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Sam Harris

Sam Harris

Posted: March 15, 2011 12:36 PM

My Response to Rep. Keith Ellison



In the aftermath of the House hearing on American Muslims, Representative Keith Ellison appeared on HBO's Real Time to further testify to the benign nature of Islam. Attempting to bring some glint of reality to the conversation, Bill Maher posed the following question:

Have you read Sam Harris's book, The End of Faith?... [Harris] says, "On almost every page, the Qur'an instructs observant Muslims to despise non-believers."

The Congressman rejected this description of the Qur'an as "absurd, ridiculous and untrue"-- the result of taking certain passages "out of context." When Maher asked how jihadists can justify their actions by reading these same passages in context, Ellison claimed that jihadists do nothing of the sort. Rather, they think in terms of "political grievances," not religious doctrine, and those who oppose them have the true doctrine of Islam on their side.

It is not my purpose to defend the House hearing on American Muslims (which I did not get a chance to watch). But it is growing increasingly disconcerting to see moderate Muslims reflexively lie about the tenets of their faith. Of course, it's hard to know whether Ellison was actually lying or is merely unaware of the contents of the Qur'an. But I have witnessed too many of these exchanges with Muslim apologists, both in public and private, to ignore the general trend. Who will reform Islam if moderate Muslims refuse to speak honestly about the very doctrines in need of reform?

Here is the section of The End of Faith that Maher was referring to, in which I provide five pages of quotations from the Qur'an. Please know that these are not the only passages of this kind in the text. I simply broke off the litany sacred hatred once I felt I had proved my point. Even worse passages appear later in the book (in chapters 8 and 9, for instance).

(from The End of Faith, pp. 117-123)

Open the Koran, which is perfect in its every syllable, and simply read it with the eyes of faith. You will see how little compassion need be wasted on those whom God himself is in the process of "mocking," "cursing," "shaming," "punishing," "scourging," "judging," "burning," "annihilating," "not forgiving," and "not reprieving." God, who is infinitely wise, has cursed the infidels with their doubts. He prolongs their life and prosperity so that they may continue heaping sin upon sin and all the more richly deserve the torments that await them beyond the grave. In this light, the people who died on September 11 were nothing more than fuel for the eternal fires of God's justice. To convey the relentlessness with which unbelievers are vilified in the text of the Koran, I provide a long compilation of quotations below, in order of their appearance in the text. This is what the Creator of the universe apparently has on his mind (when he is not fussing with gravitational constants and atomic weights):

"It is the same whether or not you forewarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6). "God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15). A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24). They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85). "God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89). "They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]" (2:90). "God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98). "The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105). "They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114). "Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122). "[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126). "The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142). "Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154). "But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162). "They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire" (2:168). "The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172). "Theirs shall be a woeful punishment" (2:175). "How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism" (2:176). "Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190-93). "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not" (2:216). "They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith--if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God's mercy" (2:217-18). "God does not guide the evil-doers" (2:258). "God does not guide the unbelievers" (2:264). "The evil-doers shall have none to help them" (2:270). "God gives guidance to whom He will" (2:272).

"Those that deny God's revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge" (3:5). "As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire" (3:10). "Say to the unbelievers: 'You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell--an evil resting place!'" (3:12). "The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God's revelations should know that swift is God's reckoning" (3:19). "Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful--he that does this has nothing to hope for from God--except in self-defense" (3:28). "Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal" (3:118). "If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy. We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels" (3:140). "Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . . We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home" (3:149-51). "Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: 'Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass" (3:156). "Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward" (3:169). "Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178). "Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place" (3:195-96).

"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46). "God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: 'These are better guided than the believers'" (4:50-51). "Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55-56).

"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57). "That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection" (5:65). "God does not guide the unbelievers" (5:67). "That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers" (5:69). "You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . . You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: 'We are Christians'" (5:80-82). "[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell" (5:86).

"[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn" (6:5). "We had made them more powerful in the land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: 'This is but plain sorcery.' They ask: 'Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?' If We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would have never been reprieved" (6:5-8). "Who is more wicked than the man who invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?" (6:21). "Some of them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with you the unbelievers say: 'This is nothing but old fictitious tales.' They forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! They will say: 'Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the revelations of our Lord and would be true believers' (6:23-27). "But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all" (6:29). "Had God pleased He would have given them guidance, one and all" (6:35). "Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases." (6:39) "[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!" (6:43-45). "[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds" (6:49). "Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief" (6:70). "Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms them! With hands out-stretched, the angels will say: 'Yield up your souls. You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations" (6:93). "Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with vain and varnished false- hoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways" (6:107-12). "The devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming" (6:121-25). "If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers" (6:125).

Yes, the Bible contains its own sadistic lunacy -- but the above quotations can be fairly said to convey the central message of the Qur'an -- and of Islam at nearly every moment in its history. The Qur'an does not contain anything like a Sermon on the Mount. Nor is it a vast and self-contradictory book like the Old Testament, in which whole sections (like Leviticus and Deuteronomy) can be easily ignored and forgotten. The result is a unified message of triumphalism, otherworldliness, and religious hatred that has become a problem for the entire world. And the world still waits for moderate Muslims to speak honestly about it.

 
 
 

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04:32 PM on 04/08/2011
We should all be humble enough to understand that we who are outside of this faith may not truly understand it, and may not truly understand the messages given in the holy book. I as a christian cannot take portions of the bible and extricate it from its overall context.

We should be careful to not pass judgement on things that we do not fully understand.
09:03 PM on 04/02/2011
The critical error here is interpretation. The people you fight against are literalists. You use literalism to battle them at their own game. There are no winners. You present verses about killing unbelievers. Similar quotes can be found in the Bible. You do not present the collection of verses that instruct people to do good, to produce the fruits of Selfless Love over selfishness. Scripture tells us how it is to be interpreted when it reveals that the spiritual message supersedes the literal (literalism is 'dead' and 'kills' the spiritual message). Literalism judges humans along religious lines. The spiritual message is not about one’s religion, but one’s character. There are plenty of Atheists with more "God" alive in them than plenty of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Anyone can read the Bible and point out literal contradictions, as you do brilliantly, but when we look beyond the literal message to the spiritual message we find no contradictions. It is always about the nature of the Spirit of Selfless Love (versus the anti-Spirit or selfishness) and about the personal responsibility of sowing and reaping the Spirit. The Bible itself does not care if we consider its literal story "myth", because it is not firstly about the literal story. Believing in God is not about saying or thinking "I believe in God," but about personifying Brotherly Love. I hope you will one day ask me to send you copies of my award-winning books.
06:25 PM on 03/21/2011
The fashionable atheist writers (Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins) often seem to me to have more in common with fundamentalists than moderate religious believers of any stripe. Where a mature religious person understands that scripture is at best a prism (through a glass darkly) to view the world through, atheists insist to us we must only view our religions through the most strict and literal interpretation imaginable of our holy writings. As such, I suspect Sam Harris would get along with a fundamentalist better than I would.
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mrkurtzhedead
I'll be back, when it's dark!
04:59 PM on 03/27/2011
We judge you more by our actions. And they are not pretty.
06:15 PM on 03/18/2011
I can easily cite three consecutive verses from the book that will refute this ignorant article and Bill Maher and his willful ignorance. Surah 60 verses 7-9:

"-It may be that God will grant mutual love between those you hold as enemies. For God is all powerful- and God is all-forgiving and all-merciful.
- God does not forbid you with regards to those you do not fight you over religion, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For God loves those who are just.
- God only forbids you with regard to those who fight you over religion, and drive you out of your homes, and support others in exiling you, from seeking protection from them. And those that turn to them for support do wrong."

You see, it's important to know the historical context behind the Qur'an- but I feel it's sufficient just to take the Qur'an as a whole- as the Qur'an suggest it's sincere readers to do. Then you will find all the checks and balances-- the calls for restraint-- the limits. The people who overlook the many many calls for justice, peace, limits, and restraint are just ideologues- whether they be Islamic ideologues or Islam hating ideologues. Both of these groups have power seeking agendas.
08:43 PM on 03/17/2011
Studying the Quran, its historical context, and Islamic history is not being a Muslim apologist; it is simply not falling for the inaccuracies of articles such as this.

People devote their entire lives to studying the intricacies of the diction in the Quran, determining what their intended meanings could be, and debunking interpretations that could not be valid in the context of other verses or teachings. There are entire educational degrees based on it, and there is an entire school of thinkers who slave over it. So for someone who doesn't even read Arabic and apparently knows nothing of the history of these "violent" verses, it comes off as incredibly self-righteous and ignorant to claim to know more about a group's religious text than the followers of those texts themselves.

Muslims do need reform. But rather than slashing these verses that are misunderstood by those who don't have access to the knowledge that most practicing Muslims do, we need education. Translations of the Quran should ALL come with commentary on the side to help explain the verses. It's sad that, when googling a verse, one must scroll through misinformation and propaganda before actually finding sources by Muslims themselves. Wouldn't WE know best about what we believe?

The American Muslim is a great site that offers analyses of verses that are often quoted as violent but are not at all so when shown in their context. An example: http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary/
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Doug Sandlin
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.
10:38 PM on 03/17/2011
Thank you.

Agreed.

Faved.
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Richbruin
We'll walk this world together through the storm
12:49 PM on 03/18/2011
I followed the link and I have to say it is quite a stretch to take a simple statement like "Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them" into "love thy neighbor." There are problems with your argument on a number of levels. Basically you are saying that the problem is misinterpretation and lack of education. First, I can respect another group's relationship with God, but I don't have the time or desire to study someone else's religion. Second, regardless of the correct interpretation, passages are without question, being used to inspire terrorism. I can cite many quotes from OBL to back that up. Third, Muslim reform is generations away. In the meantime, hearings on radicalization are not only appropriate, but ten years late.
01:16 PM on 03/18/2011
It is not at ALL a stretch if you read the entire Quran. This is a book that says over and over "there is no compulsion in religion," that we should say "to your religion and to me, mine," that "Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve," and "If they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted myself to God’ And say to the People ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message” and “If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?”

Does that sound like the Quran commands people to kill others for their beliefs, or that this message makes any sense whatsoever? Violent verses were restricted to specific treaties that were broken, and only to that era in the seventh century. The Quran is clear about that, and it is explicitly clear that killing innocent people is ALWAYS forbidden, regardless of faith.

"but I don't have the time or desire to study someone else's religion."
You don't have to. That responsibility falls on the followers of the religion themselves.
01:31 PM on 03/18/2011
I disagree that verses are what inspire terrorism. Surely, they are used as motivation for the ignorant, but the view that attacks are ROOTED in verses is misguided.

One only needs to dig beneath the surface to see that the majority of terrorist acts committed by Muslims are largely driven by political issues, particularly the Palestinia n/Israeli conflict and the perception that Western forces are trying to invade Muslim countries and kill their people. A great quote from professor Mark Juergensmeyer: "..religion is not innocent. But it does not ordinarily lead to violence. That happens only with the coalescence of a peculiar set of circumstances - political, social, and ideological - when religion becomes fused with violent expressions of social aspirations, personal pride, and movements for political change."

An excerpt of a great article by Gary Olson, Ph.D., chair of the Political Science Department at Moravian College in Bethlehem: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0905-21.htm
"In 'DYING TO WIN: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,'' University of Chicago political scientist Robert Pape has collected data from all 315 suicide terrorist campaigns from 1980 to 2003, involving 462 individuals. His overall finding: The major objective of 95 percent of suicide attacks is to expel foreign military forces from territory that the terrorists perceive as their homeland. There is little connection with Islamic fundamentalism or any of the world religions. The taproot of suicide terrorism is nationalism and it's ''mainly a response to foreign occupation "
10:52 AM on 03/16/2011
Sam is right about the Qur'an, I've read it and the central theme is about demonizing the disbelievers. It's different than the Bible.

What I find ironic is the same people who say you can't blame religion for any of the bad it leads to are more than willing to credit religion for the good. "They're misinterpreting it, it's really about peace so you just have to blame the individual in this case or politics, economics, etc." Then: "Isn't it lovely that these people of faith are doing so much charity because their holy books tell them to"

So what is it....can you blame religion for stuff or can't you? You can't have it both ways simply because it doesn't fit your idea of religion. Religion leads to both bad and good but religion isn't even necessary for the good so it would seem to me that getting rid of religion would cut off some excess bad we have in this world.
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
06:41 PM on 03/16/2011
Apparently you did not!
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Craig2
Living in the great State of Jefferson
10:44 AM on 03/16/2011
As a younger man, a third may age, I studied the Koran (english translation) for a couple of years. Enjoyed the imagery, the poetry. Found the violence intolerable and put it aside.
09:26 AM on 03/16/2011
I guess someone needs to reform the Old Testament as well then...
04:18 PM on 03/16/2011
Maybe you have heard of him. His name was Jesus.
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09:23 PM on 03/16/2011
Good come back J Robbins
09:31 AM on 03/17/2011
So I guess equivalently, then, you could say Muhammed reformed the new testament? I mean, essentially that is what you are saying...

Also, I think there might be some Jews out there that would disagree.

Oh, and Jesus, as portrayed in the Bible, is simply an amalgamation of mythical characters from other religions, written by mere mortals such as you and I. He didn't actually write any of the New Testament.
09:19 PM on 03/16/2011
Sam Harris would completely agree with you, he also wrote a book called "Letter to a Christian Nation", check it out sometime. Sam Harris is not a right-wing reactionary Christian apologist. He is a level-headed, open minded, skeptical atheist liberal.
09:39 AM on 03/17/2011
"He is a level-head­ed, open minded, skeptical atheist liberal."

I view myself in very much the same light. I just don't see the need to make broad generalizations about any group, whether it's based on their religion or something else. Even if you actually analyze the texts that serve as the basis for modern religions, that doesn't necessarily give you any understanding of the people. I see religion as inherently more cultural than anything else.

I have a similar issue with Maher. As an atheist, I think he makes some great points about the absurdities surrounding religion, but like anyone else, he engages in an outgroup homogeneity bias. I don't see how analyzing individual lines in an ancient texts actually tells you anything about a person who might or might not strictly adhere to that text.

It's not that I'm a Muslim defender or a Christian defender or whatever. I was simply making the point that this type of analysis does little to further our understanding of other people, and instead perpetuates stereotyping.
08:13 AM on 03/16/2011
Sam, What a message of prudence on this issue. I expect you to be vilified when I read the comments. Thanks!!
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Jack Mahoney
Endless wars bring down empires.
08:01 AM on 03/16/2011
Keep on, Sam. So many would rather shoot the messenger than hear the message. Today's major religions were born in circumstances far different than our own. Whether or not their provenance is divine, they seem to have been useful in organizing communities, providing hope for the future, and keeping potential miscreants in line. When I read those lines above, I see bragging (a way to build a community's self-esteem--others use nationalism to the same effect): "We have the answer. We're God's chosen people (who else liked to brag about that?). Look at us. We're terrific. Sure, the other guys may have all the earthly goods, but we're gonna make out like bandits after we all die."
07:27 AM on 03/16/2011
The McCarthyism against Islam lately is pathetic, and driven mostly, it seems, by Christian reactionaries; funny, considering Christianity, and indeed, all religion, is well past it's expiration date in the modern world.
04:19 PM on 03/16/2011
You do not seem to know much about Islam. Or its view of the world.

I have nothing against Islam, as long as they leave me alone. You on the otherhand, seem to give license to those who have decided the Enlightenment is a bad thing.
06:42 PM on 03/17/2011
I know plenty about Islam. Just like Christianity, it's fine if you cherry pick it's doctrines and laws, leaving out the bad. But as with Christianity, it's still a centuries old patriarchal lie.

Of course, government should never pass laws regarding religion, positive or negative. Government, as far as I'm concerned, should treat religion as though it doesn't exist.
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09:26 PM on 03/16/2011
So you would like to live under Islamic rule Shari Law Christopher?
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MyNameIsJames
What should a person say in their micro-bio
12:26 AM on 03/17/2011
Do you mean SHARIA law Dennisrs?
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02:18 AM on 03/16/2011
Who will reform Islam? Not you, Sam.
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loOranks
I am the master of my fate; captain of my soul
05:30 AM on 03/16/2011
What's your point? Sam is himself stating that reform must come from 'moderate' muslims...

"Who will reform Islam if moderate Muslims refuse to speak honestly about the very doctrines in need of reform?"
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SaraSH
Athi*est Scientist Independent Old Fashioned
02:14 PM on 03/16/2011
Islam can't be reformed. Mohammad killed it by claiming it to be directly from God, that was his biggest mistake. Somehow, some people have to get ultra gutsy and go against that, but then the entire radicalists will go against those few, and reform will become impossible.
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Mr-Mikey
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA START
02:03 AM on 03/16/2011
Hey, why should we have civil discourse when we have Talking heads telling us Muslims are evil...

I mean, its not like many years ago we had a politician singling people for being Communists.. An its not like we didn't persecute Japanese Americans, or German Americans..

We got Political figureheads to listen to, they'll tell us who to hate.

One Religious fanatic is much like another, they've blown their entire religion out of context and condemned the rest of humanity to "Hell" .

But we all aren't Religious fanatics, which some posters here have strived to post... Muslims aren't al inherently evil, they don't all repress women, they don't all strap bombs to their chests an march into markets.

Just as not all Baptists protest the funerals of fallen soldiers, dead children, and other lost lives.. Nor do all Christian extremists grab their guns and start shooting up Political rallies or school grounds.

I'm Religious, I'm catholic by birth... Doesn't mean I'm eeeevil because MY religion has done a number of awful things in the past. Just like I shouldn't judge my muslim friends for finding a faith that suits their beliefs.

Worship or not, its your choice.. But it isn't your right to judge all others for the sins of a select few of a religion.
09:29 AM on 03/16/2011
I think we'll look back on all this, 30 years from now, and be embarassed at the way we marginalize Muslims in the US. History just repeats itself, over and over. It's like we didn't learn from Jim Crow, Japanese interment camps, McCarthyism, etc...
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mrkurtzhedead
I'll be back, when it's dark!
05:04 PM on 03/27/2011
How have Muslims been marginalized? Most religious hate crimes in the US are against Jews. Your comparison to what the Japanese went through in the 40s and the blacks went through is most foul.
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Bronxboy47
Old Enough To Know Better
10:54 AM on 03/16/2011
I really begin to despair for America's future when I read replies like yours. Your avoidance of every point Mr. Harris raised is astonishing. You're far too busy doing a not so cleverly disguised defense of your own religion: "...doesn't mean I'm evil because MY religion has done a number of awful things in the past". A mere "number" of awful things? How about a myriad? And "in the past"? Really? Why are so many Catholic diocese scrambling to declare bankruptcy at this very moment?

And you really give the game away when you mention people finding a faith that suits there beliefs. I thought the faith of the Peoples of the Book (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) was based on revelation, not on preconceived beliefs.

I would recommend a re-reading of Mr. Harris' article, but in your case I'm sure it's a lost cause. Reading comprehension, obviously not your strong suit. I'd even venture to guess you haven't ever read your own bible from cover to cover, though you don't hesitate to defend its contents without really being familiar with them. Don't feel strange, most Muslims haven't read their "Holy Book" from cover to cover either. Like you, they're more than content to be told what it contains.

Don't blame Mr. Harris for calling attention to the Koran's hate filled pages. Christians, Jews, and Muslims are at least united in their steadfast denial of the belligerent, petty, sadistic, and obviously man-inspired nature of their holy books.
02:09 PM on 03/16/2011
You mean the point that Islam has many messages of hate and moderate Muslims should publicly renounce portions of their holy book to satisfy Harris' own self gratification? That Harris seems to think that there is a quota on violence in a religious text that the Bible somehow falls under whereas the Koran doesn't? By the mere existence of "moderates" of any religious group it shows that they self-moderate and avoid teaching the more violent precepts of their religion. That should be self-evident in the same way that Christians avoid the insanity that is involved with their book and we should ask no more of the Muslim population.
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SaraSH
Athi*est Scientist Independent Old Fashioned
02:19 PM on 03/16/2011
I grew up in Iran and studied ALL the Abrahimic cults in DETAIL, including Koran ( memorized it, had to) and they all were JOKES to me as soon as I graduated elementary school and I was one of MANY who saw it that way. I am sure there are genes, or mal- brain wiring ( my term) that causes many people to be so blind to such common sense realities of life. It's a HUGE pity and I do apologize on behalf of my ancestors for creating monotheism, a movement that stuck so brilliantly!
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FTracy3
My micro-bio is as empty as the rest of my life.
01:15 AM on 03/16/2011
If a conservative had said to Ellison what Bill Maher said on his show last week about the Koran, all hell would be breaking loose.
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Bronxboy47
Old Enough To Know Better
12:03 PM on 03/16/2011
Motivation is everything, my friend.
12:32 AM on 03/16/2011
Sam: It matters little what is in the Koran. The majority of muslims have never read the koran start to end with the explicit intention of putting themselves in the shoes of the writer. Ditto for followers of Christianity. The bible is in fact a hodge podge of pagan tales and plagiarized material from Greek works like the Iliad. Nothing turns one into an atheist like studying biblical study. The works of serious scholars like Hector Avalos and Bart Ehrman are acutely unflattering to Christianity. Yet the average Christian is defiantly smug and glassy eyed. Their impression of their faith is a mirage created by their social connections, what's fashionable in religion, and contemporary culture. Likewise there are countless muslims from the liberal followers of the Aga Khan to the modernized muslims in Turkish cities to moderate strains from India to Indonesia whose impression of Islam bears little resemblance to the passages you quote. Their "muslim culture" is shaped by "muslim" poets, writers, sufis, regional leaders, political movements, and so on and so forth. Yes, their views of Islam have been sanitized. But on the substance of what is actually in the book, you probably are spot-on (and interestingly literal Jewish and Christian scriptures aren't that far behind . It's a little specious to attribute Islamic extremism entirely to those horrid passages.
longtimegone
my micro-bio remains empty
02:42 AM on 03/16/2011
You are making entirely too much sense.
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Bronxboy47
Old Enough To Know Better
11:26 AM on 03/16/2011
He's making no sense at all. If Islamic extremism can't be attributed to those horrid passages, to what can it be attributed? The Islamic extremists are precisely those people who have read those horrid passages and who are happy to terrorize their coreligionists into cowed silence.
04:22 PM on 03/16/2011
Because it is the religion of peace, after all, right? Just love those apologetics...
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charlietuna11
02:18 PM on 03/16/2011
you have it precisely right. its easy to determine who does serious research as opposed to those that live by slogans.