If Americans Knew What We Did to Iran, Would We Still Talk About Using Force?
Hands on buzzers, for 500 points: this democratic leader was overthrown in 1953 by a US-organized coup in retaliation for nationalizing oil resources previously controlled by the British.
Who is Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh?
If you're a little rusty on the history of U.S.-Iran relations, here's a 6-minute video review:
If more Americans knew about this history, could our leaders blather on about supporting freedom and democracy in the Middle East they way they do? Would news media take them seriously if they did so? Would American pundits be so cavalier about the idea of bombing Iran, in flagrant violation of international law? Could people make fun of Senator Barack Obama for supporting real diplomacy with Iran and get away with it?
I don't claim that it would be impossible for U.S. politicians to talk about bombing Iran if "every schoolboy knew" what the United States did in Iran in 1953. But surely it would be more difficult.
Ask Congress to support the Lee bill, which would appoint a high-level U.S. representative to Iran for the purpose of reducing tensions and establishing normal diplomatic relations.
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Great article...
I do not dislike america, but, I LOVE TRUTH.
You can't handle the truth.
WE....can'
No surprise here. If the USA citizens knew the history of the CIA, NSA, Mosad and other GROUPS, believe me, you would think that the USA is the savior of the world.
Nicaragua in 1933, I believe, as well and Chili and ?????
Ugh, don't get me started on Chile. Kissinger and Nixon believed that the Pinochet junta was still better (for US interests) than having a socialist in power! (Whom they tried to get rid of democratically, and when that failed, military coup is the answer! Not a full scale military invasion by the US, at least. Just people armed, trained, and supported by the CIA.)
You should study your material before speaking. Allende hid his Marxist intentions prior to the elections, though most of the people had an inkling what was happening. When he got into power, he began a power grab and genocide that would make Castro proud. He was eventually overthrown by Pinochet, who had supported the constitutional process, but who was quickly disenchanted by the abuses of power that Allende was developing. It was for these reasons that Allende was overthrown, and not by the CIA.
Semper fi
It's really very simple. The entire world is divided into good guys and bad guys. The "Decider" tells us which counties and persons are good and which are evil. There are no nuances or gray areas. That is what is so good about the post-9-11 world. You don't even have to think - that's all done for you. Like when Bush looked into Putin's soul. Clearly the Decider can detect goodness or evil. That's all a part of believing. "Living is easy with eyes closed."
War is a racket fought by the masses for the privileged elites, big corporations, and venal politicians. Bush's base - the nation's elite, his corporate sponsors, and the so-called defense industry have paid nothing and have risked nothing in these resource wars for oil.
The upper one-percent of the population has gotten several tax cuts, while big oil companies report record profits rising concurrently with prices at the pump.
The terrorist threat represents a political opportunity with big benefits for the security business, oil producers, defense contractors, and manufacturers of bullets, bombs and bullet-proof vests along with the reconstruction companies that rebuild after the bombing.
We see lower wages, trickle-down economics, trade deficits, while we are carving up the middle east oil reserves. U.S. corporate capitalism has global power, controls the world's resources and wealth. The Iranians have our oil and natural gas, just as the native Americans had our land.
Wealth in this country is being shifted upwards until there will just be two Americas - the very rich and then the rest of us. America is the next Banana Republic to be looted by the neoliberal
The war is about exterminating terrorists. The decider decides who they are. You can't have a WOT without a decider.
The more you exterminate, the more others rally to that cause, so the decider will be busy keeping decisions current with an ever expanding group. That is the thing about WOT, you never run out of people to kill.
Americans are so ignorant of world history, US history, and what happened 5 minutes ago that they must be considered children in a world of dangerous adults. Visitors from DeTocqueville to Albert Einstein have noted the "know-nothing" quality of Americans that allows them to believe anything but the truth and to ignore facts every time they contradict the "prevailing wisdom." George W. Bush is just the most toxic manifestation of the longstanding American tradition to be ignorant, belligerent and goddamn proud of it. If Americans knew what their ancestors did to Native Americans, how thay profited from the slave trade, and how they oppressed immigrants and women (and do so to this day), they would hang their heads in shame. But shame is an emotion totally foreign to Americans, who would rather bellow like ignorant yahoos about God, and Jesus Camp, and NASCAR, and American Idol. The day is coming when Americans will be described in history books as violent thugs with single-digit IQs... the modern equivalents of Vandals, Huns, and Visigoths.
Stop Smoking!
Americans are: English,Fr
The entire history of human kind is nasty, leave Americans alone and save the few brain cells you have left.
Most Americans who consider themselves Irish, Polish, Italian, etc, have never been to those countries and never met anyone from them, either. They are AMERICAN if they were born here, raised here, and have never left here. (Other countries don't do that crap, and, in fact, it pisses them off when we do it.)
In fact, one of the problems with Americans is that they are so isolated: they never freaking leave America, seek non-US sources of information, or care what non-Americans think.
It's just Tocqueville. Truth is not absolute. Soccer is bigger than NASCAR. And reality Television started in Europe. Although you may hide behind the scourge of your words, people are much more intelligent than you give them credit for; however, mankind is flawed. The native americans fought each other for land and supplies. women, immigrants, and other individuals have been killed or persecuted around the world since the beginning of mankind. Nothing can change that, that is why we are expected to try to learn from our mistakes. Going forward however, requires that it is done so without trying to slap everything and everyone around.
part of our great pursuit of happiness would have to include a shortcut like ignorance is bliss, ya think?
Iran is the tip of the iceberg. America has meddled endlessly for domination of resources and wealth since the Monroe Doctrine - particularly in our own hemisphere.
The U.S. was condemned by the World Court for international terrorism. As regards reparations ordered to be paid by the U.S. - the U.S. refused and ultimately supported stepped up attacks on "soft targets" after the World Court decision - in Nicaragua.
...but don't awaken anyone about any of this, they want Obama and his change machine of hope. Same 'ol same 'ol.
How many of you people would be able to speak out against the Iranian government if you lived there?
Women are treated differently in certain segments of their society and homosexuals are killed.
How many of you would want to live there?
Pretty much the same thing we have here now, isn't it?
Oh and I'm sure since you're so passionately anti-Iran, you'd go there and fight, right?
I didn't think so...
Can you name one place, one event, one victim of official policy here in the U.S.? Women and homosexuals are not treated even remotely similarly here, compared with Iran.
One does not have to be passionately anti-Iran to be willing to fight. One merely has to believe in his country! I served for 26 years. What would you serve with any real fervor, other than your ignorance.
Semper fi
Very funny, Jelly. You're point is awfully weak. Women are treated differently and gays are killed in the good old United States, too. Mostly by your religious fundamentalist friends.
Could you name the hundreds of women and homosexuals killed every year by religious fundamentalists? I rarely hear about them!
Semper fi
Jellybelly, People in the US are being arrested daily for speaking out and protesting against the Bush Regime, and the corrupt Congress/Senate.
Women ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY in all segments of US society and a homosexual is KILLED almost every day. From my point of view Iran & the US are pretty much the same. Personally I would not want to live in Iran. Although I did have an opportunity to go to the Middle East once. It was back in the good old day when Oil Companies were being forced to hire Women for a “Mans” job with equal pay for equal work. I turned it down because I would not live/work in a Country that is a desert where the women ware a Burka.
You guys are hilarious. I don't countenance a lot of what our country has done around the world, but to compare the U.S. domestically to Iran is ludicrous. Ask any gay person whether or not he/she is safer and has more rights than in Iran; ask any woman about her status in this country compared to Iran.
Its time to go out and buy another roll of Reynolds Wrap -- you need new hats.
Can you name six homosexuals who were killed because they are homosexual, this year? With the murder rate what it is, a homosexual will be killed every day, but you cannot lay that to hatred.
What nonsense!
Semper fi
Therefore, what? We should kill the fuck out of them? So America is better...? Let's just kill 'em like crazy for that. That's mean.
Well, I did live there and you want to know something interesting? Back in the sixties and seventies gay Americans and Europeans were flocking to Iran as it was (and may still be) common there for heterosexual men to hold hands strolling down the streets and through the parks. Kind of sweet, don't you think? Our boys had a good old time there ...being sort of "out" and about and blending in.
Don't get bent out of shape, that was just a little tidbit for you.
Don't forget the part where we helped Saddam Hussein kill close to 1 million Iranians in the 1980s.
We've got the victim wing of the Dem party.
And now welcome the We Suck wing of the Dem party.
i guess we can add those to the "separate but equal" wing of the GOP, as well as the "im already rich but ill take your money too" wing of the GOP. oh! don't forget the "unable to use logic reasoning and facts" wing of the GOP.
What's this "wing of the party" bullshit? Are the claims made in the film true or not?
Bush hugs the dictator Musharraf but wants to bomb democratic Iran.
The Iranian people joined us in 9/11 vigils. The Iranian people want democracy. Ahmadinejad was elected. and, while he's anti-semitic and a religious fanatic, he also is giving more to the poor then anyone before him. He is not the commander and chief of Iran. He is no threat to us.
Musharraf is a military dictator who came to power in a coup. Musharraf is harboring Bin Laden and the regrouping Al Quida, he IS a threat to us.
There is a subtlety you're missing. Just because a country is a "democracy" (which Iran isn't by the way), doesn't mean they automatically are immune from criticism or military action. If the alternative were true, any "democracy" that voted to bomb us would have to be allowed to.
Iran is a representation democracy. All position of power are either elected or chosen by representatives who are elected, technically no less democracy then the USA.
http://en.
YOU miss the point. Iran has not bombed the USA or even any country we have a treaty with.
By threatening Iran with war, the USA is committing a war crime and encouraging them to develop nuke bombs.
ahmadinejad was chosen my the iranian people to lead them. he may be a little deluded in his views, but he was democratically elected by the people of iran. no one is saying they are immune from criticism. there are many things wrong with the way the country is run, but who the fuck are we to tell them what to do when we can't even fix our own shit?? and what is that shit about choosing to bomb us?? we (supposedly) live in a democracy and bush the (supposed) elected leader CHOSE to bomb iraq and did... so our government gets to just bomb whoever they want whenever they want for any reason whatsoever, but anyone else needs permission from us first?? we can't expect people to cooperate with us and negotiate with us if our policy is "do as i say not as i do." the united states is in no way above the law, but our officials keep acting like it. since 2003 our government has been "allowed" to kill innocent iraqi civilians (in the military called collateral damage) when we drop our bombs. what makes us right and someone else wrong for bombing us?? iraq did nothing to us and in return we've destroyed their country, government, and livelihood and are occupying them (kinda like the germans occupied the countries they conquered) indefinitely. how is that right?
Robert, thanks for posting that piece. This is history that every Iranian knows like we know Pearl Harbor. We seem to be incapable of considering that our actions are the source of great injustice and evil. In fact, WE were the original "evildoers" in the Middle East and that event led to the chain of events that produced the rise of fundamentalist Islamacists.
Not only that, but the overthrow and killing of Dr. Mosaddeq by the CIA was the first such operation and the excitement at that "success" led to that model of intervention being used the following year in Guatemala. And after that, well, the sky was the limit. We had the birth of one of the uglier tools of American imperialism - the overthrow of governments that interferred with our political or economic interests.
"Evil is manifest by our inability to concieve of causing it" Hazrat Inayat Kahn
Great comment.
This sort of behavior has been going on for a lot longer than your comment implies. The United States repeatedly tried to invade and annex Canada during the period 1812-1814 for instance. Lots of damage and killing was done by the invaders and the ultimate failure of the enterprise was never a sure thing. I thank all my ancestors who mounted the resistance and did the shooting and stabbing and blowing up. After all, we would be in a sorry mess right now if the invasions had succeeded.
I have sympathy for people all over the world who have been subject to the tender mercies of the American military invading their countries. Which, when it comes right down to it, is a fair chunk of the world geography is it not?
Thanks for that insight. I wasn't aware of that history. It coincides with the battle against the British at that time and probably was part of that war.
I didn't mean to imply that the killing of Dr. Mosaddeq was the beginning of American imperialism - only the beginning of a new technique by the newly minted CIA. Yes, American imperialism has a long history (see Native Americans, subjugation of; Spanish American War, fabrications to support; The Phillipines; invasion and supression of, etc, etc).
I just read recently about a debate that took place on the floor of Congress before the Spanish American War. Some in Congress realized that we were at a turning point and that proceeding on the path that led eventually to the invasion and occupation of the Phillipines would set America on a course of becoming an imperial power (setting aside for the moment the imperialism in North America that had led to the conquest of the American West and the fight with Mexico over Texas and the Southwest). Needless to say, the war-mongers won.
And, interesting to note, much of the fervor for war was driven by a generation raised on stories of military heroism from the Civil War days. The fight against Spain was their attempt to have a shot at "glory" - kind of like Bush and his chickenhawk friends, and the neo-cons eager to play at war. War always looks better years after the memory of death and destruction have faded and looks most facinating to those who have never experienced it first hand.
kartoon; You are right. Ever since the English invaded North America the have Been on a course of empire building and they will not stop until they are all dead or they have the entire world under their thumbs. It is not the ordinary people who are doing this it is the so called elite, the "Aristocracy". 1776
Mosaddeq was not killed by the CIA. He was deposed and executed by the Shah. Mosaddeq was in the process of taking Persia into the Soviet Union's sphere of influence, being a devout Communist himself. The Persian people applauded his deposition, as the Chilean people did Allende's. You people need to learn your history, instead of drinking the kool-aid of liars.
Semper fi
In other words, you would then have sanctioned the Soviet Union to overthrow a democratically elected government in Central America because he would take that country into the American sphere of influence?
Travel writer Rick Steves is traveling to Iran this spring to film a documentary about the country and its people and their views toward American and Americans. He believes that if we could get to know people better we'd be less likely to drop bombs on them.
The program should appear on PBS later this year.
Good for him!! What a great idea!
I was involved in the "citizen diplomacy" movement during the '80's that saw that same technique employed in the attempt to build a bridge between Americans and Russians. I traveled a number of times to the old Soviet Union on those missions shooting footage that was shown on various U.S. TV outlets and that I made into a documentary. I think that movement was an important contribution to improving relationships between the two super powers and helped eventually lead to the end of the cold war. In fact, Gorbochev cited those efforts during a speech on the floor of the U.N. but the American press reported only his remarks about the arms race.
I had coffee just the other day with a friend that was active in that movement and he mentioned that he's working on a project to create a sister city relationship between Seattle and a city in Iran based on the same strategy that drove the citizen diplomacy movement during the '80's and is driving Rich Steves today.
I agree that you should well understand the implications military actions you take, but the security concerns of the U.S. supersede any warm and fuzzy feelings that individuals may have for each other.
iran is not a threat to our security. pakistan is. it seems to me that the REAL threats out there we leave alone. pakistan, saudi arabia.... but we attack and kill innocent civilians in countries that have in no way threatened us. wow, that sure sounds like democracy to me! not.
What's it called when everything that ever was, everything that is, and everything that ever will be is all reduced to one single dynamic: us vs. them? You got it: it's called the Right Wing Ideology. And Hank48188 nails it down solid. He doesn't "have a problem with what we did to Iran in 1953"; but he sure has a problem with Iran kicking sand in our faces in 1978. First, a little history please: President Carter attempted a military assault - which a sandstorm thwarted. Second, the taking of American hostages is peanuts compared to overthrowing an elected government: so in this installment of "us vs. them," it was "us" who were the bad guys. But I will say this for Hank48188: he's infinitely more representative of the average American's worldview than those who take a few minutes to actually think about things rationally.
"he's infinitely more representative of the average American's worldview than those who take a few minutes to actually think about things rationally
and that is a sad fact. americans are fucking stupid, and proud of it, too. facts? who needs those! logic and reasoning?? that's for sissies! all we need is a leader to point at someone and say "he's the bad guy" and we jump on board.
As a secondary social studies teacher I can tell you from personal experience how dangerous it is to try to teach the "truth." I have been soundly villified by fellow teachers( most teachers are very conservative and ignorant)for discussing American imperialism- the overthrow of Mossadegh in 1953 was sadly only one of many instances in the Middle East Latin America and Southeast Asia.
If you have facts on your side you cannot get in trouble for teaching kids about our past. Just keep your personal political beliefs out of it and you'll be fine. Worry more about the kids than your colleagues.
After the 2004 election my son's third grade teacher had all the kids write a complimentary letter of congratulations to Pres. Bush. I complained to the principal (anonymously) and she issued an apology to the class and didn't mail the letters. It was a great learning moment for my son (and I hope for that teacher too.)
As long as the rationale for the "imperialism" at the time is explained. I'm sure you explain to your students that stopping the expansion of Soviet control into the middle east trumped any other concerns at the time, and that they would have probably supported the actions at the time.
I'm interested in your views on teaching in America. I live in Utah and my sons are subject to outrageaus propaganda, but I thought that was somewhat unique to such a right wing state. Do you think that it is a nation wide phenomenom? I'd like to chat with you but have no idea how to connect.
If you look at who runs the mainstream media in the United States these days - all the pieces of the puzzle begin to fall neatly into place. From my perspective, right wing zionists are being used by the oil companies to keep America's thumb firmly esconced upon the tin pot dictator oil rich governments in the Middle East. Yes, there are diehard Israel supporters like Mort Zuckerman who continue to proclaim Israel as our best ally that "shares our values". There are plenty of extremist Jews in the US that consider any and all Arabs to be subhuman - the enemy of all Americans. But the fact is, it is the American oil companies and lately to some extent, the American mercenary companies that have used Israel, its extremist policies, and its extremist supporters as the front guy in this tug of war for oil and now billions of military based contract dollars. Israel is our cover in the grand grab for Arabian crude and American cash. We and the British have a long history of using terrorist tactics in the Middle East to help "serve our interests". But as long as zionists like Rupert Murdoch and Mort Zuckerman continue to influence what the American Sheeple see on their boob tubes - with the full backing of corporate America - nothing will change.
I would say the evidence tells the opposite, namely that it is Israel using the oil companies as a front for its power thirst, hate wars and nuclear hegemony.
Yayy! The antisemites are here, the antisemites are here!!
Agree with KNOWHELPNOW! Bin Laden, who died in 2001 on kidney failure is still on the books with this administration as the boogeyman the
average American needs to support this war on terror. Why would they, days before 9/11 install new cables in the WTCs? All that asbestos in those buildings and the owner got away with no lawsuits. And now 6 people will get the death penalty for supposedly doing this.
Yes, we are insane.
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