Obama, Clinton Dump Border Wall in Debate

The most interesting thing to come out of the Austin debate?

I thought that the most interesting development was the discussion around the border fence, better known as "El Muro de La Muerte" (The Wall of Death).

Asked about their previous votes for the infamous wall, both Obama and Clinton backed away from their votes.

For her part, Clinton was the better of the two in terms of the grace and intelligence with which she danced the Border Wall Flip-Flop; She used a recent border visit to launch into her epiphany:

CLINTON: And having been along the border for the last week or so -- in fact, last night I was at the University of Texas at Brownsville -- and this is how absurd this has become under the Bush administration. Because, you know, there is a smart way to protect our borders, and there is a dumb way to protect our borders.

(APPLAUSE)

And what I learned last night when I was there with Congressman Ortiz is that the University of Texas at Brownsville would have part of its campus cut off.

This is the kind of absurdity that we're getting from this administration. I know it because I've been fighting with them about the northern border. Their imposition of passports and other kinds of burdens are separating people from families, interfering with business and commerce, the movement of goods and people.

So what I've said is that I would say, wait a minute, we need to review this. There may be places where a physical barrier is appropriate.

I think when both of us voted for this, we were voting for the possibility that where it was appropriate and made sense, it would be considered. But as with so much, the Bush administration has gone off the deep end, and they are unfortunately coming up with a plan that I think is counterproductive.

'So, when all else fails, blame Bush' was Clinton's way around the Border Wall dilemma as well as Obama's:

OBAMA: Well, this is an area where Senator Clinton and I almost entirely agree. I think that the key is to consult with local communities, whether it's on the commercial interests or the environmental stakes of creating any kind of barrier.

And the Bush administration is not real good at listening. That's not what they do well.

(LAUGHTER)

And so I will reverse that policy. As Senator Clinton indicated, there may be areas where it makes sense to have some fencing. But for the most part, having border patrolled, surveillance, deploying effective technology, that's going to be the better approach.

Their change of vote and mind says much about the rapid rise of Latino electoral power this year. No one, not even most Latino pundits, had any idea of the force with which Latinos would enter this election. And, unless he wants to further push the Republican party into the desert of Latino voter backlash, John McCain will not be able to exploit the Democrat's Border Flip-Flop. The Arizona Senator who supported and then rejected legalization already has some immigration flip-flopping of his own to deal with.

Comments

[pochote12]

Just like other politicians, Obama and Clinton, failed to answer the question directly. I find Obama"s and Clinton"s position contradictory. Obama and Clinton both voted for El Muro de la Muerte to be built. And now they both balm Bush? Interesting, no? Along with El Muro came millions and millions of dollars invested to build it, hire more border patrol agents, and, in general, more "security" along the border. What good has that wall done? Nothing. Latin America"s economy is still recovery from decades of U.S. exploitation of labor and land (that still continues). Was the wall supposed to fix that? Is "having border patrolled, surveillance, deploying effective technology", like Obama calls for, going to keep our people from escaping the puppet democracies that only benefit U.S. interest? The same thing that Bush has done in the last few years is being advocated by Barack Obama and his stance on immigration. But yet Obama believes that more surveillance and security is the "better" approach? How is that for "change we can believe in" or social justice? I hate that most Obama supporters do not look at his immigration policy/stance and judge it. They act as if Obama is the best that has ever happened to the U.S. I feel that most of them are so caught up with him being black and leading the democratic presidential elections that we forget to judge him. His rhetoric on immigration, for me, is full of hypocrisy that sounds like that of Bush 4 years ago. I would hate for most of our allies (whtie, balck, asian, and other minority groups) to overlook Obama"s stance of immigration before voting for him. Do not blame just one person for the broken immigration system. Blame Bush and all those who voted for El Muro to be built about the "immigration problem".

[shinobinc]

Pochote, you raise a good point. The irony is that it's President Bush who was most opposed to the new-and-improved border fence, until it was essentially forced upon him by a Congress demanding it as a condition for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. (Just before they then, uh, reneged and scrapped CIR!) Dan Kowalski, another HuffPost blogger, pointed this out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-kowalski/pandering-means-never-hav_b_88596.html

I wonder whether the DNC Hispanic Caucus, or any Texas Latino Democratic organizations, will be more willing to hold either Clinton's or Obama's feet to the fire on the sincerity of their "retraction" on the Secure Fence Act, or just convenient flip-flopping to a target audience. I wouldn't be surprised to see either of the two bragging about their Secure Fence Act vote to prove their "get tough" credentials when going into the general election.

[milo9]

Lavoto, your open border position is guranteed to be a loser for the Democratic Nominee and American citizens. Are you trying to throw the election?

As the recession deepens, the wisdom of your prescription becomes increasingly suspect.

Why don't you apply your intellect to the inequalities in Mexico, that would really be helpful.

Most people do not hate immigrants, they hate our open border and the lack of realistic immigration policies. You always obfuscate the difference.

[larry278]

If W doesn't tear down the wall between the USA & Mejico-President Obama will have the wall torn down shortly after 1/20/09.

[clr2]

We must secure the border, deport all ILLEGAL ALIENS, heavily fine those who hire ILLEGALS, and return to the original intent of the 14th amendment and do away with anchor babies. Then we would have BILLIONS of dollars to spend on our own poor instead of paying for the education and health care of ILLEGALS.

[1will]

"Wall of death."
Who really calls it that?

[NABNYC]

The CNN questions seemed designed to slam the candidates and maybe help the Republicans. Why spend 15 minutes talking about Cuba? The few old corrupt bitter Cuban-Americans in Florida who still obsess on this represent a fraction of our country. The rest of us don't care. I want to travel to Cuba and do business there if I choose, and the rest of the nation should get over it. Remember, Cuba didn't attack us, we attacked them.

The questions about why should people have to speak English, no fence, no workplace raids, were all designed to stir up trouble and accomplish nothing.

Let's see, any problems with a bilingual society? Yes, there are. It's pretty well known that one country needs one unifying language in order to be able to communicate. The Spanish-language media might like to encourage people not to learn English, since if they understood English, they would use the English-language media. But it's stupid to say people should live here and not learn English.

The border wall: some people complain that it makes it harder to go back and forth? That's the point. Seal the border. Nobody should come in without permission.

Workplace raids? I'm all in favor of them. No raids, that just means people without papers can take Americans' jobs. Bad idea.

The CNN focus was fairly stupid, and the questions were too. Oh well.

[cynara]

I thought it was funny that Hillary Clinton said, in regards to immigration:

"I know it because I've been fighting with them about the northern border. Their imposition of passports and other kinds of burdens are separating people from families, interfering with business and commerce and movement of goods and people."

Thats great, but can the problems of the Northern border really compare with the problems of the southern border?

Take my border crossing, San Diego, home of the busiest border crossing in the WORLD (San Ysidro). It was last expanded in 1982, when a second border crossing (Otay Mesa) was added. It was built to serve 8,000 people a day - 20,0000 people now cross it daily. The average wait is over 2 hours. This border costs the cities around it billions of dollars in commerce. It is overflowing and understaffed, leading to extremely tense and tired border officials - who have a penchant for berating and belittling anyone who looks to of Latino origin. The border also creates untold tons of air pollution and respiratory problems, as thousands of cars idle in lines of up to 3 1/2 hours waiting to cross.

The cities around our border and the thousands of people that cross it every day have begged and pleaded for additional lanes and border crossings. But the answer is always the same, the federal government won't allocate the money to expand the border.

So, cry me a river about the Canadian border, we're drowning in pollution, frustration and neglect down here.

And if Hillary Clinton's measure of border problems is the Canadian border, she doesn't understand half the extent of the problem.

[cynara]

I thought it was funny that Hillary Clinton said, in regards to immigration:

"I know it because I've been fighting with them about the northern border. Their imposition of passports and other kinds of burdens are separating people from families, interfering with business and commerce and movement of goods and people."

Thats great, but can the problems of the Northern border really compare with the problems of the southern border?

Take my border crossing, San Diego, home of the busiest border crossing in the WORLD (San Ysidro). It was last expanded in 1982, when a second border crossing (Otay Mesa) was added. It was built to serve 8,000 people a day - 20,0000 people now cross it daily. The average wait is over 2 hours. This border costs the cities around it billions of dollars in commerce. It is overflowing and understaffed, leading to extremely tense and tired border officials - who have a penchant for berating and belittling anyone who looks to of Latino origin. The border also creates untold tons of air pollution and respiratory problems, as thousands of cars idle in lines of up to 3 1/2 hours waiting to cross.

The cities around our border and the thousands of people that cross it every day have begged and pleaded for additional lanes and border crossings. But the answer is always the same, the federal government won't allocate the money to expand the border.

So, cry me a river about the Canadian border, we're drowning in pollution, frustration and neglect down here.

And if Hillary Clinton's measure of border problems is the Canadian border, she doesn't understand half the extent of the problem.

[cynara]

Apologies for the double posting. The comment engine seems to be experiencing technical difficulties, this comment was posted twice and my other comment wasn't posted at all!

[RickCadena]

A very short while ago, I wrote about an article I read in Spanish in Mexico City's daily, El Excelsior, on Barack Obama, NAFTA, relations with Mexico & Canada, and immigration to the US.

Well, I rechecked the article in the Excelsior and found that its reference came from an article in the Dallas Morning times on February 20, 2007. That article is a must-read and here it is:

Barack Obama: I will repair our relationship with Mexico

I will repair the strained relationship with our southern neighbor


06:21 AM CST on Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Under George W. Bush, the United States has not lived up to its historic role as a leader in the Western Hemisphere. As president, I will restore that leadership by working to advance the common prosperity and security of all of the people of the Americas. That work must begin with a renewed strategic partnership with Mexico.

Mr. Bush took office vowing to make the Americas a top priority. But over the last seven years, the administration's approach to this issue has been clumsy, disinterested and, above all, distracted by the war in Iraq. Indeed, relations have not fully recovered since Mexico refused to fall in line with President Bush's rush to war.

Mexico's President Felipe Calderon just traveled across the United States but didn't even go to Washington, which isn't that surprising given how little Mr. Bush has done to improve relations.

Starting my first year in office, I will convene annual meetings with Mr. Calderon and the prime minister of Canada. Unlike similar summits under President Bush, these will be conducted with a level of transparency that represents the close ties among our three countries. We will seek the active and open involvement of citizens, labor, the private sector and non-governmental organizations in setting the agenda and making progress.

With our neighbors to the south, that agenda must include securing our border. The hard work of comprehensive immigration reform must be done at home; we will be a nation of laws and immigrants. But we also have to work with Mexico to crack down on both illegal immigration and transnational criminal organizations that threaten people on both sides of the border.

This will take new investments and new partnerships. Here's some of what we need to do:

¢Increase technology and real-time intelligence-sharing to allow U.S. and Mexican authorities to track and dismantle drug-trafficking cartels.

¢Invest in anti-drug education on both sides of the border to reduce demand for illicit narcotics.

¢Make a concerted effort to disrupt arms smuggling and money laundering from the United States that supplies Mexican drug cartels with weapons and funds.

¢Partner with Mexico to enhance the professionalism of its law enforcement and judiciary officials.

It's also time to develop a bilateral strategy for lifting up our border communities. Six and a half million Americans live in cities and towns next to the border, and 61 million Americans live in the four states that border Mexico. Too often we neglect the unique needs of these communities, which are integrated with their sister cities across the border. As president, I will work with state and local governments to enhance cross-border partnerships in transportation, law enforcement, environmental protection, health care and water usage.

At a national level, our diplomacy with Mexico must aim to amend NAFTA. I will seek enforceable labor and environment standards - not unenforceable side agreements that have done little to curb NAFTA's failures. To reduce illegal immigration, we also have to help Mexico develop its own economy, so that more Mexicans can live their dreams south of the border. That's why I'll increase foreign assistance, including expanded micro-financing for businesses in Mexico.

Finally, we have to recognize the connection between our rhetoric and our relations - both with Mexico and within our own borders. We can and should have a robust debate about immigration reform, but we should never demonize or scapegoat any ethnic group. Already, we have seen an unacceptable spike in hate crimes aimed at Latinos across America. This has proven divisive here at home, and it risks poisoning our relations with Latin America.

Our relationship with Mexico should serve as a bridge to greater security and prosperity in North America and to better relations with Latin America. But we cannot achieve this partnership unless we engage in sustained and focused diplomacy, and develop a more effective working relationship with our neighbor to the south.


Sen. Barack Obama may be contacted through barackobama.com. Viewpoints has invited Sen. Hillary Clinton to submit an essay on this topic as well.

As far as I can see, no other candidate of either party has offered a plan like this on such a touchy subject.

If anyone wants to talk about the immigration experience of leaving the land of one's birth and finding a place in an adopted country, that person has to come talk to me. I have an incredible "Tale of Two Cities" to tell, Los Angeles, California where I was born and raised, and Mexico City, my beautiful adopted city that made me. I adore my two cities.

Sin más por el momento, se les agradece la atención que se sirva prestar a la presente.

México, D.F., a 21 de febrero de 2007

[cynara]

I'm glad that he's focusing on Mexico too. I think the debates on undocumented immigration, drug policy and decline of blue collar workers have been completely disingenuous, because the conversations revolve only around domestic policy and solutions. However, the Mexican economy and political situation have directly contributed to these problems in our country and without working with our southern neighbors we will not be able to even begin to address any of these issues. Its high-time that a candidate highlighted our ignored interdependency with Mexico, and started focusing on making this relationship mutually beneficial, instead of a race to the bottom.

[DemandTruth]

Thank you very much for posting this (muchas gracias!). Not only is it an intelligent, reasoned, and compassionate approach to solving a very important problem/issue, it speaks out loud and clear to all those people who continue to claim Obama has no substance, no policy plans, only an empty slogan to repeat over and over. The substance, the meat is there for anyone who cares to look! Lifting Americans and our neigbors up through sound, compassionate, workable plans is what he's all about. It's too bad others are so busy calling us all delusional, they can't stop for one minute and really take a look at all that Obama will offer this planet!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOObama!

[RickCadena]

As an expatriate American who immigrated and has made his adult life in Mexico City (42 years here), I am so proud and happy to be able to say that I voted for Senator Barack Obama that I can not look straight. Thanks for the opportunity through the Global Website sponsored by Democrats Abroad.

Living abroad helps one understand the world better, and also provides one with other sources of information not available in the US, particularly if the immigrant learns the language and the ways of his or her adopted country without relinquishing or losing sight of who he or she is and where he or she came from originally.

Today's Mexico City daily, Excelsior, carried a beautiful article on Senator Barack Obama in the "Sección Global" or "World Section" and obviously in Spanish. The article laid out Obama's vision and plans on how to deal with redefining NAFTA, relations with Mexico and Canada, Annual meetings with the President of Canada and Mexico's Señor Presidente Felipe Calderón Hinojosa.

This is VINTAGE Senator Barack Obama reaching out in an all inclusive manner as he has done throughout his campaign. The article also said that Senator Obama also spoke of a way to restructure US society to set up a path toward integration and eventually citizenship for those already in the US. He also spoke of looking for ways to invest in Mexico and help Mexico bring itself up by the bootstraps, so that younger generations of Mexicans can pursue their dreams in the land of their birth.

My Mexican wife (Mexico City's most darling native daughter) has been cheering for Hillary because Hillary is a woman. But after she read that article, she came up to me with a look of amazement on her face and said to me, "Este hombre va a ser muy muy bueno para México, ojalá que gane" ("This man is going to be very very good for Mexico. Let's hope that he wins"). And I answered, "Pues, que bueno que lo estás conociendo. Obama es el mejor de todos los candidatos" (Well, it is good that you are getting to know him. Obama is the best of all the candidates"). Now she is cheering for Obama along with me.

The incredible thing about all of this is that I have not seen anything published or written in the US along these lines in English. I have scoured the Internet and cannot find anything like it so far.

The point that I have to bring to light is that it came to me in my second language, Spanish, the language of my adopted country. I hope US latinos get to read my blog on this subject.

When I saw Hillary bumble and stumble on the subject of driver's licenses for immigrants without papers and Obama staunchly defending driver's licenses for these people in the last debate in California, I knew that he was a winner and the best for our country.

I want and feel an obligation to share this information with all my fellow Americans.

Muchas gracias por la oportunidad de expresar mi opinión que tenga un buen dominio del idioma español.
México, D.F., a 21 de febrero de 2007

[nihilon x]

Thank you for that message.

I'm an African-American southern California resident and I have had nothing but good relations with the latinos I have met here, and at least half a dozen of them them have been from Mexico City itself. They always tell me that I should go visit and I certainly intend to do so in the future.

What always amazes me is how I will often find out how many of my friends are are half-Mexican and half some other ethnicity (asian, persian, italian -- I've met so many). This alone shows that our cultures can indeed co-exist in harmony. All that is required is a little time and understanding.

In my opinion, walls don't bring people together and there has to be a better solution to this issue than throwing up yet another boundary between our respective nations and cultures.

I just wanted to say that your words are indeed appreciated and I wish you all the best in the future.