Some Apocalyptic Observations on the Democratic Nomination Fight from Here on Out
A young friend who lives in a small town in a rural state sent me the following observation today:
If the Clintons push for the win in Denver, they're going to split the goddamn party down the middle. I read your chapter on 1968 Chicago, obviously. I'm of the generation who supports Obama. I know what we're like. Shit, I know what I'm like.
Rick, if the Machine tries to give the Clintons the victory at the convention, I swear to God, Chicago's going to look like a Sadie Hawkins dance. People my age are going to be throwing stones. We all have transportation -- cell phones -- disposable income -- the Internet -- free time -- and Seattle as our example. Part of me is scared of a riot. Part of me isn't. The nomination belongs to Obama. Do you think we're going to let the Democratic Leadership Council take it? "God gave Noah the rainbow sign. No more water, fire next time."
He's referring to my forthcoming book Nixonland, about the American civil war that broke out between 1965 and 1972, specifically the chapter about the beatings by Chicago police against both anti-war protesters and anti-war delegates at the 1968 Democratic Convention. I thought it a bit too melodramatic, and didn't take it particularly seriously, though I did pass it on for discussion (with my friend's permission) at a couple of listservs I belong to.
One of them yielded up this response, from an Iraq War vet who works full time in Democratic politics (again, quoted with permission):
Not to mention that there's going to be a significant Iraq veteran contingent at the convention, ready to rock 'n' roll. We've already had planning meetings about it -- we're going about it the same way that we would plan any decent military operation.
Put it this way: if she goes for the gold in Denver, she'll have to claim the medal somewhere other than the Pepsi Center.
I began to take all this a little bit more seriously.
He then added this:
I can't emphasize enough how potentially scary things could get -- we've got folks working on the inside of the convention, and it's all done on a cell basis, so that folks only know what they need to know.
I'm trying to keep everyone calm, as I just mentioned, but it's getting harder and harder to do so. The mood's getting ugly, and if we go to Denver without a nominee, the pressure's going to be intense from without to nominate Obama. She can win the nomination, but it won't be a prize worth having.
I took it more seriously still.
I pass this all on without comment, for superdelegates and my friends in the Hillary Clinton campaign to read, and in categorical abhorrence of anyone who'd contemplate introducing violence as a variable in American civic life.
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Rick, I have an even better solution that will cause as much grief to everyone involved and it doesn't have to wait until the convention and no one gets hurt (physically). It's called kill the servers. You get a couple of million people on the internet to start sending emails every hour or so to the DNC and Clinton websites and don't quit until they capitulate to giving up and giving in. I would think about a week of constant barrage would do it (call it siege warfare). I'd like to see how much money Clinton would raise without a website.
Just a suggestion.
I do believe you are brilliant.
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Real protestors don't write in advance.
-- Berkeley grad/ 1968
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these aren't protestors, they are spoiled brats who are mad as hell that they might not get their way.
SUNY grad/ 1972
For some time I have been marveling at the likeness of the disputes between the Obama supporters and the Clinton to the disputes between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Both claim they are the favored of God and the other side is a bunch of not very nice people.
This article confronts both camps with the prospect of a real convention in the finest Democratic traditions going back to 1828. There have been some real brawls among Democrats. I note that this prospect causes each side to pull back from the precipice somewhat. The Clintion people mostly saying "Let's all be nice and play by the rules." The Obama people saying, "This would be terrible, I really hope this doesn't happen."
I am surprised and a little releived to see this. But I remember 1968 well. This campaign has been fairly civil so far. Until the last week. But from here on out, I expect, no, I fear, the campaign is going to be very viscious and vile just like the pre-convention campaign in 1968. I expect the positions of each side to harden and the passions to become even more inflammed.
Barring some hideous revelation about Obama, it is a mathmatical certainty he will go into the convention with the larger number of pledged delegates. If the unpledged delegates vote against him, I expect at least fist fights on the convention floor. If they vote against Hillary, I expect at least very rowdy protest demonstrations. In other words, I expect something like described in this article to happen.
But it won't matter. By the time this filthy campaign is over, and the floor fights over rules, credentials, and platform are done right in front of an American viewing public, it won't matter how the unpledged delegates vote. The party will be so split and shattered the election will be lost.
By the way I did vote for Obama!
The Democratic Party will have brought this upon themselves this time, just as surely as they did in Chicago in 1968. As someone noted, we Have been screwed out of two presidential elections. We Did elect a new group of Dems to Congress in 06 and have gotten exactly nothing for our trouble. The party leadership starting with Pelosi and going all the way down to anyone of them that continues to vote for things like the Telcom Immunity deal or expansion of spying deserves to be confronted by The People.
And it seems that they only way we can get our face in front of theirs is at an event like the Convention--especially if they try to ram some back room deal through on Anybody's behalf--Obama, Hillary, Rue Paul, doesn't matter. What should matter is the will and voice of the people. The MSM, and this has been substantiated right here on HuffPo, very deliberately removed all other contenders from consideration by marginalizing their message and denying them a voice. What we have ended up with is the two products that they felt they could get the most advertising miles out of.
Non-violent civil protest is a right under our now almost dead Constitution. There are issues here, lives at stake in Iraq and right here in America in New Orleans and every working class home that has been sacrificed to Citibank or Goldman Sachs, and the Media ignores these issues as well. It is the issue I have beat the drum about most here on HuffPo--All the posters who beat each other up about Hillary vs Obama and on and on, not realizing you are just pawns in the game. The things that really affect you--and you know the list--are the things that need to be talked about loudly--loudly enough that the eventual candidate can no longer ignore them, and the party must include them in their platform right upfront! Being in Denver can make that happen. Peacefully. Honorably. Successfully.
And given the criminal regime that has ruled our country for the last 7 years, this uprising of feeling and concern was inevitable.
Kick-ass comments and observations. And taken to heart. Force the candidates to really face the issues and whoever does should win the Nom. Amen.
Thanks, both of you--like minds and all that! I love this Country, but I hate what we have allowed it to become.
I have been saying the same thing,
we were "given" these 2 candidates because a black man vs woman contest was the best for their ratings.
the good candidates were relegated to the "2nd tier" from the very beginning.
how I wish we had a dodd or biden to offer up instead of these 2 catfighting egomaniacs
perhaps if there is a "peacefull" protest at the convention a new ticket can be offered that will relieve us of this nightmare of hillary/obama mutually assured destruction..
So, the Obama fanatics are willing to use force to ensure the outcome they desire. Let's see: a 'movement' built around a cult of personality, manned by fanatical cadres who intimidate in caucuses, intimidate and threaten independent delegates and threaten to stage a coup to ensure their victory. Remind you of anyone? It should, these were exactly the tactics used by V.I Lenin and the Bolsheviks to overthrow the Kerensky government. This is not a democratic process anymore, this is an attempted hijacking.
no, only if they steal it. If Hillary by some miracle winds up with the popular vote, all will be well. If she doesn't, and uses the Party machine to win, you betchyer damn ass... don't confuse class with Strength or determination. See you in Denver!
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Please use the words 'Obama voters'...that's the difference, genius.
Actually sounds more like Thomas Jefferson etal. You know those ultra radicals who founded this nation? That were willing to go to war against the all mighty and most powerful nation on earth at the time (the British Empire) to put forth an entirely new radical postulate "We the people ..... ".
I don't think most Americans have any idea how radical the founders of this country were. At the time they were contrary to every concept that was prevalent among governments at the time. But to call the radicalism of what I'm reading by these 'cultists' as you call them anything but true to the founder's idealism and portentousness is blind to the intent behind the meaning.
So, we are to abandon the democratic (small d) process in the face of threats of violence? WTF! This is ludicrous and irresponsible and I'm even more disappointed than ever that HuffPo is helping spread this tripe.
no...if the democratic process is upended and stolen away there will be violence
Obama didn't say it, the people who have been ripped off and disenfranchised once too often did. You use the Machine at your own risk you snide, revolting, pathetic excuses for human beings. I've heard enough from the Republican Wing of our Party. Don't you have some footage of Obama to manipulate for McCain?
As somebody who is old enough to have watched the demonstrations in '68 and eaten my heart out that I wasn't there, I can only be heartened by a determination--even a wish--to take to the streets to show our resolve in the face of the Clintons and our other criminal overlords.
The only thing that gives me pause is this: You want to go to the streets on behalf of OBAMA?
Did the guy ever say that he would close Guantamo and punish the torturers? Or that he would expose the truth of who Bush wiretapped? Does he promise to end the war not merely because it's unwinnable or causing American deaths, but because it's wrong and because it's caused a million Iraqi deaths?
Don't get me wrong. If there's going to be a dust-up in Denver, I want to be there. I just hope we won't be doing what we do in order to show support for a centrist Democrat who's marginally better than the establishment candidate. It would be like in 1968 if people rioted because Humphrey was nominated instead of Al Gore Senior.
Al Gore Sr. voted against all the civil rights bills.
A lot was learned from 1968. For example, security measures will probably keep protesters miles away from the actual convention. You can bet the authorities are way on top of this. So go ahead and go to Denver. It's your nickel to waste.
"You want to go to the streets on behalf of OBAMA"? This is exactly what I was thinking emjay. Obama is perfectly OK with the oligarchy or he wouldn't have come this far. But I am happy to hear from people who are angry enough to fight. And the DLC certainly is the right target. So more power to you all. But don't challenge authority if you haven't thought it through. I was just coming out of the army in 1968. A lot has changed. Back then the cops weren't on steroids and torture was illegal and people had a right to a trial. Don't do the crime if you cant do the time.
People need to settle down. Going to the convention won't torpedo the nominees chances in the general election. It will actually be interesting and might generate more enthusiasm.
What will cause problems are:
If one has a significant lead in delegates gets thwarted by superdelegates. What is "significant"? That depends upon what your definition of "is" is. ;)
If the candidates tear each other to ribbons in the lead up to the convention. We cannot forget how great it was earlier in the primaries when the candidates addressed the issues and discussed them. And how that stood in stark contrast to the Republican primaries, and how cheap and mean and small-minded the Republicans painted themselves. That is one of the real sources of all the enthusiasm we're seeing. The civility and respect showcased by the Democrats. If we abandon that, we abandon a real strength in winning the White House.
significant, as in also carries the popular vote. Super Delegates contravene that at their own, and the Nation's, risk. I will surely be protesting if this happens. We'll let the police decide how nasty they want it. Since this is in a Red state, I'd suspect they will do everything they can to discredit the Democrats, so prepare for it to be VERY ugly.
just what purpose do the superdelegates serve if not to ameliorate the volitile voice of the masses,
they are not an echo chamber, but a break, a quantifier of the raw public voice,
we are a republic not a democracy because even the founding fathers realized that power should not be put into the raw hands of the people's voice.
I am hopng that these party elders can come to a solution that is in the best interests of the party, not the individual candidate.
we are in this to win in november, right?
if you want to riot because your guy didn't get the brass ring, you are just emphasizing what an uncontolable bunch of hotheads we are and how unfit we would be to lead the nation.
Forgive me, but I think this is more bluster than anything else. If Obama is really the candidate of generational change - and I really want him to be - we would see more young people out voting, and not out threatening violence at the convention. So again, I find it very hard to take these threats seriously.
If soemeone steals an election, why should the people NOT go to the streets and do what they have to to save their democracy?
Clinton cannot win this race democratically anymore. She's done. All she can do is try to steal it, which she will, and this dude is right....people will riot if ANOTHER election is stolen from them.
Obama can't win it by the pledged delegate count, either. He would have to "Steal" it too. it's a two way street. Why shouldn't he drop out? Insisting that Hillary drops out is trying to steal the election, by not giving people like myself who haven't voted yet, a fair say in this once in a life time, historical election.
why weren't you zealots for democracy out in the streets in december of 2000.
we could have used you then
rioting because this flawed and untested pidd piper might not fit the bill as a party nominee isn't cause enough to hand the election to the republicans.'
a trainwreck of a convention will only prove to the fence sitters needed to win the national, that the democrats can't even run a primary let alone a country.
it just proves that the whole obama thing is about a cult of personality not true political movement.
Where do I enlist?
well I am of the "generation that supports obama" as well.
but I feel nothing like this young man. in fact I have friends of all races and genders who feel nothing like this.
wow, if so many more young people feel the same way it shows how misguided the young Obama supporters are, call it what you want "fad", "bandwagon" or a totally legitimate campaign but this Obama "movement" is the peaceful, anti-negative, heaven-like fairyland they would have us believe.
Reminds me of some of the Obama supporters who where at neighboring precincts, complete wind-ups (I was running around a couple polling places as a volunteer). Now I'm not lumping all of them up of course because in my precinct they were polite folk who very graciously accepted that our little precinct went for Hillary.
Rick, I don't believe you.
I think the people you are quoting are either imaginary or republican trolls.
I'm skeptical too. Something about this just seems phony.
I agree. The post is sort of screwy. But the thread is really interesting.
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