Condi Must Go!
Thanks to a new report from ABC News, we now know that Condoleezza Rice led White House meetings authorizing torture that were so detailed, "the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed."
How can we express the terrible shock we have felt from the fact that our government is using torture? How can we express what so many of us are thinking -- that it is absolutely appalling to know that our representatives are implementing barbaric instruments of torture as policy? How do we express our moral outrage?
Perhaps more importantly, how do we begin to take steps towards ending this heinous crime? Sign the petition and demand Secretary of State Rice to resign.
Our allies at True Majority, USAction, and Democracy for America have launched a campaign to start calling out our leaders by focusing on Condoleezza Rice. No, she is not the president. But we want to call attention to the fact that the Secretary of State called for torture when she was National Security Adviser.
This is our campaign to get all three presidential nominees to call for Rice's resignation. Accountability must start with her, especially now that she's being mentioned as a potential vice presidential candidate. We want to push all the presidential candidates on this issue. They need to make a public stance: Condi Must Go!
Join us in taking action. Join us in creating a firestorm while the traditional media is missing in action. Join us in spreading the word to mobilize our country. We cannot tolerate officials with a blatant disregard for human rights!
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"persons guilty of violating the laws of war were not entitled to claim its benefits"
Read it and weep, people....
Terrorists and Terrorism are not afforded Geneva Convention Protection
Michale...
Wait a minute.
That applies to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al.
Good argument Michale. Hadn't thought of that!
Nice try..
But Congress, including your Democrats, gave Bush all the legal authority he needs..
But I am glad to see you concede the point that terrorists do not get Geneva Convention protection
Michale...
Here is how I signed the petition:
The highest ranking individuals responsible for America having become a nation that practices torture sully our nation's honor and deserve to be held accountable in a court of law.
The overdue resignation of Condi "It was just a historical briefing" Rice should be merely the preamble to justice -- the first step toward an emergence into light, a return to the spirit of the Founding Fathers who charged us with a "duty" to cast off "despotism" in the Declaration of Independence, the stature of the Constitution, and above all... the Rule of Law.
There are now 25,547 signers, oop, make it 25,602 and counting.
Please help make it 100,000 -- so the sponsors can deliver the petition to all three Presidential candidates.
one more
signed
I'd rather have her prosecuted but that can come later.
Now what university is it she wants to return to? I say NO WAY
What part of this is shocking? This is the woman who was too incompetent to understand "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the US". She's self-centred, unenlightened, cowardly, and ineffective. Just like torture.
When you lay down with big bush dogs, you get little bush fleas, condi. You are intelligent you knew very well you were being set-up, but you liked the $$$$$$$$$$ and the job. You should have walked with Colin. Naw!! You defended that idiot boss of yours and now look fool......
It's torture to have this war criminal represent our great nation.
It is a well known fact that torture and sexual perversity go together hand in hand. (See the Nazi torture chamber video)
Some people get a sick sexual satisfaction from torture or the idea of torture.
I suspect that is exactly what Cheney, Rice and the other "High ranking Administration officials" were getting with their detailed discussions of whom to torture and what methods to use.
Would it surprise anyone to find out that Dick Cheney is a sick, perverted SOB?
Didn't think so.
Ahhh the vaunted logical Democrat argument against torture...
So typical of the ignorant..
Michale
Are you denying the connection between torture and sexual perversity? Sado Masochism.
Personally I don't have any familiarity with it but . .
Michale, what Durango wrote was not an argument against torture, logical or otherwise. It was speculation about the psychology of the alleged torturers.
Meanwhile, you'll click on some S&M porn sites and do what comes
Remember Scooter's book?
Ms. Rice's incompetence [she has accomplished nothing thus far] is such that we are probably better off with her in office rather than seeing her replaced someone who may be capable of doing actual harm.
I read the ABC article and they , not once, use the word torture. It actually goes into great detail the procedure that the CIA operatives went through before interrogat
Why then did we execute Japanese soldiers for waterboarding our toops in WW2?
It was torture & war crimes then, but now it's a comfy chair & fluffy pillows?
Please. You & Michael are embarrassing yourselves.
Actually, rwe is dead on balls accurate..
And it's you who are fighting against your own party that supported and passed the MCA...
Isn't it possible that your entire government, both Democrats and Republicans are RIGHT and YOU are wrong??
Isn't that slightly possible???
No??
So, who actually is the close-minded one??
Michale...
As others have said, until GWB came along, we considered water boarding to be torture. Even if you want to argue that it's not torture, do you really want to claim that we are barbaric and abusive, but we don't torture? What kind of a person are you? Disgusting. Especially given that there is absolutely no evidence that it has produced any meaningful results.
Of course if you won't find the words 'torture' in the Administration's press guides. But it does not follow from that that they did not torture. As a matter of fact, something that upset John Ashcroft enough for him to ask 'Why are we talking about this in the White House?" was no doubt tantamount to torture, and of a kind that was licensed on far more than three occasions. There is major legal trouble ahead for the Administration.
Another good little nazi heard from. You make sick pal. Amazing that someone can be shown the truth and still refuse to see. Waterboarding is torture. That Bush say it isn't torture, doens't make it so. Also Abu Ghraib was just humilating not torture? Have someone shove a light stick up your ass against your will and tell us if you think that's torture or not. That what went down in Abu Ghraib. Also waterboarding was only done 3 times, why do you believe that? OH because Bush says it right. The guy who said we get warrants everytime we want to eavesdrop on people's phone calls. The guy who said Saddam had WMD's and was a threat to us. The guy who said we don't torture. A man who has been shown to be the biggest serial liar in American history, yet you believe everything he says. You must be the most guillible person on the face of the planet. I got bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you, give me a call. I'm sure you'll buy it too.
There is no justification for torture. Those who pose issues in a religious perspective will have to ask themselves what they will tell God on Judgment Day about why they did not challenge torture and torturers.
George Washington expressly forbade torture when you guys were just becoming a country
General Washington didn't have to deal with the possibility of a nuclear device destroying Los Angeles and killing millions..
As an aside, I loved David Morse as General Washington in the JOHN ADAMS mini-serie
Michale...
I suggest you turn off your TV and go to the library.
Los Angeles was Spanish and wasn't Washington's problem.
That whole 24 Hour ticking red clock time bomb came from a story written during the Algerian War as a justification for the French Army's use of torture. Against Muslim "terrorists". (Or was that Freedom Fighters. I forget.)
In other words: IT WAS PROPAGANDA!
I agree Torture is not the way to go!
Just CUT THEIR HEADS OFF like our enemy does. Perfect!
Your sarcasm is appalling. Just because the "enemy" condones torture, the US has to stoop to that level too? Perfect!!!
And you feel comfortable identifying with them?
They are the bad guys, we are supposed to be the good guys. Good guys don't torture. Ever. You may want the USA to be the USSR. I don't.
We make the terrorist think he is drowning when he is not. This is torture? Some say not giving a prisoner a prayer rug is torture as well. Maybe being in prison is torture. Maybe we shouldn't fight them at all. Maybe we should allow them to over run things like Europe did with Hitler. After all, they may consider it to be torture if they are not allowed to kill innocents.
Those boots should have tipped us off:
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Actually, it's been documented that Condi is a G'aould...
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:D
Michale...
If you are the same Michale as from a while back, welcome back.
Ah well, the rest of the Repukes are Borg.
The simple fact is this.
The United States doesn't torture people...
The United States tortures terrorists
Period.
Can we drop this silly issue and move on to something that is REALLY important rather than discuss the "rights" of animals like terrorists??
Michale...
HuffPost's Pick
You got your facts wrong (as usual).
WHO says all these people are terrorists? You consider yourself informed, so you must know that soldiers often round up any and all males in houses they raid without ANY proof of "terrorism". Also, just because a Sunni turns in his Shia neighbor for a $1000.00 US reward claiming that he's a "terrorist" doesn't necessarily make it true. How do we KNOW for SURE that ALL these people in custody are "terrorists"? We don't know. YOU don't know. The "simple fact" is that we HAVE tortured innocent people - just as we've put innocent people to death in this country by mistake. Oh, and getting them to "confess" to being "terrorists" through "torture" does NOT really make them terrorists either.
"You got your facts wrong (as usual)."
Nice personal attack. Do you want to debate this like adults?? Or simply wallow in the mud with childish personal attacks?? If the former, let's have at it. If the latter, you'll be playing with yourself..
"WHO says all these people are terrorists? "
WHO says they are not??
"know that soldiers often round up any and all males in houses they raid without ANY proof of "terrorism". "
Document this, please...
Have mistakes been made?? Of course there has.. No one is perfect. No one is claiming perfection
But there have been MANY successes.
The simple fact is, torture is only reserved for KNOWN terrorists and only to learn important intel. It's not used as a "fishing" expedition. It is not used to determine guilt. It's only used once guilt is establishe
Has established guilt been wrong? On occasion and that is a shame..
But you don't get rid of a valuable tool, just because mistakes have been made.
So, let me ask you this...
Do you have a problem with torture when it's a terrorist beyond ANY shadow of doubt and torture is done to save innocent lives??
Michale...
Michale, how can you be so clueless? Who's a terrorist and who's not is totally in the eyes of the beholder. For many in the Middle East it is the US that is the terrorist, and they have strong arguments to support that. And, like it or not, terrorists are humans too.
For many suicide bombing is the utmost horror, yet I am sure citizens from any country that is with its back against the wall would do the same. In fact, US pilots in the battle of Midway, eagerly (and bravely) went on to suicide missions that bought the US victory in that key battle.
The thing with human rights -- let alone US and international law that explicitly forbids torture -- is that they apply to everyone, or they apply to no one.
"Michale, how can you be so clueless? "
And what education and experience do you have that allows you to make the claim that I am "clueless"
What are your bona fides??
"Who's a terrorist and who's not is totally in the eyes of the beholder. "
That is the BIGGEST pile of BULL CRAP of ALL the piles of bull crap that ever EVER existed...
A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.
A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.
"and they have strong arguments to support that"
They have strong arguments in their own heads.. But the reality is far different.
"yet I am sure citizens from any country that is with its back against the wall would do the same."
Again with this sort of BULL CRAP.... So, are you telling me that if someone pissed you off and put your "back to the wall" that you would go on a rampage and murder innocent children?? I don't think you would. I know that *I* never could...
Human rights apply to humans..
Terrorists are not human... They have given up all rights to be considered human when they became terrorists.
It's THAT simple...
Michale...
To not acknowledge that these so-called terrorists are human beings is a grave mistake. It is mistake which has been repeated throughout history. It is not a silly issue, it is the only issue. The Nazis were accorded the right to habeus corpus, quality defense attorneys, and a public trial. The Nuremburg trials, and the international laws which derived from those days make no distinction about the qualities of the defendant, nor should they. Many of those Nazi defendants were acquitted, as would many of our detainees under the conditions of a civilized trial.
We are abandoning our most cherished principals because we fear a gang of medieval religious fanatics? The brave men and women who fought and died for those principals would be ashamed of all the cowards who would toss them on the trash heap of history.
"The Nazis were accorded the right to habeus corpus, quality defense attorneys, and a public trial"
You are comparing apples and Eskimos...
The Nazis were a uniformed military branch representing a country in a declared war covered under Geneva Convention accords..
Terrorism and terrorists are NOT covered under the Geneva Convention, ergo the "nice" rules of war do not apply..
That "gang of medieval religious fanatics" have killed MILLIONS of innocent men women and children.. Don't you care about THOSE people at all??
Don't you care about the millions that COULD die in a mushroom cloud over New York or Los Angeles if you people have your way??
I am CONSTANTLY amazed by the ignorant Left's capacity to empathize and sympathize with the animals that are terrorists and turn a completely blind eye to the suffering, death and destruction that your "poor, innocent, misunderstood" people cause..
So much for the vaunted "compassion" eh???
Michale...
Interesting parsing of words. Are the innocent people who got tortured "people?"
And tell me if you would. Why did torture only recently become necessary? Why was it not in common usage during the dark days of WW II? When the threat from the Wehmacht or the Japanese Navy was, oh say, about a million times greater than from any terrorists today.
Why wasn't it used in the Civil War? A time of invasion or rebellion, as defined in the Constitution. And the bloodiest war (by far) in the history of our Republic.
But suddenly it becomes necessary now?
Why are so many people willing to come to the defense of something, torture, which is clearly criminal. Under the Constitution, under International Treaty, which the Constitution declares the Law of the Land, or American laws.
And most importantly. Why do you despise our Constitution and Laws?
"Why was it not in common usage during the dark days of WW II?"
If you don't think it was, then you are incredibly naive.
"But suddenly it becomes necessary now?"
No, it's suddenly become public knowledge now.
"And most importantly. Why do you despise our Constitution and Laws?"
Nice tactic. The simple fact is, the US Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus for Americans & imprisoned those who spoke against him. Did Lincoln "despise" the US Constitution?
FDR incarcerated thousands of American citizens without a trial whose "crime" was their ancestry. Did FDR "despise" the US Constitution?
Your argument is infantile in the extreme. I have worked security and law enforcement for a quarter of a century. I have been in two different branches of the US Armed Forces and have liased with MANY countries' military & intelligence services from Israel, Britian and many other places. I can tell you unequivocally & without reservation that not only is torture prevalent in the day to day activities of CT ops, it is a VITAL tool that helps save lives.
What experience do you bring to the table that would allow me to judge your opinion on torture as relevant & informed?
The world is not a pretty place. Assigning American rights (even HUMAN rights) to the animals that are terrorists is the biggest mistakes anyone can make.
I am sure Nicholas Berg and Daniel Pearl choose to think as you do. They choose poorly.
Michale
I cant believe the likes of you exist. We're ALL animals biologically speaking. Some are monsters, some are not. Which side are you on?
I am on the side that doesn't kill innocent men women and children indiscrimi
YOU appear to be on the side that DOES....
You have chosen sides very poorly...
Michale...
Condi, is not going anywhere. If you get up to make a speech and say to the crowd "My Husband, I Mean My President" "Houston We Got a Problem"! She's a stand in for Laura and that will come out in the history accounts..
would someone please explain to me, why, when this report appears to be true, and bush has acknowledged his agreement with it's conclusions ("yeah, go ahead, torture people") and we have heard repeatedly from all these people "the u.s. does NOT torture people," and yet we know for a FACT they HAVE - at gitmo, and in black sites abroad in our name - why exactly isn't the congress having hearings exploring whether or not they broke the law, and if so, whether or not they should all be in prison?
yes, adams created the alien and sedition acts, and yes, lincoln suspended habeus corpus, but torture?
obviously, they are walking a fine line - in their minds "the u.s. does NOT torture," meaning "we have legal clearance to do this, this, and that, and NOT call it torture, because of executive power during wartime" (their interpretation of the law, but, nontheless, ILLEGAL) or "these people are NOT being tortured by US. they are (unsaid) however, being tortured in black sites in OTHER countries, by OTHER foreign nationals, IN OUR NAME.
would somebody please explain to me why these people aren't in jail, are still in power, and are still doing whatever they damn well please? WHERE IS THE CONGRESS?
Don't forget FDR incarcerated thousands of American citizens without trial or rights and hundreds died...
Let me ask you something.
How would you feel about the headline, "US FEDERAL AGENTS TORTURE ADOLF HITLER TO SAVE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT LIVES.... Or "US OFFICIALS TORTURE JOSEPH STALIN TO PREVENT A NUCLEAR BOMB GOING OFF IN LOS ANGELES"
Now, tell me.. Honestly..
Assuming this is true, why do you have a problem using torture on some scumbag terrorist if it will save innocent lives???
Michale...
"Don't forget FDR incarcerated thousands of American citizens without trial or rights and hundreds died..." & this supports your point how?
When, exactly, did we arrest Stalin & Hitler? Bloody good job I say! I also wouldn't mind if we tortured Darth Vader.
That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing is sure inconvenient, ain't it?
We didn't torture Goering, Speer, Frank or Strasser. We gave them a fair trial. Well, actually Roosevelt did. And ask yourself why we did that?
The crimes of the Nazi's were on a scale so large as to be unimaginable. Yet we allowed them due process. Why?
We did that precisely because of the enormity of their crimes. Nuremburg set a precedent that when faced with crimes against humanity and war crimes on any scale, the way to deal with them is in fairness and humanity.
I understand why Bush/Cheney, Rumsfeld did what they did. They are fools. Who don't believe in the law. In fairness. Or in America.
What's your excuse?
How would torturing Adolf Hitler have saved innocent lives? When did Joe Stalin place a bomb in LA? Only 1 country ever used a nuclear weapon (2 times actually). I wonder how many inncont lives we took when we dropped those 2 devices? Oh yeah, we had our reasons. I wonder how many innocent lives we took when we bombed Iraq at the start of the war. I wonder how many during operation Rolling Thunder in Vietnam? It seems we will compromise any pricipal to save these cherished innocent lives, as long as they are Americans.
It seems we used to be America, but some of us aspire to be Rome.
"Don't forget FDR incarcerated thousands of American citizens without trial or rights and hundreds died"
As I recall, Saint Reagan later apologized for the unjust detainment of Japanese Americans and even paid reparations.
"Don't forget FDR incarcerated thousands of American citizens without trial or rights and hundreds died..."
"Hundreds died"??? of what? Torture? Starvation? Denial of medical care?
"...Let me ask you something.
How would you feel about the headline, "US FEDERAL AGENTS TORTURE ADOLF HITLER TO SAVE THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT LIVES.... Or "US OFFICIALS TORTURE JOSEPH STALIN TO PREVENT A NUCLEAR BOMB GOING OFF IN LOS ANGELES"..
Now I see the problem, you don't understand the difference between "think" and "feel".
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