Florida Moves Ahead Despite DNC Threat

Floridians - accustomed to being at the heart of Democratic politics - refuse to sit on the sidelines, despite the punishment meted out by the national committee. They are proceeding "normally" in selecting delegates to meet party criteria, urging super-delegates to follow the mandates of their Jan. 29 primary and staging rallies to tell the DNC it had better seat them at the nominating convention or face defeat at the polls in November.

"We will be seated," said Democratic State and National Committeewoman Diane Glasser of Tamarac, who is a super-delegate. "There should be a settlement of this controversy soon." She also noted that there have been "reports and rumors" that Party chairman Howard Dean wants super-delegates to vote in July to avoid a battle rather than wait until the Convention "but that would mean the DNC breakings its own rules."

The latest proposal - one that seems to follow Democratic National Committee regulations - is to withhold one half of the delegates when a state (like Florida or Michigan) holds a primary earlier than allowed by party mandate. One Florida super-delegate John Ausman of Tallahassee, a respected long-time DNC member, has suggested seating all 211 Florida delegates and giving each one-half vote (instead of a full vote) as a face-saving proposal to satisfy everyone.

But, even that proposal is getting slapped down.

Supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton --who handily won the Florida primary in January
by 17 percentage points -- are asking that all delegates be given their rightful full vote at the August 25-28 convention in Denver. Supporters of Sen. Obama have said Florida broke party rules and its vote should not count.

The insult to Florida voters is playing right into the hands of the Republican party and its apparent standard bearer Sen. John McCain, the state's leading newspaper, the Miami Herald, has editorialized. It said the current state of party affairs would lead to a GOP victory--and, with it, Florida's 27 electoral votes, the fourth largest in the nation.

"I am horrified, absolutely horrified," said Ann Zucker, a delegate-elect and President of the Democratic clubs of Broward County. "Who would possibly think that loyal Democrats would be overlooked in selecting the party's nominee?"

"This is a bad situation," said another Democratic activist Barbara Effman, president of the West Broward Democratic Club and a Clinton-allied delegate-elect. "Both the party and State made a mistake, but a record number of voters should not be penalized."

The controversy gets hotter day by day. The latest bit of pandemonium came this weekend when Palm Beach county Democrats - home of the infamous 2000 "hanging chads" of Gore vs, Bush fame -- signed petitions and staged an unprecedented rally to persuade the DNC to seat the full Florida delegation, according to the January results. Sponsors of the rally - which included both Clinton and Obama devotees -- said they hope to ignite a nationwide grassroots movement in support of Sunshine State Democrats.

David Berrey, a 26-year old Marine Corps veteran recently back from Iraq, told the Sun-Sentinel in Fort Lauderdale, he wants to be counted. "The voters didn't choose when to vote and they shouldn't be punished for it."

Several legislators and party activists said the DNC better realize "quickly" that 1.7 million Florida Democrats made known their preference.

The State party will meet again next week in Orlando to vote on providing delegates from party leaders and elected officials who want to go to Denver, while a final group of delegates will be selected May 17 in Tampa to be sure the State delegation has enough women, men, seniors, gay and racial minorities in its mix to send to the national convention "just as we normally would do," a spokesperson said. Other delegates and alternate delegates were chosen on March 1 in each Congressional District, based on the results of the Jan. 29 primary.

Local media has been making much of the fact that Florida's 211 delegates are a "significant number in deciding the nomination."

"To ignore Florida, would be unthinkable," said Justin Flippen, president of the increasingly powerful Dolphin Democrats, headquartered in the Fort Lauderdale area. "I am sure the DNC will come to some sort of resolution prior to the Convention."

Meanwhile, Florida's lone Democratic U.S. Senator Bill Nelson said he will propose a new nominating process based no longer on electoral votes (but on popular votes) and will also introduce legislation to hold rotating regional primaries in the future on pre-determined dates,

"Our current system is broken," said Nelson, who unsuccessfully sued his own party to force the DNC to recognize the January results. The Jan. 29 date, by the way, was set by the Republican-dominated legislature. The GOP has already cut Florida's Republican
delegation in half as punishment for the early vote.

The documents asking for a half-vote per delegate were sent by Attorney Ausman to the co-Chairman of the Credentials Committee James Roosevelt. Ausman and Janee Murphy, Secretary of the Florida Democratic Party, said they expected to go before the Committee at its meeting in Washington on April 14.

The Credentials Committee - which can make the final determination or risk a convention floor fight -- has about 200 members and has the power to decide who is seated at the party's nominating get-together. The half-vote proposal came as the last chance for a new primary by June 3 evaporated. Any chance for a re-vote is gone.

Michigan has a similar problem (it, too, had an earlier than mandated primary). But, doing a re-vote there - it was argued -- did not have the same logistical problems as it would have had in Florida, including the shift-over in new, as yet un-tested voting equipment and the question of who would shell out the estimated 10 to 12 million dollars estimated as the cost of another Florida election. There is also a daily reminder that only Clinton was on the Michigan ballot while Floridians had a choice of all Democratic candidates. Florida's Republican legislative majority say no state funds can be used for a re-vote and even Democrats oppose another costly election.

The comparison between Michigan and Florida doesn't matter anyway. The Michigan legislature adjourned without setting a new primary date, leaving that State in limbo, as well.

If the DNC and the candidates would agree to the newest Florida proposal ( ½ vote per delegate), Clinton would get an edge of about 19 first-ballot committed delegates, based on her lopsided victory in the Jan. 29 primary. There are also 25 Florida Super-delegates, out of some 800 party insiders nationally, who get to vote. Some insiders say Clinton has an edge there, too.

However, there is a general consensus that the l/2 vote solution would have little effect on the overall delegate count nationally as it stands today. Votes in Pennsylvania, Indiana and North Carolina as well as other states in May and June loom as the next big prizes and that could change things drastically, Democratic pundits are predicting.

In the meantime, don't count out Florida yet. Its leaders brazenly admit they enjoy being in the limelight, even if it is controversial.

Comments

[mrman]

If this nomination is STOLEN BY BOGUS MATH AND CHANGING THE RULES...THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY FOR THE ENTIRE DEMOCRAT PARTY...PERIOD!
Trust & believe African Americans and the American Youth will not sit by while Hillary Clinton steals what Barack Obama has earned. If she wins the nomination LIGITIMATELY...We're all behind her.
If She STEALS it....It's ON!

[M.S. Bellows, Jr. - Huffpost Blogger]

There's so much obfuscation around this issue, it's unbelievable!

If HRC was so concerned about Florida's vote in the general election, she should have objected at the time Florida was disqualified (and her key supporter, Harold Ickes, who sits on Rules, shouldn't have voted -- like EVERYONE ELSE on that committee!-- to disqualify it). And the overwhelming majority of Florida's Democratic legislators shouldn't have voted, right alongside the Republican majority, to break the rules by advancing the primary.

What's really needed is for Clinton to get off her soapbox, and Florida's Democratic leaders to stop disingenuously claiming it's all the Republicans' fault, and admit that they're as guilty as anyone of creating this mess. And Clinton also needs to stop pretending the Florida and Michigan votes actually represent the will of those states' voters, because they aren't. Once this issue stops being a political football, it can be resolved -- but not till then.

[TommyMcCarthy]

To the moderator: I have a comment for this post "stuck" ...on profile/not on post. Thank you....................tm

[ddc]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/09/02/obama-edwards-to-ignore-rule-breakers-936/

CNN, 9/2/07 - "Senators Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and former Senator John Edwards... joined three other...candidates...[in] promising to skip states that break party rules and hold early primaries. On Friday, the four states allowed by the DNC to hold their nominating contests before February 5...asked the Democratic field to sign a pledge not to campaign or compete in Florida if it violates party rules.
***
"We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process," Clinton's campaign manager said in a statement Saturday. "And we believe the DNC"s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar."
***
The DNC[] ruled...last Saturday that Florida Democrats would lose all of their delegates to the 2008 [DNC] Convention in Denver unless they modified their primary plans within 30 days."

FL & MI voters, what did you do to STOP the officials YOU elected from putting you in this mess? How long did your states deliberate changing the dates? What did you do? How long between the date the DNC told YOUR elected officials of the consequences of changing the dates and the unauthorized primary date? WHAT DID YOU DO? How many of you pressured the people YOU elected not to do this to you?

[ladygreenslippers]

what the hell are we talking about here - the rules were set, they were warned, they broke the rules, now deal with the consequences. Rules mean nothing now?

[TommyMcCarthy]

I'm going to speak REEEEEEAL slow and clear here.....

Florida is one of three or four large, diverse, swing, states THAT WILL DECIDE whether Sen. McCain or the Democratic nominee will be elected in Nov.
Just a reminder......
failure to seat Fla.= McCain administration.

Sen. Obama is reluctant to see the delegates Sen. Clinton won in Fla. count because they might diminish his "insurmountable lead".
Clearly, his attitude regarding what those (Again!) disenfranchised Florida voters might do in the general boils down to ....
"We'll burn THAT bridge when we get to it"

Trouble is, that's not Sen. Obama's bridge to burn......it's OURS.

Here's the..... "new politics/change agent/unifier" ......who was going to TAKE BACK our government for us......
And ALREADY we're having to try to wrestle it away from HIM before he hands it to the Republicans for another term.

The Sen.is failing miserably in the first significant test of his uniting/inspiring/uplifting skills that goes beyond mere rhetoric.

So far this looks just like the traditional politics we're all used to,...... in which,.......... no matter how lovely the PUBLIC statements of the candidate......behind closed doors..... he sounds something like this:................."The HELL with y'all.......what's in this for ME?"

Same-as-it-ever-was.
"Meet the new boss,....same as the old boss"
We're about to get fooled again..................................................................tm

[indie17]

No, the general election does not revolve around Florida. There are plenty of scenarios where Florida is not key. You are aware that Bill Clinton won the white house WITHOUT Florida in 1992, aren't you?

Even if Florida is not counted in the Democratic primary, that does not mean that the average voter will change his vote to Republican.

Why does it matter so much to you personally that the votes are counted? How about a seating with a 50/50 split?

I think Florida is likely going Republican in the GE, and would have anyway, just like it did last time.

[TommyMcCarthy]

So I guess Sen. Obama and yourself will decide on behalf of the rest of us (including the Floridians themselves) to cede Florida to the Republicans....have I got that right?

I think the question actually is why DOESN'T it matter to you? (Though I suspect we AND YOU know the answer)

If you think Fla. doesn't matter in the general you might want to factor in the opinion of President Gore on that one.

You're making my case FOR me (see above)................................................................tm

[jade7243]

Florida is one of 50 states that make up this primary selection process. I do not think FL Democratic voters would be so foolish as to sit on their haunches in November. But that is your choice not ours. You knew what would happen last fall when the decisions were made about the first four states to be on the DNC's primary calendar.

You all could have gone to the polls and voted for all of your ballot initiatives and left the Presidential selections blank. Now that would have been a statement. FL Dems could have funded and ran their own primary, but they didn't.

Stop with the folly that Senator Obama is preventing your vote from counting. The Florida Democratic Party did that.

Someone has to enforce the rules that your party broke.

With regard to the general election, you've been voting Republican for years now, so what will change? Not much.

Vote for McCain and Obama can still win without Florida.

[hrayovac]

If there is anything traditional about this year in politics, McCarthy, it is that couch potatoes like you are still looking for an excuse for why not to get involved and cynical about the first fresh hope to come on the scene that would change all the things you whine about.

So, throw out the rules if you're losing? This argument has no merit and neither does the tepid claim from Billary about the electoral college as if that were in effect during a primary. Thinking either Hillary or Obama wouldn't take Texas Ohio or Michigan or Florida in the general is a defeatist attitude and quite illogical based on the new polls which show Obama beating McCain. Where is the empirical evidence that shows that Floridians won't relish the chance to vote for a Democrat in Novemeber..they showed up in RECORD numbers even after they were told on national and local television that their votes wouldn't count because of the calendar shift. They are blaming the Republican congress , not Barack or the DNC, because they know what happened.

[TommyMcCarthy]

Do you believe that your argument is made more persuasive by insulting those you are addressing it to?

The tone of your comment is typical of the condescending, oh-so-superior tone of your average Obama supporter.

If you would pull your collective heads out of the clouds,...(or wherever "hrayovac"s head may be stuck).... for just a second........ you might realize that the argument for seating Florida is an argument intended to HELP Sen. Obama to win the general election.

I've long said that I'd be perfectly happy to vote for Obama in the general election....
Some folks can't stand the guy....but,.......so far......I'm not one of them.
With enough persuasionon the part of Obamites like "hrayovac".....
I may just get there yet..............
With absolute LACK of regard..................................................tm

[Binea]

So..are you saying you won't vote in Nov ? You are willing to be in Iraq for 100 yrs if needed? you want and even worse economy ? You want 2 more very conservative judges on the supreme court ? ok then..don't vote.But,you will have to face your fellow Americans and have to try and hide the fact you are one of those Floridians that didn't vote for Obama out of spite.

[sjmarie]

The other fair solution is to have a re-vote to allow voters who didn't participate because they knew beforehand their votes wouldn't count. I don' t know how people can continue to support Hillary when she lacks integrity and continues to twist the fact to her benefit.

[tlk221]

Your other "fair solution" has been suggested by Hillary as well

[ohiodem250]

How about seating the delegates but making them all count for John Edwards on the first go round? Then, after the first round of delegate counting if neither Obama nor Clinton have 2,025 each individual delegate would be free to vote their conscience.

[deejsmom]

Wake up Florida voters - your anger is so misguided - your state representatives and governor are the reason you are in the predicament you are in - you elected them - and now you want to fault Howard Dean and the DNC? Hillary wants to have her cake and eat it too... she knew what the penalties were and signed on for it before you went out and voted in an election which you all KNEW would not count - so what is up with this disenfranchised bs? What about the disenfranchised that didn't vote because they abided by the rules?

[follyeoa]

I guess you missed the part about handing Florida to the GOP in November.

[karela]

In nearly every state, Clinton started out way ahead of Obama because she had name recognition. As they both campaigned, Obama pulled ahead in 30 contests. Witness this happening again in Pennsylvania. Three weeks ago, Clinton had a crushing lead there. Today, she leads by just 5 points, and there are weeks left until the voting happens. For the Clintons to claim that seating FL and MI as they are, is fair, is ridiculous. The super delegates in FL are like the supers in MI; they're all wild to support Clinton. If we go along with even the 1/2 vote per delegate in FL, how does that address the big super delegate thing? MI and FL party leaders tried to cheat so that their states could influence the election more. If we all agree to let them come in at the end and flip the election away from the will of the entire rest of the country, we'd be rewarding cheating. It wasn't the Florida voters fault anymore then it was the MI voters fault, but the people responsible are the state party leaders. Get mad at them. How about if we let the rest of the states vote and then Florida and Michigan, including super delegates come to the convention in the same proportions as the totals for the rest of the country. That way, everyone is involved, but the other 48 states don't feel that they've been steam rollered by Florida and Michigan.

[Plowboy]

Clinton got slightly less than half of the beauty contest votes. For one who had so much going for her then, that was nothing to brag about. Barack who was still almolst unknown there got a third and Edwards got most of the rest. If they voted again, probably Hillary would getr fewer votes. Certainly she wouldc get no more. And many poor working folks didn't bother with the measningless charade. They would come out in a real contest for Obama. The Clintonites knowe this, but since they also know that no legal vote is possible, they can feed us this BS.
One thing this campaign is doing is showing Hillary to be worse than most of us thought, and I never had a great respect for her.

[afgail]

What was probably edited out of the above piece is how many more delegates Hillary gets if all the delegates are seated. If half the delegates are seated Hillary gets only 17 more delegates than Obama. But if they were all seated Hillary gets 34 more delegates than Obama. Pretty significant difference. To be fair to the voters and to Hillary they should seat all the delegates or give Hillary 34 more delegates than Obama.

[follyeoa]

Obama was running TV ads in Florida!!

[EvSmith]

Flagged

[indie17]

From the Washington Post, January 30th:

Clinton announced plans for the Florida celebration on Sunday (January 27th, before the Florida primary), the same day she held a trio of fundraisers in Florida and accepted the endorsement of the Miami mayor while pressing some flesh for the cameras. On Monday, her campaign claimed the endorsement of Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, while pro-Clinton unions continued sending out mailings in her support.

All of this sounded suspiciously like campaigning. But aides said they were merely trying to protect the people of Florida who, despite the campaign's "scrupulous" refusal to campaign in the state, showed up to vote for Clinton anyway.

[ljsfolly]

Where were these people demanding to be counted when Hilarry put the death stamp on them before the first super Tuesday. She thought the race was already wonand she was to be crowned and didn't care about either state or who voted. I am sure video is out there somewhere with her saying they should not be counted. Since she is losing now the votes count and the turn about is no mystery as is the rest of er campaign if it helps her she is for it no matter how many times she was againest it before. I think Hillary deserves for the states not to be counted like she said the first time. Didn't they all sign something showing agrement to not have them count? Drag the video the paper whatever out for her supporters in the states to see clearly she talk with forked tongue.

[PrdAmerican]

I'm really getting fed up with Florida...if you are that upset you should accept the DNC ruling, and PUNISH THE IDIOTS who did this to you...namely, DON"T RE-ELECT YOUR GOVENOR, or your state assemblymen who voted for this catastrophe. Why you are upset with Dean or the Dems is beyond me...afterall, even HIlliary accepted the decision BEFORE she realized how badly she would need Florida...her sudden affection for Florida is complete and utter B.S.. had she blown out Obama on Feb 5th, this would be a non-issue.

[ohiodem250]

Here, here! I couldn't have said it better myself. I tried to on another post and was labeled an Obamaton, Obama cultist, etc. Fact is, I voted for Edwards. I just call it like I see it.

[3billis811]

half the delegates to Hillary, the other half to Obama. Done.

[JWLANDSCAPES]

Gee Florida, Gee Michigan: We won't count your votes, but guess what? We need your delegates, appropriated in the manner we see fit, to give the candidate you didn't vote for, the delegate count we need to seal the deal for him."

Sorry, the 50/50 is a transparent INSULT!

[Ashman]

Or better yet, let"s reward the rule breakers by giving them the opportunity to ultimately be the ones who decide the democratic nominee.
The rules were agreed to before the game started and should be followed.

[swoosie1]

What? Are ya stupid or just an Obama supporter? The vote count determines the delegate count. You know this. Why is it that the Obama camp does not want to seat the delegates? It is because he will not get as many. Simple math folks. Do the right thing. Let it be know that the idea of disenfranchizing the voters there is not what the DNC wants, and if a mistake was made, which we all know is true, then let it be taken care of. Everybody was on the ballot. Nobody campaigned, the vote was cast and the delegates are assigned. What could be more simple than allowing it to be right again? I guess if you are Obama, you don't want this to be the case.

[indie17]

How about the fact that this sets a precedence for the DNC -- it's okay to break the rules?

How about the fact that all candidates agreed to these rules before the primary season?

How about the fact that the people that did NOT go to vote (since the vote wasn't going to count) are now disenfranchised?

How about the fact that campaigning wasn't allowed?

See, it's not simple.

[sjmarie]

sounds good, but Hillary is not going for it since it is not to her advantage. If she cared so much about florida voters being disenfranchised she would, but it's not about them, it's about her.

[tlk221]

?????obviosly the same as not counting them at all?????

[LucieLee]

Florida should not be decisive in the nomination process. Florida broke the rules.....and it is all these Clinton-supporters who are whining about it.. The nominee, when it is decided by the superdelegates, has the right as the head of the Party to seat both the delegations of FL and MI. But I , as a Floridian, do not want this state to be embarrased anymore than it needs to be. These are self-inflicted wounds that FL is givinf itself...they should stick to the punishment...and keep quiet. There is no guarantee that FL will go for the Dems in the fall anyhow...so that is a lame scare-tactic. I ain't buying any of it. I voted for John Edwards....so these whiny-sniveling ninies need to move along. We also voted for that property tax reform measure too....but folks seem to forget about that..........

[AnninCA]

G0 FLORIDA!