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Pray Away the Gay
Now I know where my mother failed. She didn't want me to be a lesbian and asked me if I could simply be asexual. Not involved with anyone. Worked for her, so why not?
What she really needed to do was have me pray. Read the Bible. Study scripture. Find God and embrace him.
He's a man, after all.
Stanton L. Jones of Wheaton College and Mark A. Yarhouse of Pat Robertson University are releasing today study results, if that's what you call it, at the regional conference of Christian Counselors in Nashville. (The full study results will be released on Oct. 10, in the form of a book by Christian publisher InterVarsity Press.)
Too bad my mother was an atheist.
"It comes as no shock that anti-gay 'researchers' at Wheaton College and Pat Robertson University would release a study that claims you can pray away the gay," said Truth Wins Out's Executive Director Wayne Besen. "I suppose their next study will provide support for Pat Robertson's theory that homosexuality causes meteors and hurricanes."
I wonder if that has worked for Ted Haggard? I mean, it didn't help him being the head of a ministry, but maybe all those men on their knees at the alter was too much pressure?
On one hand, if a bunch of Christian fundamentalists want to believe that you can deny sexual feelings by immersing yourself in prayer, then I applaud them. Personally, I don't see the point. As I told my mother at the tender age of 20, you mean, you want me to NEVER have sex?
Yes, was her very firm answer. What's the big deal about sex?
That's when I dropped the conversation because I was not going to explain to my mother that sex actually kinda rocked in my young, earnest opinion and there was no way in hell I was going to give it up. You just don't go there with your mother who was raised wearing white gloves and thought nothing of piling books on your head to teach you how to walk the right way.
It breaks my heart when I read about young adults being pulled into the belief that if they pray, be good to God, and really really really try, they won't be gay anymore.
The problem is, they are still going to be gay. And then what? Do those Christian counselors think about what kind of shame they are filling these young people with? Do they take responsibility for the attempted suicides and successful suicides of young LGBT youth?
Anyone out there think they 'doth protest too much?' Are they just trying to scrub out their own 'spots?'
I'm 44 years old. It took my mother 10 years to come around and finally not only accept me for who I am, but to read garbage put out by the likes of Jones and Yarhouse and understand how dangerous it is for young, impressionable minds. She never admitted to being wrong, but years later, in a quiet moment on a porch looking out over the ocean, she asked me how I made it through whole.
Who helped you? She wanted to know. I thought all homosexuals were unhappy, lonely people.
I shared with her the books by Ann Landers I read, the few friends I confided in who still loved me, the panicked hang-up calls to a gay and lesbian group listed in the phone book and the ultimate experience of going to a college LGBT group meeting.
I didn't mention the part of about kissing a girl for the first time and knowing, in my heart, that I finally knew who I was.
I told her I was lucky.
I remember how quiet she was after I told my story. She knew I was lucky, too. There were so many other, incredibly destructive, ways I could have ended up.
I'm old enough now to laugh off ridiculous, illegitimate studies done by people trying to prove their own point. I read the fine print, see the methodology used as beyond hokey and roll my eyes. I have my family, my friends, and my community who supports me for all of who I am, every day. I am ashamed when I don't recycle everything I can, but never about marrying a woman.
There was, however, a time when I was ashamed. I am so grateful there was no Christian counselor telling me to "pray away the gay." I cannot imagine how I would have recovered.
And every time I read one of these studies, I vow to be as out, as available and as open a role model as I can possibly be.
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I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't think the study was what was described above. Having read through it, I am now of the belief that this was less scientific than therapeutic. The study is not about a "cure". As we know it is not a disease that needs curing, but it was aimed toward individuals seeking counseling services of their own lifestyle choice. For people who are gay or believe that they are, but who wish to - for whatever reasons - live a lifestyle consistent with their personal religious values.
Based on that, the study was done to see if these individuals could live full lives without the sense of loss or longing, and enjoy what they have established through the power of prayer and such.
For that, the researchers seemed to think prayer works; no one ever suggested it as a "cure", and I do not believe the school from which the professors come from has backed it, embraced it or promoted it as such or as anything at all. It appears to be part of a book deal and publishing rights for these academics, nothing more.
You are both wise and brave. It has been said the issue of gay rights is the biggest Civil Rights issue in the 21st century. And my question is why is the United States so far behind the rest of the industrialized world in this area? For a nation born out of escaping religious persecution, we sure have done a "heck of a job" introducing it back into the mainstream.
I am a straight woman who is a bumper sticker bearing member of the Human Rights Campaign. Most of my friends are gay. All of them, for the most part, are happy. All of them will tell you any depression they have ever felt was, what others have said here, because of always living in fear or not knowing who was accepting of them. I always find it interesting when people condem those who are gay and then will admit they don't really know any gay people; or think they don't know any. Amazing. Close minded hypocrites are what all Americans should really fear as they will work hard to close doors and tear us all apart.
Being "gay" is simply based on a sexual act. With that fact established, what if we labeled all straight people by their sexual preference? What's the difference?
My solution to the haters has always been if you feel that way then let the gay population spend their money elsewhere and not pay taxes. After all, if they don't get equal rights, why should they be asked to pony up like everyone else? When you start talking money, even to the most "pious", you usually get a change of tune...quickly. I wish the same people who want to "pray away the gay" would try harder to "pray away the hate."
I'll push it one step farther- a straight teacher can talk about being pregnant in school- clearly a reference to a 'sex act' and yet a notice has to come home if my kids do a report on their family.
Like my seven year old is going to talk about lesbian sex.
An even better test of these Ex-Gay Ministries...send them to Lynne Cheney, and say we plan to try this sh*t on Mary.
The way to shut up these straights preaching ex-Gay nonsense, (when it's been shown time after time, after time, after time...these repaired gays...not so much.) You'd think EXODUS was the queer e-harmony, the way those guys find boyfriends.
Just tell those straights to try being gay for a year, and come back and tell us...."how'd that work out for ya?"
The ONE thing these CONCERNED and FAMILY groups just can't stand....a happy homosexual.
It jars their whole world view...then they have to ask,(just like every emerging gay/lesbian teen), WHAT ELSE DID THEY LIE TO ME ABOUT?
People who are comfortable with their own sexuality are also comfortable with others'. Whenever I see a televangelist talking about the "homosexual agenda" or how gayness is a dirty dirty thing, I think, "are they?" Because, growing up in the protestant church, I can tell you that there are lots of closeted and/or in-denial gay men running around playing family, trying to achieve that Norman Rockwell 50's-esque fantasy of the nuclear family. Sex and sexuality are such great empowering things, and the real shame is wasting time not enjoying it by living a complicated deception based upon an old old catholic book and the distorted interpretations that many have propagated around it.
As a flaming heterosexual myself, I can honestly say that no amount of praying would ever help me switch sides. :)
Why they ask it of the gay community, I'll never know. I believe homosexual people are born that way. There is no way to change what and who you are from birth, no matter how much you may want to.
The ONLY reason people "want to" change is because of outside influences.
No gay person would think twice about wanting to change if homosexuality was treated like heterosexuality and homosexuals were treated the same as heterosexuals.
Again I say that this is the precise reason why the fundies spend so much time and money on propaganda and misinformation to make sure that that day never comes.
This is nothing more than a VERY lucrative business for them.
Maybe if you met the right person...
(my other favorite response to being gay.)
THANK YOU!!!!! For years I have been telling people that I was born gay and I cannot even begin to tell you how many times those people looked at me like I was crazy. Being born gay is no different then being born with blue eyes or red hair. It isn't something we asked for but got anyway, and I am grateful for it and wouldn't want to be any other way. For years I've had numerous preachers and religious people tell me that I am wrong and that being gay is a sin and that there is no way God could have or would have made me this way. They continue to say that it's a choice to be gay, BULLSH*T! I am who God made me. And if it's impossible that God made me this way then what about hermorphidites, people born with both male and female sexual organs? Are the religious people of the world saying God didn't make them that way that they choose to be that way. If so then they don't give God enough credit for being open minded and nondiscrimanating. And if they have the balls to stand there and say that hermorphidites and homosexuals are wrong, a mistake, an abomanation, then they are saying the same thing about God. And in my book God dosen't make mistakes.
I was raised as a pastor's son who once overheard him say all gay people were "demon possessed." I attended Bible college at 18 (My choice, really!) and eventually broke down and sought help from church counsellors after years of frantic praying brought no relief to my sexuality. Later I attempted suicide because I found it impossible to change (And all the while I had followed Sara's mother's advice and remained celebate.)
Although those experiences are decades behind me and I am now a liberated, proud gay man, I still try (internally) to justify myself to those religious zealots who know nothing and deny reality and real scientific inquiry. About ten years ago I obtained a pink triangle tatoo, so that (I say this facetiously) IF I ever have to stand before the "Judgement Throne of God," God would see it and know that S/He had a LOT of "'splainin' to do."
I don't think you were following Sara's mother's advice. That was religion talking. You should go on and completely liberate yourself from your imaginary friend.
Do you seriously think that confused gay kids are even slightly influenced by "studies" from religious universities? Religious oppression of gay people just isn't news. Kids are already told that they can pray their "sins" away.
You're lucky you're mother was an atheist. Too bad more of us aren't that fortunate.
Yes, actually, I do, especially if they've been raised by religious families. Even moderates can lose their minds when it comes to their kids being gay.
They reach for anything and everything.
My mother was a lot of things I was not lucky for... but the clarity she had on religion was razor sharp.
Wheaton College...wow, that brings back memories. I was living in Wheaton as an adolescent. And I was also molested there, by a WC student, the older brother of a school-age acquiantance of mine. I wonder what they would have done back then, had I come forward at the time? I didn't (and still don't,) consider this a traumatic experience, possibly it was for him more than I, as he must have been scared witless that this little 10-year-old kid he was sharing cigarettes with and being fellated by could out him as gay and a pedophile with a few innocuous words to the 'wrong' people. Prayer can work for some, but I never was one who possesed that much faith. I have to admit that I was relieved when we finally moved to New Jersey, but not because I was away from that situation, but because the pressure to 'conform' from Wheaton's fundie community became too much for my family to handle.
These people try to convince gay people that the unhappiness and anxiety that they sometimes feel is because of their homosexuality. If a gay person does drugs, it's because of their homosexuality. If a gay person has relationship problems, it's because of their homosexuality. If a gay person has a bad day, it's because of their homosexuality. If a gay person is depressed, it"s because of their homosexuality
It's imperative that people, like the ones who did this "study", maintain a homophobic environment that causes gay people to be unhappy, ashamed and despairing. Without this environment there would be no market for "ex-gay" therapy or the HUGELY lucrative "ex-gay" industry.
Gay people aren't unhappy because of their homosexuality. They are unhappy because of the intense and constant homophobia of others and because of the homophobia that has been deeply instilled within them through a life time of abuse from friends, family, coworkers, pastors, politicians and total strangers.
These people are just extraordinarily well financed homophobes with a big soap box drumming up more business for their business partners in the nearest "ex-gay" cult headquarters.
Sadly, the mainstream media will eat this sh*t up and promote it without critique.
God, I"ll be glad when we finally move into the 21st century!
I disagree that the mainstream media will promote it. I don't see the real incentive in doing so.
But what I think they *will* do is play the "there are two equally relevant sides to every story" game that infuriates me to no end.
In other words, instead of reporting the facts (i.e. this is considered to be fringe research, not credible, peer reviewed, journal published, etc) they'll do the "some say this research is accurate. Others say it's not".
A lot of people who fancy themselves to be moderate seem to appreciate this approach because they argue it allows them to "make up their own mind".
But what usually happens in these cases is that people simply "make up their mind" to believe whatever is they believed in the first place, or whatever it is they *wanted* to believe in the first place.
Same deal with Iraq reporting.
"Bush says the surge is working but critics say it isn't".
Uh, okay. So if I'm the average, non-military/foreign affairs expert, how does that, in any way, help me to "make up my own mind"?
Answer: It doesn't.
If I was pro-surge to begin with I think "yep, Bush says it's working so it's working. Democrats don't like Bush so of course they are the 'critics'". And vice versa.
How about *reporting* what is actually going on and not just reporting what the two (already known) contrasting political opinions are?
Do those Christian counselors think about what kind of shame they are filling these young people with?
Yes they do~ shame, guilt and fear= control. They need control over people so they instill those three emotions so that people will for the most part control themselves. Organized religion = fascist control and has nothing to do with spirituality. The real question is Why are people so susceptible to it? Why do they give themselves over to this control? And what can help make them impervious to its power?
We lived in Colorado Springs in the 60's. When I was in the sixth grade I went to an outing at "Glen Eyrie", which was owned by the Navigators. I didn't know that they were Evangelicals. The outing a the castle was fun, but the "accept Christ" stuff was annoying. Fortunately I had been going to Methodist church from the time I was a baby, so I already knew how boring church was, and I only believed in a theoretical way. So, I was immediately put off by that kind of crap. Nobody talked about homosexulality except for calling each other "homos" and "queers".
For a kid that had problems at home and didn't already realize that religion really is bunk, I can see where it would offer a refuge, just like any other cult.
Churches originally wanted to preven all bodily pleasures, I believe. Over the centuries they had to gradually lighten up until they got down to the most "shocking and degrading" pleasure, sex.
It's so easy to traumatize kids over sex and then manipulate them for their entire lives. It's all secretive and nasty, so if you're part of the faithful, you don't even want to talk about it. What better way to control people.
Amusingly enough, only male to male sex is actually punished in the bible. There is no religious basis for prohibiting or punishing female to female sex. Then again, the Old Testament was written by polygamists (how many wives did Solomon have?).
In response to your comment, the repression of sex was one of many things taken from the roman religions between 90 and 300 years after Jesus died (I refuse to call him Christ because he wouldn't have known the meaning of that Greek word). It was kept because it focused more energy on the faith. Contrast this with Judaism where anyone who taught religion (including Jesus) had to follow all of the commandments and covenants or be branded a hypocrite. I mention this because "be fruitful and multiply upon the face of the earth" is a covenant. Rabbis at the time had to be married. Of course, if the mainstream Christians were right and Jesus was not married, the only reason for that at the time would have been if he was gay.
I didn't know about the Roman connection.
The most striking thing about fundamentalists today is that the focus entirely on issues that have to do with sex. That led to my hypotheses that they've been forced to do away with other prohibitions until they get down to the easiest one to maniuplate people with. ie. The puritans compared with current Christian fundamentalists.
The one exception I can think of is interfering with medical cases over when to terminate life. I guess it's logical to want to control the end of life if you want to control the beginning. Also, we're a culture of life, except in the case of capital punishment.
Actually, my only problem with capital punishment is that it seems inevitable that we have and will execute innocent people. Some high up government mandarin, was quoted as stating that executing a few innocent people was an acceptable risk.
Religion, in my opinion, is used as an excuse to be indifferent to the plight of the imprisoned. Genetics and environment, if you believe the blessed, can be overcome if you just give it up to Jesus. Fine, how many times have you heard some former thug say that if they hadn't met so-and-so, they would have been lost? What about the people that didn't meet so-and-so? Maybe they were out looking for work when so-and-so came around, and mister 'Amazing Grace' was just hanging out smoking a number.
It's all a crap shoot, take it as you find it and don't complicate things with religion.
I think I'll pray away the discrimination instead.
Wow.
The best part is, if new (credible) research comes out showing even more of a biological basis for homosexuality, die-hard Christians will bash and scorn science in general, like many do with evolution (and like many conservatives unwittingly do with global warming).
Apparently to a large group of the American population, science is only to be trusted *if* the results of a body of research are in line with what you personally *want* to believe.
This is in contrast to being skeptical whereby you want confirmation and such for ALL new results, regardless of if a particular outcome contradicts your current belief system in some way.
I think these fundamentalists realize they are losing the battle with science (with regard to certain explanations of behavior, evolution, etc) which is why they feel compelled to corrupt it with their own pseudo science.
First it was creationism, now this.
In a way it makes perfect sense. It allows them to trust science for 99% of life, ranging from astronomy to zoology and especially modern medicine (I don't see fundamentalists or global warming deniers refusing the latest medical treatments *supported by majority* of researchers, do you?).
But for that same handful of issues where science doesn't suit their needs, voila, pseudoscience (or dismissing science in general) fills the void.
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Posted September 14, 2007 | 11:24 AM (EST)