. Religion people claim some kind of superior status when it comes to morals. However, look at the crimes committed by church, mosque and synagogue people along the time, to the hundreds of thousands of children abused by priests, rabbis and mullahs all over the world, as we speak, and you will see that there is no other institution more corrupted than the institution of religion. Hollywood is a sweet, innocent child compared to them. Once we admit that, once we dismantle these corrupted and immoral bastion of insanity, we will no longer have these kind of tragedies.
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06:33 AM on 11/07/2010
Christians do not hate homosexuals, yet they disagree with them on how they see homosexuality.

I personally think that homosexuality is much like anorexia. Do I hate anorexics? of course not. Yet, i see parallels.

It is extremely difficult to convince an anorexic of the reality of their world...It is the same with homosexuality. Is anorexia genetic? not likely. Can we show that with identical twins, if one gets anorexia, the other must as well? no. Even identical twins have some differing DNA...but what is the probability that we would find the genetic difference in that very small portion where the DNA differs. Unlikely.

Am I going to be blamed for the suicide of an anorexic (who has been exposed by a prankster) because i do not accept their condition as normal ?
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lazerhaze
Equality is not a dirty word
11:13 AM on 11/07/2010
Homosexuals do not hate Christians, yet they disagree with them on how they see homosexuality.

I personally think that Christianity is much like mental illness. Do I hate the mentally ill? of course not. Yet, i see parallels.

It is extremely difficult to convince the mentally ill of the reality of their world...It is the same with Christianity.

Is Religion akin to mental illness? very likely. Can we show that with religious people and mentally ill people both believe as fact things that can not be proven to be real. Yes.
The mentally ill can undergo treatment and take medicines to help control their delusions. Treatment and medicines increase the well being and general mental health of the mentally ill. Should the mentally ill get treatment for their condition? Yes. It benefits themselves and society. Will religious people get treatment for what is clearly delusional thought and beliefs systems? Unlikely.

Am I going to be called a religious bigot because i do not accept that religious beliefs systems and think that those who accept them as truth are delusional? Most likely.
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Bob Wood
A.T.C.G...(sigh)
04:03 PM on 11/07/2010
I just had to Fan & Fave you for this one ! Turn about is definitely fair play...well done lazrehaze...(sigh)
04:11 PM on 11/07/2010
"Religion akin to mental illness? very likely."

Really!? Here are six abiding principles of the Christian religion, can you name any non religious principles that are even in the same league?

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
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Bob Kellerman
Let's have more sanity toward each other
11:15 PM on 11/06/2010
LOVELY, BUT...............................

Let's use the example of the mormons.
Just after 6 of the suicides, their #2 guy gave this speech, likely in reaction to tremendous criticism for the millions spent on defaming Gay marriage in California and elsewhere.
Top LDS 'Apostle' Boyd K. Packer: Mormons will always oppose Satan's counterfeit marriages
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDceBHOgm6A

BAAAAAAAAAAAAD REACTION out in the world and from decent mormons,
So they come back with "nice" platitudes from more attractive spokespersons
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/26/mormon-leader-weighs-in-o_n_774326.html

ALL SO THEY DON'T LOOK BAD AND LOSE TITHES AND MEMBERS, in my opinion

AS LONG AS CHURCHES SEE GAYS AS UNFORTUNATE SINNERS (or evil, destructive, subversive, sinners, in some churches)
THEY ARE ENCOURAGING BULLYING & SUICIDES --- you cannot teach kids that a class of people are less than they are and need to be taught "what God wants for them" and not be putting in the seed for violence

If Little Billy Mormon is taught not to hate Little Joey Mormon (who is not a "regular boy"), but to help him see that he lets down his family in the afterlife by acting on his Gayness..........
You KNOW there is going to be looking down going on.
11:54 PM on 11/06/2010
You know no one in your circle of friends or family that has made as series of bad decisions, decisions you thought were bad and even told them so but they made them anyway. Do you love them any less? Even if they were screaming you "hated them!" because you told them the truth as you saw it, would that mean you love them less?

If it is hard for you to conceive of how a heart filled with the love & grace of God could speak what they believed was the truth even if it was a hard and tough truth that is an inadequacy that lies in you.
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Bob Wood
A.T.C.G...(sigh)
03:57 PM on 11/07/2010
Of course you're right...except that the "truth" they believe is wrong...was wrong...gonna be wrong...until reason replaces dogma, ancient mythology and superstition. Sex is normal in all it's manifestations. Sex is biochemical. Sex isn't evil or sinful. Reason is the solution in the 21st century. Ancient mythology and superstition is more harmful than helpful...(sigh)
11:08 AM on 11/08/2010
A person's sexuality is not a decision.
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Dunkleberger Karl
Historian,Humanitarian,Hedonist.
01:01 AM on 11/07/2010
Time to tell the 14year old who thinks they might be gay , or Bi, or shoe fetish, or likes to Read the New york times to keep it to them selves until High school Graduation week! The bigots will never be stoped , you know what gets stoped ? Childrens Hearts! I know kids want to share ..............but even the most Liberal school in Boston has these Meat Head Bigots! At least in College You have a chance!These monsters will crush your spirit , and break your legs! Look at that transit cop in Oakland 2 years for shooting a youth in handcuffs, because he was taking back to an officer? Not even enough of an offense to use a tazer! a 2lb tazer felt the same as a 7 lb Glock? Hate is Bad , but feeding the fire of Hatread with the corpes of our children to make a point for tomarrows children ,... is jst stupid as can be!
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colamonkey
My micro-bio contains this sentence.
12:07 PM on 11/06/2010
Religion is the reason why society hates gay people so much. The responsibility is on the relgious to stop their campaign of hate against gay folks.
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DannyEVillage
04:06 PM on 11/06/2010
well--that is certainly true but doesn't go far enough. Are most people in America churchgoers? I don't think so; but be that as it may, it's incumbent upon religious institutions to REDRESS the wrong of perpetrating and disseminating hatred. Simply to stop saying hateful, hurtful things is not good enough. They have to put it out there that what they've said for so long was WRONG. Just like the church had to bite the bullet on Galileo, on the Inquisition, on psychiatry and the social sciences...the list is long.
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colamonkey
My micro-bio contains this sentence.
09:06 AM on 11/07/2010
If they did that those institutions wouldn't exist anymore. I'd be perfectly happy with that (I'm an atheist), but them actually ever admitting wrong is a pipe dream.
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colamonkey
My micro-bio contains this sentence.
09:08 AM on 11/07/2010
Scratch everything after the 'but'. I'm tired...let me rephrase.

I seriously doubt they (meaning the religious) would ever admit wrongdoing.
10:01 PM on 11/06/2010
Bad character is why some in society hate gay people so much. Mainstream religious values are framed within the parameters of a loving & just God. That some followers express those values outside that frame is the responsibility of the individual follower. If an individual ran a red light would you hold the State responsible for that infraction? You would hold the driver solely responsible, after all the State properly framed the rules to be just & fair. Religion organizes and codifies moral "rules of the road" for both the individual and the general good within the framework of love & justice.

A few enforce those rules outside that framework of love & justice and they rightly deserve our condemnation, BUT their bad acts don't invalidate the rules and some are using those bad acts to justify their rejection of the "rules". They secretly like those who dirty the water because it makes it easier to throw the baby out.
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colamonkey
My micro-bio contains this sentence.
09:03 AM on 11/07/2010
You can't argue that when religious leaders actively preach hate.
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DannyEVillage
09:50 AM on 11/07/2010
"Bad character"?? Are you suggesting that gay people have or should have or may have a reputation for "bad character" more than other groups?

Surely you've noticed that the politicians and "religious figures" who rant the loudest about the "bad behavior" of gay men are the ones constantly getting caught with their pants down in the very situations they rant against?

so what's this about "bad character"?

One other thing: Jesus evidently cautioned strongly against judging. It sounds to me like you aren't quite as interested in that advice as you are in "condemnation."
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Bob Wood
A.T.C.G...(sigh)
01:14 PM on 11/05/2010
Reasonable, rational conversations about sex need to take place unquestionably. It would be good to dispense with the attitudes toward sexuality supported by ancient texts of mythology and superstion. In the 21st century we need to recognize that sex is normal in all it's manifestations. Sex is biochemical. Sex is not evil or sinful. Sex should be taught to children when they are old enough to have curiosity. They should be taught that sex is one of the most powerful of human urges and that it needs to be managed. Sex is healthy, fun and procreative...(sigh)
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Matt Longpre
Adolescent Quintessence
01:20 AM on 11/06/2010
Very well said, dogma is hardly the right approach to heightened social issues. The religions of today need to recognize that there is a tomorrow, and that there will be challenges that cannot be met with the same stubborn attitudes. We've grown quite a bit from the abstinent chastising environment of the 50s, and we don't plan on turning back to the not so good ol' days.If we're going to be a civilized society, we better start acting like it.
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Bob Wood
A.T.C.G...(sigh)
03:59 PM on 11/06/2010
What's scary Matt, is that 44% of Americans believe that the Earh is less than 10,000 years old, that humans walked the planet with dinosaurs and that all life was saved, 2x2, on a big boat from a worldwide flood. Hard to imagine what these folks will demand...and they're being elected to public office, sit on school boards, and worse...teach. If we can't enlighten these people...we have a good chance of becoming a third world theocracy...(sigh)
08:56 PM on 11/09/2010
That's not what religion is though. You can't just change it because you don't like it. It might be likened to saying that you are going to change the laws against killing people because you think that the law is outdated... that makes absolutely no sense. Time shouldn't change whether you think of something as right or wrong, reasoning should. Just because it is "old fashioned" doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Stokes
09:46 AM on 11/05/2010
(inspired to write)
To heal a mind that has tended to surmise tragic consequences will not be favored by the majority of believers in the Word. Their mindset has been to trivialize the remainder of the contents of the Word. "Tragedy is not to be expected, say they, for we are living in a prosperous environment." Many have forseen the eclipse as once having occurred. It is no small matter to remind civilization that they exist only as a result of lust, egoism and greed. These faults must be expressed and reckoned with, if one is to pursue a life of inner peace. Endeavor to substantiate this by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit within.
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12:40 AM on 11/05/2010
America will not ever go after bullies in an effective, drastic way. Too many Americans
secretly like bullies, are bullies, in a country that itself is more and more perceived
as a bully. There is an entrenched superstition that the bully is an indispensable
shaman in rites of passage, and to the extent that bullying is protected, tolerated,
secretly admired even, the door remains open for mob action, the bully convention
that frequently kills while shielding individuals in the anonymity of numbers.

Bullies need to be understood. But first, a lot of them have to be arrested, convicted
and sent up the river for long sentences. That will change the climate.
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04:14 PM on 11/04/2010
No one is reponsible for a suicide but the person who did the killing. Kids kill themselves often and being gay is one of many reasons. It is sad when they do die so young but who is at fault. The school, the family or the church they don't attend? '

Christians are taught to be true to themselves as well as to God. Taking responsibility for their own sins and shortcomings. Blaming another for your own failures is not healty and leads to many problems in your life. If you can not come out because of the shame you feel then wouldn't it be healthy to ask yourself is this feeling of shame because of what others think or what you feel about this issue? If you believe it is a healthy normal expression of the human condition then why do you need anyones approval.

Many times in life you will face decisions that require you to make hard choices. If you need approval to make a hard choice you will be very unhappy with your life. Are you sure enough of your choices to move on and let the chips fall as they may? If not then you should not put yourself in this position. Sexual activity by adolescents isn't without mental health risks. That is why most parents want their children to go slow and grow to adulthood before they plunge into the gene pool.
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Bill J4321
05:41 PM on 11/04/2010
"No one is reponsible for a suicide but the person who did the killing."

I do not believe you could have come up with a more false statement even if you tried really, really hard. You clearly have only viewed this from the comfort of the box which you appear to live under.
05:51 PM on 11/04/2010
It is totally ridiculous to state that "no one is responsible for a suicide but the person who did the killing". Of course other people can be responsible for driving vulnerable people to believe that there is no future for them. The range of circumstances that could lead to a suicide are so varied. What failure should Tyler Clementi have blamed himself for? What sin or shortcoming did he demonstrate to that he should have "taken responsibility" for? All I can see is that he didn't suspect his roommates were so unpleasant.
01:28 PM on 11/10/2010
'It is totally ridiculous to state that "no one is responsible for a suicide but the person who did the killing". Of course other people can be responsible for driving vulnerable people to believe that there is no future for them.'

---Why is it ridiculous? I was bullied in high school. In fact I was bullied on my last job. Yet I am still alive as of this moment. I am sure I can speak for many who have been bullied in saying that it is up to you if you allow someone else to dictate your life and how you are going to behave.
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Bill J4321
11:35 AM on 11/04/2010
I do not understand how society can expect its children to stop their brutal, uncivilized treatment of gay citizens, when most heterosexual ADULTS are just as brutal and uncivilized to gay citizens.

Isn't something backwards here???
10:19 PM on 11/03/2010
Mainstream religion has yet to restore itself as voice of equality and tolerance. It was highjacked in 1980, and the world has suffered ever since.
10:32 PM on 11/03/2010
(1980 B.C.?)
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DannyEVillage
04:37 PM on 11/06/2010
uh...where do you get the figure, "1980"? This has been a mean country for a long time. Just ask any gay person over 50 years old.
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lcr999
scientist
12:30 AM on 11/08/2010
In the 50s and 60s the Church was a leader in the equal rights movement, at least in most of the country. Some time in the 70s, the sex police took over and made abortion the primary target, along with anything else sexual.
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Weirdo
"It's a Wall Street government"
09:21 PM on 11/03/2010
Let us not have anymore tragedies like Tyler Clementi.

Let us, then, address unequivocally the bigotry toward homosexuality in the Bible. The supposed word of god directs that homosexuals be treated with contempt. Do any of these ministers currently arguing against bullying have the courage to disagree with their holy book about the morality of homosexuality?
10:35 PM on 11/03/2010
A: No. I don't understand how adultry, which is actually listed as a no no in the Ten Commandments, isn't anywhere near as demonized by the religious right as homosexuality is.
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fjg
a jolly good fellow
12:09 AM on 11/04/2010
Quite simple, actually. If the pastor would sermonize against infidelity, the pews (and, more importantly, the collection plates) would empty.
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11:02 AM on 11/07/2010
Where in the Bible does it say that people are supposed to treat homosexuals with contempt? I'm a Christian and have several gay friends. My religion tells me that it is wrong, but the same religion says to not judge and love your enemies. I know there are some whackjob preachers out there, but nowhere in the Bible does it say to walk up and flat out ridicule homosexuals.
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CraigR
Born okay the first time
05:06 PM on 11/08/2010
Uhh....the Bible says they are to be killed:
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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08:22 PM on 11/03/2010
The group does not want to hear what we think. All is fine if we agree to the alternative sexual proclivities that violate what we believe is God's law on this issue. For me,

God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. When the word of God was brought forward for men to know the mind of God we learned that our ways are not his ways. We are fortunate that we have been given the word to know what God expects from believers. We men are not able to know the depth of our God but we do know He is a loving God and wants all to know they need Him. Without God I am lost.

God loves all and wants us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Easier said than done. But we also are told not to throw pearls before swine lest they turn and trample us. All I can do is accept the gay neighbor as they are. I would not bring up sex, God or Jesus in their presence unless they brought it up.

In the end judgement is not mine. For as I am judged so will I be judged. My own standards will be the arbiter of my own judgement. That is why Jesus said Judge not so we could avoid judgement.
09:28 PM on 11/03/2010
the bible references homosexuality in the holiness code. this code condemns homosexuals, those who shave their beards, those who wear clothes made from two or more different kinds of cloth, and those who have commited other trivial, archaic "offenses" to death. and all in the same breath. If you think god really has such a strong opinion about human sexuality, you might consider throwing out your razor and your cotton-polyester underpants.
04:24 PM on 11/04/2010
Clothing, eating, and hair regulations are directed towards the Jews, Gentiles are exempt. Centuries ago Jews codified what they believed were universal moral laws in the "Noahide Laws", homosexual practice was considered a universal moral sin.

That is Bible 101, how did you make such an obvious mistake? If you got that very basic thing wrong what else are you missing?
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Weirdo
"It's a Wall Street government"
09:35 PM on 11/03/2010
How noble of you. I'm sure you'll get right into Heaven.
squat6971
59 *was* divine -- 60? not so much
04:05 PM on 11/03/2010
Hate to break it to you, Rev, but everyone else has been discussing this for the last 40 years or so.

It's time for the church(es) to wake up to their complicity in these crimes, after pushing their own brands of fire-and-brimstone for decades, demonizing the victims, and protecting the abusers.

A little late to be joining the "non-judgemental" majority, isn't it?
11:32 AM on 11/11/2010
This has been part of the discussion in the Episcopal church for the last 30 years or so that I am aware of, could be more. The progressives in the church, including clergy like the author, are not merely "non-judgmental" but activist on this issue. But you feel the need to demean him for this.