More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
GET UPDATES FROM Scott Bittle
 
GET UPDATES FROM Jean Johnson
 

Election Year Follies: The Disingenuous Jobs Debate

Posted: 02/12/2012 7:52 pm

You know how sometimes when you repeat a word over and over again, it starts to lose its meaning? If you listen to our current crop of presidential candidates, they're doing their best to do that with the most important word in this election: Jobs.

Unfortunately for voters, the fact that politicians make such comforting pledges on the campaign trail does not mean we're having a serious, coherent debate on the issue. Instead, we're being treated to a morass of slogans and glib promises. Given how crucial this issue is to most Americans, the electorate deserves a lot better.

So what should candidates talk about -- and what should voters watch for? A small dose of realism would be a start. Here's a modest proposal for a franker, productive debate:

  • Let's stipulate that fixing the jobs problem won't be quick and easy. It's probably in the DNA of politicians to promise more than they can deliver, but candidates who claim (or actually believe) that they have a foolproof recipe for creating jobs in this changing world economy are in fantasyland. The Obama Administration certainly didn't do itself any favors when its key economic experts projected that the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent in 2009. The Republicans lambast the president as a colossal economic failure, but their glib assurances could leave them in exactly the same position some four years hence, should one of them get elected. We need to replace more than 8 million jobs lost in the recession and create millions more to keep up with a growing population. The government estimates we'll need jobs for some 167 million people by 2018, up from about 154 million today. We're way behind.
  • Let's stipulate that brisk economic growth won't be enough. You can't create many jobs if the economy is not growing nicely, but healthy economic growth and a good employment picture are not the same thing. Between 2000 and 2010, the United States had stretches of reasonably good growth, but job creation was lackluster. The country lost about as many jobs as the economy created. Jobs were eliminated by technology; jobs went overseas. The economy grew, but many companies can thrive with fewer workers, and they don't necessarily need for the workers to be here in the United States. This is a seismic economic shift. It's a challenge that will be with us for decades.
  • Let's stipulate that tax policy is not the be all and end all of the debate. Listening to the current political discourse, you could be forgiven for thinking that tax policy is the deciding factor in whether we have robust job creation or not. Tax policy matters, but so do many other things--technology and innovation, research and education, immigration, government spending, regulation, and the legal environment to name just a few. And the truth is that the United States has had historically low taxes since 2003, and the economy's ability to create jobs has pretty much been at a standstill. Economists and politicians will probably debate which tax policies are best for job creation until hell freezes over, but clearly cutting federal taxes and modifying the tax code is not the whole answer.
  • Let's start distinguishing between short-term and long-term solutions. The U.S. economy is still recovering, and the European mess is still very worrisome, so considering some quick fixes to spur job creation is entirely sensible. But we need to be frank about how long these strategies can be sustained and how much they really do to create new jobs. Maybe cutting payroll taxes for another year is a good idea, and analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, for one, suggests that these kinds of tax cuts are among the more effective job creation mechanisms. Workers have more money in their pockets, and plans that reduce the employer's share as well as the worker's can make it cheaper to hire, and that can promote job creation. But if we do this for too long, we jeopardize funding for Social Security, which has financial problems looming already.
  • Let's zero in on how to get new more new businesses started. Economists seem as divided as the rest of America on the best policies for creating more jobs, but there is compelling research from the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation suggesting that most new jobs come from new enterprises. It's perfectly logical if you think about it. New businesses are starting from scratch--whatever needs doing, they need to hire someone to do it. Existing businesses may expand or diversify--and that's good for jobs too--but when it comes to job creation, getting new businesses up and running is about as close to a killer app as we have.

There's plenty more to talk about--what we're suggesting here is just a nudge in a better, more honest direction. The United States faces a long and difficult transition on jobs. Rhetoric, no matter how compelling, just won't get us there.

 
 
 

Follow Scott Bittle on Twitter: www.twitter.com/sbittle

You know how sometimes when you repeat a word over and over again, it starts to lose its meaning? If you listen to our current crop of presidential candidates, they're doing their best to do that with...
You know how sometimes when you repeat a word over and over again, it starts to lose its meaning? If you listen to our current crop of presidential candidates, they're doing their best to do that with...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 63
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
11:47 AM on 02/14/2012
GROWTH STRATEGY to RECOVERY/PROSPERITY
ï‚§ Federal government launches new programs for infrastructure repair and improvements, with contracts awarded to private construction businesses
 Government funds infrastructure improvements with a surtax on incomes over a million dollars—now the “job creators†will be directly involved in creating jobs
 Businesses hires new workers and unemployed to do the work—unemployment goes down and these new jobs can’t be outsourced
ï‚§ Construction businesses buy supplies, machinery, and equipment from other businesses, stimulating these businesses to hire more workers
 Newly employed workers pay taxes to local, state, and federal government instead of consuming taxes while unemployed—deficits decrease at all levels of government
ï‚§ New workers increase spending on consumer goods and services, stimulating the growth of these businesses and motivating investment in the startup of new businesses
ï‚§ Business profits go up--business taxes help governments at all levels to decrease deficits and restore essential services
 Newly employed workers now can afford to pay their mortgages, stay in their homes, remodel, or buy new homes—property values go up, neighborhoods are rejuvenated
ï‚§ Increase in business growth and profits cause investments and stock market to increase and replenish pension funds and 401-Ks
ï‚§ Government collects more Social Security taxes and extends the life of this program for next generation
ï‚§ Grandkids benefit from improved infrastructure (not stuck with the bill)
ï‚§ Greater economic growth translates into more jobs for the poor, less homelessness, and more upward mobility
08:01 AM on 02/14/2012
Good sobering thoughts. Here's another one; no matter what the tax code, if a country,organization, person etc focuses on capturing the future jobs that will be created by future technology and new industries, everything and everyone will be fine. Better than fine in fact. Safe extraction of natural gas, harvesting solar power from the sun, increasing public transportation to the point where it actually works for people etc etc. All we have to do is think forward and escape the old dying industries of our oil society.
06:10 PM on 02/13/2012
In general, I agree with the direction of the article. However, there are two points of contention:

First, federal income taxes have not been historically low since 2003. Federal revenue as a percent of GDP has hovered between about 16-19% since the 1950s and it was in that range from 2004-2009. I am assuming the author is making a veiled reference to the Bush tax custs. Tax revenue as a percent of GDP was:
2004 15.9%
2005 17.2%
2006 18.1%
2007 18.4%
2008 17.7%
It fell off in 2009 (15%) because of unemployment and stagnating economic growth.

Second, let's be real, a 2% reduction in the payroll tax has not done anything to stimulate the economy. It doesn't matter what academic economists say, we have experienced in practice. Besides, it is not wise to take money from program (soc sec) at a time when its long-term viability is in question.
photo
bbrown37
Wherever you go, there you are
03:37 PM on 02/13/2012
The root of this is the decline in demand for labor and who benefits from it. Automation is going to do away with more jobs. 3D printing technology is going to do away with large portions of central manufacturing. New energy solutions are going to do away with centralized energy production.

At the end of the day the question will have to be asked, when society requires less work to maintain itself, how is a human being valued?

This is going to require a massive re-imagining of what humanity does with it's time and who deserves to be compensated for it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Kittredge
sigh
05:48 PM on 02/13/2012
It seems like if a person doesn't have a job or lots of money, their value is zero. Humanity is equated with socialism. A person who can't get hired or earn money is a pariah in this society, with very limited ways or means to make themselves useful to it, yet they are seen as parasites by many.

This is what the unabomber predicted in his manifesto and wanted to prevent in his attacks against scientists. I don't condone his methods, but he seemed to see this a long time before most people did.

When humans aren't needed any longer, what do we do with them all? What do they do with themselves? Besides just try to survive in a society that treats them like ****, looked down upon condescendingly by those lucky enough to still be employed.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
11:48 PM on 02/13/2012
I think you are absolutely correct, but not for quite the reasons you may have intended. Yes, we are certainly going to re-imagine what we do and for how much.

There are certain crucial factors which absolutely must be considered if we want to maintain a stable society--one which is not going Athens on us. Ideally everyone who needs a job should have a job which pays well enough they and their family do not have to depend on government benefits. This concept is in direct opposition to the idea of such high productivity and efficiency courtesy of technical advances that the need for workers diminishes.

What this means is that we must not only educate every single child in America for 21st Century employment, we must find something to do with those who are out of a seat when the music stops in our economic musical chairs. Here is where the entire globe is going to have to moderate efficiency.

Think of how many postal delivery persons and bicycle messengers were put out of work when the fax machine was invented. Now we can communicate globally 24/7 in real time, and the Post Office is about to go belly-up. What are those postal employees who find themselves out of work to do? That was a well paying job which could support a family.

It appears our choices are not only innovate and educate. They include hesitate.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carl Caroli
Give peace a chance
02:49 PM on 02/13/2012
Let's focus on bringing jobs back to this country. We need to make sure human rights and environmental concerns are not ignored by American corporations looking to exploit foreign resources.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
gerald4
licensed mechanical and electrical engineer
04:40 PM on 02/13/2012
But presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama all created many FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS that economically required that US businesses relocate to foreign countries where labor, environmental, energy and other costs are less than operating in the USA.

Both Democratic and Republical legislators ratified those FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS into law.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Francois Bergeron
seeking sense
06:10 PM on 02/13/2012
Hey Gerald, need your input on this workforce shrinkage thing. I'm not sure what to make of it because we get different stories all over the place.
Is the shrinking workforce affecting unemployment numbers?
If so, is that a bad thing?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Kittredge
sigh
05:50 PM on 02/13/2012
What you said is exactly what this article decries, insubstantial, unspecific talking points that amount to nothing.
02:04 PM on 02/13/2012
Im a fan of FDR, he is listed by presidential historians as between the best, and 3rd best president in US history because he governed so effectively.

I wrote the Obama Administration in an email telling them, lets look at history of what we did in our last major fiscal crisis, and that was to start a federal jobs program, the CCC. I proposed we restart the CCC, when Bush took office our nations infrastructure was #7 in the world, I think it was 2010 but it ranked #23. What is to stop us from hiring some domestic workers, to get our infrastructure back to #7.

High-speed rail is often derided by conservatives because it does require some public funding to run it, but what transporation system doesn't? We subsidize the hell out of our highways, and the Corp. of Engineers running locks and dams, as well as the FAA managing air-traffic control. High-Speed rail is one of the most efficient forms of travel, it can rival airplanes over medium distances in terms of speed and when peak oil hits and the price of oil will forever increase, we will be glad we had some high-speed rail lines will be in place.

Rick Scott, Governor of Florida, denied federal funding for a highspeed rail line between Tampa and Orlando, even though it was proven to bring multiple millions of dollars into state coffers over a 10 year period.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Kittredge
sigh
05:56 PM on 02/13/2012
Problem with high speed rail is that it is massively expensive to build the lines, maintain them, and operate the trains, Then there is insurance. They need special ultra expensive insurance in case their train goes off the rails or crashes into something and they have to pay out to victims or their families of the deceased. It's hard for any politician to justify the expense in these economic times. I'm a democrat and would love to see high speed rail system across the US, but it just won't happen for a while unless the economy improves drastically.

I'm all for a national jobs program and repairing or replacing our crumbling old infrastructure.
09:29 PM on 02/13/2012
I hear all those cons, but I see Germany with an awesome Highspeed rail system and the last major accident was in like 1998. You can check me on this, but I wouldnt be surprised if Highspeed rail is safer than air-travel.

This is what I got off of a CSX ad. That rail can get 435 miles per gallon, per ton. Thats like 435 miles per 10 fat americans (I being one of them that weighs around that much) highspeed rail can easily rival and surpass air travel over medium distances, such as St. Louis to Chicago.

I hear a lot of cons to high-speed rail, but while most 1st world countries have high-speed rail and have made them work to great success, we have none. I don't wanna be a dying superpower, I want our country to be on the forefront of the best infrastructure, including rail infrastructure in the world, and no offense, but its attitudes like yours that are preventing our country from doing just that.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
11:54 PM on 02/13/2012
The problem with federal jobs is that you and I are funding the paychecks. We need employment where the money to make payroll comes from people who buy what the employer is selling.

I am all for high speed rail provided the ridership justifies the investment. Put together a consortium of private investors who have done their homework, and I might buy stock in the company, but we do not need any more Solyndras..
photo
CrnkyOldMan
I'll accept Co's as people when TX executes one
01:53 PM on 02/13/2012
I remember a Perry stump speech in which his plan was to (paraphrase) "Put a big Open for Business sign in America's front lawn". Now that's GoP rhetoric at its finest.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carl Caroli
Give peace a chance
02:51 PM on 02/13/2012
Actually that would have been a "for sale" sign.
photo
bbrown37
Wherever you go, there you are
03:28 PM on 02/13/2012
So we'd be putting the sign up in Mexico?
photo
CrnkyOldMan
I'll accept Co's as people when TX executes one
01:52 PM on 02/13/2012
All well and good, but if we dont fix #1: Money in Politics, #2 Trade deficit, nothing will change.
Vinkaye
None of the Above 2012
12:24 PM on 02/13/2012
Expect more yelling about abortion and gay marriage from now until the election. No one wants to address jobs and the economy, because no one has a real plan, both parties measure the economy only by Wall Street profit margins. No one is going to do anything, except maintain the status quo. That's why they have to start talking about social issues, so that they can pretend there is substantive differences between the two parties.
10:21 AM on 02/13/2012
do you really expect rationality from GOP presidential candidates?
photo
BBackSoon
Hello, I must be going.
02:16 PM on 02/13/2012
I for one do not.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
misskat
i'm frightened by those who can't see it
10:19 AM on 02/13/2012
I'm sorry, but don't you think that the GOTP has lowered the bar so much that even a snake would have to climb over?
You are asking for a small dose of realism from those who aren't dealing with reality.
Excluding Ron Paul (because the GOP has chosen to do that) the three remaining candidates have denied evolution and global warming. Santorum has denounced scientists and called them immoral. It's my understanding that if Mitt wins the presidency his church believes that Jesus will appear in Missouri.
And Newt thinks he can have a contest to get people to the moon.
And you want realism?
10:10 AM on 02/13/2012
Let's make it a little simpler shall we. We are a market based economy, therefore we need investors and paying customers. In fact, if the investors want to make a profit, we need more paying customers. What's more if we want to maximize US jobs, we want the maximum number of US investors and the maximum number of US paying customers. After all creating jobs is very different than making profits.

BTW: I'm not sure how you extrapolated the U6 to get 167 million jobs but it should be remembered that 10,000 boomers a day are reaching 65 and according to AARP 7000 a day are retiring and will for the next 19 years. So the issue is more getting from point A to point B rather short or long term jobs.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
09:33 AM on 02/13/2012
What we need is a serious rethink on free trade as it has wound up being ruinously expensive in both fiscal and social consequences. China has a "you sell it here, you make it here" policy which appears to be working very nicely--for them. Whatever you may think of China, and I think socially and politically it is a pariah among nations, it has a viable working model when it comes to trade.

How many people could we put back to work at decent wages if all that could be brought into the country were the raw materials as needed to make every single thing we use right here in America? How many jobs would we repatriate if everything had to be serviced here--no call centers in Manilla, no tech centers in Dehli?
09:52 AM on 02/13/2012
lrobb how very progressive of you. The goal of course is to blend just the right mix of conservative and progressive polices to create an economic engine, to enable Americans the ability to raise families again.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
10:23 AM on 02/13/2012
Dear me--certainly not progressive. Liberals, when they say what I have above are "progressive." I am a Conservative. When we say the same thing we are called "populist."

By the way, most rank and file members of the Tea Party agree with this proposal. It isn't my idea. Surprise!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
A level Head
10:00 AM on 02/13/2012
and where will we put those smoke stacks of production ??? Ever try to site a production facility ??? ----- It is a many faceted problem
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Robert SF
09:28 AM on 02/13/2012
"Let's zero in on how to get new more new businesses started."
===

Unfortunately, that's a non-starter. Where would customers for those new businesses come from? The problem is there is no demand. That's why businesses aren't hiring. The stores are empty right now; opening more stores won't help. Supply-side economics doesn't work.
08:54 AM on 02/13/2012
"The economy grew, but many companies can thrive with fewer workers, and they don't necessarily need for the workers to be here in the United States. This is a seismic economic shift. It's a challenge that will be with us for decades."

The dirty little secret is that automation and artificial intelligence will reduce the need for more and more jobs, until there is virtually no need for any human jobs.

Then what?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lrobb
Southern Rational
09:55 AM on 02/13/2012
When something can no longer go on it stops. Simplistic but true. At some point we will have "clevered" ourselves into an economic corner.

We will be able to make our goods and do our services with a miniscule number of employees thus insuring very few are able to purchase those goods and services. Fewer and fewer children will be born because families can no longer afford them. Ergo fewer and fewer employees will be required to make fewer and fewer goods.

It all cycles downward. At some point the powers that be will realize productivity isn't everything, and maybe we will understand that slippery slope we started down when the fax machine replaced the bike messenger and the postman.
10:35 AM on 02/13/2012
The issue is not whether humans or robots are needed to have jobs but rather how that productivity gain is recycled and spread out through the economy. To actually enable us to raise families and preserve the species. Royalty payments seem to be a good place to start since much of our tech\medical etc advances are actually due to government investment. And therefore the American people deserve an ROI.