Robert Creamer

Robert Creamer

Posted: July 6, 2008 07:53 PM

Progressives Must Guard Against Helping to Promote Republican Narrative That Alleges Obama "Flip Flops"

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The Republican spin machine is locked and loaded to promote the notion that Barack Obama is a "flip flopper." Four years ago it was their principal line of attack against Kerry and it worked like a charm.

In 2004, the goal of this narrative was to convince swing voters that Kerry had no core values -- that his positions and commitments were blown by the winds of public opinion just as he was blown right and left in the notorious campaign ad of Kerry wind-surfing.

Not long after the 2004 election, I was in a New Jersey taxicab. The driver was a typical male New Jersey cabbie. "So what do you think of Corzine?" I asked. "Oh, Corzine, tough guy. Like him," he replied about the then-Senator.

"What do you think of Bush?" I asked. "Like him too. Tough guy. Stands up for what he believes," came the answer.

"What about Kerry?" I asked. "Kerry? Can't stand him. Flip-flopper."

People want leaders who are firmly committed to their values. The key thing that affected the New Jersey cabbie's view wasn't the positions or views of the candidates. It was whether they stood up for what they believed. There are many independent voters just like him.

I believe that John Kerry has very clear values, but he left himself open to be defined to swing voters as if he didn't.

Barack Obama is firmly committed to progressive values that contrast sharply with the values implicit in necon foreign policy and dog-eat-dog, survival-of-the-fittest Bush-McCain economic policies.

Obama is much less likely than Kerry was to allow himself to be characterized as a flip-flopper without core values, because his entire campaign is rooted in the discussion of values. It has drawn very sharp distinctions with Republicans on the critical symbolic questions of Iraq, the economy and health care. But that won't keep Republicans from doing everything they can to try to make Obama look like he is a "typical politician" without a moral core the same way they did with Kerry.

Last week's near-frenzy in the media over Obama's alleged "move to the center" on Iraq had no substance whatsoever. It was fed, virtually entirely, by the Republican National Committee and the McCain campaign that simply asserted that his statements on Iraq represented a "change " from earlier positions. That narrative was picked up and parroted by various media pundits as if it were true.

Unfortunately, some Progressives fell prey to the media wave and actually gave credence to this non-story, when the fact is that Obama has consistently supported ending the war in Iraq and withdrawing all combat troops within 16 months, at a pace that is responsive to the situation on the ground.

Progressives have to remember that the Republicans don't care about the nuances of these issues. Their goal is simple: make Obama look like he is changing his position.

All Progressives don't agree with every position Barack Obama has taken, but the fact is that very few of his positions have changed since the campaign began.

Progressives who disagree with Barack Obama but at the same time don't want to help Republicans usher in a third Bush term need to remember three things:

1). Go right ahead and disagree with an Obama position or statement -- but disagree on the substance. Don't impute some venal motive. Remember that even when you disagree with him on an issue or policy, Obama shares our progressive values.

2). Don't reinforce the Republican narrative that Obama is a "flip flopper." Disagreeing with an Obama position is very different from arguing that he agreed with you once, but now has changed positions just to win favor with the voters. First, that is generally wrong. Second, if Obama emphasizes one aspect of a position instead of another in order to attract a particular group of voters, that does not mean he "changed" his position. Third, remember that the Republicans are desperate to get Progressives to confirm their narrative and convince guys like my New Jersey taxi driver to elect John McCain.

3). Remember that there is a huge gulf between the values of Obama and McCain. Obama stands clearly in the progressive tradition of giving every human being equal opportunity to fulfill their potential. McCain stands squarely on the side of ultra-conservative values that protect the power and prerogatives of the wealthiest among us.

Obama stands firmly against the neocon foreign policies of preemptive war and unilateral action that lay at the root of the worst American foreign policy disaster in a generation. McCain stands just as firmly for the neocon vision and the Bush approach to the rest of the world.

Obama believes that economic growth happens from the bottom up and doesn't trickle down on the rest of us. He supports the rights of workers to organize to defend their standard of living, and a world where we're all in this together, not all in this alone. McCain intends to continue Bush's economic policies that have assured that all of the economic growth in the last seven years has gone to the wealthiest 1% of Americans.

Obama understands that our world faces the greatest environmental crisis in history as we seek to prevent human beings from altering our climate. First and foremost, John McCain's loyalties lie with the oil industry.

We need to remember that John McCain's campaign is managed by lobbyists from the biggest special interests in America, while Barack Obama understands the need to mobilize tens of millions of Americans to change Washington from the ground up.

Progressives should go right ahead and question Obama's positions on issues -- and they should continue to hold him accountable when he is elected president. But remember that the Republicans are desperate to convince independent voters that Obama is "just another politician" whose values flow from the latest poll instead of his own commitment to principle. Don't help them. If you do you will be wrong, and you will also help the Republicans fulfill their unthinkable fantasy of a third Bush term.


Robert Creamer is a long time political organizer and strategist, and author of the recent book "Stand Up Straight: How Progressives Can Win," available on Amazon.com.

The Republican spin machine is locked and loaded to promote the notion that Barack Obama is a "flip flopper." Four years ago it was their principal line of attack against Kerry and it worked lik...
The Republican spin machine is locked and loaded to promote the notion that Barack Obama is a "flip flopper." Four years ago it was their principal line of attack against Kerry and it worked lik...
 
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- Javani I'm a Fan of Javani 6 fans permalink

Would it please you to use the word Obama openly uses, "pivot". Obama's a pivoter.

"Don't impute some venal motive."

No venal motive? The McVain and the Pivoter are both vain. They are the vainest candidates since John Kerry, and before that, you would have to go back to Stevenson for a candidate of equal, open vanity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 PM on 07/07/2008
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venal: 1: capable of being bought or obtained for money or other valuable consideration : purchasable; especially : open to corrupt influence and especially bribery : mercenary
2: originating in, characterized by, or associated with corrupt bribery

vain: 1: having no real value : idle, worthless
2: marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful, useless
3archaic : foolish, silly
4: having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : conceited

Merriam-Webster disctionary

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 07/07/2008
- Javani I'm a Fan of Javani 6 fans permalink

Ouch! My first language is not English! Thank you for the correction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 07/07/2008
- leeskyblue I'm a Fan of leeskyblue 3 fans permalink
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Both Obama and McCain have much in common: They both have chosen advisors who have come to the same shrewd conclusion -- break your word, break faith with the trust you have won, but do it brazenly, not like Kerry or Dukakis. If you are brazen in your dishonesty, then you are not perceived as a flip-flopper --you are someone who has boldly and fearlessly "moved to the center". Whatever is the "center" is never defined, of course.
Sadly, there is only one thing to do -- spend our time and money electing as many liberal Democrats as we can, and even a few Republicans who genuinely believe in the Constitution. Does it matter who wins the top spot? -- Which promises are we to rely upon either of them to keep?
Forget about those two hollow shells of candidates. Clearly neither of them has any real vision or goals, but a strong Congress may make one or the other of them honest.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 07/07/2008

There is much truth to what you say, a fine post. Elect candidates that will believe in the constitution. Well done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:54 PM on 07/07/2008
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thanks for this well excellete article. This morning a media pundit hit it on the head and said that our politics and politicians are out of date. We look at every candidate with two deminsional lenses when Obama and his positions have always been three if not more deminsional. My point: The gun issue. Obama has always been for a persons constitutianal right to bear arms regardelss of weather or not he agrees with it. He does want states to locally make thier desition based on what is going on in thier cities etc. A gun band would be good in the streets of LA, where as small town USA where hunting is popular, not so much...thr­ee deminsianl thinking. keep up people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 07/07/2008

Keep in mind: every time any one of you (Liberal, Progressive, Independent, Hillaryite) adopt the words "flip-flop" to describe Obama, you are helping the Republicans elect John McCain!

Keep it up, folks! The GOP loves it!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 07/07/2008

Hate to burst your bubble-Even the republicans aren't voting for McCain

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:31 PM on 07/07/2008
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Actually, that's terrific! I'm sure druidlady42 would agree. (maybe you missed her sarcasm)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 07/07/2008

Sorry, druidlady.­..the DNC launched that ship weeks ago. They annointed the candidate most likely to lose. Thank you Howard Dean and Donna Brazille for reducing our party to cult status.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 AM on 07/08/2008
- Terriac I'm a Fan of Terriac 12 fans permalink
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I couldn't agree more. If people would read Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope, they would see that he really has not changed in his views. While I consider the extreme right wing to be basically dangerous to our nation as a whole, I also don't think it's in anyone's best interest to be extreme left either. Have a little faith. I firmly believe Obama will do what he promises to do to the best of his ability. If these cries of flip-flopper and the like continue from his core constituency, we will be watching McCain be sworn in in January. I'll be royaly pissed if this country makes such a huge error again. Bush was enough. Everyone just chill. We finally have a candidate that we can truly believe in, probably the best that we've had come along in a long while. Let's not blow it, folks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 07/07/2008
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
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This line of reasoning is getting old. We're not the one's "blowing it"... Obama is, as are you for trying to facilitate this unconstitutional BS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:39 PM on 07/07/2008
- Lion24 I'm a Fan of Lion24 110 fans permalink
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I don't have time to read "The Audacity of Hope." I'm too busy trying to figure out how I can ever HOPE to fill up my Honda with gasoline without having to take out a mortgage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:00 PM on 07/07/2008

I will not play politics. If Obama votes for telecom immunity, he becomes a liar and, although I hate the word, flip-flopper. As far as I am concerned, this is an issue of supreme importance. It cannot be swept under the rug. Telecom immunity is just plain wrong under any circumstances. If he votes for it, he puts himself in the same class as bush.

Let the republicans win for all I care. At least you know what you're going to get with them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 PM on 07/07/2008
- Grit I'm a Fan of Grit 6 fans permalink

YES we know what we will get from the republicans. But isn't America's tush sore enough yet? I guess its ok to assume the position for the republicans, again, if you don't agree 100% with Obama. It really does not matter, the republicans will just steal it again anyway. And they will get away with it like everything else they have done because the citizens are too busy too stupid or too ignorant (maybe all three) to do anything about it.. They say Obama is trying to play to the center. As far as Iam concerned he has always been in the center. But I am not sure there is a center anymore. Just some people that are too ignorant to make a decision, and probably won't vote anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 07/07/2008

Major mistake on your part.

People are not stupid, ignorant , busy,or uneducated because they disagree with you. If you are so smart find a way to get through with your message. Otherwise people will smile and vote against you. How do you look then? Same as 2000 and 2004.

No one steals elections. They are lost because you alienate those you court to your side.This statement is the epitomy of a losing proposition.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 PM on 07/07/2008
- GiveUsFree I'm a Fan of GiveUsFree 21 fans permalink
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What? You sound completely stupid! I could care less about suing the telecoms for money. If you want to stand on your high horse, criminally go after Bush and his cronies for the warrantless wiretaps. They gave the orders. Go after the Media for not covering the stolen OHIO election, for helping Bush lie us into the WAR in IRAQ. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. "Let the republicans win for all I care." This is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Yes, I full well know what we're going to get, but what I can't imagine is how much more damage they can do in another 4 years. How about WWIII? Obama is a safer bet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:28 PM on 07/07/2008

No one stole the "Ohio" election. That is a kool aid talking point.

Franklin Roosevelt was less then truthful with the American people leading up to WW2. In fact by some historians, Roosevelt was considered to be a liar who may have broke the laws of the time. He also imprisoned thousands of Americans of Japanese descent, wrongly.

He did what he thought was right for the country at the time. Despite his mistakes I applaud him for doing what he thought was right. It took a lot of courage.

It is not helpful to throw around "criminal" etc. when past actions were not judged by partisanship. I think it is a big mistake to do it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 PM on 07/07/2008
- Terriac I'm a Fan of Terriac 12 fans permalink
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You may know what you're getting, but we all know it will be awful. You might as well take out an ad that calls all Republicans to use this as fodder in the campaign. Look deeper. Read Obama's book, if you haven't already. From everything I can tell, Obama will do the right thing. He's all about compromising, working things through to reach the best place. Give him a chance. I don't like giving the Telecoms immunity either, but as president, he will be in a much better position to effect the changes that this country needs, including as to this issue. Until then, perhaps a compromise of sorts is the best answer, even if it seems to go against everything Progressives believe in. I certainly don't want McBush in there. There will be no compromise. Just their way or the highway. I may just take the highway, in that event. I wish everyone would just have a little faith and trust.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 07/07/2008
- tbone99 I'm a Fan of tbone99 93 fans permalink

Are you a Maoist ? Whats with "read The Leaders words- they contain all wisdom"

.Do you and the others constantly demanding we read Obama's book carry that book in your pockets to consult when you are perplexed.­?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:18 AM on 07/08/2008
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
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This is a FLIP FLOP:

Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+said+he+would+support+Dodd+filibuster&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Literally hundreds of links to the relevant information. Being a strong supporter of Democratic ideals does not mean a no-questions, the great-lead­er-can-do-­no-wrong mentality. It is exactly the OPPOSITE. Now, I know we have a lot of new Democrats in the fold this cycle, but let's not forget what we are about, hmm?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 07/07/2008
- kee I'm a Fan of kee permalink

Robert, thank you for being the voice of reason. Progressives' banging on Obama has alienated me. It's ridiculous to think or expect that Obama would cling to the far left without expressing his own faith, for example. Obama has tauted his Christian faith throughout this campaign and it sickens me to see the Obama base attacking him daily, if not hourly. He has a right to want an inclusive platform. It is very consistent with Obama's message of change -- to not cower to any specific group/groups, or set of ideas/ideals. Thanks again! It's time to look at the broader picture and ensure a Democratic victory, not tear the change movement down!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 07/07/2008
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The presumptions of those fighting to make America stupid notwithstanding, people who need more than a soundbite to express a complex idea are not just getting off on the sound of their own voice. Obama clearly chooses words carefully, clearly places a high value on intelligently articulating ideas, therefore, he has a great need to be quoted in context. The way things work nowadays, where every five sentences one speaks get rounded off into a few words that only remotely approximate one's meaning, Obama will be continually finding himself seriously misinterpreted by certain folks among us. The real answer would be if this entire sort of problem that I've just described could be conveyed in one, brand new, cool-sounding, monosyllabic word. Just say that word to someone, and it'll mean they've over-soundbited (only, "over-soundbited" is too intellectu­al-soundin­g, too easy to deflect with a wave of the hand).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 07/07/2008

You're absolutely correct. Obama is a flip flopper and as been for a long time. It occured during the primaries. but alll the obamamaniacs ignored it. Samantha Powers got the ax for what she said about the middle east and they covered it up with her comment about Hillary. The Canadian jpress was leaked Obama's truie(?) fellings on NAFTA but the jpress basically ignored what was being siad. Obama flip- flopped about Israel and most of the Democratic Jews refused to listen because they were taken in as was everyone else. Obama cannot be trusted. He is a Chicago poll and whatever is expedient he says. When he is called on his flip=flopping he calmly tells us "I misspoke" or that we didn't understand what he meant. He always has a glib response to get out of being confronted. I have heard him say to reporters I naswered that question before and I'm not gooing to repeat myself. This occured not that long ago when he was asked something that was controversial and he had flip-flopped on it. He has fooled a lot of lpeople and I don't know how long this will continue but it sure does get me angry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 07/07/2008
- Dansden I'm a Fan of Dansden 11 fans permalink

JUST BECAUSE SEN. MCBUSH is a flip-flopper is NO JUSTIFICATION for Sen. Obama to be one, too...
are all Sen. Obamabots under 30 years old to reflect such naivete...­...??????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 07/07/2008
- Dansden I'm a Fan of Dansden 11 fans permalink

This ridiculous article is representative of the stupid thinking NOW in the Democratic Party- coming from a long time supporter of the Democratic Party! It is not PROGRESSIVE DEMS who need to change our conversation- it's the DEM LEADERS who need to change their politics-
We, millions of us, told you that Sen. Obama was too inexperienced, too naive, too influenced by big money and too 'Repub' leaning to be the standard bearer for our Party, BUT, no- the Dem leaders and the media whores jumped on the bandwagon that we knew would come to a dead stop once the cheerleaders started thinking instead of drinking the 'corporate kool-aid'!

Who is being helped by Sen. Obama's vote for this FISA BILL- BIG BUSINESS!.­...DUH!!!!­!
SOUND FAMILAIR- LIKE THE LAST 30 YEARS SINCE RONNIE RAYGUN....­..

Wake up, Democratic Party- it's not the hard-working, freedom-loving and citizen-voting Americans who are wrong- it's the leaders who have received their PAY-OFFS BY CORPORATE AMERICA- the same corporate entities who are BANKRUPTING, POLLUTING, AND DESTOYING AMERICA'S CREDIBILITY AND TREASURY!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 07/07/2008
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
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Agree 1000% (900% more than possible!)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 07/07/2008

I agree. Corporate types are Repibs and Democrats as well. They lost their connection to the ordinary person along the way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:13 PM on 07/07/2008
- MaeScott I'm a Fan of MaeScott 15 fans permalink
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McCain is the quintessential flipper..f­aster than lightning.
Amazing for one whose threescor and ten...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 07/07/2008

It's over people. You can go back to your day jobs now. This issue is hereby moot. That is, whether the Obama campaign flipped like slippery fish these past 3 weeks -- or whether that is simply a figment of the imagination of closet Rush listeners -- is a moot question.

This is because, as of this morning, the Obama campaign shifted into "It's the Bankrupt Economy, Stupid" mode.

Indeed, in today's NYTimes piece on this, McCain's staff said they would stick to economic issues between now and November. Did I read that right? McCain's staff decided that? Ha!

Holy fatal blunder, Batman! We "Husseins" can now dance and rejoice together -- we cult members and we party-poopers. There's no way Obama is losing now (unless Axelrod and Plouffe once again force our man back out there with dancing shoes and a beggar's cap, to do that pathetic divisive issue two-step).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 07/07/2008
- nomobull I'm a Fan of nomobull 45 fans permalink
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put up proof or shut up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 07/07/2008
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
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Your statements are pretty weak and devoid of any stated ideals to be making this aggressive a stand. Why don't you refute it with your own information? This is just a shallow excuse for not doing your own homework.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:07 PM on 07/07/2008

Huh? I threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall in this comment. Which strands are you objecting to?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 07/07/2008

In my original comment, I describe two dominant camps on this thread as "cult members" vs. "party-poopers".

A nicer way of saying the same thing is "Obama Loyalists" vs. "Obama's Better Angels".

What's interesting is the two commenters on this comment represent each camp. That is, nomobull seems like an Obama Loyalist; joemOmma seems like an Obama Better Angel.

Given this, I'm puzzled what upset the loyalist. Isn't he happy to hear the good news that victory is now assured?

As for joemOmma -- the better angel -- I can't tell to whom his criticism is directed.

But it would be interesting if it was directed to me. It mean that I have managed to piss off both sides -- by declaring victory for both sides, no less!

Oh man, we on the left need therapy after these past 28 years of wandering the desert.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 07/07/2008
- kizzie I'm a Fan of kizzie 7 fans permalink

I'm an Independent that leans Dem. We do have alternatives. And when your sick to your stomach for what is going on in this country's political system, you start looking at other alternatives to show your disgust and make a statement that you aren't going to put up with it anymore.
Right now I"m going Nader. At least he is not politically connected, has no lobbyists beating at his door, and believes in the constitution and upholding it.
Everyone calls him a spoiler, but when you come right down to it, it"s another alternative for those of us who have had enough.
What is wrong with our system is we want to pulverize anyone and blame someone else for the failures of our candidate of choice. Nothing is going to change till we stand up for what is right and show our diddent with "politics as usual".
Barr is another alternative if you don't like Nader.
We DO have other choices, and you might want to start researching them and making a stand for what you believe in instead of holding your nose while you cast your vote. It definitely will send a signal to our political parties.
I'm not looking for someone I'd like to have a beer with, or has a great personality. I'm looking for someone wh owill fight for our constitution and not be bought by the lobbyists stranglehold on our interests. A good personality or looking good are not good reasons for casting a vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:48 PM on 07/07/2008
- nomobull I'm a Fan of nomobull 45 fans permalink
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not

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:19 PM on 07/07/2008

What you say makes a lot of sense, but I wonder, will it do anything for my country? Absolutely not! Voting for Nader or Barr will only give one or the other candidates an easy way into the White House by default, so all you would be doing is voting for one of the two candidates without technically casting your vote for either.

Your logic seems terrible on this situation. Any person that cares about this country, their family, and neighbors really need to cast a vote for either Obama or McCain, select the lesser of two evils, so to speak, because waisting a vote on Nader or Barr will only give Obama or McCain the White House, which is terrible if McCain wins by default.

People need to realize that no one is perfect, yep, not even presidential candidates, but it is a clear choice in values and policies between the two candidates and Obama seems to be headed in a better direction on the two. This election is too important to throw votes in the wrong direction for the sake of making a political statement to the world, that is really going to cost us more jobs, home foreclosures, healthcare issues, etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 07/07/2008

The problem is that the corporations own both the Dems & Repubs. We deal with the 2 wings of the Corporate Party. Although I can understand Obama positioning himself to be more "centrist" I think that it's defeatist. He should be saying, I"m proud to be a liberal. Look what these corporate (expletive deleted) have done to America. He shoud say, "are you better off than you were 4 years ago? And then link their dissatisfaction to the Repubs and their corporate Dem allies (example: Senator Dianne Feinstein). Americans want change, they don't want corporate Democrats. Besides, "centrist" Dems have lost the past several presidential elections. Americans don't want Repub "lite"; they'll vote for the real thing unless given a real alternative. The Obama who won the primaries was an alternative. As a so-called "centrist" Hillary Clinton supporters can rightly say that they were pushed offstage, since Hillary is and was a corporate Dem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 PM on 07/08/2008
- rebeccaj I'm a Fan of rebeccaj 6 fans permalink

@kizzie Funny how you didn't post here until recently. I assume you are one of the many GOP trolls coming here to encourage folks to vote for Nader.

Yawn.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:34 PM on 07/07/2008
- killmenow I'm a Fan of killmenow 40 fans permalink
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Americans still don't get it went it comes to voting for a President. We are not voting for an individual, as much as our hyper-consumers otherwise-known-as "citizens" want to believe that we are. We are voting for a party. You can hope that this is the time that a third party leader can and will become President, but logical, sane, rational people know voters are not going to turn en mass to an Independent or third party candidate. You have to give the Democrats the opportunity to allow the corporate lobbyists to bribe them into looking after private, corporate interests over the interests of individual Americans as they have been, and when the Dems look as bad as the Republicans, THEN a third party will look appealing. As it is now, you must vote Democrat if you have any reasonable hope. It doesn't really matter at this point who it is or what he said or did or what religion he is. We have our nominee. Now shut up and vote Democrat or just stay home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 07/07/2008
- GiveUsFree I'm a Fan of GiveUsFree 21 fans permalink
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You all sound stupid! You are willing to risk another republican administration over one issue. I bet most of you on here are McBushites.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 07/07/2008
- j0em0mma I'm a Fan of j0em0mma 37 fans permalink
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A person with that handle "GiveUsFree" is going to call debasement of the Constitution just another issue?! It is THE issue. A secondary issue is that Obama LIED to us to get our support and money to win the primary, now feels he can abandon us for some mythical political center, an excuse, because what is actually happening is a drive for corporate dollars and sponsorship. They know they can't give to Obama too directly, but they can NOT give to the Repubs, which translates into even better return.

Grow UP and quit excusing Obama out of hand. If we all unify and hold him to his word, we might be able to get him to swing back to reality. All of you saying "wait 'til the election" yada yada yada: This is the ONLY time we will have the power to do anything. Be Americans! Help you elected officials honor their commitment to preserve and defend the constitution. This is not just some issue, this is the defining issue of our time when we see if we will remain the beacon of freedom and liberty for the world, or descend into another failed and violent Imperium. Choice is yours...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 07/07/2008
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