In Defense of Being Educated
Much attention was made of Hillary Clinton's interview last week with USA Today, when she noted that support for Barack Obama "among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."
Many found her comments about race divisive and problematic. Overlooked was what she said at the end -- that voters "who had not completed college were supporting me."
Let's look at this a moment.
It's fair to say that people who haven't completed college have less education than those who have completed college. And saying that that someone has less education is the same as saying they're less smart. And calling someone less smart is saying that they're -- well, dumber.
And Hillary Clinton thinks this is a badge of honor?? It's one thing, after all, to call your supporters dumber than your opponent's. It's another to proudly trumpet the fact.
Most politicians tend to present why they are the best, what they can offer to the public to make their constituency a better place. Even Ronald Reagan, who didn't set very high standards of excellence, wanted Americans to seek a "shining city upon a hill." Barack Obama's hope is "Yes, we can," to inspire Americans to reach for their best. Hillary Clinton is proudly saluting that her appeal is to the dumber voters.
Way to pander.
To be very clear, before people leap (which they will) -- calling someone "dumber" is not the same as calling them "dumb." Put two Nobel Prize-winning physicists in a room, and one will be dumber than the other. But they're both really smart people.
And also to be clear, there are college-educated people who snake through four years and leave the ivy-covered walls dumb as a rock. And people who never went past high school who you'd be happy to have them lead you anywhere.
But while we're being clear, let's also be honest.
When picking a surgeon to operate on you -- would you prefer one with a college education, or one of those unlicensed doctors? Why? If you need someone to defend you in court, are you more likely going to want to have an attorney who went to law school, and actually graduated? Yes? Why?
We tend to require college education for the most valued aspects of life. Teachers, for instance. Air traffic controllers. Registered nurses. FBI agents. Nuclear physicists. CPAs. Commercial airline pilot. Veterinarians. On and on...
George Bush says he listens to the generals on the ground. Do you? Good. But you do understand that all those generals went to college. West Point tends to make that a requirement.
By the way, though we disparage them, it's a safe bet (since we elect them) that we want our politicians to have gone to college.
Right now, there are those ready to boil up a faux-cry of "Elitist!" And a faux-cry it is, particularly because it tends to come from the party of actual elitism. But mainly, education has nothing to do with elitism. It has everything to do with human beings wanting the best. Wanting the best for themselves when needing medical care, legal defense, flying on an airplane, safe bridges, military leadership, on and on. Wanting the best, period.
People have different goals, temperaments, life situations, needs. So, some go to college, and others don't. But most people in life want more for their children than themselves, to reach loftier heights. Isn't having a good education generally the goal? Honestly? Don't we all wish for the best for our children? For us?
Honestly?
When denigrating education, understand that it has an effect. Dismissing science, math, history does not exist in a vacuum. Medical research will grow overseas. Other countries will invent computer technology once invented in America. Electronics development will take place internationally, as will the jobs. Creative automobile leadership will occur elsewhere.
Education matters. It has nothing to do with elitism. Being elitist doesn't mean striving for the best, trying to be as talented, smart and accomplished, as qualified as you can be and want others to be. That's the point of life.
Being elitist is dismissing other people's worth as people because they haven't reached your self-imposed standards. That's completely different from wanting everyone to reach that same high standard, and striving to bring that about.
Striving to reach a high standard. Hoping to become the best we can be. Working for our children to do even better than us. It's what we want.
Unless, apparently, you're Hillary Clinton. Then you proclaim that you should be president of the United States specifically because voters who support you are not as educated as your opponent's.
Senator Clinton's claim reminded me of an email I received a few days before. One of her supporters was furious at a prayer I'd written for Ms. Clinton, and said it was the last straw, that he wasn't going to vote for Barack Obama should he become the Democratic nominee. I thanked the fellow for writing, and mentioned that I said Hillary Clinton had much good in her, and might one day be president, suggesting he seemed to have missed that part.
What I didn't write was that anyone who wouldn't vote for a candidate because of what someone other than the candidate believed -- well, that person probably shouldn't vote. But then, I guess when you're going for the "My voters are dumber than yours" base, it's not surprising when occasionally that's what you get.
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Mr. Elisberg:
Dumbness will prevail and the politicians in Washington have ensured that it will do so, at a minimum for the next two generations, by the manner in which our educational system has been eviscerated.
It is regrettable that folks will be convinced to vote based upon racial prejudice rather than what is best for our nation. Oh, but when they vote based upon race they are convincing their selves that they are voting in the best interest of the country.
If Obama where smart he would allow Clinton to have the nomination so that America can realize the profundity of their ignorance. Why Obama wants the presidency at a time when he will have one of the worst administrations to clean up after is puzzling. If elected Obama will find that the expectations will be higher for him and he will receive little support from the legislative branch. If elected, no matter what Obama sets out to do the odds are stacked against him, it will appear as though Obama is not qualified and he will be considered as a failure as a president.
I graduated from a university with a B.A., although I have not achieved economic success. There are many people that I know in trades that do not have a four year degree, yet they are "better off" economically. However, the time I spent in college was invaluable. I was exposed to so many different ways of seeing the world. I read books that I would not have otherwise read. I did not appreciate it then, of course, but I do now. People who have not received post secondary education are capable and intelligent, but their outlook may be limited. When you begin a career right out of high school, your life becomes a bi-weekly cycle of paycheck and bills. I am sure there are some who are able to expand their horizons through books,lectures, etc., but the reality of life often gets in the way. It is hard to find the time to read and learn on your own when you are working 40, 50 + hours a week.
I am a strong supporter of Obama. Once June arrives, I hope he will begin his courtship in earnest of Hillary's base. He may win some over by convincing them that he wants to restore the middle class for all. He values work, not wealth.
"It's fair to say that people who haven't completed college have less education than those who have completed college. And saying that that someone has less education is the same as saying they're less smart. And calling someone less smart is saying that they're -- well, dumber."
No-it's just dumb to draw this conclusion. Bill Gates didn't graduate from college --I guess he is dumb by your standards. My mother had to drop out of college when she got pregnant with my brother-she must be dumb too. Same with my dyslexic brother who couldn't work and complete college at the same time because he is a slow reader. Yes , we need a smart president--but GWB's Yale degree didn't guanantee much in the way of smarts.
So the one sentence you're actually disputing is the second one of the three. I'd point out that there is no need to do so since the author has done it for you:
"And also to be clear, there are college-educated people who snake through four years and leave the ivy-covered walls dumb as a rock. And people who never went past high school who you'd be happy to have them lead you anywhere."
Did you really read this piece?
Why all the qualifiers?
And I beg to differ regarding 2 Nobel Scientists in the same room. One may be better in his field than the other...bu
"Tortured, ever tortured"
PLEASE go back and READ the post!
"To be very clear, before people leap (which they will) -- calling someone "dumber" is not the same as calling them "dumb." Put two Nobel Prize-winning physicists in a room, and one will be dumber than the other. But they're both really smart people. "
That's why I love this article. The author set a trap in which dumb people would immediately reveal themselves by failing to either read or comprehend the piece. And his thesis is proven.
I think everyone is missing the actual point: Hillary wasn't claiming the white, working-class voter as her "message" until Obama's bitter remarks. She changed her message every other day until then when she latched on and hasn't let go.
The point is she doesn't care about these "hard working white people" more than anyone else. It's just that right now that's the message that she thinks is working for her. And the fact that uneducated (and I consider this anyone who doesn't use their own reasoning skills with or without a diploma) people are falling for her new messaging is the problem. She is taking advantage of a group of people who don't bother to learn anything and would rather regurgitate what they hear in soundbytes. So she condones the dumb racist mentality and perpetuates a sense of righteousness amongst idiots who don't feel the need to actually think for themselves. Why should they bother to really pay attention to anyone else's campaign if Hillary will say what they want to hear and coddle them into further oblivion.
College degree or not, anyone who still thinks Obama is a Muslim (or who think it would matter anyway) or who think that a black man can't or shouldn't be President is not putting real thought into this country's needs or potential. So if Obama would lose these particular votes in the fall says a lot to me. It says this country needs him more than I thought.
We also have to remember that this primary contest is not between Hillary and Obama, it's between Bill Clinton and Obama. Hillary is a puppet, and Bill is running for his third term. West VA has the 2nd oldest electorate in the country. Older Democratic voters hunger for the Clinton years and want Bill back.
While there can be no question that a certain percentage of the loss, perhaps ten or twenty points, was attributable to Obama's race, the fact is that no Democrat (not Biden, not Dodd, no one) would have beaten Bill Clinton in the WestVA democratic primary today. This was more a win for Bill Clinton than a loss for Obama.
It is sad that Hillary is targeting the less educated, poorer, more racist voters. Not that I feel bad for them for tending to be racist, but these people keep getting tricked over and over again by politicians. The government cares nothing for them except when it's time for votes. Instead of anger at the voters who think the gas tax is a 'good idea', I actually feel bad for them. They ARE poorer and do need help and latch on to that false hope that Hillary is feeding them. That makes me despise her all the more. Thank goodness this woman has no chances for the GE because I could not with a good conscience vote for her. I've said it before-I wouldn't want to even KNOW someone like her and would do all I could to make sure people like her were never in my life. Just because she's a politician doesn't mean she gets a pass on being a decent human being.
I agree with you, it is sad. Especially since these are the people who would have voted for her even if she hadn't made the remarks. The polls are indicating there is no to very little change in the outcome -- regardless of her remarks. What hurt Obama, was Obama (and Wright, of course). Hillary didn't even need to go there.
However, she's aiming to prove Obama's inability to be elected. She's working harder to thwart Obama's run than to win it herself. If you haven't noticed, she's lost more support since she's begun these rants. She's forever lost mine. IMO, she's just wasting money.
I must disagree that the Wright nonsense hurt Obama in West VA. This margin would have been the same irrespective of the Wright non-troversy. Remember, these votes were for Bill Clinton, not Hillary. It wouldn't have mattered who the opponent was, Bill was a guaranteed winner in WV.
I dont feel one bit sorry for them they deserve what they get.If they voted for bush and were tricked shame on them.
This sounds as though it was written to explain why Bush got elected. It's interesting that now we have Bush being hailed as the dumbest president ever.
Hillary on the other hand is definitely pandering. I don't think anyone categorizes her (with dumb) in this way. She is effectively lying to these people, who being less educated or smart, are an easy target.
College Educated Voters:
Have been educated in a wide variety of topics- Geography, History, Economics, Diversity, Psychology, Sociology, Speech Communications, Mathematics, Philosophy.
College educated voters can see the big picture:
-What will Barack Obama do for this world, the western hemisphere, this country, my region, my state, -my city, my neighborhood vs. Clinton?
-Ok, I see all the negative information coming out about Barack Obama. Is the source creditable? What is Barack Obama's response to this information? Does this information really matter in the grand scheme of things?
What will the next president do for EVERYBODY'S wallet?
When will then next president bring home EVERYBODY'S children from Iraq?
Non-College Educated voters:
-Schooled in the hard knocks of life. Know how to make it pay check to pay check.
-Don't trust politicians to begin with.
-Hurting so bad, that they have no time or patience to take a risk on someone with little washington experience, a bunch of chicago politics experience and having a single mother experience
They don't see the big picture...
Bill Clinton was a good president. Hillary Clinton automatically will too.
I got an e-mail saying Obama is a muslim, so he must be a muslim. I don't care to prove it.
Do I really believe that Obama thinks like Rev. Wright? I don't care to prove it.
Will the next president bring my children home from Iraq?
What will the next president do for my wallet?
How obtuse and narcissistic. Pidgeon holes all non-college educated people as unable to think for themselves. I would guess that this non-college degreed person has a more extensive library and is more well read than you. College teaches you to think in certain ways too, just as many nons are. Curiosity and the desire to learn new things trump college anytime. My wife and I pop about 200K a year and work part time and neither of us spent much time in college. We also donate lots of time and money to various charities. You went to college but you still can't think...
Not so fast, Hero. Your use of narcissistic here is incorrect. More importantly, as it damages your argument, is your stumble into the trap of automatically selecting that the author meant "all" when he or she may have meant "most", "many", or "majority". You follow this mistake by citing yourself as a counterexample in order to prove your point. Had jkpcguru meant other than "all", then yourself as a counterexample does nothing to prove you're correct. The result is that your post is also "obtuse".
I didn't feel the insult from Jkpcguru, and though his post is raw, I can find no fault in what he says, only that it leaves out quite a few college educated people who suffer from the same deficits and non-college people who are very intelligent big picture minded.
His thesis as to how the ignorance occurs however is probably accurate and according to the voting patterns so far, the numbers would support percentages that make his statements if not valid, at least not worth the anger.
I agree that it's perilous to pigeon-hole people. I acknowledge that there are millions of intelligent, successful people in the US who do not have college degrees. There are innumerable ways for people to become educated, it is true, and everyone should be judged by their actions or their opinions but not their c.v.
Conversely, it is ridiculous to dismiss someone because they ARE college educated, and there has been a lot of ridiculous conclusions drawn about this segment of voters.
While you take personal umbrage at Guru's comments (and I find that much of what is said is - like it or not - true, regarding cosmopolitan versus provincial outlook) I'll only say that I find it equally distressing that so many consider college graduates 'elitist' snobs.
Where's the part where he said ALL non-college educated people are unable to think for themselves? I missed that. However I haven't missed that you have INTERPRETED and MISSTATED Mr. Elisberg's words in a way to mislead others as to his point. Too bad many of us ARE able to think for ourselves and figure out what you are about.
Not much they can do for your pocket book the republicans have bankrupted the country.Th
hillary clinton panders to whomever happens to be expedient to her at the moment. then, if they do not hand her victory she declares they don't count. she is digraceful.
relieved to see karma is kicking her ass.
but it's not over yet and i do not trust her a bit. a power-mad, lieberman-esque neo-con mole far too cozy with the "family," karl rove, hawkish warmongers and middle eastern dictators.
This whole topic is not being handled well. People want respect regardless of the educational credentials they have. Clinton is giving them that. The fact that many of the well educated can't see that is the secret to GOP successes lo these past 30 years. Wake up and notice that, will you please? Their only advantage is that they pretend to respect the not-credentialed. That's what they mean when they say the Democrats don't get it. And they are right.
Outstanding post!
You're right. And being credentialed does not equal being intelligent, motivated, or successful, and it does not mean that one has integrity or a code of personal ethics. This particular category of division has been woefully acontextual and ahistorical. Thank you for mentioning, though, the most important issue: respect.
Clinton is giving them respect? CLINTON is giving them respect! No, I think respect would be showing that she gave more than a damn about them apart from their votes. Pandering mimics respect , but the former reveals itself after all is said and done. But, perhaps she really does care about these people in a way that she didn't care about the voters in the states that didn't count because she lost in them. Or more than she cares about all the small business people she utilized and then stiffed on the campaign trail. Yeah, it would be nice if she respected these poor, ignorant people. Actually, if she managed to get elected POTUS, she probably would try to do something to benefit them, if what I hear about her rewarding loyalty is correct. Still, that wouldn't require respect, just prudence on her part.
It appears you failed to grasp what joebaggadonuts was trying to convey when he wrote that those who are doing the respecting are pretending.
You are right on with that!Just imagine how carl rove was pissing his pant when he made sure the gay issue was put on the ballot in so many states in the last election! they didnt give a hoot about gays.Carl rove stepdad is gay and he plays cards with the guy,from all acounts they have a great relation ship.Oh and did I mention chenys daughter or the gay wedding condi went to.Yeah they play on peoples prejudices and fears.And the suckers fall for it.Im sorry but its hard to feel sorry for the fools who fall for these tactics.
It never ceaces to amaze me how the srongest supporters of Sen. Clinton keep taking this. She has been belittleling these women since the early times of Paula Jones yet they come back to her and even show some loyalty so unusual among women.
Yep. What better political contest could there have been to demonstrate the raw power of stupidity, sexism, racism, and voting for your own self-interest?
It never ceaces to amaze you, huh ullabella?
Oh, really.
Thank you for defending me. I have a good education, and I'm tired of being maligned by this country.
I've lived in seven countries, and this is the only country I've lived in where being well educated is considered a deficit. What a backward notion! Even Henry VIII knew how important education is.
My own experiences as a teacher and citizen have lead me to believe that it's not the number of years of education, but rather the quality of the education that makes the difference. The quality of public education in this country sucks the big one. It sucks so profoundly that it's shocking that it's called education. Private education is great, but public education is in a major crisis in this country.
And only a quality primary and secondary education will minimize the debilitating disease that is racism.
Yep My voters are dumber than yours and therefore they are more important. Although I suspect its not the fact that these voters are dumb why they are important its because they support her so if Hlary voters came from another planet they would be more important for that reason. What I find interesting is that they are saying Obama cant get the bubba voters because he is an elitist but no one is saying why Hilary can't get the college educated voters. Whats interesting is that in the other polls most voters say that Hilary is untrustworthy but in WV its the opposite she is trustworthy and Obama is not proving that WV voters are much more insulated that I thought. They really dont get much exposure do they.
Carol
"And saying that that someone has less education is the same as saying they're less smart." This is horsecrap. Less educated me less educated. It does not mean dumber. So back in the day when women were not allowed to go to school they were dumber than men. Same for minorities. Let me give another example, the SAT is a tutorable test. This means that if you have the money to train in the SAT technique you do better. I know this because as a kid I had a massive swing between SAT scores, hundreds of points. Later after my Masters I tutored the SAT and the GRE. A large part is practice but a significant part is about training and techniques. That is a matter of economics.
J
really, this is the worst reasoned chain of argument i've read in a long time.
"And saying that that someone has less education is the same as saying they're less smart. And calling someone less smart is saying that they're -- well, dumber."
Nossuh, saying someone has less education tens to mean they were and remain poorer, with less access to education. It says nothing about dumbness, ie stupidity. This post is so poorly reasoned it reads like a parody of misunderstanding. Nothing about it, in short, follows from Hilllary's unwise demographic remarks--which remain true nonetheless, and are NOT to be construed as dissing her voters.
I agree with jcwtts1.
PS GEORGE W BUSH IS A YALE GRADUATE. so @##$%what!!!!
Yes but george bush recieved affemative action to get into yale not just blacks get affermative action rich kids with crappy grades do but nobody ever complains about that.
This post is somewhat off the mark.
While it is true that college graduates as a rule probably are more intelligent than those who did not attend college, it is not true that the latter as a group suffers from a lack of intelligence. It also does not necessarily follow that all college grads (e.g. Junior) are smarter than those without degrees. It also does not necessarily mean that those without degrees are less well educated than those with; it just means they have less formal education.
The problem voters I think we are talking about here are those who routinely vote against their economic self interest out of fear. These are the voters who rely on the gut and not the head. These voters can be stupid but not necessarily so. These are the same insecure voters the Republicans have deployed so successfully since the '50s, with the boogy men being in turn Commies, black Americans, antiwar activists, hippies, liberals, Mexicans, gay Americans, terrorists, the French, education, intelligence and black Americans again.
Sadly they are still with us (see the 2000 and 2004 elections, West Virginia today and Kentucky next week) and they are a pox on the body politic. This is not a group whose support I personally would tout with pride, as Sen Clinton has done.
(Full disclosure: I am a native of southern Appalachia
PS Dumb voters are those who cannot speak, for the record.
This whole topic is not being handled well. People want respect regardless of the educational credentials they have. Clinton is giving them that. The fact that many of the well educated can't see that is the secret to GOP successes lo these past 30 years. Wake up and notice that, will you please? Their only advantage is that they pretend to respect the not-credentialed. That's what they mean when they say the Democrats don't get it. And they are right.
There is a lot more empirical evidence that Hillary lacks respect for "hard working people" than that Obama does. What Clinton is so expert at, we used to call "lip service."
These are the voters who rely on the gut and not the head.
What I keep hearing from Obama supporters is that he's "inspirational". That, my friend, is a gut feeling, because it's not something that half the party buys into.
No voter casts their ballot soley on "their head".
What you fail to understand is that those voters who vote against their own economic self interest may be doing it out of principle, rather than fear. "Man does not live by bread alone" is a quote that many of those voters hold dear.
And those voters, my Appalachian friend, elect Presidents.
The extent of Senator Clinton's ambition is damning. She wants the job far too much for it to safely be given her. This is just another example - She is in fact playing the race card - and the MSM seem to be going along by implying that these rural white state primaries are a test of Obama - In fact this is a test of the character of our people
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