Why We Feel Betrayed

With regard to African American voters, 70 per cent of your community sided with the same kind of bigots who supported slavery, who fought against interracial marriage, who vote to send your people who are addicted to prison instead of rehabilitation centers, and who vote to cut off aid to your families, saying that it is a 'moral' issue because 70 per cent of your children are born out of wedlock, and therefore, you should be responsible. These are the bigots with whom you sided! You got in bed with your enemies, the very people who have f----d African Americans again and again, in the name of 'morality' and their religious beliefs.

But I want to say that despite my overwhelming sense of betrayal, I am, as our community is, still firmly committed to continuing our fight against racism. Because, as Dr. King said, "injustice against one is injustice against all."

The California Supreme court struck down the ban on Inter-racial marriage in 1948, (Perez v Sharp), and thanks to the landmark Federal Supreme Court ruling in the case of 'Loving v Virginia', all state miscegenation laws were struck down in 1967.

And yet it wasn't until 1991, 24 years later, that interracial marriage was supported by a majority of Americans. Had the Caucasian people who supported "Yes" on Prop 8 been voting on your right to interracial marriage, until 1991, just 17 years ago, you would have lost. And as I sat in the California Supreme Court on March 4, 2008, the bigots used the same argument against us that they used against you. " It was 'tradition.'" And the justices answered, "so was slavery." And the bigots argued, "God doesn't want interracial marriage which is why he put the races on different continents." And in 2008, California Supreme Court justices ruled, "It is illegal to hide discrimination behind religious beliefs.

That is why we have a court system. That is why the United States constitution says that 'the rights of a Minority may not be denied by the Majority.' That is why Proposition 8 is Illegal. This is not just about marriage equality. This is about civil rights, which Dr. King said is for everyone. Bayard Rustin, the great African American leader who was gay, who called for and organized the 1963 March on Washington, D.C., turned over in his grave Nov. 4, 2008.

This is not an issue for only 'rich white gays.' Black male same-sex couples in the U.S. are almost twice as likely to be living with a child as a white same-sex couple. Black female same-sex couples in the U.S. are just as likely to be living with an adopted or foster child as a black married opposite-sex couple. Many of these African American couples want to get access to marriage so they can provide a more secure future for their children.

And Barack Obama, I voted for you -- even though you said your Christian religion would not allow you to support same-sex marriage. Well, I did not vote for you to be my Christian president. I voted for you to be my president.

You said you were going to be the president of all the people. You even mentioned the word "gay" in your election-night speech. Well, how can you be the president of all of us when LGBT Americans do not have one civil right on a Federal Level?

The gay community wants total and equal rights with the straight community, including marriage. Offering gays only domestic unions and civil partnerships are separate and not equal. When African Americans had to drink from separate water fountains, it was called segregation. It meant they were not good enough to drink from white water fountains, that somehow, they would 'taint' the water, because they were 'less.' To ask us to accept only domestic unions and civil partnerships are marriage segregation. It means that you consider our relationships to be less than yours, that somehow we will destroy the 'sanctity' of marriage. How has my marriage affected yours?

Fifty per cent of heterosexual marriages end in divorce. Eighty per cent of people ordered to pay child support, most of them men, do not pay it. Three out of every four children are sexually abused. And speaking of sexual abuse, the Mormons campaigned against us and for limiting marriage to one man and one woman. These are people, who, despite their denials, have not even begun to prosecute the polygamous marriages in which child sexual abuse is rampant. And they call us immoral.

We must not make this a fight with the African American community, or we will all slide to the bottom. That is what the right wing wants. We need to reach out and to keep educating minority communities. And we need to remember the numerous churches and religious Individuals and the 250 California rabbis who sided with us.

But, our passivity has ended. Tens of thousands of lesbians and gays will continue to Protest all over the USA, and we should not get off the streets. We must finally see ourselves as a civil rights movement, and act accordingly. Power is never given, it has to be taken.

What do we want? Equal Rights! When do we want them? Now!

Robin Tyler was the original plaintiff, along with Diane Olson, in Tyler vs. the County of Los Angeles, which gave lesbians and gays the right to marry in California when the state Supreme Court ruled in their favor. On June 16, 2008, they became the first and only gay couple to wed in Los Angeles County. Rallies are being organized all over the USA for Saturday, Nov. 15, in front of City Halls. [e-mail]

Comments

[TommyMcCarthy]

i see

[Chavie]

Part 2

People should know that without these equal rights your children will be taken away, your partner may not be able to inherit your estate, agencies will come in and take or disrupt your family. Believe me if it is explained like that, all those "religious" people and their chatter will fade and become background noise.

Why do I think this would work? Example: most organized religions don't believe in birth control. Most people know that their reverend, priest, bishop is not going to help raise all those unplanned children, come babysit. They hear the church directives and IGNORE them. It may seem simple, but it is effective.

Prop 8 should serve as a wake up call to the gay community. You are in a battle and you must fight fire (misinformation, fear) with fire (educate that you only want what's fair).

[nibbana]

It is very important not to buy into the media's dramatizing of the role that African Americans or any other minority group played in the passage of Prop. 8. African Americans voted by a 70+% margin in favor of Yes on 8 but they only make up 6+% of the population in California. What this figure does tell me is that education regarding gay rights within certain minority groups is lacking but essential. However, African Americans alone did not cost members of the gay movement their right to marry.

To educate requires 'coming out' and not being afraid. A very big issue especially when so many crimes of hate are perpetuated against members of the gay community. Coming out to your community to educate and have some kind of dialogue around these issues can be dangerous.

This is a complicated issue that needs the support of everyone on board - heterosexuals, minorities, church leaders who are open-minded (there are many) and gays to gather together and have open-minded dialogue.

Margie Savage, owner
Quantum Units Education

[Chavie]

Interesting responses here. Alot of angry responses. I have read most of these blogs on this subject and attempted to post several times. Let's see if this actually gets posted.

There is much work to do. I don't think you will have much success trying to convince a significant majority of AA's that this is a civil rights issue. The likely AA voter will identify civil rights with parts of families being sold as slaves, dogs and firehouses, lynchings, "white only fountains". I am one of them.

However, I would have still voted against Prop 8. The word marriage to many in minority communities as a religious issue. Therefore, the rights gays want have to be explained in terms that people under stand.

Part 2 to come

[RobinTyler]

(part 2 of comment)
But, despite your anger, I would rather have this dialogue directly out in the open with the African American community. It is not a matter of singling you out in the 'blame game.' It's just that, your vote hurt the most. No on 8 was weak, arrogant, and derelict in their outreach and education of minority communities. So any self-righteous statements they post don't mean anything. They didn't do the work.

I am 66 years old, and have been an activist since the 60's, marching for racial equality, women's rights, lesbian and gay rights. The past week of protests have been so diverse, in age, ethnic backgrounds, gay, straight, people of faith, that they literally, have started what one columnist called
"the Second Stonewall." This Saturday, Nov 22, 200 cities Nationally (in every state) will protest at 10:30 AM PST, 1:30 East Coast time, in front of City Halls. Protests will be held in 6 other countries!
We welcome everyone to join us. For those of you whom I have made angry, and especially, for those of
you hurt by my comments, I understand, both rage and pain. Hopefully, in the next 4 years, we will
see a change in this country that finally grants my community every equal right under the law, and your community, every opportunity that you have fought for, so long and so hard. Robin Tyler

[RobinTyler]

The article in the Huffington Post was part of a much lengthier article I wrote http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/no_more_mrs_nice_gay.php#more, talking about
the weakness of the No on 8 campaign, and the Democratic Party and their broken promises to our
community for the past 4 decades, by not passing civil right on a Federal
Level. In 30 States, it is still legal to fire someone if they are gay. I co-produced
18 PSA's,(we all volunteered, so they cost 0 money) using many celebrities as well as gay and lesbian couples. Dolores Huerta, co-founder of the United Farmworkers Union made 2 PSA's (Spanish and English). Frangela, 2 African American non-gay female disc jockeys made one, Sara Ramirez a star of Gray's anatomy made one, Wilson Cruz, African American gay actor made one, and yet, when I offered them to the No on 8 campaign, they replied that they did not need them. These were very educational PSA's, and yet, that campaign, who really lacked on the outreach and education in minority communities, would not use them. The link to these is http://www.youtube.com/user/TheEqualityCampaign. Despite the
anger directed at me and my community, I am happy that we are finally having this discussion out
loud. Of course the African American vote wasn't the determining vote! Of course I know the statistics about older vs younger votes, about other minority votes, about the fundamentalists who bankrolled this campaign.(­Continued)

[RobinTyler]

(continued from my last post)
But, despite your anger, I would rather have this dialogue directly out in the open with the African American community. It is not a matter of singling you out in the 'blame game.' It's just that, your vote hurt the most. No on 8 was weak, arrogant, and derelict in their outreach and education of minority communities. So any self-righteous statements they post don't mean anything. They didn't do the work.

I am 66 years old, and have been an activist since the 60's, marching for racial equality, women's rights, lesbian and gay rights. The past week of protests have been so diverse, in age, ethnic backgrounds, gay, straight, people of faith, that they literally, have started what one columnist called
"the Second Stonewall." This Saturday, Nov 22, 200 cities Nationally (in every state) will protest at 10:30 AM PST, 1:30 East Coast time, in front of City Halls. Protests will be held in 6 other countries!
We welcome everyone to join us. For those of you whom I have made angry, and especially, for those of
you hurt by my comments, I understand, both rage and pain. Hopefully, in the next 4 years, we will
see a change in this country that finally grants my community every equal right under the law, and your community, every opportunity that you have fought for, so long and so hard. Robin Tyler

[RobinTyler]

The article in the Huffington Post was part of a much lengthier article I wrote http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/no_more_mrs_nice_gay.php#more, talking about
the weakness of the No on 8 campaign, and the Democratic Party's broken promises to our community for the past 4 decades, by not passing one civil right on a Federal Level. In 30 States, it is still legal to fire someone if they are gay. I co-produced 18 PSA's,(we all volunteered, so they cost 0 money) with many celebrities as well as gay and lesbian couples. Dolores Huerta, co-founder of the United Farmworkers Union made 2 PSA's (in Spanish and English). Frangela, 2 African American non-gay female disc jockeys made one, Sara Ramirez a star of Gray's anatomy made one, Wilson Cruz, African American gay actor made one, and yet, when I offered them to the No on 8 campaign, they replied that they did not need them. These were very educational PSA's, and yet, that campaign, who really lacked on the outreach and education in minority communities, would not use them. The link to these is http://www.youtube.com/user/TheEqualityCampaign
. Despite the anger directed at me and my community, I am happy that we are finally having this discussion out loud. Of course the African American vote wasn't the determining vote! Of course I know the statistics about older vs. younger votes, about other minority votes, about the fundamentalists who bankrolled this campaign. (Continued)

[AvgPseudoIntellectual]

I am a straight, white activist in favor of gay marriage AND ending racial discrimination.

Here are my thoughts:

1) I have heard very little from within the LGBT movement regarding the difficulties specific to LGBT people of color. LGBT people in AA and rural communities alike face hurdles far more serious than the marriage issue. Equal marriage MUST be achieved, but for those in less tolerant communities, just staying safe is a bigger problem, and it deserves more urgent attention.
2) If you take away BLAME -- the scapegoating of AA's for the passage of Prop 8 -- there remains a parallel which is valid to mention. Discrimination and lack of equal protection under the law are problems which should, in the best of all worlds, be acknowledged as common threads shared by the LGBT community and people of color, as well as others.
3) Any suggestion that LGBT persons voting for Obama should have naturally produced a parallel voting bloc of people of color voting against Prop 8 is naive and misses a whole host of complexities. There is a suggestion there that by voting for Obama, a white person can claim a "favor" to people of color, which is inherently racist.
4) There are MANY moderate Christians -- including many clergy -- who are in favor of marriage equality. Anyone pointing to their Christian faith as a reason to have voted for Prop 8 is failing to take personal responsibility for one's prejudices.

[treynana]

African-Americans comprise less than 7% of California’s population. We cannot put anything on the ballot or pass any bill in the state without a lot of help from other voters. Latinos voted for the proposition more than 54% - they outnumber us in California. Whites voted for the proposition more than 40%. They outnumber us in California. Asians voted for the proposition more than 42% and they are – from what I was able to learn – nearly 4% of California’s population. Catholics voted nearly 91% and Evangelical Christians voted more than 90% for Proposition 8 – both of those populations outnumber African-Americans in California. The figure of African-Americans voting 63% for the proposition has been blamed for the passage – and it was not our fault. That was not our failure.
All who read this - please help us get the facts of this matter out.
Thank you for your attention to the truth. But now, you attack those among us for their religous beliefs - you never had a kind word to say to us and you never came to us to discuss the matter. Black people are always open to dialogue and always accepting of other's positions. Yet, because you did not properly work to show compassion to people and garner their support - you attack us and call us names. You are wrong and that is unfair and mean

[treynana]

We understand better than anyone the necessity of putting in the work and struggle needed to sway public opinion. We had to be violently attacked and passively resist on national television before it occurred to America that maybe, just maybe, the denial of rights – human rights, economic rights, liberty of movement and achievement rights, educational rights, health care rights and the right to be considered a human being because of the color of your skin – was not something that should be condoned by government - gay people have never been denied human rights because they are gay. They were included in the Civil Rights law with no complaints from us - even though we fought it and won it - everyone benefitted and we never begruged anyone the right to jump on it and benefit.

And to liken our voting for Obama as anything even remotely related to Proposition 8 is simply illogical. Who someone supports as a candidate is not anyone's right to call or demand, question or push. A lot of other people who did voted for Prop 8 also voted for Obama. No one owes anyone else their freedom to think for themselves or choose what they feel is best for them. Black people owe even less.

We are still fighting battles through issues with police brutality, disparate sentencing, unjust persecution, housing discrimination, employment discrimination and educational disparities all over the country.

[treynana]

African-Americans comprise less than 7% of California’s population. We cannot put anything on the ballot or pass any bill in the state without a lot of help from other voters. Latinos voted for the proposition more than 54% - they outnumber us in California. Whites voted for the proposition more than 40%. They outnumber us in California. Asians voted for the proposition more than 42% and they are – from what I was able to learn – nearly 4% of California’s population. Catholics voted nearly 91% and Evangelical Christians voted more than 90% for Proposition 8 – both of those populations outnumber African-Americans in California. The figure of African-Americans voting 63% for the proposition has been blamed for the passage – and it was not our fault. That was not our failure.

The attacks and hatred and slander that have been directed at us for a failure that is not ours since Proposition 8 passage is unwarranted, racist, unfair and undeserved – we do not deserve such vilification. African-Americans are the most accepting and embracing of all people and all lifestyles. The first ever gay men seen on television were African-American characters. E. Lynn Harris – a best selling author – writes books glamorizing gays – African-American women buy. Gospel music, which began in the African-American church, is dominated by gay people. You can walk in any African-American church, school or family and observe the gay members treated with dignity and respect.

[treynana]

Robin - you owe black people an apology.

I have been reading that African-Americans are blamed for the passage of Proposition 8. Please help our community get out the facts and not be “hate bashed” and attacked as “homophobic” and “regressive” as we have been in the past few days.

Like all bullies - the gay community is attacking the people it knows cannot defend itself. Less than 7% of California - if 100% of African Americans voted we could not get Prop 8 on the ballot or pass it but we are the ones being attacked. We are attacked for being Christian - which is our right. View the many gay people in any black church on any Sunday. We are attacked for voting - which is our right . No one else who voted in favor of 8 has been attacked - the large Latino vote, the large Asian vote, the large Catholic vote and the large Evangelical vote - all of those communities outnumber Black people in California.

Prop 8 passing was not our loss and it is unreasonable for the gay community to blame us for its failure to reach out, put in work, be kind to people. 70% of the new AIDS cases are Black women. I never heard the gay community express support or concern or offer any of the huge amount of information and resources it has to help us. I never heard a gay person say - "I am sorry to hear

[kutkreata]

Exactly. The issue of AIDS was dropped from the White Gay community's agenda once it became controlled in their communities and became a lower income minority disease. The White gay community stood silent on Jena, Sean Bell, Mumia, Genarlow Wilson, Katrina, the list goes on & on. Now when gay marriage comes up, Black people are all in the sudden supposed to identify with it, with no outreach whatsoever. Betrayal is what they call it. Amazing.

[antaeus]

I know there must be some reasonable African Americans who want to find common ground on this. You are not one. HIV/AIDS has not been "dropped" by the white gay community. But you raise an interesting point: why is that infection rates among white gays dropped while at the same time they soared among African Americans? Can you explain that? And while you are at it, why do you not imagine that same-sex marriage would benefit all communities in its tendency to promote dedicated relationships?

You are here raising your voice in a torrent of wild accusations and paranoia. How can we all go forward in order to help everyone and save lives?

[mbsq]

Here's how the debate needs to be reframed.

DEFENSIVE OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM INITIATIVE
"Any person qualified to officiate a wedding in the State of California may, at his or her discretion, marry or refuse to marry any two people at least 16 years of age, without any legal liability for such action. A wedding shall be considered valid in the State of California just in case it is between two consenting persons at least 16 years of age and is conducted by a qualified officiant."

If you are reading this and want to help and/or know something about the legality of this and how to get it on the ballot, find my email on the UCI website. I am the person who gave a talk on "measurability and cardinal arithmetic" in the math dept this week. That should be enough clues and avoid spambots.

[dallashailee]

Robin, while I was slightly offended by your tone in the opening paragraph, I understand your frustration and sense of betrayal.

African-Americans are overwhelmingly Christian, as am I. So they believe being gay is a sin and condoning gay marriage is seen as going against God. I myself do not share this belief and have found that when trying to show friends the similarities of how gays are treated today and how we as African-Americans were treated in the past...they get offended that I would compare being black to being gay. To be totally honest, I will fight for anyone to have equal rights, regardless of gender, color, sexual preference, or religion. But I would prefer my daughter to be straight (although I would accept her if she wasn't) Although I agree with you, asking people to accept gay marriage is asking them to go against their religion. When black people had nothing, not even rights to their own bodies, they had their religion. I wish African-Americans Christians were more progressive, but we as a whole aren't. The truth of the matter is, if it weren't for the Republican party totally ignoring blacks, most blacks would be Republican. On moral issues, blacks are more aligned with the Republican party. Not this black Christian, but most are.

[TXCourtney]

First of all, thanks for the civil tone. We may not all see eye to eye, but it's important to maintain a respectful dialogue.

I wonder if you think Muslim or Hindu marriages should be outlawed since they are not condoned by the Christian church. Or what about people who were in a previous marriage that had extramarital affairs and then divorced their spouse? Should they be allowed to marry again, despite the fact that they violated one of the Ten Commandments?

If gay marriage offends the consciences of the folks in your church, then don't have gay ceremonies there. But to say that no gays can ever be married anywhere is to infringe upon the equal rights that you claim to support.

[uheardme]

Blacks are "addicted" to prison? WTF???

[mbsq]

You didn't parse it correctly. It goes, "who vote to send your people who are addicted [to drugs] to prison instead of rehabilitation centers." Read carefully before you get outraged.

[mbsq]

prison is where they are SENT, not what they are addicted to. read.