Hillary Clinton and the Veepstakes -- a Logical Move for Her

With the last chances of winning the Democratic nomination slipping away, the question increasingly arises whether Hillary Clinton should hope for the number two spot.

The answer is a clear yes.

I am a big fan of Josh Marshall and Talking Points Memo and often agree with him, but I disagree with his conclusion that there's nothing in the two spot for her. He makes good points about her stature, but getting the number two nod helps by denying a stature-boost to someone else.

Look at things from the Clinton point of view -- she presumably would like to run for president again, and wants to best position herself for a 2012 or 2016 run.

Say that Obama-Clinton wins, meaning her next opportunity comes in eight years. As vice president she is the near-certain heir apparent and front-runner for the Dem nod in eight years. See: Gore, Al; Bush, George H. W.; Mondale, Walter; Humphrey; Hubert; Nixon, Richard. Sen. Hillary Clinton or Gov. Hillary Clinton would likely still have the stature to challenge a sitting VP, but if she were the vice, the field of Dems on her par would be narrowed.

Say that Obama-Clinton loses, meaning she runs in 2012. She is the presumptive front-runner anyway ("I warned Democrats what would happen and did everything in my power in the primary and general elections to prevent it ..."), but again -- whoever does run with Obama gets a stature-boost. Better for her to be on the ticket and deny a possible rival the spotlight boost.

To be clear: I'm not saying that Obama should select her (I actually have my doubts on that) or that such crass political calculations should be the main basis upon which to seek or accept the VP slot (they shouldn't); or even that the VP slot is inherently worthwhile (in point of fact it should be abolished). But ... crass political considerations remain unavoidable, and there they are.

Comments

[10000Lakes]

Sure, and why don't you take a pie plate full of dog crap to your next cocktail party and see how well that goes over. Sorry, no Billary stinking up the ticket.

Hillary, anywhere near the ticket will make it a lock that long lines of Repubs and Indys will line up to vote her out.

[AlwaysforHillary]

Hillary should NEVER ACCEPT second place!!!

She DESERVES this nomination to be the PRESIDENT!!!!

Obama can run again in 8 years and he'll be in his 50's. In 8 years, Hillary would be 68. I doubt she would run at that age!

Hillary DESERVES THIS NOMINATION AND SHE WILL WIN IT!!!!!!

[RedDogBear]

I'm sorry but I don't UNDERSTAND your LOGIC. Is there a REASON that Hillary deserves to be president? There is now way she will have more delegates than Obama so why does she DESERVE to be PRESIDENT???

[LeoMarvin]

ZZzzzz.........

....zzZZZZzzz......

[MsLiz]

I deserve a better husband and a Supreme Court appointment.

[oafishcad]

Does your husband know that you feel that way about him? Maybe you should get counseling. Doesn't seem fair to either of you. Poor guy.

[mutron]

AlwaysforHillary. Doesn't the lying bother you? What about the fundraising tactics? What about some of these people around Hillary like Mark Penn, Wolfson, Ickes, Begala, Carville, McAuliffe? How about that Sandy Berger and the Shenanigans and the ongoing Drama that the Clintons bring with them? Doesn't that bother you at all?

[lizinatl]

Barack Obama & Wesley Clark!!

Clark comes from the Clinton camp and brings Foreign Relations Experience & Military Acumen whose advice and council on Iraq and Afghanistan would be invaluable. He's also a Southerner white man (that will be key, you know)

...just a thought....

[BigSid]

Definitely a losing ticket.

[jmundstuk]

I think this makes a lot of sense, especially since Clark had endorsed Clinton. He doesn't carry a political base with him that is significantly different from Obama's but he does bring the aura of support of the Other Side, an effective military career and, by the way, a run for the presidency himself. He would be an effective VP and could be president if necessary.

[oafishcad]

And he's more progressive than Barrack and not seen as the wimp that Obama is. Oh yes he is, and he better work on that or he'll lose like McGovern, Dukakis, Kerry and Carter's second term, all lost because of the wimp factor. GOP spin yes, but still effective and real.

[moana]

Not convinced and this dialogue needs to stop.

Hillary will undermind President Obama as his Veep. That's her character. She'll be the sniveling snake in the background smirking about how she would handle policies differently, blah blah blah. She's divisive and cares only for herself.........and if you don't get that by now, stop posting blogs about it.

[prattvictory]

If Obama picked Hillary for VP, he'd have to take Bill along with her. Bill would constantly upstage him.

[BigSid]

I thought you Obama supporters felt Obama has all the charisma in the World. How could Bill upstage him if that's the case?

[KarateKid]

Ego, Sid, Ego. What have you been listening to when he speaks? He sounds like HE'S running.

[Doofus]

Is the point that she's earned the 'right of first refusal' for VP, as a consolation prize?

This *might* be good for the Demo party, but don't forget there are still a whole lot of
anti-Clinton voters out there, people who will vote against such a Demo ticket 'just because'.

There would also be the problem of what to do with 'President Emeritus' Bill Clinton and
his arguably overwhelming, overpowering influence on an Obama-Hillary administration, as
the third man on a two person P/VP team.

(No, 'first refusal' is not how to select a VP. Pick someone who will pull in votes, has
good judgment, won't be a lightning-rod for anti-Demo sentiment, makes good speeches, etc.)

[naschkatze]

The answer is a clear no. There are others out there who will bring unity to the party. She would continue to cause disunity in hopes of getting Obama defeated so that she could be the standard bearer in 2012. She and her hubby would stab Obama in the back any chance they. The Clintons have proved it in the campaign they ran against him. Furthermore, Obama has the prerogative to select his own running mate just as the good ole white boys have done in the past.

I hope Nancy is as firm about there being no "dream" ticket as she was about keeping impeachment off the table.

[hopelessobama]

she's gotten over 15 million votes, something jim webb, time kaine, or richardson could never do. if obama is a uniter, then he has to pick her, and in a lot of ways, she's earned the right to be on the ticket. and if he refuses, it gives her a reason to go ted kennedy on him all the way to convention.

[Leota2]

Uhhhh, No.
So when did being VP become a give Hillary something-- thing?
Isn't it about the presumptive choosing someone they respect,
could work with and who will not try to knife them in their sleep?
Why all of a sudden is Obama supposed to do something NO president
has ever done as far as a VP is concerned.
This is offensive to even think this way.
Why does Hillary deserve anyhing after the heinous, negative campaign
(she's still running?)
Give me a break . . . .

[Deaninphilly]

"Why all of a sudden is Obama supposed to do something NO president
has ever done as far as a VP is concerned.
This is offensive to even think this way."

Please do read up on your political history before making such comments.

I just love reading internet political know it all's!

[maryrat]

The VP spot is not "earned" by the runner up. The nominee has the right to choose whomever he likes.

[SayLessDoMore]

Those numbers (votes) don't mean much in this analysis. Re: Bill Richardson, scroll down to KarateKid & related comments.

Hillary is tough, not stupid. (Well, at least not THAT stupid) If she goes Ted Kennedy, her political career is finished for all time. Unless, like Ted, she too plans to spend the rest of her career in the Senate.

[KillTheMessenger]

Big laughs. Senator Clinton is a few hours short of putting on the white hood. After that stunt there will be no political position left for her.

[MSheppard]

It may be that HIllary would like the VP slot, even though it might not be the best political move for her. She might end up with a longer career and more influence staying in the Senate.

After the campaign she has run if she does become VP (unlikely) and Obama loses (even more unlikely at this point) her chance of getting the nomination in '12 would be as good as Liberman's was in '04, i.e. slim to none. There is no path to the White House for her at this point unless she can beat the then VP in the primaries in '16, when she'll be 69.

On the other hand, it would be crazy for Obama to ask her to be Veep in any case. She's divisive, and adds nothing to his ticket that he couldn't find better in someone else. She also might have a hard time fitting into the subservient VP role. Further, as others have pointed out, if she were the VP Obama would have to constantly watch his back. No one wants to be in that situation.

In sum, give it up.

[ecotopian]

I don't think Bill wants to play third fiddle. He was in this to get back into the White House, not the veep's.

There are better choices and Obama knows it. There is too much bad blood between them for this to even remotely work.

[ebbtide]

This is the worst suggestion I have seen. Hillary as VP? Why we could not believe a word she says, as she has proven herself to be a compulsive liar and also a vengeful, bitter person. She would try to boss Obama around and knife him in the back whenever possible for her run for president after she is vice president. And there is also Bill to consider. If he gets his foot into the White House, there is no doubt in my mind the both of them together will work, with lies and deceit, to disparage Obama because Bill Clinton will think he is the better president than Obama.

A very bad suggestion and I suspect Obama knows this.

[FarOutFish]

If any one really thinks there will be an Obama-Clinton ticket, I’d like to know what they have been smoking, and where can I get some. This is truly a ‘Pipe Dream’

Obama may make a pro-forma offer to Clinton with the understanding she will turn it down, but he needs her like a hole in the head. From an electroral standpoint Clinton brings nothing to the ticket.

Vice President John Nance Garner, FDR’s VP, called the office “not worth a warm bucket of shit”. (It was reported as a “bucket of spit”) That applies for Clinton’s ambition. Being A Senator carries far more power and prestige. The Senator would be a fool to ‘step down’ to be the ceremonial running mate.

In politics no one is a shoe-in. Obama could loose to McCain. If that happened, Clinton would be in position to claim party leadership with an unspoken “I told you so.”

[mellene]

I presume she'd settle for VP provided she hasn't already ruined the chances for the dems to win in November.

[grailknight]

YIKES! Surely you jest. While there is some punditry and bloggeteering about Hil planning for '12 if McCain wins, she has surely missed her boat. Americans are as tired of the Clintons as they are of the Bushes (full disclosure, I voeted for Bill twice). Should Obama serve two terms, and Hil decides to go again, she'll be pushing seventy. She'll not be offering us anything new. Moreover, as veep, she'll bring along Bill as vice veep. I don't think Barrack wants to spend his administration fighting discordant elements in his own WH.
There is only one logical reason for Hil to stay in the race: she's trail blazing for the next woman who runs for POTUS, as long as it's not Rice.