Experience vs. Inspiration
When I fly in an airplane I want the pilot with the most experience, not the one who can inspire hope in me that I get to where I am going. When I pay my taxes, I want the person filing them to be experienced, not the new person who inspires hope in me that he can do the job. When I hire someone to fix my washing machine, I want the tried and true experienced person, not the one who inspires me to hope that he can fix it. When I go to the doctor I do not want to get the one who inspires hope in me that s/he can cure what's wrong, but the one who knows what the hell to do the minute I call. It's not really the job of a public servant to inspire, but to get the job that the people demand done. The democrats think that if they have hope and are inspired things will get better, but they actually won't. When Oprah makes her employees sign her fifty page non-disclosure statement, she doesn't "hope" they can't break it, she pays teams of experienced lawyers to MAKE SURE they can't break it, or be sued in an experienced court by an experienced judge.
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This is a little off topic, but I was distressed to see the picture circulating of Obama dressed in African garb. However, I think the picture is not the story. The story is what Obama was doing in Kenya in 2006; assisting the opposition leader, Odinga then and forward, in his attempt to take over the government there. Where has the press been on this one?
I wonder how you feel when seeing white candidates or political figures dressed in African garb, as we've seen many times over the years? Senator Obama, his family, and several members of the MSM went to Kenya as part of Senator Obama's visit to his father's homeland. The trip was documented throughout, and this was just one of many pictures that were taken. I'm sure if he was there to assist the opposition leader Odinga, this too would have been documented.
It has been, but not in the mainstream press. Just go to Google News and Google Obama and Odinga.
As I said on a previous post that has since disappeared, Senator Obama traveled to Kenya as part of a visit to his father's homeland. He traveled with his wife, his children, several reporters, and others, and his trip was documented throughout. I did go to Google as you suggested and discovered that Senator Obama along with Condoleeza Rice, went to Kenya as mediators, speaking with Desmond Tutu as well as Mr. Odinga, in an effort to resolve the election crisis. This is not an unusual role for U.S. Senators, many of whom have traveled to Africa and throughout the world for similar causes. Not only do I not find anything distressful about this, but in fact, commend Senator Obama for this nobel effort. Also, as I asked in my previous post, would it distress you to see white political figures in African garb, as we have seen many times over the years? And if not, why does it distress you to see Senator Obama in such garb?
Please investigate further; that's not his only connection to this issue.
I think you have misunderstood my original post. I meant that I was distressed that such a picture was being used against him. I don't believe that he is a Muslim, as some say, but even if he was, I don't think that should be an issue.
He was visiting his father's village. Last time I checked, this was okay.
Obama wants to be friends with every enemy in and bad or good leader in the world .. It's what he is selling and that is down right naive and scary . This guy is going be torn up internationally. Its Jimmy Carter all over again
Oh yes. His father is African but he shouldn't be wearing that darned African clothing - even when he's in Africa. And you've also concluded he was "assisting" the opposition leader.
You're making it up as you go along. At least we know the National Enquirer will always have an audience.
Ms. Barr,
I agree with you but sadly Obama supporters are not interested in facts. They prefer the fun and excitement of belonging to a movement. Competence can't compete with a movement. What really frightens me is the tone. This campaign has gotten very ugly. Maybe in the end Obama will win the nomination but in so doing will alienate so many Hillary supporters that they either stay home or vote for McCain. Or do Obama supporters assume the end justifies the means? If Mr. Obama wants to win the White House he may find he will need all the Democrats, not just his rabid supporters.
I couldn't agree more. The viciousness of the attack against anyone who does not support Obama has been a real turn off. I personally know scores of Democrats who, if Obama is the nominee, will vote for McCain. It's a very sorry state of affairs for the Democratic Party.
The same is equally true in the other direction. At least Obama himself is not stooping to the nasty tactics HRC has pulled out in the last few days.
You can't be madder than I was at Kerry for the way he treated Dean, but I came around and voted for him and worked for him because Bush is Satan. If Obama is the nominee and you don't vote for him, then you will be enabling the overturn of Roe v. Wade. What Hillary supporter would want that? It's tough when your candidate loses. My heart was broken over Dean. But you have to buck up and do the right thing. And if you don't, you don't. This kind of argument is not even the tiniest bit persuasive for Obama supporters. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish. We don't respond to threats.
As I've said before, I agree too! Clinton's "experience" is one of FAILURE. Credit Obama for not going after this too hard, but she's responsible for the debacle of health care reform in the '90s.
You don't want an incompetent pilot, or an incompetent president.
The notion that experience=competence is one of the root causes of HRC's demise.
Scratch the surface and you'll find that there's no there there.
The good news in this is knowing that Roseanne Barr is able to type
He HAS More experience than her... Look at his record and then look at hers. Yes, she's older, but she's been largely in private practice or a "First Lady" of something. when she did try to get stuff done as the first lady she did a horrible job. Your Rovian argument fails.
If Clinton is so competent, what the heck is going on with her campaign. Staff turnover, miss managed funds. She is several million in debt, even with her personal loan.
She can't run her household, she can't keep her husband in check, and she can't run a campaign.
What would she do to the U.S. economy?
That's very Karl Rove of you Ms. Barr and Mrs. Clinton... Attack the opponent on their strongest trait and your weakest.
In her first six years she managed to author and pass into law 20 pieces of
legislation. These bills can be found on the website of the Library of
Congress.
1- Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2- Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3- Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4- Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5- Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6- Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7- Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8- Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9- Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of
his death.
10- Congratulate the Syracuse University Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on
winning the championship.
11- Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on
winning the championship.
12- Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution
Commemorative Program.
13- Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14- Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express
condolences on her death.
15- Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who
lost their lives on duty.
Barack Obama's legislative accomplishments are categorized, there's simply too many of them individually. During his first eight years in the Illinois legislature, Obama sponsored more than 820 bills.
* 233 regarding healthcare reform
* 125 on poverty and public assistance
* 112 crime fighting bills
* 97 economic bills
* 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills
* 21 ethics reform bills
* 15 gun control
* 6 veterans affairs and many others
* Many more miscellaneous bills
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills, and co-sponsored
another 427.
These include:
* Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - enacted.
* Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat
Reduction Act - enacted.
* Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate.
* 2007 Government Ethics Bill, enacted.
* Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, in committee.
Since entering the U.S. Senate, Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1,096.
Progresso8:
Stop skewing Obama's info. It makes you look silly and desperate. You know that Rosanne is talking about the YEARS of experience it takes to mature and grow in order to be a 'professional'. Obama just does NOT have the experience - or maturity yet. That's all.
have you seen this woman on the campaign trail? He exhibits far more maturity than her. You call what she did yesterday in RI mature?
Yeah, tell me all about Clinton's experience getting us all universal health care in the '90s. Some pilot - she crashed the plane!
"You know that Rosanne is talking about the YEARS of experience it takes to mature and grow in order to be a 'professional.'
And I suppose you base this argument on all the YEARS of experience it took to mature and grow the "professionals" who are currently in the White House.
Bill Clinton was the same age as Obam, when he ran for the whitehouse, with the same amount of elected expereince. Hillary wasn't crying out that HE was too young, or inexperienced!
I agree we want and need and deserve the best, some might say a professional, you know like we have had, professioanl politicians, they have done such a great job. What we need is fireman for politicians, people unafraid to run into burning buildings to save people that they don't even know. Whether or not he is the one, I don't know, but much as I would vote for Hilary because she knows where the bodies are buried, most people are pretty ticked off in this country at our representation, or lack of it in government.
Geoge Bush was a spectacular Divider, and if we don't bring this country together so we have strength, we are finished as a country.
He can bring out the independents and the young.It is our job to keep on demanding that he do the right thing. I was going to vote for Edwards, but we have to play the hand we were dealt now. He can win against McCain.
Just because you can bring people together doesn't mean you cant also do the right thing.
I love you but remember Roseanne you thought we were getting Rommney????
Ms. Barr,
I copied this list of accomplishments of Sen's. Obama and Clinton from another poster. Please read and tell what you think of Mrs. Clinton's experience.
Sen. Clinton, who has served only one full term - six years - plus an additional year as a senator, campaigning.
In her first six years she managed to author and pass into law 20 pieces of
legislation. These bills can be found on the website of the Library of
Congress.
1- Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2- Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3- Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.
4- Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5- Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6- Name post office after Jonn A. O'Shea.
7- Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8- Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9- Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of
his death.
10- Congratulate the Syracuse University Orange Men's Lacrosse Team on
winning the championship.
11- Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men's Lacrosse Team on
winning the championship.
12- Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution
Commemorative Program.
13- Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14- Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express
condolences on her death.
15- Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who
lost their lives on duty.
Barack Obama's legislative accomplishments are categorized, there's simply too many of them individually. During his first eight years in the Illinois legislature, Obama sponsored more than 820 bills.
* 233 regarding healthcare reform
* 125 on poverty and public assistance
* 112 crime fighting bills
* 97 economic bills
* 60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills
* 21 ethics reform bills
* 15 gun control
* 6 veterans affairs and many others
* Many more miscellaneous bills
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills, and co-sponsored
another 427.
These include:
* Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 - enacted.
* Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat
Reduction Act - enacted.
* Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate.
* 2007 Government Ethics Bill, enacted.
* Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, in committee.
Since entering the U.S. Senate, Obama has written 890 bills and co-sponsored another 1,096.
FOR THE RECORD, OBAMA HAS MORE LEGISLATIVE EXPERIENCE THAN CLINTON WHEN YOU INCLUDE HIS ILLINOIS LEGISLATIVE YEARS.
Err..Progress08: You left OUT a HUGE portion of Hillary's accomplishments. Typical.
Like her cosponsorship of a bill to criminalize flag-burning?
Thanks for helping educate Roseanne, Progress08.
Experience is without a doubt a good thing to have when you're doing any job. But why are the Clintonites framing this argument in purely quantitative terms? They're wrong on that count anyway, if we're talking experience as an elected official, and isn't that the only experience that counts at this point? Let's get real here: Being the spouse of a president holder does not qualify you for that office. Being a corporate lawyer doesn't qualify you for the presidency. Neither does parenthood, or sitting on the boards of multinational corporations. No, it's got to be the legislative record.
Let's look at the argument about experience in terms of quality. A pilot could have loads of experience with flying to the wrong destination, shaky landings, and safety violations. A doctor could be in the saddle for decades, merrily dispensing the wrong diagnoses and being sued for malpractice. Experience, but bad.
The legislative histories of Senators Obama and Clinton are on the record, and his is vastly superior to hers. She seems to be quite limited in her effectiveness, and her reach isn't large; she seems to focus chiefly on initiatives for women and children.
No offense to women--I am one--and who doesn't want the best for our children, but I think her record reflects a scope of interest and vision that is simply inadequate for world leadership. Quality of experience, again, coming up short in the Clinton camp.
I want a President who knows what truth means.
Guess who has my vote.
Then it couldn't be Obama. Obama misleads about his "consistent" opposition to the war; his relationship with Rezko; his relationship to lobbyists in his campaign; his participation in playing the "race card" against Bill and Hillary, etc., etc. There is no one in the race who is perfect and who always tells the truth. So, what else is new?
You know, it isn't that the press didn't cover these things. It did. No one cares. Tony Rezko is no worse than Norman Hsu. Obama's house is no worse than Hillary's cattle futures. And Obama was on the record as against the war when I was too. Can I tell you how enraged I was when Kerry and Edwards and Hillary all voted for the war? It was so obvious that they were afraid of looking like pansies and ruining their chances to run for president. I sent a letter to the editor here pointing out that Kerry's famous words against Nixon (How many young men must die so that he didn't have to be the first pres. to lose a war) now applied to Kerry (how many young men and women must die so Kerry can make a credible run for the WH?) Well same to Hillary. She let everybody down. And Obama was out actively opposing it, when his position did not require him to say a word either way. And his position has never changed, no matter how many out-of-context quotes you try to pitch.
Cinzano: Good to hear you're voting for Hillary. Glad you've finally clued into the truth. bravo for looking past the hype and con and seeing the light.
Go Hillary 08.
Excellent post, Roseanne. Ditto, hinnis.
Ah - dittoheads - that explains it.
Dear Roseanne: I tried to compliment you on your courage for expressing your opinions on an earlier post, but I was censored by the moderators. Since I will not be allowed to address the issues which I discussed in my censored post, let me just say, good job!
A few words for the Clintons:
1. TAX RETURNS
2. NAFTA
3. IRAQ WAR
4. EARMARKS (she's in the top 10 for giving them)
5. CLINTON LIBRARY DONOR'S LIST
6. SEALED WHITE HOUSE RECORDS
7. Voting to CLUSTER BOMB Civilians in Iraq
Answer these and promise that we'll lay off your backs...
.
Kyl-Liebermann
Acunningham:
A few words for the Obama fans:
1. Obama partial birth abortion vote.
2. Rezko - highly questionable real estate deal. Tax returns re: how he made so much money so fast on a community workers salary? And the book revenues don't cut it. Still not enough revenue to warrant - property purchases and lifestyle.
3. Iraq War -multiple votes see record.
4. Earmarks (he's running pretty close to the top. She just got her state more money.)
5. Obama's major corp donor list - tops Clinton's big time.
6. Obama's wife's huge salary increase on non profit hospital board - immediately after he won the election.
7. Obama doing nothing about the poor and sick being charged 3 times the regular hospital charges in the hospital above!! and being thrown out into the street, when they couldn't pay anymore.
8. Obama's yes votes on more funding etc.. re: Iraq war... bet you cluster bombs were part of that purchase package.
So to start: answer these and lay off our back.
Hate to do this to a fellow democrate, but you sound terribly weak with your hmmm...like, list. For example, you actually compare Obama's $300 K with the Clintons' $146,000,000.00 Kazakhstan deal???
.
2 million dollar advance on his book, bought the house.
Where are Hillary's records, in your shoe?
Michelle's salary is par with her peers.
You cannot deprive the soldiers of body armor for the war that Hillary helped to start!
Let's add "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL" to that list.
How about the LACK of full disclosure of their financial records.What are they hiding. . . ?
you don't want the most experienced person. you want the one that will make the best decision. in theory that is what experience is supposed to be. but that isn't always true. Experience is not just the amount of time you put in. It's what you get out of that time. I'm going to write that one more time so you can understand this Roseanne.
Experience isn't how much time you put in but what you learn from the time you put in. In theory it should correlate, but that is not always the case.
Presumably if you have more experience you are able to make the correct and informed decision. Like I don't know maybe voting against the war instead of going with the tide, because it's easier. Hillary Clinton has had more time in politics than Barack Obama, but does not have the wisdom or the courage to make the right decisions. That isn't experience. That is wasted time. You know like spending 8 years in the whites house, having to opportunity to make the changes you long for. Coming out and then talking about how you're going to change America instead of doing it when you had the chance.
okAcomputer:
Sorry but your inexperience shouts all over your post. Once you get the experience, you'll understand why it's so important to so many; especially for the position of President of the USA. Learning on the job is really NOT AN Option.
An example I can give is: Let's assume you are at least 30 years old. Tell me, did you know as much when you were 20? Yes, I agree there are plenty of brilliant 20 year olds around. But the 10 years life experience alone, the 30 year old has, makes an extraordinary difference - when it comes to making an INFORMED decision. Of course everyone and anyone - is going to make an error in judgement. I'm sure you have made more than one: and I'm also sure you haven't listed them all and had to grovel to apologize for the mistakes you made in life... for that matter.
But with those mistakes; or call them experience(s)... you have also learned much.
So to continue to defile and revile Hillary for voting yes re; Iraq is - frankly in very bad taste, given the zeitgiest (the time). She trusted her President - to do as he promised. It was out of everyone's hands. She was NOT responsible for invading Iraq and you know it. So just like you don't deserve to be repeatedly punished and attacked for learning and growing; neither should she... after all, she is human.
Now we could also start on Obama's mistakes - and start the same style of inquisition on him.
Fair is fair no?
By this logic bob dole should have been president over bill clinton, and nixon should have beaten kennedy. And really does anyone have more experience than Dick Cheney? Frankley McCain should get your vote. But i'm sure if it is hillary versus mccain in the GE, both hillary and you will conveniently stop talking about experience. So much for the fair is fair argument too in that case.
My point is simple. The purpose of experience to educate . The purpose of education is to make the right decision. He made the correct one. It is very easy to look back and say this was wrong. Everyone in this country can do that. The job of a president is to see it before it happens not after. And frankly seeing what this war would do was not a hard thing to see at all. And trusting George Bush, that wasn't hard to see as a bad decision. Nor is it a small thing. Or a small error in judgment.
Bill Clinton would have done well in his 40s except for the Monica thing, and uh, Whitewater.
Adolf Hitler was a very charismatic inspirational speaker and look what he did for Germany. They say Ronald Reagan was charismatic and he did more to dismantle America than Bush has done.
.
Funny, you have forgotten about the single most 'charismatic' living leader of all:
Bill Clinton [right up there with...who did you say? Adolph Hitler?]
.
Yes, there are so many similarities between Hitler and Bill Clinton. Do you think you might be reaching just a little?
Acunningham:
I think you're not well.
Ms Barr,
Please Obama has the most experience Period !!
This is Ms Clintons "First Time Ever" as an elected official so please get your Facts Straight !!
Obama Has "The Most Experience" As an "Elected Official" Representing People "Who Voted" For Him !
Years As An Elected Official:
Obama -12 Years
Clinton-8 Years
So Obama should be "Your Pilot" by "Your Own Words"
So thanks for helping people decide on Obama the one running with the "Most Experience" !!!
Vote Obama !!!!
-Sarge
Sarge:
Just for starters...you forgot her 8 years in the White House: And her years as First Lady of Arkansas..
Like it or not... it was a political JOB.. her husband was the elected official but you know very well - it's a two person position.
Ergo..
Hillary 08!
yeah, sure, and in that capacity she was an imperious FAILURE. Why didn't we get health care reform in the '90s? Hillary!
Nope, sorry, riding in the back seat isn't riding in the "hot seat".
Her husband was elected to office, she wasn't.
Though again, Hillary wants to claim 35 years of experience...when she left law school at 25 and she's 60 now. So she's basically counting every single time in her life to now as "experience," in which case she only beats Obama because she's older. He actually has more civic experience, working as grassroots community organizer, to her working in a corporate law office (she dropped out of working or the Children's Defense Fund in just a yea) to make money. And later her time when her husband was elected to office as Governor of Arkansas and later President.
Oh and if she wants to claim all the good things while Bill was President, than she has to be responsible for all the bad things. And she did screw up the one thing she was really in charge of in that time, getting universal health care passed.
Didi47:
Are you saying that the US is currently being run by Laura & George Bush? And California is being run by Arnold and Maria? I'm having a hard time recalling the initiatives that Nancy Reagan put forward during her time as "co-president"...please enlighten. Is it only the current spouse that is the co-president or do you include ex-spouses/boyfriends/girlfriends in that equation? Was Marilyn Monroe the reason that the Bay of Pigs was such a fiasco?
you are wrong.
world experience Obama can't even compete in years. We live in a globalized world. Also, name an accomplishment of Obama. Why hasn't he been able to get all these bills through as a Senator?? I'll tell you why... he is a good campaigner but a horrible legislator.
You got that right Roseann! Bravo!
When did you become an authority anyway?
you like hillary and that's your choice but don't make up stuff obama has the most facts.
Using your experience logic we should be electing nancy reagan.
mrdontplay:
You must make your parents proud.
Roseanne, your analogy doesn't hold water too well. Inspiring hope is one of the most useful tools that a politician/leader can have, and that ability cannot be gained with years of experience. Having a vision is everything in a leader. I doubt that Steve Jobs did any software programming on the iPhone, but he sure as hell directed his team to create an incredible product as he's done time and again.
Hillary is undoubtedly incredibly capable, and I hate to see all the Hillary bashing going on in the media and elsewhere. But Obama inspires hope, something which she does not, unfortunately. One thing already gained from the hope that Obama inspires is voter participation, which is a really big deal in a democracy.
So don't play down hope. I'd bet even John McCain would say that's what got him out of the Hanoi Hilton!
I love seeing positive eloquent posts for Obama. No doubt some people, mostly rabid fans of either camp, will continue to clash and see in black and white. I think the average person, though, doesn't have anything against Hillary, though some of us would prefer she try to keep things on a more high-minded note. Let's not forget we can't be reactionary and base all our moves on what our opponents are doing. That's the old-style politics that people are getting tired of.
Hillary Clinton decided to stay married to a man who cheated on her countless times through their lives together. He promised to make it up to her, but couldn't deliver, because he didn't have a hold on the American people anymore.
When she enabled Bill all the way to the WHouse, she threw Tammy Wynette under the bus and all the ladies who "stay home and bake cookies." But at least Tammy D-I-V-O-R-C-E'd George and made it on her own.
If Hillary had enough guts to divorce him and go it alone, I'd vote for her because she truly was a role model for women and girls in this country. But she's not. She needs Bill, she thinks (or thought.)
No wonder women in this country are in denial about how we constantly set a destructive example to our children, both girls and boys.
I am a Democrat, campaigned for McGovern, extremely liberal over 50 but under 55, and not intereste in the denial in this country about how women are treated and how we as women and girls "eat it" every day.
Who do we think we're kidding?
I couldn't be more disappointed by Billie Jean King, who I saw as Billie Jean Moffitt at the Marion Cricket Club years ago. Is it just about having any woman? What about Kaye Bailey Hutchinson? She's a woman. let's elect her? okay? or Condi Rice?
No, I think not. Is it gender, really?
She went along with Bush on Iraq (no matter what the meaning of "is" is)and what about the women and girls there? What about them? They're in DP camps whoring and hooking to try their best to save the lives of their family members... in Syria, in Jordan, wherever. These are girls and women whose country we bombed because little Georgie was scared they were gonna hit us first. Poor Georgie, we had to make him not afraid. We had to help him, and that is what Hillary did. She helped him, enabled him, just like she did Bill.
I really don't want her as President.
I don't care that she is a woman.
This past weekend she looked absolutely hysterical...I am so proud to be on a stage with an up and coming black man to shame on that black man! What a pathetic display!
She is pathetic!
darn,,,I thought I had written this...I am very liberal, 53, with the exact sentiments. ..very proud to be on the stage is this extremely gifted man. Hil is the wrong woman...she should have bounced Bill's sorry ass out of her life...their relationship is only about power and money
Any you know this because??
piegirlie:
Just for starters:
What about the girls in Illinois, whoring and hooking to survive. What has Obama done to help them in his 12 years as an elected official?
What about the poor and homeless and sick being thrown out of hospitals and being charged 3 times more than others... He didn't do anything to stop that in the 12 years he was an elected official..
he did NOTHING!
And in my opinion, your peeking into Hillary's private life... is immoral and yucky.
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