Interview with Steve Hildebrand; Steve, Did you tell Progressives to Shut Up?

Interview done on the Rob Kall Radio Show, live, on WNJC 1360 AM, December 10. 2008

To hear the interview, click this link (good until Jan 10): Conference Recording

Rob: Okay. Hi, this is Rob Kall, The Rob Kall Radio Show, WNJC 1360. We've got a very interesting show tonight. A couple days ago, Steve Hildebrand, the Deputy National Campaign Director for the Obama Campaign, wrote an article, A Message to Obama's Progressive Critics. It raised a huge uproar, enough of an uproar so that it was discussed in all the major news outlets, it got talking heads and pundits talking about it. So, I invited Steve Hildebrand on the show and he's going to be with us in a couple of minutes. I'm going to read to you what people reacted to the most. He wrote it, so he'll know about it, but I want to read it to you. He says,

"I could go on and on. The point I'm making here is that the new President, Congress and all Americans must come together to solve these problems. This is not a time for the left wing of our party to draw conclusions about the cabinet and White House appointments that President-elect Obama is making. Some believe the appointments generally aren't progressive enough. Having worked with former Senator Obama for the last two years, I can tell you that isn't the way he thinks and it's not likely the way he will lead. The problems I mentioned above and the many I didn't, suggest that our President surround himself with the most qualified people to address these challenges. After all, he was elected to be the President of all the people, not just those on the left."

This got people outraged. And the response was all over the place. David Sirota wrote,

"Most progressives questioning Obama have done so rather gently and have done so on the pragmatic substance. For instance, people wondering about the appointment of Larry Summers to a top economic position in the White House have wondered whether it was such a good idea to empower such an ideological free market fundamentalist, pro-free trade, pro-deregulation, whose policies as Bill Clinton's Treasury Secretary played a major role in creating the economic crisis. That is, most have wondered why Obama thinks that kind of ideologue is the most qualified person to deal with our economic situation, rather than, say, a pragmatist like James Galbraith or Joseph Stiglitz who has been right all along."

So, that was a gentle one. If you look at DailyKos in the comments, OpEdNews in the comments and the Huffington Post, people have really vilified Steve. I'm expecting him to call in a minute and then we can get down to the conversation here. It's a challenging time. You know, I personally, I, by the time the primaries got to Pennsylvania, I was an Obama supporter. But I was just as much a Hillary opponent, because Hillary to me was, represented the more right-wing side of the Democratic Party and I saw Obama as a centrist. I certainly was never under the illusion that Obama was a progressive or a liberal, like the Republicans were saying. So, to me, I haven't been really surprised. I've been a little disappointed, but I haven't been surprised by the kind of appointments he's making. And I've written about it complaining because I'd like to see him move further to the left, but I haven't been outraged, I haven't been upset about it, but there are people who are. A lot of them. The percentages of people who identify themselves as liberal range in the polls from I think 18 to 24 percent and that's a lot of people. Twelve, fifteen million people who voted, maybe. So, it' s an interesting situation. Are you there, Steve?

Steve: I sure am, Rob.

Rob: Great! So, you know, let's start things off here. You've been accused of using what amounts to a four-letter acronym which means "shut the 'f' up" to progressives.

Steve: And that certainly is not what I intended. I was expressing my opinion and I wasn't telling other people what to do or what not to do. What I was suggesting is that, you know, Barack Obama ran on a platform to become President on change and on bringing people together and, he was supported and elected by some, you know, fifty-four, fifty-five percent -- I can't even remember what it was -- of the American people, and that, at a time when our country is facing so many very big problems that this is a time where the House and the Senate, political leaders all over the country, and Americans from all backgrounds really do need to come together if we want to solve these very big problems of healthcare for all, getting out of the war in Iraq, solving this economic crisis, dealing with climate change. There are a lot of big issues. And all I'm suggesting is that, this is a great time in this country for people to come together and solve the problems. This is not a great time for people to be sniping and trying to push their own agenda.

Rob: Well, you know, the other side of this, though, is that, you know, we won. And that, Obama won, not with the majority, perhaps, of liberals and progressives, but he wouldn't have won without them, certainly, and probably thirty to forty-five percent of his supporters were liberals and progressives, of the people who voted for him.

Steve: And I think there will not be any problem with President Obama representing the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. When he takes on the economic problems that we're facing, the people that are going to benefit most are lower income and middle income people, the working families of this country. And, if he doesn't take on this economic crisis, and deal with it first and foremost, those people are going to be the first to lose their jobs. They're going to be the first to lose their healthcare. They're going to be the first people that lose their homes, if they haven't already lost them to the mortgage crisis. And so, we as progressives, and I consider myself to be a very liberal person, rallying behind Barack Obama, and helping him get that economic crisis solved, is a pretty critically important piece, I would think, to liberal people in this country...

Rob: But the...

Steve: His calls for healthcare, for climate change, for getting health care for all people; these are progressive ideals and this is going to be the first and foremost on Barack's agenda.

Rob: I think, though, that what people read into what you wrote was that progressives shouldn't be discussing his appointments. Sort of, shouldn't be saying that they want him to appoint liberals or progressives to the remaining ones and that they shouldn't be complaining about the ones that he has appointed.

Steve: My point is that, people can complain if they want, but it's probably not helpful to solving the big problems that we face in this country. You know, people can do whatever they want to do. No one's going to sit around and just suggest that, you know, this kid from South Dakota is going to tell them what to do. All I'm suggesting is that we've got some big problems and a better way to solve them is to try and work together. You know, I'd like to see Barack Obama succeed as president -- not because I think the world of the guy but because if he succeeds, this country will succeed - and I think it's also a little bit disingenuous for people to over-generalize that his Cabinet choices to date are middle-of-the-road. A lot of these folks are not middle road -- Bill Richardson is not -- Tom Daschle, who I worked for, for a long period of time was thrown out of office by the voters here in South Dakota, because they thought he was too liberal. He had a liberal voting record when he was in the Senate. Eric Holder is a very good progressive -- to serve as attorney general and so you know most of the people frankly that President-elect Obama has surrounded himself in the White House with very progressive people. David Axelrod, Rham Emanuel, Pete Rouse, Valerie Jarred.

Rob: Whoa, whoa, whoa -- I have a hard time thinking of Rham Emanuel as progressive.

Steve: Of course he is.

Rob: my perspective of him is he's a guy who has on a number of occasions helped fund more conservative primary candidates -- Democratic primary candidates who were running against progressives who were doing pretty well.

Steve: Well, Rob you gotta look at his voting record -- you know he had a very progressive voting record in the House

Rob: Okay well you must know that he, amongst a lot of progressives, he's looked at as a very conservative guy -- don't you think?

Steve: That may be a perception that some people have; it certainly is not mine.

Rob: Okay well that's fair -- one of the readers on my show, OpEdNews.com, asked this question and you already answered half of it, from his recent votes to his choices for Cabinet -- she says -- Jersey girl says "the man has not shown one iota of progressive bent -- What are some tidbits of reality that I may be missing here?" What has he done that's progressive, since he's begun this transition process, and I'm glad you listed that list of appointees, 'cause that's helpful.

Steve: Well, first and foremost he has focused, very specifically on beginning what likely will be a long process of putting our economy back on track. Again, as I said the people that are going to benefit most are the working people in this country, who will be able to keep their jobs, or get new ones. They will be able to either keep their health care or get a new job and get health care -- that's pretty progressive. He has you know forwarded Tom Daschle as a person to lead up an effort to provide healthcare for all people.

Rob: I was going to ask you about -- what do you know about Daschle's attitude about universal health care or in general. The way that healthcare is moving here -- you've worked with him extensively.

Steve: I know a lot about him. You know, he recently wrote a book that was published and sold all around the country on, on getting healthcare for all -- it's not exactly the Obama plan. But I have no doubt that the two will work closely together to come up with a very progressive piece of legislation that I think can be successful if people will rally behind him. And I do think that there's a lot of people that are ready to go and make this a reality for once and for all.

Rob: that would be beautiful.

Steve: in terms of Tom Daschle - There are very few people that are more passionate about the healthcare issue than Tom Daschle and he was an unbelievably good choice for this position at health and human services.

Rob: and from what I hear the reason is he knows how to get things through the Congress.

Steve: that's one of the best reasons. He's damn good at it, and Rob just to go back to a quick point on Rham Emanuel-- thanks to the Internet and quick access - Tom - he voted with the Democratic Congress 97% of the time.

Rob: Alright. -

you've played a role as the political director of the Democratic Senatorial campaign committee - and are you still doing that now?

Steve: No that was several years back.

Rob: Several years ago but there was mention in an article recently that there is speculation that you might replace Howard Dean as chairman of the Democratic National Committee -- anything to that?

Steve: There was idle speculation to that, but it's not in my game plan.

Rob: Not in your game plan -- okay.

Steve: I think we need a very strong chair -- I think we need to build the DNC into the kind of machine that the Obama campaign had -- I think that's all very possible and I think there'll be some good candidates to fill that slot and I think there'll be a lot of folks like myself who want to be there to advise and help build a very, very strong party for the future.

Rob: Do you have any idea who would replace Dean.

Steve: I don't -- you know, obviously President Obama will have a big say in who that choice is and the state chairs -- the State Democratic chairs along with the DNC executive committee are meeting Friday and Saturday and there will be some discussion about that and exactly the process to go through to pick the new chairs, so we are a little ways down the road.

Rob: Your bio on wikipedia reports that you are openly gay

Steve: I sure am.

Rob: And I wonder, do you have any idea where Obama -- what position Obama is going to take on LGBT issues and that he will be facing in the military and otherwise.

Steve: Well he has been a strong advocate for the LGBT community -- you know, he -- he's one of the few politicians in this country, who regularly in major speeches, whether it was his 2004 convention speech -- his announcement speech for the presidency, a key speech down in Atlanta -- at MLK's church -- on MLK day or the convention speech of this year or the election night victory speech -- he regularly includes the LGBT community in his remarks and has a very strong opinion that the more he can use his platform to make more people accepting and move the LGBT community into the mainstream in a very serious way -- the more successful we are going to be as a community -- He has a very strong record in support on gay issues -- he was endorsed by the human rights campaign fund.

He was endorsed by the Philadelphia gay news right there in Philly and endorsed by a lot of the gay press around the country for the Presidency. So, you know, the community rallied behind him, he got a huge percentage of the gay vote in this country, and I think he'll do very well at moving forward with some pretty important issues to our community.

Rob: You were the deputy national campaign director running the national field operations , right?

Hildebrand: Correct.

Rob: The name of my radio show is Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show and part of the reason that I've gotten really interested in 'bottom up' is because of a conversation I had with Joe Trippi in April, where he basically observed that Hillary Clinton had run the most powerful, effective 'top down' campaign in history, but she was beat by Obama's 'bottom up' campaign.

Steve: Uh-huh.

Rob: What can you tell me about the philosophy that went into this 'bottom up'? I know Obama talks about 'bottom up' all the time particularly now when he talks about economic solutions. But I'm curious how it was applied to your work in the campaign.

Steve: Well, it really came from Barack in terms of the philosophy surrounding his campaign. There was a small group of about eight of us who regularly met with he and Michele in the two months leading up to his decision to run for the Presidency, a small group trying to advise him on whether or not this campaign for the Presidency made any sense and if so, how to do it. In one of those last meetings, Rob, he said, " If lightning were to strike and I actually won the Presidency, that would be pretty phenomenal, but what if, in the situation that we're in in Washington right now, where our country is so polarized, where the political parties are so polarized, what if we can build a grassroots movement for change that we can bring to Washington with us so that we have the wind at our back and we can get something done?"

And that was really him stating that, " If I'm going to run for this office, I want to build a national grassroots movement for change that doesn't just help me get elected but it helps me pass my agenda in Washington." And that's a lot of what we're talking about right now is: how do we use the support of these millions and millions of Americans and try and make them have a stronger voice in passing important legislation in this country than what the corporate lobbyists' voices are? I think that he's got all the potential in the world to be successful at this. It was really Barack stating the kind of campaign and the kind of Presidency that he wanted even before he got into this; so it was really his design.

Rob: Now, what you just told me was that it was Barack's vision that directed your campaign. How did you implement that differently than you had in previous campaigns?

Steve: I've always been very much a grassroots, kind of a field general. I believe that organizing at the local level is critical. It is a more important way to win an election than just through expensive television advertising. That's been my background and a lot of us that came to his campaign in the leadership level have that similar background. So it was taking his philosophy and marrying it with our organizing skills and background and implementing it.

It was important from the kind of language that he used, starting with his announcement speech two years ago, where he stated that it's time for America to take Washington back from the lobbyists and the special interests that control this country. And he invited people to join in as part of that important aspect of the campaign. We went out, starting with the Iowa caucuses, the first contest in the Presidential election, and built a very 'bottom up' campaign, putting regular people in charge of their own destiny, so to speak.

We went through that 50-state primary with Hillary Clinton and each step of the way we were working to organize people locally. We had neighborhood teams and neighborhood captains. We had more volunteers come to this campaign and spend more of their time than any campaign in history. It was just remarkable.

Rob: I was a volunteer for Kerry and I was a volunteer for Obama and the difference, locally, in terms of the organization, the energy, the planning was just phenomenal. It was light years ahead.

Steve: We're really proud of what we were able to do. It was Barack's vision but it's also the fact that he's a very inspirational person to rally behind.

Rob: Now, that's an interesting observation. Everybody says he's inspirational. What I've seen is there's a kind of leadership that is a 'bottom up' leadership. I'm going to have Tim Carpenter on shortly after this interview. He's the head of Progressive Democrats of America and I've seen him work, and his leadership is very 'bottom up.' Are there ways that you would describe how Obama takes a kind of a 'bottom up' leadership approach?

Steve: He's a guy who -- I've know him just over two years now -- what I've seen from day one and through the end of the campaign was he's a guy who wants strong input from all kinds of people at all kinds of levels. He doesn't just sit around and let the lobbyists do the talking. He's somebody who engages people in important conversations to try and find resolutions to difficult problems. He's already out there asking people to provide their health care stories and to use some of those things to help shape the kind of health care bill that ultimately he will move forward. He uses his strong voice to invite the American people to have a seat at the table and he will, throughout his administration, ask the American people to rally behind important items on his agenda that we need to get passed to help get this country moving again. If there are times when Congress gets in the way, he's going to call upon the American people to sort of raise their voices and make sure that their voices are a lot stronger than the lobbyists' in Washington.

Rob: Which brings us back to the original topic of the conversation, which was the accusation from the blogosphere that you had kind of told the progressives to shut the f up. It doesn't sound at all like Obama's attitude would be that he wouldn't want to hear from people. Not at all.

Steve: Again, that's language that people used to criticize the column that I wrote for [the]Huffington Post, that is not the language I actually used in that column.

Rob: Of course, I didn't mean to suggest that.

Steve: No, I understand, I just want to be clear that first of all, I don't use that kind of language when I write in a public forum. But it's also... you know, it's not the way I talk to people. I'm an inclusive person. I believe everyone should have a voice of their own. I was simply making the point that we were going to be more successful as a country if we rally behind these very, very important items -- climate change, the economy, health care, etc. -- and really try and accomplish some things. And it doesn't mean that people can't go out and speak on their own -- they have their own choice and their own voice -- but I do believe that we will be more successful if we get behind this guy and really work to solve some very important problems.

Rob: And how would you advise progressives who are not thrilled with his choices so far, who have their own wishes and goals... what would you suggest is the best way to get their goals met while at the same time doing what they can to help Obama? Because I believe that most people... the attitude I have is that Obama could be a truly great president. He has the potential to be a great man, and I want him to succeed in all ways possible in spite of the fact that I am not thrilled with some of his current choices.

Steve: Tell me who you are not thrilled with and tell me why.

Rob: Geithner, the New York Fed Reserve head... This is a guy who is so in with all the people who are involved with the problems, he just carries so much of the history of it along with him. Gates. I would have liked to have seen somebody new, but I do understand the thinking behind keeping some continuity there. And there are a lot of others that I'm not particularly criticizing, that other people are. I'm kind of voicing what I've heard from an awful lot of other people. And then there are all the Hilary people. It would have been nice to see others, but on the other hand, I know -- what are you going to do? Pick seventy year old people that Jimmy Carter picked? He's gotta pick from pre-experienced people who were Democrats and Democratic presidential administrations. So he's stuck, in a sense, with the Clinton crew.

Steve: Well, you know, President Clinton was, by all accounts, one of the best presidents this country has ever had. You know, we were at peace, we had an economy that was rolling better than at any point in history, more jobs were created, you know... people were doing pretty well under his presidency, and so to pick some of the best people from back a few years ago... you know, I can't say that that is a bad thing. You know, we were a pretty successful country at that time. He took a significant deficit and made it into a surplus, and those were good times. So, you know, I can't say... I mean, people like Carol Browner to be his Energy Czar - I think that's an incredible choice. Putting Hilary Clinton at State - I think that's a very smart move for him, and for this country and for this world. Eric Holder at justice, I mean, he's going to be fantastic - he's a great progressive.

Rob: If he gets through the Senate confirmations.

Hildebrand: I think he will.

Rob: My senator here in Pennsylvania, Arlen Specter, looks like he's going to give him some flack.

Hildebrand: Well, Arlen Specter is in the minority, thank god.

Rob: Any last words on advice to progressives on how they could be, I don't know, more synergistic in their criticism and their observations?

Steve: Look, I don't want to tell anybody to not use their voice as they choose to use it. What I would say is that I do know President Elect Obama really quite well, and I know how he operates, and I know how he thinks, and I'm not saying that anybody else needs to have this same level of trust, but what I would say is you can trust this guy to do the right thing. He is the boss, and he is gonna implement a progressive agenda that will move this country forward, and I believe in the end people will be very pleased with his presidency.

Rob: I'll tell you, the other day, on Sunday, when he was doing the press conference for Shinseki, and he took that position on the Chicago factory worker's sit-in, that was incredible. The next day it kind of dawned on me that this was his most progressive act yet: speaking in solidarity with workers, protesting in a factory. What president in history has ever done anything like that before? It gave me chills when I realized it. That was a progressive thing to do. And that's the kind of decisive, off the cuff response that I think really defines the kind of man he is. I think he needs to pick more centrist appointees to get through the system in Washington.

Steve: Going back to your point that you were very pleasantly surprised to see what he did with the Chicago workers... Probably my most important point in the column that I wrote for [the]Huff Post was, give this guy a chance. He will prove to be a great progressive president, and, you know, we have too many problems not to rally behind him and help him get them done.

Rob: Great. Now, do you have any... What are you doing now? What do you plan on doing and do you have a website or anything you want to tell us about?

Steve: I am back at my consulting firm, Hildebrand Tewes Consulting. We have offices in Washington, D.C., as well as in my home town of Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where I live. We do a lot of work for progressive organizations, liberal candidates for the House and Senate and Governor, and work with a lot of labor unions. I plan to be a very outspoken voice to help Barack Obama be successful in any way possible.

Rob: Great. Thanks so much!

Steve: Absolutely. I appreciate the invitation to be on your show.

Rob: Pleasure. Hopefully we can have you back again sometime.

Steve: Sure. Bye bye.

Transcribed by Carla Gilby, Amanda Moreno, Paula Sayles, Linda Carraway, Jim Magee. Edited by Jay Farrington.

Crossposted from OpEdNews.com

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