Shaggy Fox Story

You do all kinds of dubious things when you're promoting a book. But when my publisher suggested that I accept an invitation to appear on Fox's "Hannity and Colmes," I was a bit skeptical. I've been on O'Reilly a few times over the years, and have stopped doing it, because these people play with such a stacked deck. They control the format, the timing, they flat-out lie, and they're rude as hell. Even if you win the debate, you're lending credibility to a propaganda act.

But I figured that it might be useful to hone my arguments against the nastiest possible audience, and might sell a book or two in the process.

Things started off well, when Alan Colmes, in his usual role of ineffectual and half-hearted liberal, played it fairly straight. Holmes asked if the election was turning into the Palin-McCain narrative-the soccer mom and war hero--versus the Democrats on the economic issues. I countered that the Democrats couldn't just talk issues; they had to have their own narrative:

If people vote on whether Sarah Palin is better at shooting a moose, the Democrats are toast. And if Obama and Biden can bring the election back to the fact that the Republicans have had their shot at experimenting with letting Wall Street go nuts and it's really harmed ordinary people, then the election turns on the economy and the Democrats win. So this is a fight about whether the election is about culture or about pocketbook issues...a narrative of the ordinary, hard-working family just getting the short end of the stick: everything from subprime to health insurance to your pension blowing up, of your job not being secure. That's a narrative that affects ordinary people. If that narrative is persuasive, the Democrats win.

I added that Obama might be in a little trouble because he was still trying to be high-minded and "post-partisan," at a time when the campaign was turning nasty. At that point, Hannity, sitting on my other side, came unglued.

"Oh, stop it, stop it, "he spat. "This is garbage you're spewing here."

I told him that he would get his turn in a minute, and that I hadn't come on his show to be insulted. "This is a pro-Obama book!" he hissed, as if his producers had tricked him.

Hannity then want on a rant about how wonderfully the economy was performing under the Republicans, and what lies I was telling by terming economic conditions dire.

I countered:

If you can persuade the American people that the average family is doing great, your guy deserves to win the election. But I don't think the American people are that stupid. People's health insurance is going up in smoke, people's pensions are going up in smoke, people's jobs are being exported to China, unemployment is 6.1% and rising, the administration is bailing out Wall Street because of Republican deregulation... If you think the economy is great, you campaign on that.

Hannity then accused Obama, and me, of wanting to increase public spending by over a trillion dollars. I replied that it probably would take more than that to get the economy out of the hole that conservative policies had dug-and that Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson seemed to have no trouble spending a trillion dollars of taxpayer money to rescue Wall Street, but not to help ordinary people.

At that point, Hannity looked into the camera and declared that it was time for the next guest, Jordin Sparks, the American Idol winner! Colmes limply shook my hand. Hannity didn't even give me a parting sneer. I sure hope they don't invite me back, and I think the risk is fairly small. Watch it for yourself.

Conclusion: I think the show was worth doing; it was fun telling Hannity what a fool he is. I'm reasonably articulate at talking about economic issues, and I don't like bullies. However, I'm no politician, and Barack Obama at his best is a terrific one. But if I can credibly push back against the Palin-McCain narrative, deep in hostile territory, by turning the subject back to people's pocketbooks, Obama should be able to eat the right's lunch.

Robert Kuttner, co-editor of The American Prospect and Distinguished Senior Fellow at Demos, has just published Obama's Challenge: America's Economic Crisis and the Power of a Transformative Presidency (Chelsea Green). He is blogging daily about the election and the economic crisis at www.obamaschallenge.com.

Comments

[Yermammy]

Thanks. I don't watch rethug propaganda, but I'll take your word for it.

[deeppeace]

Bravo! Wish I had the stomach to watch it. Sorry!

[MadOzbo]

Same here. I COULD NOT get my mouse to click on the play button...Way too early in the day, the week (it's Friday), my LIFE to watch another second more of Hysterical Hanity than I absolutely have to when accidentally landing on Faux News while channel surfing...

[MyAudacity]

Kudos to you! I don't watch Fox, but I certainly hope Newshounds has a tape of the show. Fox has gotten outrageous, and at some point I certainly hope they be made to pay for their negligence. I'm amazed that such a bigoted network is allowed to proceed, but I suppose no one as of yet have been able to challenge them as an incorporation abusing the right to Freeom of speech by inflaming racism, and hatred. They are primarily why people have been misinformed rather than informed about current events. Truly a propaganda machine. I feel sorry for the people who listen to them, and feed their minds, conscious, and spirits with round the clock negativity, lies, and general wrong conceptions. I can't call them misconceptions, because what they do is deliberate. Alan Colmes really surprise me, I'm not sure how he can stand it, but I suppose if he left, they would get someone who would bend to Hannity, and Colmes don't do that...it just seems like it's not his show.

[Chazzam]

Nice work Robert! Way to not back down. Hannity relies on people being intimidated by his manner and his being able to push HIS narrative.
I love how you maintaned the working families' "experience of the economy" frame even as he threw out his cherry-picked (and not politically salient) talking point statistics. As evidenced by Colmes' (Sean's default sparring partner) assumptive, "You think the Democrats need to campaign on issues.", Hannity is most used to such issue-framed approaches (from the left/center) that he can then evade with his right-wing, narrative-framed rhetoric. By establishing territorial advantage (by speaking first) on his narrative-based battlefield, you forced him into an attempt at an "objective" (citing economic #s) countermeasure, which he does not do skillfully (because he would need to calm down, to deliver numbers in a manner that 'felt' credible to an audience, and Hannity really doesn't DO 'calm').
Colmes looked impressed. Maybe he learned something (not likely).

[oncethere]

While I applaud your fire-back, Democrats need to find a way of best dealing with individuals who are bullies, incapable of dialogue or of tolerating different points of view. I have learned, over the years, there is not an experience in life that is less rewarding than having a conversation with the likes of a Hannity or O'Reilly. One is faced with these unpleasant alternatives---expend a great deal of painful energy setting limits on their controlling or manipulative behavior or give up and go away with a sense of hopelessness.

Bear in mind, they are masters at controlling and manipulating, better at it than you or I.

[tinalion]

mr kuttner i watched you last night and thought what yu said was interesting and that mr. hannity was out of line i believe he owe you an apology i emailed him and told him i also email fox news thank you