EDITION: U.S.
 
CONNECT    

RJ Eskow

RJ Eskow

Posted: March 5, 2008 11:02 PM

Democrats: No Good Scenarios Left?


?>

The last set of positive scenarios for the Democratic Party is disappearing, leaving a series of increasingly unattractive options in its place. The Party is at risk of becoming collateral damage in the Clinton campaign's war for the nomination. If the Clinton team has found a pathway to the nomination that won't decimate the Party's chances in November, now would be a good time to share it.

It may not be enough just to persuade superdelegates to overrule the primary process and vote for her. Since the arithmetic's overwhelmingly against her, she may also need to convince the party to seat Michigan and Florida's ill-gotten delegates.

The only way that's not a complete disaster for the party is if a) Obama avoids going negative against her in response to her slash-and-burn tactics of the past week, b) she wins Pennsylvania and the horsetrading takes place immediately thereafter, and c) Obama is persuaded to abide by (and actively endorse) that deal by accepting the VP slot. Even so, a number of currently-mobilized volunteers could well be disillusioned and withdraw from the process.

And how likely is that scenario, anyway? Not very. Obama's already turning up the campaign rhetoric, so we're going to have two more weeks or more of the two remaining candidates slashing away at each other while McCain plays elder statesman. Clinton's negative tactics paid off for her personally this week, but at tremendous cost to the party. If Obama wins the nomination now, the Republicans will have heavy artillery to use against him -- artillery built and hand-delivered by Sen. Clinton and her campaign.

Now Obama will respond, as he must to stay in the race. That will provide heavy artillery for McCain to use should Clinton become the nominee. It's unlikely that Obama will concede to Hillary and join her ticket, even if she wins Pennsylvania, if -- as is likely -- he continues to hold leads in both pledged delegates and votes.

So the race will probably go on through August unless Clinton suffers a decisive loss in Pennsylvania. Unless that happens -- which isn't the way it looks now -- a 'cascading failure' scenario kicks in, with two candidates continue to fracture the party and damage each other until the convention.

The best of all possible outcomes at that point would be for Obama to win the nomination at the convention (or shortly beforehand.) He will be damaged by her tactics, but at least he can enter the general election with a legitimate nomination. The only possible way Clinton can get the nomination after the "cascading failure" point is by clearly overruling the primary process as laid out by the party.

The historical analogies used by some Clinton supporters to justify the superdelegates-overruling-the-primaries scenario (repeated here) don't hold water. That was then, this is now. Those nominations all took place before the party undertook reforms to ensure that the Democratic candidate reflected the popular will of the Party. Democrats today expect no less. A nominee whose selection overrules the primary process and is seen as a back-room maneuver will divide the party, demoralize its activists, and alienate an entire generation from political activism. And while I initially dismissed the more apocalyptic scenarios, a piece like this one leaves me less sure they couldn't happen -- and in any event these discussions certainly reflect the level of anger and disaffection that would be felt if these tactics were to hand Clinton the nomination.

The Party has already sustained serious damage as a result of Clinton's campaign decisions of the last week. There is no way to undo that. The question is how deep and how lasting the damage will be. Under this battle is ended in Pennsylvania, the wounds may well prove lethal. And the only scenario for ending this in Pennsylvania is a decisive Obama victory.

This week was a decisive win for two interested parties: the Republicans and the press. The GOP benefits from a self-destructing party whose two leading candidates continue to wound each other for weeks and months to come. The press benefits by having the horserace continue as long as possible between the woman and the black man. It's a great story. Anyone who thinks the press is "in the tank" for Obama - or Hillary - should understand that they're only in the tank for this: a good story, at any cost.

There are those who will argue that I'm not looking at this process objectively. Fine, then you tell me -- realistically -- how Sen. Clinton can win without overruling the primary process and therefore causing significant harm.

If there is any scenario for her continued candidacy that grants her victory and doesn't gravely damage Democratic chances, it's incumbent upon Sen. Clinton to tell us what it is. Otherwise the Party's sole goal should be to end her campaign as quickly as possible, before any more harm is done. How likely is that? Not very. That leaves the party with a probability of victory in November that diminishes with each passing week between now and August, unless a decisive victory brings an end to to the conflict.


Follow RJ Eskow on Twitter: www.twitter.com/rjeskow

 
  • Comments
  • 316
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (7 total)
04:55 PM on 03/07/2008
Yes, I think you're not being objective. In fact, you're so vehement, that my first reading of your post led me to conclude that you're a woman-hate­r. Guys like you, sure they are respectful to the women they love, but they sure as hell don't want any woman in authority, let alone a woman president.

But then I read it again. The best of all scenarios for you is that she loses Pennsylvan­ia. Hurry up and get it over with soon. That's what makes me think at the very least you are not being objective. There are almost just as many voters who want her to be President as there are voters who want him. So how is it fair to make her back out of the race? He's not winning by a landslide. She's not hanging on like Huckabee did.

I think we just need to be patient and let this thing play out and we need to be as fair as possible to voters. Hey, as a Hillary supporter, I'd like to say your guy has no business in this race. He doesn't have enough experience­. But I know better. Half of the democratic electorate wants him. So we just have to see what happens. The party will survive, as long as we're fair.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
miles120
11:59 AM on 03/08/2008
Uh, maybe we should take a deep breath and look at what's happening here. The assertion is that mathematic­ally, Senator Clinton has an extremely low probabilit­y of winning without working a super-dele­gate deal, or changing the rules to get the Florida and Michigan delegates seated. Rules, by the way, that were agreed upon in advance by all parties involved.

I don't see how this has anything to do with race or gender. Quite simply, Senator Clinton's campaign has openly chosen to violate Reagan's commandmen­t (I paraphrase­), "Thou shalt not attack a [fellow party member]." There's a very good reason for this, and ignoring it will probably cost the Democrats the White House in November. Not to mention damage to the Clinton brand name in domestic politics.

By the way, I noticed that while you criticized this post in a Clintonian­-style (i.e., "below the belt") you didn't rise to the challenge of the post: how does the Clinton campaign mathematic­ally achieve delegate supremacy without a backroom deal?
03:37 PM on 03/08/2008
"By the way, I noticed that while you criticized this post in a Clintonian­-style (i.e., "below the belt") you didn't rise to the challenge of the post: how does the Clinton campaign mathematic­ally achieve delegate supremacy without a backroom deal?"

She can't. And neither can Obama get the nomination without the superdeleg­ates choosing him. So, what was the point again?

I heard something on the radio today that put things in perspectiv­e. The super delegates are elected and unelected Democratic party people. THEIR interest in the nomination process is that a DEMOCRAT be elected so they can keep their positions. So, the super delegates are in the business of trying to nominate a candidate who can win. That is their function. And it looks as if they will be the swing voters this year.
01:05 PM on 03/08/2008
WOMAN hater? If this is feminism, it's pathetic.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tbone99
cruisin' duality
11:05 AM on 03/07/2008
Democrats need to subject themselves to 24 hours of non stop Bush and Bush decisions to remember what the point of this election is.
09:47 AM on 03/07/2008
Michigan and Florida should have a 'do-over.'

It does not have to be a primary. It does not have to be a caucus.

Send a SASE (self-addr­essed stamped envelope) to every registered democratic voter in each state with a ballot. That ballot should have the candidates­’ names on it and be machine readable. Yes, basically an absentee ballot, but for everyone.

This is a far less expensive option than a primary, and a far more inclusive process than a caucus. Stop over thinking Michigan and Florida, and let's hear what they have to say, and do it more fairly and within new agreed upon rules.

The candidate that offers this solution will be viewed as the greater statesman.
10:12 AM on 03/07/2008
Michigan has to be a do-over: Obama wasn't on the ballot. Already in the works:

http://blo­gs.tnr.com­/tnr/blogs­/the_plank­/archive/2­008/03/06/­breaking-m­ichigan-ca­ucus-likel­y-says-dnc­-rules-com­mittee-mem­ber.aspx

Florida? Clinton had 50% of the vote, Obama 33%, Edwards 14%.

Solution: Edwards pledges his delegates to Obama and let the primary results ride.
10:39 AM on 03/07/2008
"Solution: Edwards pledges his delegates to Obama and let the primary results ride."

The problem is, any solution to this apparently has to be approved by both campaigns. I'm not sure why that matters, the DNC sets the rules for nomination­, but them's the breaks.

To that end, Hillary will never accept the solution you've posited. She won't accept any solution that doesn't give her a massive advantage - that's why she's pushing this in the first place. She doesn't want fairness or voter enfranchis­ement; she wants a gimme.

In the end, she may get it, at the cost of the election in November and a very large number of swing voters and new voters who will again decide that hey, politics really doesn't matter because their voice doesn't matter anyway.
09:45 AM on 03/07/2008
The only way that the party can be destroyed is if the members of the party allow it. So far, it seems that the Obamites will take the ball and go home if Hillary wins the nomination (it's not over yet folks). The virulent hatred from Barack Obama's people sours the whole process so much and yet they whistle past the graveyard and act as if their man has been anointed.
Look at the post from Timma. He calls it "Drowning the stage in tears" when she choked up. He says she uses "Bravada war rhetoric " (when did that occur?). He said she stooped "To make the political arena a blood sport". Senator from Punjab, Hillary is a monster, the 1984/Hilla­ry video, "If you can't run your family how can you run the country", "Her folks will vote for me, but I'm not sure that mine will vote for her", Liar! Bitch! Shrill! Cackle! That all seems as bloody as any campaign rhetoric. Somehow things are supposed to be different for Barack than for any other candidate in the history of this process.
And then so many Obamites, on sites like this, angrily swear they will vote for John McCain rather than Hillary Clinton. I say call them on it. Your vote defines your politics. Maybe you can be like the Reagan Democrats and screw the party for decades.
Remember folks. If it wasn't for Bill Clinton, we would have had Republican Presidents for the last 26 years. Bill changed that momentum and created the most positive Presidency in my lifetime. The CBO said that with Clinton's surpluses, the National debt would have been eliminated by 2008 (instead of doubled as it is now). Then Al Gore was going to follow up and put that surplus into a lockbox to insure Social Security and Medicare. That dream is long gone and many Democratic party members who enjoyed the 90's are bringing out the long knives for Bill Clinton. Shameful!
10:58 AM on 03/07/2008
You seem to think that every Obama supporter is a died-in-th­e-wool Democrat who would be party jumping if their favorite nominee doesn't get picked.

You ARE aware, aren't you, that something like 15-20% of Obama's base are Independen­ts and swing voters (such as myself)? You really want to insult them for actually.. well.. being independen­t or swinging?

Party loyalty is second to personal judgement. If I think Hillary shouldn't be in the White House, I'm not voting for her. That simple.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
LarBear
11:14 AM on 03/07/2008
Is there a current Huff Po talking point Memo out on Portraying Hillary as fearfull??­?

If the Clinton team has found a pathway to the nomination that won't decimate the Party's chances in November, now would be a good time to share it. ( R J Eskow ) Decimate = 10% = from decimus tenth, from decem ten )...
How about Obama's "stealth" Negative (Fear Based) Campaign..­. To portray Hillary answering the Red Phone Ad as being Negative..­... well then, What do you suppose Obama's, "I was against the WAR before anybody else spiel is all about?" LMAO... Did you feel Obama set that (fear) hook? Vote for me, or die? Don't trust anybody else! Only I can save you from terrible Wars and evil... Honestly, did you feel him set that hook?
Is NOT that a Negative, don't trust anyone but Obama, ongoing Ad??? He has used that with a Free Pass from the MSM, from the very start of his Campaign..­. Couple that with his claim that Hillary voted for the WAR and it gives a stronger message yet... Perhaps that makes it a double hook? Here fishy, fishy... LMAO....

I suppose the Obama's playing the Race Card is Positive??­? Obama's, only he can beat McCain (more Bush continued) is Positive? I suppose all the Biased against Hillary, Huff Po Articles, are Positive Fear Mongering?­?? Lordy, writers and Pundit's assume WE the People are stupid and gullible..­.
Hillary and others did NOT Vote to go to War as Obama lies and spins... They in Fact, voted to go to the U.N. first and use Military Force, as a last resort... Is WAR supposedly the ONLY Military Option/ Response possible??­? Is that what Obama wants us to believe? Is that what Obama believes??­? Congress clearly did NOT Vote to Invade/Occ­upy Iraq... There's been NO Vote to go to War... WE are NOT at WAR... Authorizat­ion to use Force is NOT a Decision..­. Bush decided that on his own...
09:42 AM on 03/07/2008
Summed up very nicely. Now, the DNC, party elders and uncommitte­d Super Delegates need to get to work on getting Clinton out of this race before she does anymore damage and before PA. Are you listening Howard Dean?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Democrab
Pretty far so good
09:39 AM on 03/07/2008
I'll tell you one really stupid scenario and that would be the idiocy of a Michigan caucus.

The state of Texas is absolute proof of the unfairness of the caucus system.

Hillary wins by 100,000 votes, yet Obama wins the caucuses.

Michigan is a state where over 2 million voters marked their ballot.

A caucus there would allow the voting of about 100,000 people, hardly a representa­tion of the real vote of the people.

Obama excels in the caucuses because his demograpic has the time to go to the damned things, and Hillary's working class supporters are doing just that; working. And the open voting intimidati­on factor is also prevalent.

The Clinton campaign should be screaming bloody blue murder if Michigan changes that horse in the middle of the stream unfairly favoring Obama. Get the lawyers out and stop this dumb idea in it's tracks!
09:39 AM on 03/07/2008
Hillary seems to indicate that she thinks McCain is more qualified than Obama to be President so she's scorched the earth. Many of Obama supporters and real Democrats are not going to support sybil...er­, I mean Hillary, if she gets the nomination­. You can write off the black vote because they have seen her imply that a black man isn't qualified to be a President. On top of that her little trick of displaying a picture of Obama on her website where his skin was darkened and his nose was broaden has surely destroyed any good will the Clinton's had among African Americans. Conservati­ve Reagan Democrats who voted for Hillary because they are racists are going to flip to McCain when its apparent that the debate is about who should be commander in chief and both she and McCain have identical foreign policy positions. So we're headed towards a Republican victory in November. All because Hillary thinks winning is everything even if you destroy the Democratic Party to do it. I used to defend the Clintons. In fact in the beginning, I supported Hillary. Now I realize that every vile thing that was said about them by my Republican friends is probably true. After her act last week I've had to eat humble pie amongst my Repub. friends who have said repeatedly­, "I told you so." They did and I didn't listen. They're right, the Clintons are scum. Bring back Ken Starr!!!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tbone99
cruisin' duality
10:52 AM on 03/07/2008
As far as Clinton scorching the earth with liking McCain- what about Obama praising Reagan and the Repugs as the party of Ideas ?, Or Michelle saying she wouldn't support H.C's nomination should it go to her.? Or his hinting around that he will put Hagel and Lugar in his cabinet (both hard core conservati­ves) I mean who does he represent? How about Obama entering the race long after both Edwards and H,C had been campaignin­g and changing what might have been a much less eventful campaign?

I voted for him in the primary lukewarmly ( they're not really much different, but I hoped it could accelerate some decision in the Party) but I don't think he can expect to have a smooth slide into home- it's not the nature of the game. and finger pointing can go in several directions­.

If the A.A vote decides to take their ballot s and go home or vote for Mccain , will we be blaming him as a spoiler the way we did Nader? Oh no - Obama supporters have only one answer - it's Hilary's fault.!
11:10 AM on 03/07/2008
"what about Obama praising Reagan and the Repugs as the party of Ideas ?"

Ugh... this again? He didn't praise Reagan. What he said was that Reagan changed politics, as did Bill Clinton. He didn't speculate on whether Reagan was good or bad, only that he changed things. That's akin to pointing out that the sky is blue.

As for saying the Republican­s were the party of ideas, his actual quote was "The Republican­s were the party of ideas - bad ideas." Wow, that's some rousing endorsemen­t of the Republican­s... not.
11:26 AM on 03/07/2008
The Obama comment about Reagan was taken out of context by the Clintons who were desperate for ways to attack him. What he was saying was that Reagan took his mandate and changed the paradigm, the overarchin­g assumption­s about government­, and that he used that oppportuni­ty to enact sweeping changes. He wasn't saying that Reagan was a good thing--far from it. He was saying that he wanted to get that kind of mandate and make sweeping changes of his own. That's some vision. Re the spoiler comment: I am sure that Hillary Clinton and John Edwards dislike Obama for interrupti­ng what should have for them been an easier dialogue between the two of them. Tough. (I write this as someone who supported Edwards and still supports his platform.) Obama has won the hearts and minds of the electorate­. Given the mess that's been made by the Bushes, we need someone who's going to change the paradigm and move us forward as a nation. Get over it. As for being a spoiler, that's Clinton who seems bent on praising McCain at the expense of Obama--as if saying, I don't care if my actions cause the Democratic party to lose with Obama; I can then come back in 2012 and say I told you so. But meanwhile what about America?
03:34 AM on 03/07/2008
The Clintons have a long, unseemly history. The answer is for somebody--­not the Obama campaign because they're obviously not good at this--to comb thorugh their records and dealings and mercilessl­y beat her over the head with it. Furthermor­e, keep targeting the sycophants around her. Ickes, Wolfson, etc. and probe their personal dealings.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
timinhi
07:04 AM on 03/07/2008
What I would like is for you Obama people to stop with the overt and implied threats that if Hillary wins the nomination­, you're gonna take your marbles and go home. If you're so crass and childish that you would actually threaten not to support another Dem if they get the nomination­, let alone actually to follow through on such a threat, then you were never really Democrats in the first place. It's NOT the "OBAMA-cra­tic" Party, it's the Democratic Party. Let the primary season play itself out. Let the people speak--eve­n the superdeleg­ates--that­'s the rules everyone agreed to play by back in 1980. You're all into "playing by the rules" if it means disenfranc­hising Florida and Michigan, but you don't seem to like the rules so much when they involve superdeleg­ates and how they may vote. I support Hillary. But if Obama beats her, I will probably grudgingly support him in the General. I don't think he'd be as good a president as Hillary, but I'd like to think he might be better than McCain, and we all KNOW he'd be better than the current Chimp-In-C­hief. I say grudgingly­, however, because more and more, I'm getting turned off by the vicious personal attacks on the Clintons ("She's shrill! She cackles! She's a bitch! She's pro-war! She's a liar! She'll say/do anything to get elected! (like Obama wouldn't!)­, etc.) and the feigned indignatio­n that Hillary is "attacking­" Obama whenever she legitimate­ly brings up any of his actual shortcomin­gs. If Obama wins like this, I intend to do my best and try to forget his and his supporters tactics (as evidenced daily right here on HuffPo, but keep it up--many Hillary supporters may not be so forgiving or forgetful come November. If he's as good and glorious and wonderful as you keep saying, you and he shouldn't have to stoop to this type of campaignin­g for him to win. I thought he was supposed to stand for an end to the "politics of old."
09:40 AM on 03/07/2008
I am taking my marbles and walking. In fact, after last week I will actively work against her in the general election and I'm a life long Democrat.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chillmonster
I speak clearly for those that can't hear me.
10:46 AM on 03/07/2008
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'll never vote for Hillary.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JTyroler
knows that there is no GOP savior for 2012
02:43 AM on 03/07/2008
The Democrats seem to be hell-bent on electing John McCain as president. It wasn't too long ago that people were wondering if W had destroyed the Republican party, now, the Democrats are self-destr­ucting. This country cannot take 4 more years of Bush type leadership­.

One thing that's most likely come out of all this is a change in the Democrats primary system.
01:46 AM on 03/07/2008
@WillBFair

"Bill was a leading intellectu­al..."

Please, spare us. Bill Clinton was a great Democratic president, no doubt about it.

But "a leading intellectu­al"?

Whatever you're on, I want some!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Democrab
Pretty far so good
10:24 AM on 03/07/2008
He's a Rhodes scholar and an infinitely superior orator over Obama.

That is of course unless you favor baptist preaching!
11:35 AM on 03/07/2008
"He's a Rhodes scholar and an infinitely superior orator over Obama."

I always liked the fact that he was a Rhodes scholar. Gave him a certain... authority.­.. that a mere politician doesn't have.

As for whether he's an infinitely superior orator to Obama, well, I'd say that's debatable but I'll say they're definitely at least equal.

Weird part is? I've known people who were vastly better speakers than BOTH Clinton and Obama... Clinton and Obama both have this tic that annoys the heck out of me, a tendency to break what should be eloquent, contiguous sentences into distinct parts. The most powerful oratory is not memorized, but sounds like it is. Neither of them sound that way.

That's not really here nor there, and I'm not really disagreein­g with you, just throwing in my two cents :)
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chillmonster
I speak clearly for those that can't hear me.
01:40 AM on 03/07/2008
I'm sick sick sick of Hillary. There's no reason ANYONE should be supporting her. She CAN'T win the nomination without overturnin­g the will of the people. That means every negative ad, every jab and barb in every speech is another bullet in the arsenal of negativity Repubilica­ns are going to unleash in the Fall. This HAS TO END.

By now it's painfully obvious that Clinton is much more ambitious than she is patriotic and she loves her career MUCH MORE than she could ever love the people of this country. It is time for her to finally put the country first and step down. I hope she realizes that sooner rather than later.
03:08 PM on 03/07/2008
If the democratic primaries were as the republican­s or as the general election winners take all she would have been nominated long ago. she has gotten the big states and the city vote and loosing in caucuses were working people cant go because they are working what is this about the will of the people.
01:08 AM on 03/07/2008
My gut tells me this will be a stolen election. If Clinton wins in some dishonest way it will let down millions of young voters who have hope. Even if they support her or not, there will be broken hearts and disillusio­ned voters everywhere­. And the only person who doesn't care is Clinton herself. Like the way Bush was when he stole it in Florida. He was cocky and egotistica­l and thats how she is displaying herself now.

Her hypocrisie­s need to be pointed out in the media. In blaring ways. She voted against Michigan and Florida. She should not have a say in their process whatsoever­.

It's going to be stolen in some way I can just feel it. She will stop at nothing. Including saying that the republican candidate is better suited for the white house than her competitio­n. It's treachery to the damn democratic party and the fact that she said it twice now should have earned her an expulsion from the democratic party.
12:32 AM on 03/07/2008
Its quite apparent that Hillary decided after eleven straight losses that if she was to go down, she was going to take Obama with her.

Her scorched earth campaign of negative ads and comments against Obama is going to have Obama come out as a crippled, wounded, and bloodied nominee against McCain.

It will take a lot of inspiratio­n and hope for Obama to stop the ship from sinking between Denver, and November. These are his core strengths. If he can't do it nobody can.

Obama should tell Hillary: "Shame on you Hillary for sinking the hopes of millions of young and aspiring Democrats"­. If Hillary gets the nomination­, these kids will defect to the Republican party faster than the word "experienc­e".The Democratic party would have lost a generation of youth, vigor, and enthusiasm­.


Hillary: please run for office in Ireland, and tell them again, your excellent "crisis management skills" at 3am in the morning.
12:27 AM on 03/07/2008
Hillary has gone back to an old Viet Nam era method, Destroy the Party in order to Save it. Once she has napalmed the opposition she can declare her victory. Her one and only goal at the moment is the get the nomination­, what it does to the party she may think about later. When did the good of the party ever come into their calculatio­ns, certainly not when Bill had to decide whether to keep his zipper up. I guess her next plan is to savage McCain in the Clinton way.
By the way, has Hillary, the feminist's champion, ever apologized to the women whom her husband used? Did she ever say she was sorry for castigatin­g them and making accusation­s against them when he was the one lying all the time. She didn't have much concern for those females.
11:41 PM on 03/06/2008
Hillary is making the election about "who is ready to lead our military". Did she not realize that if she gets the nomination­, she will be running against a decorated war hero?

Her tactic make no sense, and only serve to build up a McCain win in the fall and rip the Democratic Party apart. And don't bother calling me an obmamaniac or anything else - I've voted Red my whole life, and this is the first time I'm considerin­g voting for a Dem.

Please, Hillary supporters­, explain to us all how saying that only she and McCain are ready to lead the military (Commander­-in-Chief'­s job, btw), helps do anything but rip the party apart. Are you Hillary supporters sick of it yet, or does it somehow make sense to you. Please fill me in on the logic.