Quién Es Mas Macho?

"I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did." - John McCain in his remarks about the G.I. Bill

Barack Obama was born in 1962. He would have been old enough to enlist in the military in 1980. By his third year, he would have been primed to invade -- that's right -- Grenada. And had he been among the few who participated in that crazy weekend, it probably would have been his sole combat experience. Then what would the Straight Talker have said? "I will not accept lectures from someone who fought (insert smirk) in Grenada"?

When John McCain engages in the kind of macho posturing he employed over the GI Bill, it not only insults Obama, it also insults the several hundred million citizens who have not served in the American military. And it's particularly absurd given the proliferation of squawking chicken hawks in his own party, many of whom were able-bodied during the Vietnam era, and yet did not see fit to serve in uniform because, to quote Dick Cheney on the subject, they "had other priorities."

On a positive note, I suppose this means Senator McCain won't be accepting lectures from Dick Cheney either. But this begs another question: Will he have to listen to guys who served in the Texas Air National Guard (when they felt like it), or just campaign with them?

Comments

[NickfromCali]

Lets say that Obama WAS in the military at the time of Grenada invasion. Chances are maybe 1 in 25 at best that he would have participated...

[Bambaya]

Awesome!!! I love it!!!

[PhDiva]

Seth. Good for you for correcting your title. I noticed it was a bit out of wack before, and I am glad you were willing to change it so it was written properly. Bravo.

[dartagnan]

""I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did."

Ummm, so what do you have to say about Jim Webb, senator?

[DebLee]

HuffPost's Pick

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder does not go away. This man has lived through the horrors of being a POW, in solitary confinement for years, physically restrained, psychologically damaged and his scars remain, both physical and psychological.

How can McCain possess good judgment regarding serious issues such as the Iraq war? His temper is a direct indicator that he is still affected by the trauma he sustained during the Vietnam war.

His judgment regarding the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the war on terror and the Iran threat has to be tainted. How can a man who lived through the trauma for a war gone bad and lost with an exclamation point, as the horrendous airlifts out of a fallen Saigon took place, not hope for a different outcome in Iraq?

How can he tour the war-torn ruins of Iraq and not be affected psychologically?

More importantly how can he clearly lead us in regard to this situation? This is the perfect illustration of the need for civilian leadership.

The chronic physical signs of PTSD include hyperarousal, including sleep problems, trouble concentrating, irritability, anger, poor concentration, blackouts or difficulty remembering things, increased tendency and reaction to being startled, and hypervigilance to threat.

Does any of this sound familiar? Does any of this sound like John McCain? Through no fault of his own, he simply isn't fit to lead. Buyer beware . . . . .

[DebLee]

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder does not go away. This man has lived through the horrors of being a POW, in solitary confinement for years, physically restrained, psychologically damaged and his scars remain, both physical and psychological. How can he possess good judgment regarding serious issues such as the Iraq war? His temper is a direct indicator that he is still affected by the trauma he sustained during the Vietnam war.

His judgment regarding the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the war on terror and the Iran threat has to be tainted. How can a man who lived through this trauma all for a war gone bad and lost with an exclamation point, as the horrendous airlifts out of a fallen Saigon took place, not hope for a different outcome in Iraq?

How can he tour the war-torn ruins of Iraq and not be affected psychologically?

More importantly how can he clearly lead us in regard to this situation?

There is a reason we chose a civilian president. This is the perfect illustration of why.

The chronic physical signs of PTSD include hyperarousal, including sleep problems, trouble concentrating, irritability, anger, poor concentration, blackouts or difficulty remembering things, increased tendency and reaction to being startled, and hypervigilance to threat.

Does any of this sound familiar? Does any of this sound like John McCain? Through no fault of his own, he simply isn't fit to lead. Buyer beware . . . . .

[Alethea]

Hence why he was never promoted to Admiral like his father and grandfather were...

When tortured POW's came back from Vietnam they were thanked for their service and quietly shuffled out the door for exactly the reasons you mentioned. So if the military viewed them as time bombs that they couldn't afford to have go off at the wrong time, then why should we behave differently?

Again, not his fault. But fact nonetheless.

[frankwopc]

Gee, and I thought we called it a "coup" or a "military dictatorship" (Argentina, Burma/Myanmar, etc.) when the military and the veterans refused to listen to civilians. It is one thing to honor and respect those who served, and more especially those who chose to serve, as opposed to those who were routinely drafted (in the pre-Bush/C­haney/Ging­rich/Gramm­/Rove days); it is quite another to denigrate, even by extension, current members of the U.S. government simply for being civilians -- especially in a country where we make so much of a person's right to make one's own choices in life (including one's career, and form of community service). We are, after all, supposed to have a civilian government, and government and military alike swear an oath of allegiance to the Constitution, not the uniform, and not the president.

[WAstateliberal]

Agreed. Blanket hero worship of the military is a threat to democracy. It also does no good for the men and women in uniform. They need criticism, just like every other profession in our society, in order to remain the best they can be.

[CornellRedneck]

If you haven't worn the uniform you have no right to comment on matters pertaining to the military and our soldiery. Our DI's used to refer to "stinky ass civilians" as the lowest form of life. I used to think they were downright wrong in their scatalogical description. Observing progressives today I have changed my mind.

Shaddup, Obama!

[FlyingDutchman]

Oh, please Mr. Military Guy! Obama's trying to give vets a fair shake and you tell him to shaddup. I guess FDR shoulda kept quiet too, huh?


Viet era vet for Obama--I guess that gives me the right to comment on matters military! Har!

[cindyw]

Taking your theory to its logical conclusion, since a major component of our recent foreign policy has been the use of military force or the threat of military force, and considering your belief that civilians have no right to weigh in on military matters, you appear to be advocating for a military dictatorship. This is still America.

[proudloudlib]

I'm having trouble reconciling your name to your post. Not the "Redneck" part, that fits perfectly. But the " Cornell" part? Do they teach American History there? Our Constitution, the "Supreme Law of the Land" specifically makes a "stinky ass civilian," also known as U.S. President, the Commander-in-Chief of our military forces. (Article II, Section2.1. -- the commentary in a high school government textbook (Prentice Hall) says: The President, a civilian, heads the nation's armed forces, a key element in the Constitution's insistence of CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY.) Of course, the founding fathers never envisioned a George W. Bush, or they might have rethought that part.

[arvay]

Sorry, little boy Rambo, but the US Constitution, which outranks your DI, guarantees me and every other citizen the right to express whatever opinion we have about the military or any other damn thing we wish. Especially the military, expressly under civilian control. Any attempt to make it otherwise is treason and sedition, pass that along to the dimwit fascist minority in the armed services. They are a disgrace to the uniform.

[surfcitysteven]

So much for "Honor" cornellhick. You hate the people of the country you are supposed to be fighting for? Your DI was in it for the blood I guess and was probably dissappointed he didn't see any. You wasted your service then if you actually did serve. I get the feeling that ,given your thoughts on the subject at hand, you support McCain on his opposition for the new GI bill and that you are what I call a "cyber-liar". One who goes online and states his brave service, but never did. Plenty of your kind, lurking trolls.

[brutus948]

didn't maccain spend the whole war in prison? And basically said whatever to stay alive?

[booker52]

McCain says he won'r surrender. Who says he will have a chance to?? Who says he will be President??? Iraq isn't our country. Do we all remember this? Bush lied us into this war. McCain should remember this or is he so old that he cannot or won't. This war that McCain proud is of belongs to another country, not us. so winning really buys us nothing except more death. All we need as a country is an exit out of there.

[apoyo]

Surrender to whom? If Obama wants to go after AlQueda then who is left to surrender to?
This is a simplistic argument of McCain's. Another slogan.

[WAstateliberal]

Exactly. Surrender to a puppet government that is ostensibly on our side? Predictably, the MSM has failed to explore the bizarre nature of this phraseology. Surrender implies an opposing government. Surrender to a bunch of suicide bombers in a crowded market? Who does he think Obama is going to "surrender" to? And what makes him think "surrender" didn't occur years ago, when Bush spent several months believing the war was over when it wasn't, and Iraq Al-Qaeda took hold?

[GunnyJ]

This is why final military decisions come from civilians. Military people tend to get too motivated sometimes. McCain's return fire to Obama came from an old man without much of a platform. The only thing that cannot be taken from McCain is his military service....

[HarryTheHat]

It's a strange argument to make. 'I won't accept a differing viewpoint on a military matter from someone who has not served in the military.'

Does this mean McCain shouldn't be allowed to sponsor bills to become law because - unlike Obama - he has no legal training? Does it mean he shouldn't discuss the economy because he's not an economist? (Actually, having seen Ron Paul tie him in knots on the subject, that's probably sterling advice.)

Will he refuse advice on NASA from everyone except astronauts? Will he only discuss prisons with people who've actually been convicted and incarcerated?

The implicit - and none too subtle - undertone to his remark is that someone who hasn't served in the military is somehow less of a patriot than someone who (for example) has served and bettered their country by working in hospitals, drug rehabilitation programs, action on poverty etc etc etc.

You can only be a real American if you've bombed someone? Really?

McCain might also care to note that this kind of posturing, for whatever reason, doesn't really play too well with the electorate. Bush Snr (WW2 vet) lost to Clinton and his sick note. John Kerry (Vietnam vet) lost to Bush Jnr and his champagne-and-coke national service record.

[dwmulenex]

Just being older--a lot older--is not a winning card for McCain. He is not making himself a complex and wiser individual than his younger rival, but more and more a two dimensional simpleton, who, when called to account, tries to play the age card without any of Reagan's natural sense of humor. McCain-Gramm on housing foreclosures? The fox in the henhouse. Lobbyists at large? More of 'em in the McCain camp than on K Street. On Iraq? I have no plan, but I will never surrender. We will die until we win.." Tax and budget? "Tax cuts are more important than balancing the budget." Health Care? The generous private sector will serve your needs if we can only let each of you negotiate individually with billion dollar comapanies. Cuba? We will crush our enemy, which has as much in total foreign reserves as we spend every ten days in Iraq. Iran? Who knows Barbara Ann better than Mac? And now the vets? Letting them go to college will cut our retention rates by 16 percent, and where will I get the armed bodies to fight my endless wars? Not a man of honor, but a two-faced political paper cutout with the smirking face of Gorge W. Bush on the other side. Got a match?

[dartagnan]

Excellent post.

[WAstateliberal]

Classic. This should be HuffPo's pick (in addition to the fine post above).

[Opsimath44]

John McQueeg says that Barack needs to get back over to Iraq to see what's really going on.

Well, for OIF 2004-2007, I helped set up quite a few CODEL visits, and I can tell you: those folks who fly across the big pond to "see for themselves" what's really going on, they only see what we wanted them to see.

Ever notice how we're losing 30-50 soldiers a month, and yet the congresscritters never hear the sound of gunshot? Never see an IED explosion? That's because they are safely in the rear with the gear. They're nowhere near the action.

In fact, CODEL visits are a huge strain on the troops. We have to rearrange schedules, come up with additional security, and take troops off of real missions to escort and babysit the congress folks.

The fact that McQueeg doesn't understand this really makes my head hurt. Is he going downhill fast, or was he never all that high speed in the first place?

[BLinCincinnati]

I wonder if John McCain wants to take Obama to the market place he visited last time. I can hear him now "See, look at all the improvements. Just last month you needed 100 armed soldiers, 6 apache helos, and 4 humvees to get through here, now we can do it with just 50 men and 4 helos!"

[dartagnan]

John McQueeg --- LOL! That's good, although the allusion will be lost on most readers.

I wonder if John McQueeq rolls a couple of steel balls in his hand to calm himself down in times of stress.

[Opsimath44]

I also happened to work for the Corps of Engineers during the Katrina recovery efforts, and McCain said that if he was Prez, he would have landed Air Force One as close as he could to see for himself what was going on and to demonstrate his support. Well, as a guy whose boots were on the ground, again I say: thanks but no thanks. We had our hands full getting the power grid back up, doing quick-fixes on the levies, and assessing the structural integrity of the remaining buildings. Every time some big wig with an over-inflated sense of self-importance came to town, we had to stop the real world to take care of them.

One would think that a guy with his experience would realize this. But I guess that just shows how insulated from reality he is.

I voted for McCain in 2000. I don't recognize that guy this year. His comments yesterday in Denver, that he "will never, ever surrender in Iraq," scared me nearly to death. What a strawman! No one's asking for surrender. We're asking our government and leadership to realize that this mission is over. Big, huge difference. That squinty-eyed look he had when he said it speaks louder than any words. Quite frankly, he's lost it.

[WAstateliberal]

These are my thoughts too with regard to his bearings. Doesn't it seem like he is just confused and tepid? Like he is trying to navigate a landscape he has never explored before? He seems so afraid of the "base" (what a stupid word. Radical right wing christians are not the true Republican "base." They are the fringe), that he doesn't quite know what to say. And it is so obvious. He, more than any candidate I can recall, seems unable to think before speaking. Surrender in Iraq? I'll bet he wishes he didn't say that. It was an off the cuff remark that he threw out because he was mad. Just another in a long list of things he has said without thinking about it.