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Rev. Jonathan Weyer

Rev. Jonathan Weyer

Posted: February 12, 2011 09:42 PM

A Ministry of Dialoguing about Doubt


"You are such a doubting Thomas."

Many people have heard the phrase "Doubting Thomas" applied to them in a conversation with a radical believer. The conversation might go something like this, "I seriously doubt the Cubs will ever win the World Series in my lifetime." The fanatic Cub fan would reply, "You are such a doubting Thomas."

Few people realize the origin of this phrase is found in the Bible. Specifically, the phrase is a reference to the story found in John 20:20-29. Thomas is the last apostle to see the risen Jesus. He is questioning the sanity of his fellow apostles concerning their delusional stories about a bodily resurrected Jesus who had been crucified a week earlier.

St. Thomas has become something of a patron saint in the student group that I started at The Ohio State University. When I arrived on campus, I realized something: there seemed to be plenty of good Christian groups of all stripes on campus. I didn't feel I had anything to add.

I soon realized that a place did not exist for students to express honest doubt. Many groups had one or two nights dedicated to questions, but I felt we needed more than that. I decided to invite Christians, doubting Christians, agnostics and what I call Pirate Atheists into a discussion group that became known as The Thomas Society.

We covered every topic ranging from "Why does God Allow Suffering" to "Science versus Faith" in our discussions. This group of students carried their conversations from small groups into large settings. Students from all walks of faith (or nonfaith) began to honestly engage each other in real dialogue from their dorm rooms to a service project we all took to New Orleans.

While in New Orleans, we sat at Lafitte's Pirate Tavern on Bourbon Street on one particular night. Our group had just finished a long hard day of demolishing abandoned houses from hurricane Katrina. I asked all of them to share why they believed in God or why they didn't.

As I listened to their stories with the craziness of Bourbon Street passing by, I realized how all of their stories and questions could be encapsulated in St. Thomas' story. All of their questions about science, God, faith, suffering, justice and injustice could be summed up in Thomas' intellectual and emotional doubt.

Thomas asked for concrete proof of Jesus' resurrection, he essentially asked for intellectual proof. He needed tangible, real evidence. Contrary to popular belief, most people in the first century didn't believe people just rose from the dead.

There is also an element of emotional edge to Thomas' doubts. Thomas and the apostles had staked their entire lives on Jesus. They believed He would throw out the hated Romans and that they would be Jesus' right hand men. Such a belief ended cruelly and abruptly with each nail that was hammered into Jesus. Thomas and the apostles had every reason to believe they might be hunted down and given the same treatment. Their hopes for life had pretty much come to an end.

When conversations in our culture center on religious issues and doubt, false dichotomies are always given as the only choices. We are told that we doubt God out of the need for intellectual proof or we doubt God out of strong emotion. The Pirate Atheists (or the New Atheists as they are commonly known) would argue that much of their doubt comes from the intellectual side. On the other side, many Christians argue that these atheists are all just abused former church kids. If we hit their hearts, it's commonly thought, their intellect will follow.

As my students talked at that pirate tavern, I realize each of them had an endless knot of intellectual and emotional reasons wrapped up in their stories of heartache, struggle and severe questioning. These struggles often resulted in radically different conclusions, depending on who told the story.

This lesson taught me a lot about how we work as people. Our beliefs can't be boiled down into either purely intellectual or emotional categories. Belief is never that neat or clean. Our lives are never that segmented. We are a curious nexus point of the seen and unseen worlds. Jesus Himself recognizes this as he tells Thomas at the end of the story, "Blessed are those who don't see, but believe." This isn't a rebuke to Thomas, like many Christians think; rather, it's a profound recognition of our struggle to believe. Jesus blesses those who will walk the road of doubt with a full heart, open mind and a willingness to bow to the truth at the end.

Through my students, I realized that I would have been right there with Thomas asking for the same intellectual and emotional truths. I have realized that my search for truth must go deeper then the superficial answers given to us by our culture in the church and the culture as a whole. I realized that my search for the truth must answer my intellectual or emotional questions, otherwise, my search will never be satisfied.

 
 
 

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"You are such a doubting Thomas." Many people have heard the phrase "Doubting Thomas" applied to them in a conversation with a radical believer. The conversation might go something like this, "I seri...
"You are such a doubting Thomas." Many people have heard the phrase "Doubting Thomas" applied to them in a conversation with a radical believer. The conversation might go something like this, "I seri...
 
 
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07:10 AM on 02/18/2011
I have no doubt. My experience of me being me is created by my brain/body and when my brain/body dies my experience of me being me will die with it. I don't deny that the experience of me being me has this quality of soul-ness and I don't deny that the experience of me being me includes this sense of some agency beyond the me being me, but I can't deny, I have no doubt, that my experience of me being me will still die when the brain/body that is creating it dies. That said, I will also say that the experience of me being me is what really matters in life, rather than knowing what really exists. Knowing what really exists has no real importance except that it helps me get what I want. When I start depending on knowing what really exists to tell me what I should want, then I am an unhappy camper. So I live my life on the playing field in the irrational world of my experience, present to what I want because I want it. It's the only way my life has any integrity. I live as if I have a soul and a God. But I still have no doubt that my experience of me being me will die when the brain/body that is creating it dies.
DrSnuggles
You label me and I'll label you
09:56 AM on 02/15/2011
When it comes to religious inquiry, it seems like many people are trapped within a false dichotomy. There is an endless supply of fundamentalist believers who would say that you're either with them or against them; and the most vocal of atheists suggest that anyone who believes in something that is not empirically described are superstitious or plain stupid. These two groups produce an equal chilling effect on the vast majority of people, who are simply continuing down their own path.
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MagicManDoneIt
When facts are lacking. Just say...
05:36 AM on 02/15/2011
If Christians/religionists are spending so much time doubting, why do so few of them change their mind and become atheists? Some do, I know and am familiar with enough stories of this happening to know that it can occur. What I want to know is this: How many Christians/religious people ACTUALLY doubt the existence of their god? If they go throught that exercise, what about the process reinforces their belief? I think this gets to the heart of the article's point that people make decisions about their beliefs for many reasons. What I can't understand is why anyone would believe in something as ridiculous as the existence of a god.
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Cory111
Life is good...
05:53 PM on 02/19/2011
If Christians­/religioni­sts are spending so much time doubting, why do so few of them change their mind and become atheists?
Because it's cheaper then facing "Passing the Hat" every Sunday.
I might, just might have more compassion for the religious community if they would pay their fare share of our taxes.
thebigbike
ran away to be a cowboy
09:05 PM on 02/14/2011
that's nice, dear....
08:46 PM on 02/14/2011
Ahh yes, the Doubting Thomas of the "Reach forth your hand and touch my side and my hands, and see that it is I" episode of the gospels; which appearently came right after the, "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my God" episode. And believers wonder why some of us doubt.
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w84it
02:48 PM on 02/18/2011
Nice catch there! Seriously, how did I miss that one all these years???
08:14 PM on 02/18/2011
One must read the bible carefully, very carefully, and take notes.
08:38 PM on 02/14/2011
carrots and sticks, nothing new in the art and the bussiness of making sheeps. The good reverend is just another instrument of the propangada machine. Making "friends" of their unbelief, just making time to avoid what christian fear, the oblivion of their belief.
03:36 PM on 02/14/2011
Speaking as a atheist I appreciated this article. My only problem is I think many believers get wrapped up in the "new atheist" or "pirate atheist" as you like to call them (which I don't get right off the bat) as being a representation of the non-believing community as a whole. Just like it isn't fair to categorize all religious people as fundamentalists the same can be said about the non-believing community. Which should be pointed out makes up 15% of the US but only 1% of that 15% identify as atheist.
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Rev. Jonathan Weyer
06:06 PM on 02/14/2011
CollinJE, the pirate atheist is a reference to the FSM and pastafarians. Its not meant to be a slam.

Thanks for your comments! I'm really glad you liked the article.
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Forester
Foresters do it in the woods.
03:14 PM on 02/14/2011
If the Ezekial Wheel was actually an extraterrestrial vessel, would this not make the whole divine concept moot?

And what proof is there that the OT prophesies were not cherry picked and altered to validate John and Jesus?
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Rev. Jonathan Weyer
03:18 PM on 02/14/2011
Ummm, well, as for the ET possibility, if they exist, it wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with the bible's truth one way or the other....

Talking about the prophets in the way the writers of the gospel did is a proven First centuary Jewish practice attested by thousands of manuscripts. The Dead Sea Scrolls are a good place to start. Cherry picking, as you call it, was a common practice then....
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Forester
Foresters do it in the woods.
03:30 PM on 02/14/2011
How could an ET explanation of the sundry angels, lights and miracles of the OT not create some serious challenges to the divine foundations of the faith? Is this not part of the reason Talmudic scholars forbid the open discussion of Ezekial's experience and insist on calling it metaphorical?
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ArtJunky
Belief is mandatory
07:19 PM on 02/14/2011
Given that aliens would have had to had great technological insight to travel this vast distance,I'm CERTAIN they would have the upper hand and destroying "our" god made manifest in our bodies would be easy sport.
01:37 PM on 02/14/2011
I really enjoyed this article. It has to be the best I've seen on HuffPo in the recent past. I think all of us owe it to ourselves to go deeper, as you put it.
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Roxee
"Feeling" you're right, doesn't "prove" you are.
12:41 PM on 02/14/2011
Continued from below, saying they were athiest would be more difficult for them I would imagine than saying they were still believers. To become an athiest because of abuse suffered at the hands of a church would mean that one would have to acknowledge that ones parents had believed a lie, and that belief was so strong that it not only put their child in harms way, but also shielded the abuser from prosecution because the church asked them not to report it to the police. This leaves the child, now adult, with the choice of confronting the parents who still believe with their new found truth which would split the family, or not confronting the parents and therefor living the rest of their lives hiding a hurt so huge it is difficult to comprehend. So, if you've bothered to read this far please don't buy the lie we are just sad and angry former abuse victims. We're not. We are just rational human beings who refuse to believe something without evidence, as you do in your every day life, except for your religious beliefs. Given the amount of BS we are fed every day to get our vote, buy this product, etc etc which we analyse constantly to try to find the truth, all we ask of our fellow humans who believe in god when they seek to find out the motives of athiests is to talk to us. Not about our non-belief if you don't want to. Just
03:10 PM on 02/14/2011
Roxee, I believe that's the whole point of my article, that is, people are more complex than just being intellectual or emotional. We have a combination of reasons of why believe what we believe, atheists just as much as Christians. The point of the article is mean to have everyone examine why they have chosen to believe what they believe. It's not meant to be a rant against atheists. Again, I refer to my position on the speaker's bureau of the Secular Student Alliance as a reference point.
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Roxee
"Feeling" you're right, doesn't "prove" you are.
09:07 PM on 02/14/2011
I thank you for your words. May I say if all believers were like you then we could all live harmoniously together. Unfortunately they're not all like you. Too many are zealots, anding behind the kind words and deeds of believers like you. The time has come for those of us who don't believe to challenge the beliefs of the religious, because weapons of mass destruction may soon be owned by believers who believe in your book and probably the power to push the button (because Americans don't vote for atheists) and people who believe their book is the truth. So, it is time for you to decide Reverend. Either you believe in the bible, or you don't. You don't get to practice the bits of the bible you believe in and leave the bits out you don't. Either it's all the word of god, or it isn't. The clock is ticking.........
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Rev. Jonathan Weyer
03:22 PM on 02/14/2011
Roxee,
That is actually the point of my article. Again, I hang with atheists on a regular basis. Please see my bio for details.
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Roxee
"Feeling" you're right, doesn't "prove" you are.
12:23 PM on 02/14/2011
So the men that wrote the books of the bible decades after their declared ressurection of Jesus presumed there would be a lot of rational people who would not believe them. So they put their heads together and invented another character in the story, Thomas, to whom they could have the character jesus say, "Blessed are those who don't see, but believe". Well hasn't that worked well for them. I find it incredible that a rational mind living today who is acutely aware of how people in power use the media to manipulate the minds of it's audience can still see this ancient version in action and still buy it. I did find the article enlightening about one thing though. If the faithful are being told the lie that atheists are just poor abused church kids, then shame on the faithful for not asking the athiests they meet if they would like some help to mend they broken souls. If the faithful performed this act of christian charity they would soon find out the truth - we aren't abused church kids now adults. I have never met a fellow athiest who is an abused church kid. Most of the abused church kids I hear interviewed on television are just angry confused people who don't know what to believe. They often express they still believe but are mentally shattered by the abuse and the responses of their fellow flock members when they make the abuse public. Saying they were athiest I
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02:07 PM on 02/14/2011
The apostle named Thomas, an actually historical person, whose other name was Didymus, as the historical record can attest, was martyred in India, where there are still shrines erected to his great work there.

And, are you aware of the fact that these were Jews we're talking about?

Where on earth did you get such ideas that these poor fishermen were people in power, and what Media existed back then to manipulate, anyway?

Did you ever crack a Bible? Well, I find it incredible that a rational person would be so utterly unaware that upwards of 2 billion of the people on earth are Christians and certainly do buy what the Bible says.

And in case you didn't know this, The apostles did things according to the Law of Moses, one such law states that out of the mouths of two or three witnesses let every word or testimony be established.

That is why we have 4 eye-witness accounts of what Jesus both did and taught: the Gospels.

I have not the slightest notion what you're trying to say about abuse.

Were you kicked by members of a Christian congregation, or physically harmed in some manner or what by them, that you feel this way?
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Roxee
"Feeling" you're right, doesn't "prove" you are.
08:57 PM on 02/14/2011
The media was the bible, written decades after the fact. The poor fishermen may have started out powerless, but thought it might be a good idea to capitalise on the popularity of a long haired hippy type who was preaching peace and love (and keep slaves, but lets leave that out shall we). So they wrote some stuff down, some of what they remembered the hippy said to add some authenticity and some other stuff which elevated their position amoungst their peers. If they entered the world today not only would they be gob smacked at the changes society has brought about through science, but also to find their words are still believed despite the apparent intelligence of these modern peoples. I repeat, I am not a victim of abuse; just a rational being who has a wariness coded into my DNA and because I was not indoctrinated as a child has the ability to assess something as unsupported BS when I see it. I think Thomas was a smart guy, after all he doubted. He just wasn't able to sustain that doubt in the face of heavy peer group pressure.
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stuoverit
"What year did Jesus think it was?"-GC
10:31 AM on 02/15/2011
Uh, you do realize that none of the four gospels were written by eye-witnesses, right? Did you ever crack a bible?

If you really think the story of Jesus and the bible and all that is true, I suggest you study other myths floating around the Mediterranean 2,000 years ago. I think you'd be hardpressed not to realize that nearly every facet of Jesus' story was lifted from other gods such as Horsu, Mithra, Zeus etc.

The reason I don't believe in a personal god that is endorsed by the bible, Qu'ran etc. is because it makes no sense for god to make a creature and then punish it for his mistake.

And the Jews? God's chosen people? Holocaust anyone?
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05:47 AM on 02/14/2011
I think we should not be so fast to understand Jesus too quickly. All of these young Jewish..boys, all of them, were constantly thinking with their fleshly, all too human minds. So, I believe there was a special reason Jesus confronted this particular disciple.
There is a very wide gulf between his doubting DID Jesus rise from the dead, and IF Jesus COULD rise from the dead. One is simple doubt from a lack of knowledge, and the other is a form of unbelief arising out of scepticism.
This position is always self-contradictory because it holds that the possibility of knowledge is limited either because of the limitations of the mind or because of the inaccessibility of its object.
Thomas' was the Sceptics' error of mistaking the unobserved for the non-existent, just as many atheists are plagued by with an even worse disease of mistaking the unobserved for the unobservable.

That's why the sceptic's demand is so untenable: "I won't believe in God until I see Him walk into this room right now!"
Because, the Bible declares that no man can see God in live.
And even if God could overcome seeing this revolting sinful creature, He would still be inaccessible to him, because God is Spirit. And all spirits are invisible.

There are other kinds of proof than just first hand knowledge; I believe this is what Jesus was saying to Thomas.But perhaps at bottom. Thomas doubted if Jesus was really the Messiah.
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06:57 AM on 02/14/2011
I personally believe that doubt must have some sort of useful context if it is to have any meaning at all.

And I think you can see the basic premise of where doubt actually arises from observing the natural world itself, from the fact that all life in whatever form is temporary.

Everything in the natural world is ever and always material and fading, delicately mortal, physically limited and having to do with time as opposed to eternity, having to do with earthly life as opposed to the spiritual life which we are told is eternal and heavenly.

The tension of his temporariness causes man, as a created being, to become radically aware of his death.

If one has been told that there is life after death, and that there is a Creator God Who will judge you after you die.... the majority of traditional societies teach in one form or another, that if one leads a worthy life here on earth, then one will enjoy a wonderful life in Paradise after death....that person will inevitably be confronted with the universal question of doubt.

I believe that doubt can take two different, and very distinct, forms.

and that DOUBT can be "man-ward" or "God-ward".

It can be a form of DOUBT based on the belief that man is the MEASURE of all things.

Or it can be a form of DOUBT based on the belief God is the MEASURE of all things.
10:55 AM on 02/14/2011
should say, "HE appeared to lots of people."
10:48 AM on 02/14/2011
"Because, the Bible declares that no man can see God in live."

Did not God appear to Abraham and Sarah? Check out Gen 17:1 and 18. I expect that was different though. Just like Jesus, who was both divine and human. So being God on earth appeared to lots of people.

You have adjustable rules to suit your purpose.

There is not an iota of first hand proof that any of this fairy tale actually happened. Everything you said in your two recent posts are conjecture based on what you think and feel.
12:55 PM on 02/14/2011
Sallysees: I can see your reply to the above in "Comments Activity" but can't open it in the link to the thread. However, You said:

"His disciples witnessed His execution by crucifixion, and so knew He was dead, then He was raised from the dead, or they could not have met Him when He appeared in the house.

That is the nature of eyewitness testimony, "I saw such and such", and this is what the gospels consist of: testimony.

ask any Lawyer to read their testimony, and he will tell you the disciples of Jesus' testimony is admissible in a court of Law.

"The Lord has risen from the dead", was their testimony. "

You are absolutely, totally wrong. You obviously think that the original apostles wrote the gospels which they did not. No one knows who wrote them and the names appended to them were added much later. They were not eye-witnesses and never knew Jesus.They were written up to 80 years after his purported death and were fabricated from oral tradition and hearsay. No court or lawyer in the civilized world would go anywhere near hearsay as testimony.

Do yourself a favor and read "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman. With an open mind you might learn something about the historicity of the gospels.
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02:50 PM on 02/14/2011
I'm curious as to why you quote the Bible to prove a point, out of one side of your mouth, then go and proclaim it a fairy tale, out of the other?

Well, I don't suppose you've ever heard of a THEOPHANY: its an earthly form God often used in the Old Testament accounts to appear to certain people.

But, the question is why did the Eternal One arrive so late?

What was He doing during the 1.4 million years since the Acheulean carvings in Africa? or the half million years since humans harnessed fire? Or, more immediately, why didn't He appear earlier than in the forty thousands years of human religious practice..of burying the dead and belief in an after life?
Why did He wait for Abraham to make His covenant with (a portion) of mankind?

I think the short answer is that God is unthinkable without writing, or, more indirectly, without the wheel, innovations which reduced human dependence on time and space.

Writing is a medium of the birth of the Alphabetic God, and in a great sense He used it in order to appear.
From the role played by writing... there was an interaction between the physical environment, and the psycho-theological work it performed in engendering a Transcendent, disembodied invisible Being.
Or...as John put it so beautifully :" In the beginning was the Word, and The Word was with God, and the Word was God..."
11:56 PM on 02/13/2011
An unexamined faith is no faith at all. I will continue my personal journey rather than look for a large group or institution to explain to me what I should believe. Tried that... found it most unsatisfying. Letting religion go was the most liberating experience of my life. I now embrace "heaven" on earth on a daily basis. Good vibrations to all!
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bryanzth
Honest to Goodness USA Patriot!
02:17 PM on 02/14/2011
what if you found a small group of self-avowed equals that provided mutual support, care and generally ensured that you were not beat up as you let religion go? No hierarchy. No dogma. No fancy buildings.

And I am serious about this. I am no thumper, no inventor of religions. Only that you could walk for a while with some decent people on your journey, and then part ways, maybe come back, maybe not.

Whatcha think?

BZ.
03:58 PM on 02/14/2011
As it turns out I am finding more and more folks of like mind all the time. Most of my family came to similar conclusions all on their own so there are plenty to share my thoughts with in my family. As for the rest, well I guess I just haven't taken the time or effort to get together to discuss life philosophy or religion. It usually happens more organically. I like your suggestion though. At the end of the day, I guess I enjoy my journey in a more private context and just dont feel compelled to make it a group activity. Most folks who think similar to me are very confident in their ability to think for themselves and aren't really looking for any validation from an outside source. Just rambling thoughts for you here.
11:18 PM on 02/13/2011
I would like to make one clarification that I made somewhere in the thread. The term Pirate Atheists is in no way meant to degenerate or belittle atheists. The term refers to the FSM and the pastafarians who often dress like pirates. For those unfamiliar with FSM and pastafarians, it is often used in atheist circles to make fun of the concept of God and religion. Many atheists embrace the pirate theme as an honor. As I'm currently on the speaker's bureau of the Secular Student Alliance, I do my best to make sure that I'm always representing atheists in ways they would like. It's true not all atheists use the pirate theme, but most of the atheists I hang with think its funny. From what I can tell, it beats the term "new atheists" as if atheism suddenly came about with the current rise in popularity. To sum up, I chose a term I thought atheists would like. If you are an atheist and you don't like it, my apologies. I certainly didn't mean pirate to be a negative thing.

So..arrrggg me hearties....drink some rum and calm yourselves....
11:11 PM on 02/13/2011
I want to thank everyone for their input so far. I do apologize on not being able to get to everyone's comments. But, keep up the discussion, I'm enjoying it...
03:55 AM on 02/14/2011
" I have realized that my search for truth must go deeper then the superficial answers given to us by our culture in the church and the culture as a whole. I realized that my search for the truth must answer my intellectual or emotional questions, otherwise, my search will never be satisfied."

The superficial answers given to you by your church culture is all you have, anything else you come up with will be invented and rationalised in your mind - because for whatever reason, you don't want to reject irrational beliefs.

At what point might your search be satisfied? When belief without evidence supercedes your intellect and powers of reason?

"This lesson taught me a lot about how we work as people. Our beliefs can't be boiled down into either purely intellectual or emotional categories."

You are talking specifically about religious beliefs here. You should therefore separate "intellectual" and "emotional."

Faith, is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence and cannot be considered an intellectual pursuit, anymore than believing that alien abduction is. Faith IS an emotion.

Intellect: the power or faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands, as distinguished from that by which one feels and that by which one wills; the understanding; the faculty of thinking and acquiring knowledge.

I suggest that the acquisition of knowledge cannot be achieved without hard evidence as opposed to what one wills or feels.