Hillary Clinton and the Veepstakes -- a Logical Move for Her
With the last chances of winning the Democratic nomination slipping away, the question increasingly arises whether Hillary Clinton should hope for the number two spot.
The answer is a clear yes.
I am a big fan of Josh Marshall and Talking Points Memo and often agree with him, but I disagree with his conclusion that there's nothing in the two spot for her. He makes good points about her stature, but getting the number two nod helps by denying a stature-boost to someone else.
Look at things from the Clinton point of view -- she presumably would like to run for president again, and wants to best position herself for a 2012 or 2016 run.
Say that Obama-Clinton wins, meaning her next opportunity comes in eight years. As vice president she is the near-certain heir apparent and front-runner for the Dem nod in eight years. See: Gore, Al; Bush, George H. W.; Mondale, Walter; Humphrey; Hubert; Nixon, Richard. Sen. Hillary Clinton or Gov. Hillary Clinton would likely still have the stature to challenge a sitting VP, but if she were the vice, the field of Dems on her par would be narrowed.
Say that Obama-Clinton loses, meaning she runs in 2012. She is the presumptive front-runner anyway ("I warned Democrats what would happen and did everything in my power in the primary and general elections to prevent it ..."), but again -- whoever does run with Obama gets a stature-boost. Better for her to be on the ticket and deny a possible rival the spotlight boost.
To be clear: I'm not saying that Obama should select her (I actually have my doubts on that) or that such crass political calculations should be the main basis upon which to seek or accept the VP slot (they shouldn't); or even that the VP slot is inherently worthwhile (in point of fact it should be abolished). But ... crass political considerations remain unavoidable, and there they are.
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2008 Vice Presidential Candidates' Debate. Question #1: "Mrs. Clinton, obviously as the VP candidate on Obama's ticket, you now believe he has passed the 'Commander in Chief threshold," so my question is, when did he pass that threshold, before or after you said he hadn't in March 2008?" Question #2: "Mrs. Clinton, do you believe that Obama has amassed a sufficient amount of life experience since March of 2008 so that he now offers America more than just a speech?"
Campaign commercial: various clips of Hillary Clinton in press conferences directly suggesting that McCain has passed the "Commander in Chief threshold" and that Obama hasn't, and that McCain can put forward a lifetime of experience and Obama can only put forward a speech from 2002. Still of Clinton's face with Obama's smaller image sliding into the bottom corner of the screen, narrator: "If his own choice for Vice President thinks this about him, what should we think?" Fade in, shot of McCain in Iraq, or in uniform, or with military commanders, "McCain for President."
It didn't have to be this way. This is the result of choices the Clinton campaign made, apparently after Wisconsin, about the style of campaign they were going to run.
Clearly she is better positioned to run as McCain's Vice Presidential hopeful.
Excellently stated.
Where do we send Biil. How is having her on the ticket turning the page. Will she be a good second or will she still try and be first. and finally can Obama trust her? I think not.
I highly doubt Obama is so naive as to trust Hillary as a running mate. He needs to be respectful and consiliatory but not take his eyes off her for a second. And don't believe it when her campaign says it will be over by early June; they're just trying to stall for time so that the superdelegates won't all rush to Obama right now. Never trust a snake.
QUESTION: How can Obama ever trust her...under conditions...!?!?
Obama needs to kneecap her and...move on...no debt forgiveness, no promises or deals of any kind.
A Hillary VP is not likely to be very helpful to a guy who destroyed her sense of entitlement. If successful as prez he could run and win a second term and keep her out of office for 8 more years. If that happened she would be nearly as old as McCain. Would she be a loyal VP or do her best to ruin him to become prez earlier? Based on past behaviour which seems more logical?
Then with Hillary you also get hubby Bill - who would love to throw you out of the white house so he can get back in. You don't even get any sympathy If either misbehave or say something inappropriate it now becomes your fault for associating with them. ( Remember the "Rev Wright syndrome")
In a country with 100 million citizens between 35 to 65 - there's got to be better choices.
As to paying off Hillarys loans - WHY? Would that any ordinary citizen faced an 11 million dollar debt and had $109 million available to cover it. What grassroots payer of $100 because they believed in Obama would want the money to go to an already rich corporatist that they opposed?
Gag, ugh, urffffll, hoooahhhh!!!! Excuse me as I clean up my dinner. Mrs. Clinton's negatives aren't going to help Barack Obama. He'll do fine picking a Clinton supporter -- like Gen. Clark, or Gov. Strickland of Ohio but after the last 2 months nooooooooo vp for HIll......
Although I strongly favor Richardson for aforementioned reasons, there is some historical precedence at play here.
1. 1960 Kennedy and LBJ went at it hammer and tongs but even though they couldn't stand each other, they teamed up as Kennedy needed the southern Democrat vote and diffuse the Catholic thing.
2. 1980 George H.W. Bush and Reagan went at it, but Reagan chose Bush even though Bush insulted Reagan's economic plan as "voo doo economics"
If JFK hadn't been killed, both tickets won two terms. (LBJ won in a landslide in 1964)(George H.W. Bush won in 1988). Just a thought IF Obama ends up choosing Clinton. IF that is his choice, it would have been carefully considered and I would embrace it.
All who have responded, no matter what side you are on, Grandpa and the Republican cretins MUST be defeated. They are the Dark Side and nothing would make my day than to see Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, Hannity and Kristol cry us a river.
Although you favor Richardson, just curious who your 2nd choice would be?
I think if Obama picks her for VP it would be a serious mistake, it makes it look like he NEEDS her to win the general, it undermines his message of change, and it makes him vulnerable after elected because she and Bill will stab him in the back every chance they get. I do not want someone for VP that I would not want for Pres.
Senator Obama is supposed to be as smart as JFK and got the nomination with the Kennedy Mantle bestowed on him by Ted Kennedy and Caroline. John and Robert Kennedy knew that they needed LBJ to get the same voters Hillary Clinton now has.
History could very well repeat if Obama will do what is best for the Party. There would be no way the Democratic Party could lose in spite of enormous screw-ups by the DNC.
Hopefully, an agreement can be reached on the Florida and Michigan delegates, the team of Obama/Clinton can come together, and our Party can sail to victory in November. Once the team is formed, I hope the Democratic Congress will finally decide to take on the Bush administration and start impeachment proceedings without the distraction of a Primary race. With the intimidation of such a strong team in the General election, the Republican crooke will be shaking in their boots.
I actually think it's the only possible way for the Democrats to win in November. Too many of Senator Clinton's supporters really _are_ going to sit it out, or vote for McCain.
The smartest move would be for Senator Obama to tap her for VP--and give her the health-care issue. That way, she has something vital to do--and something which, after difficult previous experience, she is uniquely qualified to do, and should help them create a better working relationship.
If he picks a male running mate--almost no matter who it is--it will be very off-putting to the millions of voters who have been repulsed by the rampant sexism coming from the MSM and the Obama campaign throughout the primary season.
The fact that you added the slam "If he picks a male running mate--almost no matter who it is--it will be very off-putting to the millions of voters who have been repulsed by the rampant sexism coming from the MSM and the Obama campaign throughout the primary season." says alot at least to me.
As a female I am here to tell you I do not want her as VP.....if he feels he has to pick a woman there are others just as "qualified " and without the baggage. She has exposed herself to the world in a less then favorable light.
This Dream Ticket scenario is the most ridiculous thing that keeps popping up.
Obama is where he is because he wants to turn the page on what the Clintons stand for.
If he chooses her as the VP, he will have lost my respect. Her voters six months from now will be on his side. Women particularly because two to three of the Supreme Court Justices will not be in the court within the next four to eight years, which means ROE V WADE could really be in danger this time.
Obama is winning 90% plus of African Americans and 40% of white votes right now. He will be our next President, as long as he does not pick Clinton as VP and by cause and effect energize the Republican base.
"Obama is winning 90% plus of African Americans and 40% of white votes right now. He will be our next President, as long as he does not pick Clinton as VP and by cause and effect energize the Republican base."
Sen. Obama is winning 90% black and 40% white DEMOCRACTS. That alone does not make him nor win him the election. Do keep that in mind.
That is funny tap her on health care like Bill Clinton did. Please!!! The Clintons will be an albatross if he puts her on the ticket.
We don't need a racist on the VP chair.
Nor do we need a sexist, or an ageist--but we're already _stuck_ with that.
Here's Senator Obama's charming comment about Senator McCain today:
"So for him to toss out comments like that I think is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this nomination..."
For those of you unable to recognize the obvious, that is an offensive ageist response by him.
Hell no, she screwed up healthcare so bad before that nobody would touch it for a decade.
Seems like not a great idea to me overall. I can see trying to heal the party, and the women's vote has been trending Democratic in the past several elections and you want to continue that. But Clinton is so divisive that even in the No. 2 slot, I'm afraid she'd be a tremendous shot in the arm to Reep fundraising and turnout. Plus, and I hate to say this, but Obama would have to really watch his back.
I'd suggest Gov. Richardson for the veep slot. He'd bring in the Hispanic vote, which some think McCain is positioned to grab because he is seen as reasonable on the immigration issue. Richardson also adds "gravitas," with a resume that helps nullify the (bogus, IMO) experience knock on Obama. Plus, and also I hate to say this, he makes Obama bullet-proof -- no racist gun-nut is going to take out the first black president just to create the first Hispanic one.
So here's a quick, rough calculation: blacks and Hispanics together are about 26% of the population. An Obama/Richardson tickets gets, say, 80% of that, for 21% of the vote. Women make up half the other 74%, or 37% and let's say Obama just gets half of them 'cause some are still sore about Clinton, for 19% of the vote. That totals 40%. So Obama would need just over one-quarter of the remaining 37% -- the non-black, non-Hispanic males -- to make 50%+1. Seems pretty doable.
God forbid there are any gun-nuts--but, can you think of a nut-job anywhere who would try to injure Senator Obama in order to create President Hillary Clinton?!
Ok, using your logic, why not Smokin' Joe Lieberman
or even Dennis Kucinich, for VP?
Rblom that ticket will be to ethnic for many Americans. Obama will need to pick someone like Jim Webb, Sam Nunn. A white male with foreign policy experience.
Maybe so. But I think Obama on top of the ticket pretty much nukes any bridges to the ethnically wary. I think putting a white male on the ticket to try to minimize damage in that demographic is probably futile. Better to pick someone who can boost you in another demographic -- Hispanics or women -- or in a swing state. Richardson does both, although granted NM isn't PA or OH when it comes to electoral votes.
Obama will not offer it. That would mean that he had to share the Washington spotlight with Bill Clinton for four years. No sane person would willingly do so. Hillary Clinton should be offered a cabinet post, but not the VP job. She will be fine at any job that lacks the glamor to attract Bill and his blathering distractions.
An Obama - Clinton makes a lot of sense. In order for Democrats to be in a position to guide the government, they first have to get elected. If these two can make up, shake hands, and decide to work for the good of the country, we all win.
Obama will not get elected with a racist woman on his side. That ship has sailed. Live with it.
Only if Obama can sleep with one eye openh.
Aside from the fact that we still need to count the votes of the voters of Michigan and Florida, Hillary Clinton is expected to achieve a landslide victory in BOTH West Virginia and Kentucky and Barack Obama knows this.
Hillary Clinton has already received MORE VOTES among all voters who have voted in this country than Barack Obama, to dateIf the numbers come out well enough for Hillary, she could go on to win the nomination.
With regard to delegates and Superdelegates, ANY and ALL of them can legally CHANGE THEIR THEIR VOTES on the Convention floor. They are not obligated to Barack Obama. They can stand up and vote for Hillary Clinton and I hope they do.
Superdelegates are expected to choose the candidate that can win the White House back for the party. The polls show that Hillary Clinton can more readily do this than Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton carried the entire Democratic base. RESPONSIBLE Superdelegates must take this into account.
HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTERS: Do Not Go Gentle... THIS RACE IS FAR FROM OVER even though Obama supporters would like us to believe it is over. It is not.
THE REASON THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN AND OBAMA SUPPORTERS WANT HILLARY CLINTON TO DROP OUT OF THE RACE IS BECAUSE SHE IS STILL A VERY VIABLE THREAT TO BARACK OBAMA IN THIS CAMPAIGN!
This message header should be entitled, "Cry Me A River" sniff, sniff......
need a Kleenex?
Yadayadayada...
Yeah, she's a threat alright. She is the one person who could put McCain in the White house and with a Republican majority in the Senate, just by not helping her supporters accept reality.
And if she somehow managed to get the nomination, she would shatter the Democratic party, she'd lose the General election.
Hillary Clinton as Obama's VP makes as much sense as the Obama campaign helping to pay her debt. NONE!
Amen!
It's been a long while since I read such crap analysis. We actually need people in leadership positions who can offer solutions to the vast number of problems that CheneyOilCo will dump on us when Obama wins the general election. The Clintons (can we say co-VP?) can not be part of any solution... simply because she is such a huge part of the problem. I know you are desperately trying to spin this trial balloon into the air for serious consideration... but almost all of us see it for what it is... a joke, and a bad one at that. The Clintons need to go home to their carpetbagging and influence peddling... and stay there.
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