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The Perils of the Print Interview

Posted: 05/24/11 08:54 AM ET

Strange bonds of trust and self-deception tend to grow between journalists and their subjects. Janet Malcolm examines these fraught encounters in a fascinating book, The Journalist and the Murderer, which focuses on the relationship between Joe McGinniss, the best-selling author of Fatal Vision, and Jeffrey MacDonald, a Green Beret physician convicted of murdering his pregnant wife and two young daughters.

Malcolm's book is especially interesting for its diagnosis of the ethical problems posed by the standard print interview:

Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible. He is a kind of confidence man, preying on people's vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse. Like the credulous widow who wakes up one day to find the charming young man and all her savings gone, so the consenting subject of a piece of nonfiction writing learns--when the article or book appears--his hard lesson. Journalists justify their treachery in various ways according to their temperaments. The more pompous talk about freedom of speech and "the public's right to know"; the least talented talk about Art; the seemliest murmur about earning a living.

Malcolm is probably being too hard on herself and her fellow journalists here -- and in this way hoping to appear unsullied. Nevertheless, these are remarkable disclosures. As someone who has sat for his fair share of print interviews, I can attest to the insidious way that one's vanity and trust can work to one's disadvantage. Malcolm captures the resulting derangement perfectly:

Something seems to happen to people when they meet a journalist, and what happens is exactly the opposite of what one would expect. One would think that extreme wariness and caution would be the order of the day, but in fact childish trust and impetuosity are far more common. The journalistic encounter seems to have the same regressive effect on a subject as the psychoanalytic encounter. The subject becomes a kind of child of the writer, regarding him as a permissive, all-accepting, all-forgiving mother, and expecting that the book will be written by her. Of course, the book is written by the strict, all-noticing, unforgiving father.

Malcolm's fondness for Freud has not aged entirely well, but she provides an unusually candid look at how inimical a journalist's hopes often are to those of her subject.

In my experience with print journalists, the distinction between remarks being uttered on- or off-the-record is held sacrosanct, but the distinction between truth and falsity sometimes isn't. It is instructive that the magical power of the phrase "this is off-the-record" extends only to future utterances; it can never be used to take one's foot out of one's mouth. This temporal asymmetry has nothing to do with the second law of thermodynamics. Rather, it exposes the value that print journalists place on the prospect that their subjects will say something terrifically stupid.

Granted, the "gotcha" interview has its place -- for instance, when a politician discloses opinions or habits that will be of genuine interest to voters. But when the point of an interview is to convey information and ideas clearly, the motive to catch a subject saying something infelicitous appears bizarre. In my own case, the most inflammatory statements I have ever made are ones that I have written and remain willing to defend. And yet, some journalists act as though they have "caught" me saying that Islam is a loathsome religion, that its core principles are degrading and idiotic, and that, even in its wisest moments, it isn't fit to lick the boot of Jainism. I have sometimes found that if later clarification is called for -- perhaps I should emphasize that I'm speaking about Islam and Jainism as doctrines, not about Muslims and Jains as human beings -- journalists can be reluctant to incorporate such nuance, while remaining steadfast in their commitment to printing the original statement.

One might worry that such complaints put an unfair burden on print journalism. After all, with radio or television one doesn't get a chance to review one's remarks at all, much less amend them. But this ignores some important differences between these media. Print is the only format in which hours of conversation are regularly summarized, in whatever way a journalist finds pleasing, with perhaps only a stray quotation or two thrown in. From the subject's point of view, this allows for a frightening degree of distortion, accidental or otherwise. Compare this to television and radio where most interviews air unedited. Within these media, whether one is given 5 minutes or 50, one is generally allowed to make as much sense as possible without later tampering. Granted, these interviews can be hostile, or framed by other material, but one is almost always spared the surprise of seeing oneself fundamentally misused. The same cannot be said for print.

As Malcolm points out, the invention of the tape-recorder created an entirely new way to embarrass oneself on the page: for very few of us speak in perfectly fluid, grammatically correct prose. The mere transcription of spoken words, especially when only isolated quotations will be published, can make almost anyone appear less than articulate or forthcoming. As Malcolm says:

When a journalist undertakes to quote a subject he has interviewed on tape, he owes it to the subject, no less than to the reader, to translate his speech into prose. Only the most uncharitable (or inept) journalist will hold a subject to his literal utterances and fail to perform the sort of editing and rewriting that, in life, our ear automatically and instantaneously performs.

I have occasionally found myself in the hands of so uncharitable (or inept) a journalist -- where every "uh" and "I mean" was transcribed with a faithfulness appropriate to signals intelligence in time of war. When I complained that the resulting text made everyone look silly, reading more like a case study of neurological impairment than an interview, I was treated to a lecture about the necessity of maintaining the "naturalness" of my natural ineloquence.

As Malcolm observes, it is a striking fact about human perception that an exact rendering of speech is punitive to the subject only in print. Very few of us can have our speech transcribed without being made to seem less eloquent than we actually are. My friend and colleague Christopher Hitchens is one of the rare exceptions to this rule -- and it is precisely because he achieves what could be thought of as "print velocity" with his first utterance, and stays safely in orbit for paragraphs at a stretch, that he is such a joy to listen to. He speaks more or less as he writes. Which, given how beautifully he writes, is unforgivable.

The discrepant goals of journalist and subject are never more apparent than when one requests approval over one's final quotes. Whenever I ask to see the words that will be attributed to me in an article, I am generally accommodated; however, on those few occasions when I have attempted to improve these words with a little editing of my own, one would think that I had requested nude photos of the journalist's child. My efforts to sharpen up my earlier statements have been generally met by mortified silence, followed by a pious invocation of an editorial policy that does not countenance such behavior. I have had occasion to remind journalists that we had originally planned to conduct our interview by email, in which case they would have received my polished responses in the first place. More silence.

Of course, I'm entirely sympathetic with the desire on the part of journalists and their editors to print honest and natural speech. But it seems to me that very few consumers of media realize that print interviews present unique opportunities for distortion and, therefore, unique risks to their subjects. For what it's worth, I can say that whenever I witness someone appearing especially foolish in print, however deserving of criticism I may know this person to be in other contexts, my schadenfreude now rarely gets the better of my compassion.

 
 
 

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thebigbike
ran away to be a cowboy
03:19 PM on 05/29/2011
In the extremely unlikely case that some "journalist" or other would want to interview me, either for print or broadcast, I'll just say RIGHT at the very beginning, EVERY thing that follows is OFF THE RECORD

Then, if they'd like a "written" interview.... I can do that (after I have a trusted editor/copyreader correct my egregious typos and errors of fact and interpretation)

Then, I'll be grateful to all those interview subjects who don't declare everything off the record.
05:52 AM on 05/25/2011
It's a bit odd that Harris would be writing now about a book that's more than twenty years old, a fact he never quite gets around to acknowledging. "The Journalist and the Murderer" generated a huge amount of discussion at the time it came out, justifiably so. Sure, the issues are still valid, but for those of us old enough to remember the book's publication, this seems pretty stale.
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
08:00 AM on 05/25/2011
Us young whippersnappers need enlightenment too, yah know.
08:02 PM on 05/24/2011
The Huffington Post really needs to start giving Sam Harris and the like bigger spotlights, and brushing the infantile pap under the carpet. Fantastic article.
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Booshin
Progressive=Moving Forward.
04:18 PM on 05/24/2011
As a journalist for a small town paper myself, I really enjoyed and agreed with a lot of this article. Harris made some great points...but I think he associated a lot of undeserved negativity with journalism as a profession.

Should he be allowed to go back and review comments he made after the interview? Of course not. He should follow his own comparision of print to tv/radio. After those interviews, people don't get a do-over. Why should they in print? In the 6 months I've been a reporter, I haven't run into a single colleague who doesn't try to give every subject a fair and reasonable chance to explain their case. If they said something they regret during the course of the interview, but it's pertinent to the story and wasn't declared "off-the record" beforehand, I'm sorry...it goes in.
The biggest issue I had with this was his assertation that journalists often don't care about the distinction between "truth and falisty." I don't know who he reads, but the only core group of...journalists that fit that bill work at FOX news. The rest of us, even small-town paper writers like myself, lose our jobs if we report things as truth that are not. As well we should.
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dctackett
05:47 PM on 05/24/2011
I would certainly like to review comments that are going to be attributed to me before they are published... now obviously if something I said SHOULD be known by the readers, like if I were a politician and let something slip that I wouldn't want citizens to know... on television the viewers see me... with print they read whatever the interviewer (third party) decides to write and attribute to me...

but what if the interviewer didn't understand or the context in which they will write it completely distorts the idea trying to be conveyed?... I'm sure that is often enough the case.

I thought he was pretty far to journalism as a profession... now the person he is quoting was quite rough, and that person is, or was, a journalist...
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thinkingwomanmillstone
I'm nervous. My life is under a Micro-bioscope.
08:25 PM on 05/29/2011
There is a difference between print and TV or Radio interviews. We can see and hear the whole context of the interview in TV or Radio. We are reliant on the journalist to properly interpret the interviewee's remarks in print.I realize that editing can be done to a video or audio interview but there are usually ways to prove that as well. While editing or not editing an article should be agreed upon before the interview...at the very least a rebuttal should be allowed if there is a real difference of opinion as to what was said or meant.
02:01 PM on 05/24/2011
"Print is the only format in which hours of conversation are regularly summarized, in whatever way a journalist finds pleasing, with perhaps only a stray quotation or two thrown in. " -- Only a stray quotation or two thrown in? What is it you read? Most news stories of any length are full of quotations; many have too many.

"Compare this to television and radio where most interviews air unedited." Having worked for six years in radio, and having edited hundreds of stories, as does everyone in the business, I can tell you this is incorrect for radio. Having watched TV stories put together, I can tell you this is incorrect for television. In a televised story, when the camera turns to the reporter, that's one way to hide an edit.

"... very few consumers of media realize that print interviews present unique opportunities for distortion ... " As did this piece of writing. Everyone makes mistakes, but the vast majority of the hundreds of journalists I've worked with try very hard not to. Even rarer has been any attempt to deliberately distort information. Conservatives decry what they say are liberal leanings in stories; liberals bemoan conservative "slants." I've answered the telephone at several news organizations and heard the complaints. Which side of the equation is responsible for the distortion?
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
02:17 PM on 05/24/2011
I don't think Harris is even hinting at ideological slant. There are many reasons to distort a story, on purpose or on accident, that have nothing to do with ideology, and still feel justified in doing so.

Not everything comes down to political leanings.
11:32 PM on 05/24/2011
Accurate observation. I meant that as an example of distortions generated by the reader, not the writer, but I wasn't very clear.
01:30 PM on 05/24/2011
I'm a print reporter. It's not my job to make you look good or bad. If you want to control what happens, don't give an interview, period.

While "consumers" of media might not understand the opportunties for "distortion," they also don't understand all the bullshit manipulation that goes on before an interview typically happens. Ground rules, subjects on or off limits, questions in advance, etc.

My job is to be a mirror to you. Period. Can't stand the heat? You know where to go.

If it's PR you want, have your press folks write a release.

Ever been on a live radio show? TV interview? Why call out print reporters?

Sounds to me like you need a good media coach!
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
02:08 PM on 05/24/2011
Sounds like someone didn't read the article very carefully. He drew distinct lines between radio and TV interviews vs print.
02:09 PM on 05/24/2011
And idiotically called out print.
Poyda
Anterior Cingulate Cortex v Amygdala: Smackdown!
02:12 PM on 05/24/2011
Bahaha! If you think that an um and an arh is holding a mirror please let me know your publication.
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MilesToGo
01:13 PM on 05/24/2011
In all the years that I've spoken with people who were interviewed for print media, I have yet to hear
anyone report that their remarks were not distorted, substantially altered, or filled with omissions--often all three. There seems to be a communications problem with professional communicators.
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dctackett
05:19 PM on 05/24/2011
sensation sells... they aren't selling what you've got to say... they're selling eyeballs to advertisers...
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goodog
Honk if you believe in a public editor.
12:54 PM on 05/24/2011
Let's keep in mind that there's that other kind of interview in which Scooter Libby's lunching with Judith Miller specifically to deliver a well-crafted payload of bogus WMD propaganda or out a CIA operative. The subject is sometimes a well-rehearsed practitioner of psych-ops, a lawyer by trade who must either work hard to stay strictly on message without succumbing to urges of the ego to insinuate that he knows what he's saying is a load of malarkey, or he must choose his interviewer with an eye for most likely buy-in, a reporter heavily invested in future lunches instead of making a name off of more truthful reporting.
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edgraham
There is no magic
12:38 PM on 05/24/2011
The Nixon tapes and the Johnson tapes were almost impossible understand. I would have liked a translated version to read along with the audio.
12:23 PM on 05/24/2011
"print interviews present unique opportunities for distortion" So nicely written that I wish I could agree, but I really don't want an intermediary to smooth out the rough edges no matter how well meaning the intent. A quotation is and should be what someone says. The only problem, as someone indicated below, is when quotes are selective and therefore distort the speaker's message.
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dctackett
05:32 PM on 05/24/2011
some edges should be rough, while others should be smoothed out... I'd hate all written work to be straight transcription as spoken or thought... a lot of it just wouldn't make sense, there'd be a lot of "uh, um, and... and... and... and... like..." people wouldn't bother... hence the way it actually works...
01:03 PM on 05/27/2011
Which is exactly why I wish the press had quoted GWBush accurately, so that voters would have an even clearer sense of how that mind worked. Or didn't.
11:55 AM on 05/24/2011
Good stuff Sam, as always.
11:50 AM on 05/24/2011
Brilliant Sam ~ superb and meaningful insight, as always! Peace...
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ESerafina42
Abandoned by wolves, raised by Republicans.
10:43 AM on 05/24/2011
I'm sure things also often (maybe even more often) go in the other direction, where a charming sociopath can seduce an interviewer into portraying things as he/she wishes them to be seen. Is there any discussion of this dynamic in the book?
10:22 AM on 05/24/2011
"Granted, these interviews can be hostile...but one is almost always spared the surprise of seeing oneself fundamentally misused."

Perhaps, for good reason, you completely ignore Fox News, but you might ask Shirley Sherrod or the people at Acorn how they feel about that statement.

Good article.
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fairwitness
Not content with stunned disbelief
09:44 AM on 05/24/2011
Very interesting background on the interview process, thanks. The subtleties you discuss are so vastly removed from the usual massive, deliberately deceptive and aggressively malicious process on, say--oh, Fox News--it's like comparing the study of epistemology versus schoolyard bully taunts.

And it's the bullies that are determining the public schadenfreude, alas.