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Shai Baitel

Shai Baitel

Posted: August 23, 2010 09:18 AM

A Tale of Two Mosques

What's Your Reaction:

Some law schools ask aspiring lawyers to ponder not only if a good lawyer can be a good person but also, in the realm of legal ethics, if a legally 'kosher' action is necessarily a good or proper one. The answer is no. Is it prerequisite to be a lawyer to agree that the initiators of Park 51 project -- the Mosque at Ground Zero, the Muslim 92nd Y several blocks away from Ground Zero, the Interfaith Center, the Victory Mosque, Cordoba House, or however you want to call it -- have every right to build it? The answer is no. Are we all for freedom of religion? The answer is yes -- President Obama is for it as well, as we learned. And is an appeal to common sense to not exercise a right, say, to build a project, a denial of that very right? No. (If you disagree there is no point in reading further.)

Before offering some points of observation on Park 51, a look at another controversial mosque constructions might be instructive: There was the saga, spanning from 1997 until 2003, surrounding the construction of a mosque opposite the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth, where Christians believe the Angel Gabriel foretold the birth of Jesus. In a dispute that was not simply religious but also about political influence as well as real estate problem, the city's Muslim community had proposed a mosque in honor of a dignitary believed to have been the nephew of Saladin, who had defeated the Crusaders in the 12th century and whose tomb is located at the site.

The location was a square which Christians had wanted to turn into a promenade leading to the Basilica, for tourists visiting Israel for the Millennium. The promenade project had been blocked by Muslim protesters who camped out on the site. The Israeli government stepped in and gave the Muslim about one-third of the square, prompting Christian protest as they deemed the project so close to the Basilica as to be disrespectful. Despite these objections, Muslims then laid a symbolic cornerstone for a $2 million, two story mosque that could have accommodated 1,000 worshippers.

After government panels, Pope John Paul II, U.S. President George W. Bush, and Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had weighed in an Israeli court ordered the demolition of the foundations of the mosque, which had, in the end, remained unauthorized. However outrageous this decision will have seemed to the mosque's proponents, Israel upheld its policy of respecting the holy sites of all religions and assured the rights of Christians who consider the Basilica a sacred place. The tomb was renovated and incorporated into a public square. It seems fair to assume that had the project's initiator's done their homework, had they listened, had they requested broad input, had they been the sensitive bridge-builders, they would have been able to better analyze the situation. And it turns out that a) freedom of religion was not touched, b) proximity matters, and c) effective damage control is possible before facts are established on the ground.

As with the case in Nazareth where, in the sympathetic reading of the events, Muslims did not pay attention to the sensitivities of Christians, it is fair to assume that had the Park 51 project's initiators prepared, had they listened, had they requested broad input, had they been the sensitive bridge-builders, they would not have been caught off-guard by the storm of protest. Their voice has been either missing or was unnecessarily defiant and combative. If these comments are an indicator for their ability to communicate a positive message and actually build bridges and explain their vision for Park 51 then they - and we all -- will be in for a bumpy ride. The Park 51 initiators as well as leaders of the American Muslim community in New York and beyond could most easily contribute to the debate by positively explaining if and why the project's proximity to Ground Zero matters -- or does not matter for building bridges.

It is a sad fact that they got themselves into that hot water by terribly misunderstanding and misreading the environment -- physically and socially -- in which they plan to establish their project. The anger, grief, and agony caused by the failure of the Park 51 initiators to do their homework is regrettable. They failed to understand that the attacks of 9/11, the loss of life in Shanksville, Arlington, and New York, profoundly changed the lives of everybody and that the reverberations can be felt every day. Have you been at an airport lately? How could the Park 51 initiators miss that? How could they not think there would be opposition? And how can they believe that it will contribute to calm the debate and have a more rational conversation in which their vision is heard when they charge that opposition to their project is, obviously incorrigibly and invariably, "hate of Muslims." One would have thought that cogent arguments could be made for both sides.

There is obviously no desire for de-escalation. Unfortunately, it is safe to assume that the most vociferous opponents will take advantage on this tone-deaf and irresponsible behavior. Muslims in America are the innocent victims of this debate where emotional charges fly. Is there any hope that the debate will not stir hatred against Muslims? One is almost resigned to shake the head in disbelief. The last available FBI Hate Crimes Statistics, of 2008, lists anti-Islamic crimes at 7.7 percent of the 1,606 hate crime offenses motivated by religious bias. Anti-Jewish crimes registered at 65.7 percent, anti-Catholic crimes at 4.7 percent, and anti-Protestant crimes at 3.7 percent. Where will we be when the statistics for 2010 are being published?

Having a right and doing the right thing, for one's goals and one's community, might be two different things. What worked in Nazareth -- de-escalation through not going forward and making compromises -- still has the chance to work with Park 51.

 
 
 
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03:29 PM on 08/24/2010
I wonder, if the proposed site was around the corner, i.e., 3 blocks away, would that be outside the zone of sensitivity. And what other used are inappropriate in the zone of sensitivity. I'm going to take a risk here, and guess that an S&M club would be insensitive.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
03:47 PM on 08/24/2010
It wouldn't be. Check this out.

http://www.silive.com/eastshore/index.ssf/2010/07/the_complete_statement_from_th.html
http://www.silive.com/eastshore/index.ssf/2010/06/proposed_midland_beach_mosque.html

A group tries to build a mosque in Staten Island, and the same kind of nonsense comes up, minus the "hallowed ground" silliness. Staten Island is quite a distance from the WTC. Yet, the silliness brought up by the opposition eventually killed the project. Point blank, the people claiming that they'd have no problem with Park51 if it were built elsewhere are probably lying.
03:22 PM on 08/24/2010
From the article, it appears the Christians wom and the Moslems lost. They did not get to build the mosque.

Maybe I'm dense, but why would the Moslems in NYC look to the Nazareth situation as a model to follow.
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lawrence of america
05:38 PM on 08/24/2010
then your looking at it wrong, from what I see is rationality won, and irrationality lost in the nazareth situation.
02:39 PM on 08/24/2010
What is so interesting about this article on a previous mosque controversy in Nazarith is that the haters of Israel are simply posting libelous and untrue venom at Israel and not even addressing the topic of the article. But then again, that's usually what you get here. If there was a piece about how a cure for cancer was found in a Tel Aviv hospital, there would be 50 posts defaming the people and government of Israel. When you enter the hate zone, you lose all sense of reason.
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Pharcee
No War With Iran
03:00 PM on 08/24/2010
JerryLevy, I have to agree with you 100%. I said in a previous post. A people, or a religion will always be judged on the few worst of that group. If Muslims do good, in comes the 9/11 topic. If Israel does good, in comes the settlement and oppression of Palestinian people. Dont get me wrong, these are very valid arguments when discussing fundamentalism, but just like al queada doesnt represent all of Islam, I dont feel the radicals in Israel represent all of Judaism.
05:22 PM on 08/24/2010
Thanks Pharcee, I am glad that when the "radicals in Israel" lob 3000 unprovoked rockets into Gaza, send hypnotized 14 year old suicide terrorists into restaurants, buses, and mosques on the West Bank to kill as many innocents as possible, and when they use their own people as human shields you don't see them as "representing all of Judaism."
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
03:18 PM on 08/24/2010
I'd love to see how the two are even comparable. It was a red herring in multiple ways.
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Pharcee
No War With Iran
03:28 PM on 08/24/2010
Well, Look at 9/11 - all of Islam is being blamed. Look at the occupation - it has stoked a rise to anti-semitism, hence, Jews are being blamed.

I was merely pointing out that when one group is looked at in a bad way, those same people looking at it in that way will never see any good from it.
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Pharcee
No War With Iran
02:11 PM on 08/24/2010
Enough is enough! Lets just call it what it is; we dont want Muslims here!!! Thats the bottom line. Muslims are going to be hated and persecuted for a very long time because of the few that cant tell the diiference between a metaphor and a commandment. And yes, this is just getting started. The hate will last for a long time. Just look at the Jews. They have been persecuted for thousands of years, now its yime for the Muslims. Doesnt matter how many times we say: "Its not a Mosque," Its not at ground zero," Imam Rauf is a Sufi," Jews, Christians, and some 9-11 families back it."

When people dont want to hear the truth, they wont. Its that simple. This is going to set a precedent that is going to effect EVERYONE.

Peace be with you all inshALLAH.
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GZLives
05:28 PM on 08/24/2010
I'd bet if the building wasn't a 100 plus million dollar 15 story structure and was more low rise and low key a lot of the heat would never have been generated.
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Muslimhumanist
Liberty for the wolves is death for the lambs
02:14 PM on 08/25/2010
So I wonder--is this really about Muslims getting "too uppity?"

Where have we heard this before?

Peace.....
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01:57 PM on 08/24/2010
"After government panels, Pope John Paul II, U.S. President George W. Bush, and Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon had weighed in an Israeli court ordered the demolition of the foundations of the mosque"

where are the palestinians as judges upon themselves within all this?

in fact today the same Israeli courts and the Israeli government with US financial backing continue to act as Lords of the Palestinian physical and spiritual landscape: they are building a museum of tolerance over an ancient muslim cemetery against the protest of the local population and heirs to the cemetery
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01:52 PM on 08/24/2010
a fail by paragraph two

in Nazareth all are palestinian and nothing palestinian was involved. It was between two religions: christianity and Islam; there is the church and we want to build a mosque

In new York, if ground zero is a church then it is also a jewish temple and a mosque and a fetish and an idol and a sacred ground for every religion of every person who died there on the day of the attack. It is an american place.

christianity is not islam and islam is not christianity, you cannot be both

buy american can be muslim and muslim can be american

to say the mosque should not be built by the church so as not to affront its worshipers, that can be valid

but to say the mosque should not be built by the american memorial implies that islam is antithesis to it when it is not; that muslims did not die there on that day and were victims when they were; that on one side there is americans of every stripe and on another the muslims

in nazareth muslims and christians, all palestinians
in new york, muslims and everybody else, mostly american

?
01:38 PM on 08/24/2010
Thank you Mr, Baitel, for a coherent and insightful analysis of the situation. Fanned.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
01:06 PM on 08/24/2010
"And is an appeal to common sense to not exercise a right, say, to build a project, a denial of that very right? No."

Have you been able to present an argument as to why Park51 is a bad idea for any reason other than it is associated with Islam? No. Honestly, what I find funny about this, and more telling about a lot of the people involved, is that there is a battle over EVERY proposed new construction in NYC. You can practically count on it and many are based on very solid reasons. Yet, for Park51, the only reason that can be given is that it's a mosque that is somehow insulting to others?

As a local myself, what I find insulting is the hysteria and cynical manipulation of others surrounding an entirely harmless project that will bring in needed facilities to the area. Can you tell me where the closest public pool or gym is in the financial district? No, you won't be able to. Want to know why? Because there isn't one.

Furthermore, your Nazareth Mosque argument is a red herring. Park51 won't be blocking anyone one from anything, nor did anyone care about this building until they discovered that Muslims were going to do something with it. Have you ever even walked down this street?
08:40 AM on 08/25/2010
great blog Eris23 . . .
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patches12
11:33 AM on 08/24/2010
Sir .. YOU ARE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR... THANK YOU FOR YOUR SENSIBILITY, SENSE OF PROPRIETY AND MOST OF ALL - RESPECT FOR THOSE AMERICANS WHO, FOR REASONS NOBLE AND NOT SO NOBLE, ARE AGAINST THE MOSQUE

You've won my respect...if the Muslim community just came out and said something like..."we've reconsidered the mosque site. We want to be sensitive to the feelings of the families of those killed in on 9/11 and we want to heal the wounds of 9/11 and so, it will be built at another site"

In that one gesture of humility and and sensitivity, the Muslim community would be embraced and respected enormously by millions of Americans!!!
03:42 PM on 08/24/2010
true it is not like mosques are being protests in Staten Island and Tennessee and Kentucky and Wisconsin and Califonia. Ok it is, but no doubt there are good reasons in every case as to why it is wrong for muslims to build or expand mosques and they should accept that there are just places they are not wanted because of their religion and move when asked.

Although oddly, the neighborhood in which they are building the community center turns out not to be one of the places they are not wanted by their neighbors.
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lawrence of america
06:14 PM on 08/24/2010
No they wouldn't. I know you feel that way and i appreciate it. But this is deeper. Muslim leaders since 9-11 came out and condemned the attacks, and still daily we hear pundits and politicians sayin " where are the moderate voices".
really no offense, but Muslim-Americans are Americans, we can build where we buy and legally allowed to. We didn't fly planes into the towers some nihilistic whack-jobs did. ( BTW I could beat up an old lady and say it was in the name of billy bob thorton..it wouldn't make it so)
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patches12
09:43 PM on 08/24/2010
I understand your concerns. Of course there are a small percentage of Americans who would not see the movement of the mosque as I described above.. but you seem to be, by denying my assertion reacting the very same way.... that is.. judging the majority by the actions of the minority. The vast majority of Americans are very fair mined and tolerant.. they only ask that the street of respect run both ways
10:53 AM on 08/24/2010
so what does building a mosque in Nazareth have to do with building a cultural center in NY? your comparison is not valid . . . . stop comparing the United Sttes with Israel . . .we have a written constitution, a Bill of Rights and America was founded on the grounds of religious freedom . . . . there is no comparison to the zionist agenda . . .
01:26 PM on 08/24/2010
Here is a beautiful example of pure fabrication motivated by unadulturated hate. And of course we all know, when you enter the hate zone, you no longer have the ability to reason.
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
10:23 AM on 08/24/2010
In other news, it was reported on Monday that the government that used the 'sensibilities' argument to keep the Nazareth mosque from being built ordered the destruction of two other Mosques, both serving Muslim communities, both of which had no 'sensibilities' questions to say they shouldn't have been built where they were.
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
09:33 AM on 08/24/2010
That the Muslims behind the 51 Park project HAD engaged in lots of outreach, including having a longstanding relationship with a large group of 9/11 families is what is being lost in the screaming coming from the American right-wing.
10:46 AM on 08/24/2010
thank you Richard Pearce
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12:31 PM on 08/24/2010
Exactly
08:31 AM on 08/24/2010
This 'protest' is not about Cordoba House at all, it's just another excuse for bashing Muslims for rightwing opportunists in an election year. Ignoring that is holding one's eyes shut.
This is not Jerusalem. In America Constitutional rights supercede threats of violence. That's what it means to live in "the land of the free, home of the brave."
07:41 PM on 08/23/2010
Gosh, Mr. Baitel, you mean that reasonable people can actually discuss things and work them out? But, won't that disappoint all the people screaming and hurling epithets? Seriously, this is indeed a wonderful example of people considering the viewpoints of others and working out lots of things in a mutually satisfying way. This could be done in my city, too, if we lowered the voices, stopped assuming that everyone is a bigot, and talked about solutions. Of course, Constitutional rights are important, and no one is even attempting to deny anyone else's rights. But, if the construction of the Mosque is really about tolerance and understanding and reconciliation, then perhaps it would be wise to consider all the positions before announcing construction. Thanks for the article!
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
09:41 AM on 08/24/2010
You mean like maybe the people behind the project should have reached out to a large group of 9/11 families, and gained their support?

Oh, wait, they did that.

Or maybe they should have reached out and talked to the last group to build a religiously themed community center in Manhattan?

Oh, wait, they did that.

Or maybe they should have found out from the city what landmarks had to be preserved before they drew up their plans?

Oh, wait, that is what they were in the last stages of doing when this 'controversy' was whipped up by some people with a history of hating all Muslims, and those with a history of exploiting issues that shoulld have been minor for crass political reasons.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
01:22 PM on 08/24/2010
This is why all of this is so silly. There is no reason to "respect" the wishes of others who will hate you regardless. There is nothing reasonable about asking Park51 to move, other than the fact that some don't particularly like it because it's attached to Islam. Backing down to hate and intolerance merely emboldens it. They already had a successful test run with this nonsense in Staten Island from last May through July, where the exact same ugliness and arguments were used. Now, the opposition is supposedly because this is too close to "hallowed ground," even though the same nonsense went down in Staten Island which is nowhere near it? The local church in Staten Island that was going to be selling the land to the organization which wanted to build the mosque eventually backed out of the deal due to the hate and pressure. If it happens again, it's a sad day for New York.
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propitiousmoment
the journey is the destination....
07:32 PM on 08/23/2010
It doesn't matter what YOU want to call it, the people to whom it belongs are calling it Cordoba House. I haven't even gotten to the rest of your article yet and I can see where you are going. You're right, I disagree, but I 'm going to go back and finish it so I can see if you have yet come up with a rational foundation for your thesis. I'm guessing you have not.
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propitiousmoment
the journey is the destination....
07:56 PM on 08/23/2010
Okay, I've read it and I think the whole "right but not wise" argument is founded on the same logic as the ones used against de-segregating the military and underlying DADT - i.e,. it's not a good idea because the myopic, the bigoted, the xenophobic, the haters might cause trouble if you allow "those" people to live/work/worship in close proximity to "us." And that is just wrong. Instead of calling for the imam to explain himself and thereby open himself and his congregation up to yet more distortions in the present circus of public discourse, you should be taking the trouble to learn and understand what is already in the record about what he stands for. For another thing, this group has owned the land for years, long before 9-11, and it is not anywhere near GZ by the standards of anyone except people who hate all muslims and have created the outcry about mosques *anywhere* they are proposed in the US. If they were so worried about the "sanctity" of ground zero they would be demonstrating against strip clubs and whatever other business are in even closer proximity to it than this effort to peacefully coexist. The only proper outcome for this whole brouhaha is for the mosque to be built, exactly as planned, and exactly where it is at. Anything else is a win for the terrorists.
05:44 AM on 08/24/2010
The proposed site is inside the "casualty radius". That's a technical term for describing the size of an explosion. It IS Ground Zero.